Gardaí want 'mollycoddled' Reserve abolished

goldie fish

munster4868 wrote: »

I can't understand either why you mention public order powers... Does those powers make you a real guard!!! But as I said, watch this space.... Soon!

It makes you far more useful on a saturday night.

munster4868

goldie fish wrote: »

It makes you far more useful on a saturday night.

Agreed... But there is alot more to policing than public order! Prevention is better than detection... So visibility, is the key to this. Usually I find that the regular member is only too delighted to have an extra pair of eyes and an extra paIr of hands with him / her. Even with FCPS... I always hand everything over too the delight of the regular member. And before you say it, reserves are allowed to issue FCPS's but I do know that some reserves aren't allowed to do so due to a confusion surrounding their powers but this will be cleared up soon also, I hope:rolleyes:

in your face

I think that the continuing expansion of the GR program while there is a moratorium of full time recruitment is the biggest hurdle it faces at the moment. It cannot be seen as anything other than "policing on the cheap" which is occurring while full time members pay has been reduced by 15-17%.

Another huge problem is the mistrust which can bubble under the surface. An example of this would be in one of our sub-districts, where a GR in his 50's told the unit he was working on that he plays golf with a Super in the division, who encouraged him to join the Reserve. The GR then get stationed within his own district ( I thought this was not meant to happen?). On his first day he tells the skipper that the Super thought it was about time ******* station "Got a good man" and proceeded to straighten the skipper's tie! How can the lads on the beat or in the car possibly trust this man?

The "mollycoddling" statement seems a bit harsh but I can see where it comes from. We currently have 5 working on our unit, with 3 GRs attached. Does that not seem a bit high? I might finally get a night on files but because the 3 lads are in I'll be sent out in another car with one of the GR's or on the beat. There goes my night on files, I might get 1 a roster as I'm the only van driver on unit.

However, I have to balance this out by saying that the 3 lads we have attached to our unit are gents and actually have intentions to join full time, or are/were already in the recruitment cycle when the moratorium was implemented. They're not reluctant to get stuck in when required!

CaseyRyback

munster4868 wrote: »

Now, we have as mentioned in the Garda Siochana act 2005 the same powers and privileges as other ranks of AGS and so on... And on the public order powers....

Save for the fact that you do not enjoy the same powers and privileges as other ranks, point in case Public Order powers. You cannot patrol alone, do not enjoy full powers of arrest, in fact it is arguable whether you even meet the criteria to be described as a police officer, which is why I would suggest your role is more akin to a support officer role as exists in the UK.

munster4868 wrote: »

I can't understand either why you mention public order powers... Does those powers make you a real guard!!! But as I said, watch this space.... Soon!

Re PO powers, see above.

As for being a real Guard (why am I reminded of Pinnochio) you are not in fact a Guard, you are a Reserve Garda in the Garda Reserve. Big difference

goldie fish

I'm reminded of a scene many years ago when a Man called to the public office in Rathfarnam wishing to speak to a Garda. The Female member on duty asked how she could assist him, only to be told...
"No, not a Ban Garda, a REAL Garda......"

munster4868

in your face wrote: »

I think that the continuing expansion of the GR program while there is a moratorium of full time recruitment is the biggest hurdle it faces at the moment. It cannot be seen as anything other than "policing on the cheap" which is occurring while full time members pay has been reduced by 15-17%.

Another huge problem is the mistrust which can bubble under the surface. An example of this would be in one of our sub-districts, where a GR in his 50's told the unit he was working on that he plays golf with a Super in the division, who encouraged him to join the Reserve. The GR then get stationed within his own district ( I thought this was not meant to happen?). On his first day he tells the skipper that the Super thought it was about time ******* station "Got a good man" and proceeded to straighten the skipper's tie! How can the lads on the beat or in the car possibly trust this man?


The "mollycoddling" statement seems a bit harsh but I can see where it comes from. We currently have 5 working on our unit, with 3 GRs attached. Does that not seem a bit high? I might finally get a night on files but because the 3 lads are in I'll be sent out in another car with one of the GR's or on the beat. There goes my night on files, I might get 1 a roster as I'm the only van driver on unit.

However, I have to balance this out by saying that the 3 lads we have attached to our unit are gents and actually have intentions to join full time, or are/were already in the recruitment cycle when the moratorium was implemented. They're not reluctant to get stuck in when required!

If all what you say is true and I have no reason to disbelieve you that is wrong.
Firstly, the 50 year old RG needs to be spoken to... Regardless of who he knows... The amount of RG in your station does seem to be high and should be looked at... And not getting stuck in when needed... Also not good enough and should be reported to the skipper and they should be re-trained and tutored in the correct way in dealing with situations.
As for you doing files and not been able, ya I can understand how that would be frustrating... I would have a word if I was you with either the skipper or the liaison inspector to the reserves and try to work out a better roster system for the reserves.
The key to this is to communicate and I would say most issues would be resolved... Well maybe except for the 50 year old guy that really by the sound of it shouldnt be allowed to wear the uniform of AGS.

munster4868

CaseyRyback wrote: »

Save for the fact that you do not enjoy the same powers and privileges as other ranks, point in case Public Order powers. You cannot patrol alone, do not enjoy full powers of arrest, in fact it is arguable whether you even meet the criteria to be described as a police officer, which is why I would suggest your role is more akin to a support officer role as exists in the UK.



Re PO powers, see above.

As for being a real Guard (why am I reminded of Pinnochio) you are not in fact a Guard, you are a Reserve Garda in the Garda Reserve. Big difference

Dude, your beyond talking to... Enjoy your work lad. Slan

munster4868

goldie fish wrote: »

I'm reminded of a scene many years ago when a Man called to the public office in Rathfarnam wishing to speak to a Garda. The Female member on duty asked how she could assist him, only to be told...
"No, not a Ban Garda, a REAL Garda......"

Ya, that's as wrong as the GRA saying what they said about the GR and real guards... Wrong wrong wrong in both examples... As you said... A blast from the past... A relic of where we came from and where we shouldn't return to.

CaseyRyback

munster4868 wrote: »

Dude, your beyond talking to... Enjoy your work lad. Slan

Fella you said you have all the powers and privileges of other ranks in An Garda Siochana. I'd like to know how you understand that to be the case when you cannot make a public order arrest?

Your posts indicate a reluctance to accept anything that doesn't tally with an apparent misguided belief that you are a 'Real' Garda (your term) and this is exactly what I was referring to when I said many professional cops find reservists with this mindset embarrassing. It smacks of Walter Mitty.

goldie fish

munster4868 wrote: »

Ya, that's as wrong as the GRA saying what they said about the GR and real guards... Wrong wrong wrong in both examples... As you said... A blast from the past... A relic of where we came from and where we shouldn't return to.

The difference being the Female garda had the exact same powers as a male garda. This is not the case with the reserve.

ZoneAlarm

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2005/2005.pdf

15.—(1) The Garda Commissioner may, subject to subsection (4)
and the regulations, appoint persons as reserve members of the
Garda Sı´ocha´na to assist it in performing its functions.
(2) A person is not eligible to be appointed as a reserve member
unless he or she has completed the prescribed training.
(3) Subject to subsection (5), a reserve member has, while on duty,
the same powers, immunities, privileges and duties as a person
appointed under section 14 to the rank of garda.
(4) The power to appoint persons under subsection (1) may be
exercised only if—
(a) the Garda Commissioner has submitted proposals to the
Minister for the training of persons to be so appointed,
and
(b) regulations have been made concerning their recruitment
and training and prescribing the terms and conditions of
their position.
(5) The Garda Commissioner may determine the range of powers
to be exercised and duties to be carried out by reserve members.

Solemn declaration.
16 “I hereby solemnly and sincerely declare before God
that—
• I will faithfully discharge the duties of a member
of the Garda Sı´ocha´na with fairness, integrity, regard
for human rights, diligence and impartiality,
upholding the Constitution and the laws and according
equal respect to all people,
[2005.] Garda S´ıocha´na Act 2005. [No. 20.]
• while I continue to be a member, I will to the best
of my skill and knowledge discharge all my duties
according to law, and
• I do not belong to, and will not while I remain a
member form, belong to or subscribe to, any political
party or secret society whatsoever.”.

I suggest people read up on the above link, and it should make it clear to all concerned.

Shield

This thread has gone so far off the original topic and has descended into the usual 'Garda Reserve Powers'/'Are they Members or not' drivel that I dealt with in the Garda Reserve forum some years ago. I'm not dealing with it again.

Thread closed.