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Gardaí want 'mollycoddled' Reserve abolished

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    #92
    Living in Ireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Living in Ireland


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Yea, kinda agree but with the breakdown in our economic fortunes (the banking crisis) the stats speck for themselves, crime is on the rise, so you are faced with the situation, you have no money to increase health or security personal but crime overall and the deterioration in people's health are on the increase. We as a country are broke... We need to fix the banking problem but keep the country from detereating in the area of crime and health any further... I know people have their opinions regarding burning the bond holders etc etc but the new government are elected by the people and their decision on what they do has to be respected. All I can say is thank God for community spirit cause with the Red Cross and the Garda Reserve personal and all those other organisations out there helping out, we might just have been in a worse situation than we find ourselves .


    Not to be alarmist but I think the situation is deteriorating at present. There are areas of Dublin which are considered no-go areas. There is also a very real need to reform An Garda Siochana itself. While they make the news while cracking a case involving high-end drug dealing, it is the grassroots robbery, intimidation and harrassment offences which are going unpunished. However, this could also be a numbers problem too.
    The new wave of crime also seems to be more anti-social than profit driven. A walk down Marlborough Street or Abbey Street would be an indication of how bad things are going. I couldn't help but notice that sentencing in the courts for serious assault and rape are far too low and I think there is a very real need to invest in a new prison for violent offenders. Either that or we should let the fine defaulters and petty theives out because the junkies and gangs are a far bigger threat.


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    #93
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Ah, limited assistance to the regular force... Well, can u imagine what the GRA would say if we had more of a role.:eek:
    I don't really think the GRA will ever be happy and do you know what: that's their job: so I respect that. But my respect stops when they air in public their opinions about good members of the community. You are among a minority I believe, but as the Tayto add day's there is always one:rolleyes:
    Lookit, if the GRA had there heads screwed on they would embrace that reserves and use them as a tool in getting more for their members. We are the community and even if you don't want to admit it, we carry alot of weigh in our opinions both at local level (community) and at policy level (government)
    Thank anyhow for your opinion a truthfully I do respect it and hopefully one day your opinion might change towards the reserves. Maybe, one might be there for you in your hour of need and then you might appreciate it then.

    I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Is your issue with the current format of the GR or do you simply dislike the GRA for wanting the GR disbanded? Were you to be accepted into AGS as a full-timer tomorrow would you be refusing to join the GRA on moral grounds, relating to their stance on the GR?


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    #94
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I am not against the concept of the GR but think it is a waste of money in its present format as it is of limited assistance to the regular force and the community in general.

    Could have fooled me, maybe you should have been sitting with the GRA in Mayo, and cast your vote to abolish them, or maybe you where, who knows.


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    #95
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Is your issue with the current format of the GR or do you simply dislike the GRA for wanting the GR disbanded? Were you to be accepted into AGS as a full-timer tomorrow would you be refusing to join the GRA on moral grounds, relating to their stance on the GR?

    I think any person has the right not to join the GRA if they want to dont they?? or are they forced to join that as well, i think they should be in tune with there members wishes and not there own.


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    #96
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    ZoneAlarm wrote: »
    Could have fooled me, maybe you should have been sitting with the GRA in Mayo, and cast your vote to abolish them, or maybe you where, who knows.

    You are very defensive. Attack the post, not the poster.


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    #97
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    i have my opinion and lots have there's i will leave it at that, going in circles and off topic.

    I will say one more thing im glad 90% are behind the concept of the GR, im sure the other 10% are hardened old school GRA members, who will never accept the GR what ever is handed down the line.


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    #98
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Is your issue with the current format of the GR or do you simply dislike the GRA for wanting the GR disbanded? Were you to be accepted into AGS as a full-timer tomorrow would you be refusing to join the GRA on moral grounds, relating to their stance on the GR?


    The GRA is a necessary evil like any representative group or union. Would I join it if I got in. Yes... But thats not it... I would still disagree with the stance towards the GR. The GRA does have benefits to been a member. I really do believe that if they took the view of bettering AGS and becoming involved in a passive way with the GR the spin off to their members would be greater than taking a negAtive view. I do no some people disagree with this but when we are on duty we are members of AGS and I just don't understand why an organisation would treat good people like that and try show them in a negative light to the nation to score a point at management. We are all in it for the right reasons , well most of us anyhow!


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    #99
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    munster4868 wrote: »
    I do no some people disagree with this but when we are on duty we are members of AGS

    I believe this is where confusion enters the equation? On duty you are a member of the Garda Reserve, you are not a member of An Garda Siochana, correct?


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    #100
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I believe this is where confusion enters the equation? On duty you are a member of the Garda Reserve, you are not a member of An Garda Siochana, correct?

    Agh, Jesus a discussion for another day. But when I look at my badge it says blaa blaa is a member of AGS. Also, I am a member of the Garda Credit Union. I wouldn't get caught up with this crap... All I know is that I am doing my bit! And my intensions are good. I do really respect your opinion and really hope it might change in the future. It really would be better for all concerned.


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    #101
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Agh, Jesus a discussion for another day. But when I look at my badge it says blaa blaa is a member of AGS. Also, I am a member of the Garda Credit Union. I wouldn't get caught up with this crap... All I know is that I am doing my bit! And my intensions are good. I do really respect your opinion and really hope it might change in the future. It really would be better for all concerned.

    Glad you respect my opinion, but you didn't answer my question. You said in the earlier post I quoted that you consider yourself a member of An Garda Siochana. Is it your understanding that members of the GR are considered members of AGS?


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    #102
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    Glad you respect my opinion, but you didn't answer my question. You said in the earlier post I quoted that you consider yourself a member of An Garda Siochana. Is it your understanding that members of the GR are considered members of AGS?

    Look no matter what I say on this tread you will have your opinion and I will have mine... We, I hope kinda have to respect both, if you need to know that answer for deffo why don't you (a) ask the commissioner or (b) ask your GRA rep to ask the commissioner, because I did pose that question to the powers to be and I know the answer.
    As for the concept of the GR, you either are stuck in the past or invent yourself as a nation and move on. I do believe we as a nation need to evolve and re- invent ourselves and gander the community spirit to make our nation strong not just for us but for our children. Knocking something is easy, but building something that is good and strong is harder. I much prefer a challenge , so maybe that's why I do this. Think about it.


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    #103
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    ZoneAlarm wrote: »
    removed not worth the reply tbh

    No it was, thanks anyhow


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    #104
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Agh, Jesus a discussion for another day. But when I look at my badge it says blaa blaa is a member of AGS. Also, I am a member of the Garda Credit Union. I wouldn't get caught up with this crap... All I know is that I am doing my bit! And my intensions are good. I do really respect your opinion and really hope it might change in the future. It really would be better for all concerned.

    I'm in the Garda Credit union too.
    Does that make me a garda?

    It isn't about your good intentions, it's about what the legislation allows you to do as part of your duties, compared fo a full time garda.
    That is the issue, and you can't seem to see it.


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    #105
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    munster4868 wrote: »
    No it was, thanks anyhow

    Easier to put out a fire if ya stop fueling it, trolling thru post to criticise people is there forte, let them have it i say they know best, no matter what you say they will have something to say, there is one in every class that sits in the front row, class brain box, street idiot.


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    #106
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I believe this is where confusion enters the equation? On duty you are a member of the Garda Reserve, you are not a member of An Garda Siochana, correct?

    Regardless of what he is, if he is in a uniform and looks for assistance you can be damn sure every available member will do their very best to get there and back him up.


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    #107
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    goldie fish wrote: »
    I'm in the Garda Credit union too.
    Does that make me a garda?

    It isn't about your good intentions, it's about what the legislation allows you to do as part of your duties, compared fo a full time garda.
    That is the issue, and you can't seem to see it.

    Only members of ags & Retired and family members can join it.


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    #108
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    goldie fish wrote: »
    I'm in the Garda Credit union too.
    Does that make me a garda?

    It isn't about your good intentions, it's about what the legislation allows you to do as part of your duties, compared fo a full time garda.
    That is the issue, and you can't seem to see it.


    I would hold on tight if I was you. Wait an see. The reserve is here to stay. And will grow in the role, also the role will expand with or without the support of the minority. Sorry, but that is the fact. Read the law, AGS act 2005 section 15. The gRda credit union is open for members of AGS or direct family members of members. Now, none of my brothers, sisters, dad, mam, dUghters or brothers are members of AGS, so that just leaves me. A reserve, so in there eyes, I am a member of AGS. I k ow it's hard to swallow.


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    #109
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    Chief--- wrote: »
    Regardless of what he is, if he is in a uniform and looks for assistance you can be damn sure every available member will do their very best to get there and back him up.

    Chief, I would put my life on the line for any one of my full time regular members without a question, no matter what they thought of me: On duty or off duty.


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    #110
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Chief, I would put my life on the line for any one of my full time regular members without a question, no matter what they thought of me: On duty or off duty.

    +1 100% behind you on that as i know they would for me as well !!


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    #111
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    munster4868 wrote: »
    I would hold on tight if I was you. Wait an see. The reserve is here to stay. And will grow in the role, also the role will expand with or without the support of the minority. Sorry, but that is the fact. Read the law, AGS act 2005 section 15. The gRda credit union is open for members of AGS or direct family members of members. Now, none of my brothers, sisters, dad, mam, dUghters or brothers are members of AGS, so that just leaves me. A reserve, so in there eyes, I am a member of AGS. I k ow it's hard to swallow.

    Well done on missing my point completely.
    Where do you buy your blinkers?


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    #112
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    goldie fish wrote: »
    Well done on missing my point completely.
    Where do you buy your blinkers?

    Sameplace as you dude. But I am not wearing them.


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    #113
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,703 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Don't get personal folks.


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    #114
    TylerIE
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭TylerIE


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    Glad you respect my opinion, but you didn't answer my question. You said in the earlier post I quoted that you consider yourself a member of An Garda Siochana. Is it your understanding that members of the GR are considered members of AGS?


    OT but "Reserve" is a Rank.
    A Reserve is a Member of An Garda Siochana with the Rank of Reserve. Any documentation a reserve has shows same.

    I am aware that forum policy refers to Members as Regular Members or above but on paper and attestation a Reserve is sworn in as a Member with a rank of Reserve.

    And from attestation ever I think its fair to say that any Reserve worth their salt would take treat the oath with the respect that would be given to it by regular members.

    Difficulties with Specials in the UK. From reading and speaking to Serving Specials and indeed Serving PCs and control room staff I understand they still have difficulties with some special constables. They also have great success with some Special Constables who are delighted to do Scene Preservation or Custody duties. There are regular Gardai who hate doing SO and others who seek to be Permanent SO. Everybody has their likes and dislikes.

    A proper consultancy type research paper that I read some time ago did state that one of the key issues with voluntary/part time police (it covered other EU countries) was a decreased reliability. That is a side issue that could be improved with employee motivation and integration. Furthermore Just like there are currently Reserve Gardai who will only do the weekend on nights for the obligatory 16hrs/ month there are (a significant group of) others who will do more and offer to be rostered for station duty or the less glamorous tasks. Most of the Reserves in my station happily cover station duties - those that dont do so (understandably) as they feel that if doing so they should have full IT access to allow them access to everything that could possibly be needed.


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    #115
    Hill St Blue
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Hill St Blue


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I believe this is where confusion enters the equation? On duty you are a member of the Garda Reserve, you are not a member of An Garda Siochana, correct?

    Of course Garda Reserves are members of An Garda Siochana...the Garda Reserve is not a separate organisation.
    They are attested members who hold the rank of Reserve (it's a rank, in the same way that Garda, Sergeant, Inspector etc are ranks...it's just the bottom one!) Just throwing in the facts, so informed debate can continue!


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    #116
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    Hill St Blue wrote: »
    Of course Garda Reserves are members of An Garda Siochana...

    I disagree.
    Hill St Blue wrote: »
    the Garda Reserve is not a separate organisation.

    Again, I disagree. Trainee Reserves are selected for membership of the Garda Reserve, not membership of An Garda Siochana. This information booklet makes it quite clear that candidates are applying for the Garda Reserve, not a reserve section of An Garda Siochana.
    Hill St Blue wrote: »
    They are attested members who hold the rank of Reserve

    Indeed. They are attested members of the Garda Reserve, the rank is immaterial.


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    #117
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I disagree.



    Again, I disagree. Trainee Reserves are selected for membership of the Garda Reserve, not membership of An Garda Siochana. This information booklet makes it quite clear that candidates are applying for the Garda Reserve, not a reserve section of An Garda Siochana.




    Indeed. They are attested members of the Garda Reserve, the rank is immaterial.

    Yawn, as I said go and inform yourself, ask the commissioner... or read up on the law as bit or better still ask a reserve kindly to show him they badge which is the same as your one and wait for it, read it, and wal-la you might then be informed....... I wouldn't be entering into this debate with you as it is side tracking off the topic.


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    #118
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Bosh wrote: »
    It was all part of Micheal McDowells reign, or perhaps personal crusade would be more accurate, which saw the unapposed introduction of the Garda Síochána Act, parts of which will yet be struck down as unconstitutional, introduction of the Ombudsman with all it's inherent flaws, the tootless Inspectorate and of course the famous 14,000.

    Maybe a matter for another thread, but why do you think the 2005 Act is unconstitutional?


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    #119
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Maybe a matter for another thread, but why do you think the 2005 Act is unconstitutional?

    Thanks, I was going to ask the same myself... Can't wait for the answer.:eek:


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    #120
    CaseyRyback
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭CaseyRyback


    munster4868 wrote: »
    Yawn, as I said go and inform yourself, ask the commissioner... or read up on the law as bit or better still ask a reserve kindly to show him they badge which is the same as your one and wait for it, read it, and wal-la you might then be informed....... I wouldn't be entering into this debate with you as it is side tracking off the topic.

    I find it increasingly difficult to follow your arguments. As for badges, which you seem to keep mentioning, your ID states you are a Garda Reserve (are you now allowed to take ID home?).

    You are not a member of An Garda Siochana and I would evidence this with a simple query as to your powers under the public order act? Then tell me what powers a member of the Garda Siochana has under the act? With the limitations on your powers I would suggest you are nearer to a PCSO in the UK.

    This is why professional police officers (i.e those who do the job for a living) despair of certain volunteers who, through a misguided understanding of the law/their powers & role, make themselves and full-time members look foolish in the eyes of the public.

    I wonder how many applicants there would be to the GR if the uniform was obviously different to that of An Garda Siochana, so as to denote the differing roles/powers.


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    #121
    munster4868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 780 ✭✭✭munster4868


    CaseyRyback wrote: »
    I find it increasingly difficult to follow your arguments. As for badges, which you seem to keep mentioning, your ID states you are a Garda Reserve (are you now allowed to take ID home?).

    You are not a member of An Garda Siochana and I would evidence this with a simple query as to your powers under the public order act? Then tell me what powers a member of the Garda Siochana has under the act? With the limitations on your powers I would suggest you are nearer to a PCSO in the UK.

    This is why professional police officers (i.e those who do the job for a living) despair of certain volunteers who, through a misguided understanding of the law/their powers & role, make themselves and full-time members look foolish in the eyes of the public.



    I wonder how many applicants there would be to the GR if the uniform was obviously different to that of An Garda Siochana, so as to denote the differing roles/powers.

    Right, I am looking at my ID badge now at home, oh yes we are allowed to take them home. On the badge it says" this is to certify NAME is a member of an Garda Siochana with the rank of reserve Garda signed commissioner.
    Now, we have as mentioned in the Garda Siochana act 2005 the same powers and privileges as other ranks of AGS and so on... And on the public order powers.... Wait for it... I am thinking you are going to be a very unhappy bunny soon... And as for the uniform, when the reserves was set up 5 years ago the uniform was different, the cap had a blue band on it... But they felt under health and safety grounds that it wouldn't be wise to single out a reserve in that manner to the general public. These discussions about I'd cards uniforms and powers are taken by people in power whether in AGS or holding the office of minister and I respect that. I can say in the 4 years I am serving as a reserve Garda I never came across a negative member. I get invited to weddings, party's, nights outs.... Etc... The only time I come across negative remarks is here and thank God it's few and far between.
    I can't understand either why you mention public order powers... Does those powers make you a real guard!!! But as I said, watch this space.... Soon!


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