Gardaí struggling to pay bills - AGSI

K-9

HellFireClub wrote: »

And as for the subject matter of this particular thread, people moaning because either they had lifestyle issues, or had made poor investment choices or both, I don't see why I sholud have been burdened by those issues to any extent when I was an private sector employer and I don't see why a public sector employer should be listening to those issues now either.

It's the Garda representative body representing Guards, it's what they do, they picked a poor case. A better report is here:

Snow 'kept gardaí from rape victim' | BreakingNews.ie

stoneill

Who cares if it's 1% or 40% or 99% of Gardai cant pay bills.
That's their own fault. You live within your means.
If you can't afford it then don't buy it.
Did they join the force for the money or for the service?
If it was for the money then they are not the right people for the job.

Offy

Bosco boy wrote: »

What do you do yourself for a living?

Engineer and I dont get €40k! Why should uneducated AGS bottom level staff get such a high salary???

Eric Cartman

Offy wrote: »

Engineer and I dont get €40k! Why should uneducated AGS bottom level staff get such a high salary???

because getting stabbed isnt part of your job

not that im trying to defend the gards, some of them (DS, CAB, Traffic core) dont deserve a cent

previous user

feelingstressed wrote: »

They might have buy to let properties and struggling to get tenants.
There would be quite a few gardai who are landlords

ScumLords more like it,
Isn't it ironic that the gardai are supposed to be protecting society yet the very social problems that
they'e supposed to be protecting society from they're actually creating with their own blinkered greed by
leasing out these ghettoised rats nests.

Sibylla

I would imagine that's more than the average nurse or teacher is bringing home. 40,000 is a pretty good wage in these times. I think this highlights how problematic out public service is, I doubt people in the private sector would be complaining with that wage. They do a very important job and at times are undervalued but I think they are earning a fair wage.

steddyeddy

I was disgusted to hear some members of AGSI make the case that in order to prevent some officers accepting bribes the wages shouldnt be touched ie dont touch our wages or we will have to resort to crime! If my pay is docked I dont go out threathening to sell industrial secrets or commit fraud! Surely its a gaurds duty to uphold the law and anyone enetering the force should feel a sense of duty?

Derfil

They're earning too much and it's time for another pay cut.

Offy

Hill St Blue wrote: »

Just to clarify something with regards to the 40k figure that everyone is talking about, it takes quite a few years service before any Garda earns anything close to that figure...they all start off somewhere around 24k (although there has been a 20% cut to that also.) I'm not saying that's too high, or too low...just being factual.
Also, do you honestly think that there are no Gardai with Degrees, Masters' or even the odd Phd?! People from all walks of life and levels of education join An Garda Siochana...to generalise by stating that all Gardai just have 'a leaving cert with 6 months in Templemore' is just plain wrong.
I know we all rant and rave on AH (sure that's what it's for, eh?!) but the odd fact or two thrown into the debate can't hurt!

Fair point, I apologise for the generalisation. IMO considering the service we public get I feel €40k is to high for any AGS member that is not senior staff (not sarg. level but chief super or whatever you call them). They do not serve the public with any degree of civility in my experience 75% of the time. They have no interest is doing their job most of the time and give ridiculous excuses expecting that the member of the public will never check things out with a solicitor. The consistently lie to get handy convictions in court. They really are the bottom of the barrel as regards public servents. IMO 25% do give value for money and they do tend to be the more experienced member of AGS. 75% to 25%, time for a pay cut!!!

HellFireClub

delta720 wrote: »

Man you have serious issues, I'm sorry your business went down, but just because you worked hard and it didn't work out, doesn't mean that public servants don't work hard. You honestly can't really believe that all PS workers sit around doing nothing and then go collect massive amounts of money while laughing at people on the dole.

Also there is no policy to just hire PS pensioners into other PS jobs. It's not some sort of club where everyone helps each other out. PS reform is needed, but that doesn't mean that PS workers on the ground don't work hard at whatever they're doing. The very fact that you've had problems with PS with respect to your business shows that its the system that doesn't work not the people at the bottom trying to keep it all ticking over (with regard to civil servants).

Also remember public servants pay their taxes like everyone else so it's their service too, it really shouldn't be an 'us' and 'them' situation as conditions vary massively across the PS, from clerical officers who make just above the minimum wage to some lecturers paid super-salaries of €250,000+.

Also just as a point, I'd like to see you wrestle drunk scumbags out of a fight on a Saturday night and then say Guards are lazy procrastinators!

I have no issues whatsoever and how dare you try to patronise me. I don't need your sympathy, I'm back on my feet again, but not now, or never in the past did I ever pay myself more than 40K a year in salary and the only expenses I had were my phone bill paid for, which I had to vouch for for Revenue purposes.

I had no f*cking automatic allowances, I had no f*cking overtime and I put in more hours in a week more than 2 Gardai would work in a fortnight.

This was what I chose to do and I loved doing it, but I never got to a place in my head where I said I couldn't live very comfortably on 40K a year and I never even paid myself that much in a salary it was always under that amount.

Yet I come on here and see people on 50K and 60K saying that they can't put a crust on the table. Well if that's the case, they either have some kind of undeclared coke problem or else they have yet to make some serious lifestyle adjustments. Or I suspect, the problem is multiple interest only investment properties.

When my business failed, I lost my money, the public didn't get stung for my losses, I had to carry them and carry them I did and I'll be f*cked if any PS worker is going to think that I'm game for more tax because they made a bad punt on property or can't make lifesytle adjustments.

Bosco boy

Offy wrote: »

Engineer and I dont get €40k! Why should uneducated AGS bottom level staff get such a high salary???

I had a degree and many of my collegues before I joined and and with a comment like that I don't believe you passed the leaving cert not alone a third level exam! Stick you head back in the sand!

HellFireClub

Bosco boy wrote: »

I had a degree and many of my collegues before I joined and and with a comment like that I don't believe you passed the leaving cert not alone a third level exam! Stick you head back in the sand!

The next course the commissioner should send you on is one that teaches you how to appreciate being on very good money. It's yourself and your colleagues that have your head in the sand, whinging about being on 50K plus and saying you can't survive on it. Snap out of it to f*ck and stop insulting everyone else who can get by on half that.

Bosco boy

Maybe we could both do a course on how to run a business

delta720

HellFireClub wrote: »

I have no issues whatsoever and how dare you try to patronise me. I don't need your sympathy, I'm back on my feet again, but not now, or never in the past did I ever pay myself more than 40K a year in salary and the only expenses I had were my phone bill paid for, which I had to vouch for for Revenue purposes.

I had no f*cking automatic allowances, I had no f*cking overtime and I put in more hours in a week more than 2 Gardai would work in a fortnight.

This was what I chose to do and I loved doing it, but I never got to a place in my head where I said I couldn't live very comfortably on 40K a year and I never even paid myself that much in a salary it was always under that amount.

Yet I come on here and see people on 50K and 60K saying that they can't put a crust on the table. Well if that's the case, they either have some kind of undeclared coke problem or else they have yet to make some serious lifestyle adjustments. Or I suspect, the problem is multiple interest only investment properties.

When my business failed, I lost my money, the public didn't get stung for my losses, I had to carry them and carry them I did and I'll be f*cked if any PS worker is going to think that I'm game for more tax because they made a bad punt on property or can't make lifesytle adjustments.

Wow well aren't you just the perfect citizen not paying yourself any more than 40K a year. Was that because your business wasn't earning enough or because your moral beliefs are so outstanding?

If you would actually cop on here for one second and snap out of your unhealthy bias you'll see that people who are on 50/60K+ a year arn't complaining about not being able to put food on the table. The most likely situation here is that some new guards, on 24k before tax, taking home around 17k, and paying large rent because being young guards they're most likely stationed in a large city. Then found themselves with higher outputs than their weekly income.

Just because you work hard and pay tax does not entitle you to have higher earnings or standard of living than someone in the public sector. Its strange though that you managed to set up your own business and you still can't understand the difference between all these 'average incomes' and the actual break down which leaves senior members with over twice the wage of junior members who earn very little.

But don't worry man, if you channel all that anger energy into a new business venture I'm sure you'll do great!

Locust

HellFireClub wrote: »

I know several Gardai who have no other qualification than their Leaving Cert. It is fully possible to commence your service as a Garda with a Leaving cert and retire at the end of your career holding the the same qualification.

The last few years of Gardai that were churned out of Templemore graduated with degrees (BA) in 'Policing Studies'
http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=181&Lang=1

HellFireClub

delta720 wrote: »

Wow well aren't you just the perfect citizen not paying yourself any more than 40K a year. Was that because your business wasn't earning enough or because your moral beliefs are so outstanding?

If you would actually cop on here for one second and snap out of your unhealthy bias you'll see that people who are on 50/60K+ a year arn't complaining about not being able to put food on the table. The most likely situation here is that some new guards, on 24k before tax, taking home around 17k, and paying large rent because being young guards they're most likely stationed in a large city. Then found themselves with higher outputs than their weekly income.

Just because you work hard and pay tax does not entitle you to have higher earnings or standard of living than someone in the public sector. Its strange though that you managed to set up your own business and you still can't understand the difference between all these 'average incomes' and the actual break down which leaves senior members with over twice the wage of junior members who earn very little.

But don't worry man, if you channel all that anger energy into a new business venture I'm sure you'll do great!

I never said I deserved to be better paid, in fact I made the opposite point. I had none of the security that comes with a job in the Gardai, I get none of the overtime, oh wait, I'm actually wrong there, I get the overtime all right, I just don't get f*cking paid for it! I don't have any beef with this, I made a choice about my career path and I stand by my choices, because apart from getting caught up in the motherfu*ker of all recessions, I've found what I do to be extremely fulfilling, and even when things go against you, the fight back out of it can be hugely rewarding.

There is no begrudgery here, I'm very happy with where I am, and I'm happy with where I was previously, save for having lost a year or so where I got dragged down into this recession milarkey, but as far as I'm concerned, that's in the past now.

These are the decisions I made with regard to my career and I stand by those decisions for better for worse, I don't mind working a 60 hour week for a base salary in the 30K area and being the one who gets to sort out any and every problem that may arise in my business, because this is what I took on.

But equally, did some folks here join up to the Gardai and somehow think that they were not going to be encountering junkies, killings outside nightclubs at 4 in the morning, mill up's between travellers, husbands battering their wives/partners, all sorts of civil order issues and the likes?!?!?

I've checked out the pay scales here:

http://www.gra.cc/net_reductions_2008_-2011.shtml

And on the surface, the pay is not that bad, and when you throw in a rent allowance of 4,162 Euro a year, which is approximately 346 Euro tax free a month, I could certainly live comfortably on that kind of money, and this is just one allowance I'm referring to here.

Another thing I've an issue of sorts with, is this notion that is emerging on thread that you can be furious at the pay scales, you can basically hate the job on the basis of the renumeration, but yet feel that it is right to stay in it?!?!?!?

If you are not happy where you are working, my advice is try a career change and I don't mean this in a snide way, I just think that this notion where you can put it up to management and throw wobblers in relation to the terms of the job, I think it's unhealthy and short changing yourself.

themadchef

It points out that 120 gardaí did not receive any money in their pay cheques last January because once some of the standing order bills were paid and the extra taxes taken - there was nothing left.

Loads of people are finding it tough. Not all of us have a union to fight for us though. Cant imagine they really think they are going to get a raise. They are just banging their drums to be heard, praying they wont get cut more!

G Ryan once commented oh his fat cat salary and said basically the more you earn, the more you spend, life style changes etc. Either these guards learn to cut their cloth to measure, sell assets, go to MABS or go bankrupt. We all have to live within our means, it's really that simple.

Mr Jinx

themadchef wrote: »

It points out that 120 gardaí did not receive any money in their pay cheques last January because once some of the standing order bills were paid and the extra taxes taken - there was nothing left.

Loads of people are finding it tough. Not all of us have a union to fight for us though. Cant imagine they really think they are going to get a raise. They are just banging their drums to be heard, praying they wont get cut more!

G Ryan once commented oh his fat cat salary and said basically the more you earn, the more you spend, life style changes etc. Either these guards learn to cut their cloth to measure, sell assets, go to MABS or go bankrupt. We all have to live within our means, it's really that simple.

Dont think anyone is looking for a pay rise, just a decent salary for the job that they do. When you factor in a pension levy, income levy, USC etc. a pay packet isnt long shrinking. Dont know why certain people are getting up on their high horses. Yes, were all in the same boat, but there's no reason to jump down someones throat if the question it.

Dudess

Friend of a friend is a guard a few years now (well past entry level) and worried about how he'll support his soon-to-be-born child - I never thought the guards earned a fortune but I'm surprised at that, however he's not a greedy person, and he's living close to work, and renting, and he rarely goes out... so that is one indication to me that maybe there are guards who don't earn a major amount.

HellFireClub

Dudess wrote: »

Friend of a friend is a guard a few years now (well past entry level) and worried about how he'll support his soon-to-be-born child - I never thought the guards earned a fortune but I'm surprised at that, however he's not a greedy person, and he's living close to work, and renting, and he rarely goes out... so that is one indication to me that maybe there are guards who don't earn a major amount.

But sure any couple will have trouble bringing up kids on only one wage. All my mates who have kids, both them have to go out and work because that's what they have to do to pay for the cost of having children.

Dudess

I don't understand why he could feel that strapped for cash - but it does indicate the wage is nothing amazing. His partner may not find a part-time job that easily when she's able for returning to work (she was laid off the last job).

jonsnow

Dudess wrote: »

Friend of a friend is a guard a few years now (well past entry level) and worried about how he'll support his soon-to-be-born child - I never thought the guards earned a fortune but I'm surprised at that, however he's not a greedy person, and he's living close to work, and renting, and he rarely goes out... so that is one indication to me that maybe there are guards who don't earn a major amount.

Well maybe hes just putting on the poor mouth.One things for sure though if he cant support his child theres not much hope for the rest of us.

Bosco boy

HellFireClub wrote: »

But sure any couple will have trouble bringing up kids on only one wage. All my mates who have kids, both them have to go out and work because that's what they have to do to pay for the cost of having children.

You mean some Gardai have kids and partners who may not have a job? Could it be possible that with a standard mortgage taken out in the last 5 years that they are struggling, could it happen to say 120 members, how unbelieveable!

paddy0090

There numbers or wages are going to get cut in the CPA they're just campaigning ahead of the other unions over where the cuts to services and pay should come. Something similar happenned in the run up to the budget with pensions and other areas of spending.

$40k is a good wage and given the pension and other family entitlements they shouldn't have any trouble surviving. That said its a sh*t job and they can't even dish out justice as they'd like anymore so you can't argue they haven't lost an entitlement

HellFireClub

I do genuinely appreciate the very difficult job that they do, but I think the sh*t has truly hit the fan for everyone, it's time for getting on with it and cutting your cloth to suit your measure, and a few Gardai that I know were not to be found standing behind the door only a few short years ago when the opportunity came along for a bit of property investment.

I don't wish anyone ill, but if you make a bad decision then there are consequences that will follow, that's just life...

Dudess

jonsnow wrote: »

Well maybe hes just putting on the poor mouth.

He's not like that. Plus, he's not pushed about being a guard - went into it idealistically and is now disappointed. Same story with many I'd say.

Dinge

Sibylla wrote: »

I would imagine that's more than the average nurse or teacher is bringing home. 40,000 is a pretty good wage in these times. I think this highlights how problematic out public service is, I doubt people in the private sector would be complaining with that wage. They do a very important job and at times are undervalued but I think they are earning a fair wage.

The 40k doesn't include the pension levy though. That was a pay cut under another name but won't show up in the figures because it's not reflected in gross pay. I'm a PS worker and the pension levy that comes out of my wages is more or less the same amount of money as the USC. So if a guard is on 40k, his take home will be less than a private sector worker earning the same.

HellFireClub

Bosco boy wrote: »

You mean some Gardai have kids and partners who may not have a job? Could it be possible that with a standard mortgage taken out in the last 5 years that they are struggling, could it happen to say 120 members, how unbelieveable!

Yeah but the little bit that you're missing out on is that ANYONE in Ireland who is on less than a 60K salary who is supporting a small family/partner and 1/2 children with that single income is struggling at the moment, it isn't just 120 members of the GRA who are finding things very difficult, everyone else is too and they just have to get on with it... I know more than one couple managing to make ends meet on a single salary of less than 40K with a child. They are not living the high life by any means but they can make ends meet and pay their bills and put food on the table. It's a fact of life that any couple in Ireland at the moment with a single income structure like that are under pressure, it isn't just 120 GRA members.

The credit Union did a survey the other day that found that many tens of thousands of people have no money left at the end of the month after paying bills and nearly as many again couldn't pay their bills at all due to income problems. It's no way to be living, I'm as annoyed as anyone else that people are in this situation and things like utilities EAT into incomes here more than in other countries and everything is still way overpriced, but hardship in Ireland now is by no means restricted to 120 Gardai.

paddy0090

Hang on does the 40k include his 50% pension. I thought it said that 40k was the take home pay. Don't care about the pension levy, private sector has had benfits taxed since the days of McCreevy, PS got away with this because of the weasel ahern. Good to see you catching up!

Dudess

paddy0090 wrote: »

That said its a sh*t job and they can't even dish out justice as they'd like anymore so you can't argue they haven't lost an entitlement

I know... such a deprivation not being able to dole out beatings...