Gardaí want 'mollycoddled' Reserve abolished

ZoneAlarm

This is my personal opinion on this, but from what i can see now, the former Commissioner and the new Commissioner are all in favor of the Garda Reserves, so was the last 2 former Ministers of Justice and im sure Mr Shatter is also behind them, do the GRA not think its time to stop "BEATING" the Garda Reserves with a stick, every time they have a conference its the same old old, we want to abolish the reserves blah blah, seems like they are now trying to row in behind the sinn fein remarks a while back.

I think its about time that the GRA except they are "NOT" going to be abolished, and get on with trying to find a way to work with them, i know this is all a saving face game with them, but i do think the time has come to except this.

If the Commissioner and the Ministers past and present can except it cant see why the GRA cant, as per the article below, and at the end of the day i dont think any full time member cares if its reserve or not is another pair of hands at the end of the day, remember the reserve member is also risking their lives and limbs same as the full time member, when a row breaks out the people involved dont go, ohhhh wait he is a reserve leave him / she alone, they see members in uniforms nothing more.

Also my opinion if Reserves are willing to risk their lives or limbs for other members, and some are prob members of the GRA, do you not think you the GRA should show some sort of respect for these people, im sure full time members have been in trick situations and the reserve member was there to get stuck in, do you think the full time member cares if he / she is a reserve i would very much doubt it.

At the end of the day everyone knows the GRA where never in favor of the Reserves, and is only trying to save face as to try and get rid of them, lets all work together, after all, we are all striving towards the same goal, and on the same side.


Garda chief defends reserve force

on 13/04/2011 08:54:14


Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan has defended his reserve force after demands from rank-and-file officers for its abolition.

The police chief insisted there was a "groundswell" of support for the reservists despite claims by full-timers that they were "baby-sitting" and "mollycoddling" the part-timers.

"I'm very much supportive of the Garda Reserve," said Mr Callinan.

"It's not there as a threat to sworn members of the force, who enjoy my absolute confidence. They are there to assist."

Dismissing remarks made at the Garda Representative Association (GRA) annual conference, Mr Callinan said the relationship between the reserves and the full-timers was going well.

"They have a limited role to play and they're doing a very, very fine job," he added.

The GRA voted unanimously to seek the abolition of the Garda Reserve during its conference in Westport, Co Mayo.

Officers complained that the unpaid part-timers were costing up to €4m a year, which they said could be spent on recruiting more than 100 new full-timers.

The Garda Reserve was set up in 2005.

It is expected to reach its target of 1,400 recruits - a 10th of the size of the full-time force - by next year.

TylerIE

but the Commissioner also stated:

He pointed out that the Reserve would be involved in traffic control and other duties during the forthcoming visits of Britain's Queen Elizabeth and US President Barack Obama.

This doesnt give me much hope for the role to be expanded or updated - Reserves still have to be semi accompanied for traffic, and it reminds me of what the Special Constable was traditionally seen as for many years.

And if thats the main role Reserves are seen as having its essentially a free traffic warden. He doesnt mention anything about range of duties being expanded or reviewed etc

I know Reserves are often used for event traffic but I guess many reserves either a) are waiting to join the regular so dont really mind as so long as they learn a little and have it for CV / Interview the current role doesnt affect them majorly or (b) joined in anticipation of the scope of the reserve being expanded over the medium term.

Also I think we forget that Reserves, on or off duty are Sworn Members of AGS (with the Rank of Reserve). Therefore they have the duties and responsibilities of a Regular member in the course of their private lives, and are subject to the same scrutiny for any questionable activities or mistakes in their private lives as a regular member would be (e.g. in instances where a regular would face an Ombudsmans investigation such as a fatal road traffic accident or even a drunken assault). And on a day to day basis its probably inappropriate for any Garda (and therefore including a Reserve) to be socially associating with lets say a recreational drug user, who carries and uses at the weekends etc....

This is a significant responsibility for anybody, and while Reserves take it on willingly, this should be recognized.

ZoneAlarm

You will have to wait for the new report to be released, reserves always do traffic duties regardless, so lets give it time, at least he is behind the reserves at the end of the day.

MagicSean

I would be interested to know how many of the members at the conference actually work with the reserves. Any member I know who is against the reserves does not work on the regular and does not work with them on a regular. Those on the regular are often more greatful to have the extra person alongside them.

gilly0512

ZoneAlarm wrote: »

You will have to wait for the new report to be released, reserves always do traffic duties regardless, so lets give it time, at least he is behind the reserves at the end of the day.

ZoneAlarm it will be quite interesting to see if the current review of the Garda Reserve recommends any changes, as I think we are all crying out for more powers and responsibilities. However the comments of the Commissioner do not augur well, as while he may be in favour of the Reserve, the fact that we are only seen as providing a "very limited role" does make one think that nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future?

ZoneAlarm

gilly2308 wrote: »

ZoneAlarm it will be quite interesting to see if the current review of the Garda Reserve recommends any changes, as I think we are all crying out for more powers and responsibilities. However the comments of the Commissioner do not augur well, as while he may be in favour of the Reserve, the fact that we are only seen as providing a "very limited role" does make one think that nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future?

Well we will have to wait and see and hope the new report will sort things out, but for the moment its a waiting game im afraid.

Johnnyk1984

I would like to see what the full time members on here think of this?


i would beg to differ on special occasions for example last easters parade reserve members were brought into do point duty which had to bedone....so in effect part time members were cutting into full timers ot as the point duty had to be done regardless and it cost zero for a reserve however if a reserve wasnt around a mule got the call for the ot.

Spartan09 wrote: »

I can only speak about my experiences in my station but the presence or absence of a reserve on shift has absolutely no bearing whatsover on the availability of overtime to the Gardai I work with. I often stay on with the member I have been walking with for the extra 3 hours OT on a Friday or Saturday night and the feedback I always get is that its good to have an extra set of hands when things kick off. The response of the Sgts to me offering to stay on is usually "great an extra set of hands to help out and it doesnt cost us anything in OT". Extra I think is the operative word, not instead of, or comparable to or as useful as.

I was talking with a member while out on the beat last weekend about the general perception of Reserves in the station and she said that it was generally positive with one or two exceptions, we agreed that the Reserves who had common sense fitted in well with their units and those that dont have it... I can categorically say that from my perspective I have been welcomed by my unit on every single day / night I have gone in and have been thanked on the way home for coming in. Yes there are ways that the Reserve could be improved, to benefit of the Reserve members and just as important the full time Members that we are there to assist.

Zambia

I have always had the idea that the Garda reserve was a vehicle purely designed to put extra boots on the street.

It made perfect sense from a certain perspective loads of people were in the queue to join the force. It was always a good idea to see if they would do it for free.

The garda reserve are no doubt stocked full of very switched on individuals some of whom would make very good full time Gardai. However I fear their very presence in the reserve, is thwarting their chances of becoming full time by filling staffing demands for free. Why should the state buy the cow etc..

ZoneAlarm

Johnnyk1984 wrote: »

I would like to see what the full time members on here think of this?

i would beg to differ on special occasions for example last easters parade reserve members were brought into do point duty which had to bedone....so in effect part time members were cutting into full timers ot as the point duty had to be done regardless and it cost zero for a reserve however if a reserve wasnt around a mule got the call for the ot.

I dont believe that for one moment, this is a pure "speculation" started by the GRA to twart the efforts of the Garda Reserve, and turn full time members against the Garda Reserve, remember one thing a Reserve member still needs to be, quote from the "GRA" mollycoddled, so where does that take away from the full time member ? you can have 2 full time members and a reserve out on the beat, this is and always will be a stick used by the "GRA" to beat the Reserves with.

Zambia wrote:

I have always had the idea that the Garda reserve was a vehicle purely designed to put extra boots on the street.

It made perfect sense from a certain perspective loads of people were in the queue to join the force. It was always a good idea to see if they would do it for free.

The garda reserve are no doubt stocked full of very switched on individuals some of whom would make very good full time Gardai. However I fear their very presence in the reserve, is thwarting their chances of becoming full time by filling staffing demands for free. Why should the state buy the cow etc..

First off the Reserve member is not a fully trained "Garda" and as everyone is quick to point out, DO not have full powers, their powers are very very limited, so there is no way we are standing in the way of the said ( cow ) so to speak, this is totally down to money which the country does not have, so even if, the Reserves was abolished the so called 3million figure which is been bantered about, which its supposed to cost the state that money would be used else where, and prob not even used in purchasing anything inc new cars etc.

munster4868

ZoneAlarm wrote: »

While in theory you are correct in some parts, "BUT" not in all im pretty sure there will be something set up, it just takes time that's all, wheels turn very slowly in the system im sure you are very aware of this.

But something will be set up in some form or shape.

Do you know something ZoneAlarm:)

munster4868

I am afraid to say that reserves will never be allowed to patrol on their own... Well not in my lifetime! The specials have been in existence for more then 180 years and is still evolving.... They are still referred to by regular members as "hobbie bobbies" and there is still a them and us attitude. When the reserve was set up it was to assist the regular member and never take a job from a regular member, so to patrol alone would in essence take q job from the regular member. As for more powers, yes it is needed and I do believe it will happen soon if not quite soon! This might prove to be helpful to regular members but let's not forget the extra workload this will bring onto the reserve. The side to policing that we currently see is exciting but when you are caught up in court taking days off work and the possibility for making mistakes should not be lost in all this. The commitment made by reserves so far is great and will get more demanding as their role expands.

ZoneAlarm

munster4868 wrote: »

Do you know something ZoneAlarm:)

:pac: mmmm prob as much as you do i suppose its a waiting game

think you missed a bracket in your post above >>>>> ]

Zambia

Lets say a soccer game requires 50 gardai, can 30 gardai be deployed and 20 reserves? Or are the reserves simply added to the Garda numbers to make 50 + the reserves that are sent.

munster4868

Zambia wrote: »

Lets say a soccer game requires 50 gardai, can 30 gardai be deployed and 20 reserves? Or are the reserves simply added to the Garda numbers to make 50 + the reserves that are sent.

Are you starting a soccer team. Count me in:eek:

ZoneAlarm

Yes they can use 20 reserves under CJ (PO) act 1994, reserves may at public events be deployed without been "babysat" at these events.

from section 21 (1) of CJ (PO) act 1994 right up to section 24 (4) CJ (PO) act 1994

and may also arrest under these sections themselves with or without a full time member.

im sure if you look this up you will find all the relevant information dont want to be putting stuff in here which is not needed

munster4868

munster4868 wrote: »

Are you starting a soccer team. Count me in:eek:

Sorry Zambia: there's me thinking somebody wanted to start a soccer team for the gardas/reserves!!!

ZoneAlarm

i will play as well as long as i don't have to be "mollycoddled" otherwise we never get anywhere !! :pac:

munster4868

ZoneAlarm wrote: »

i will play as well as long as i don't have to be "mollycoddled" otherwise we never get anywhere !! :pac:

Well, if you think i am going to play soccer without my babysitter minding me you can forget it... I just might fall and hurt myself

Hea, did you hear we (the reserves) are been issued with Official Garda Bibs and soothers. Can wait.

TylerIE

ZoneAlarm wrote: »

Yes they can use 20 reserves under CJ (PO) act 1994, reserves may at public events be deployed without been "babysat" at these events.

from section 21 (1) of CJ (PO) act 1994 right up to section 24 (4) CJ (PO) act 1994

and may also arrest under these sections themselves with or without a full time member.

im sure if you look this up you will find all the relevant information dont want to be putting stuff in here which is not needed

Getting off topic but does the reserve role not state on duty "at the other perimeter" of events?

ZoneAlarm

lst wrote: »

Getting off topic but does the reserve role not state on duty "at the other perimeter" of events?

all public events thats what that covers.

gilly0512

munster4868 wrote: »

I am afraid to say that reserves will never be allowed to patrol on their own... Well not in my lifetime! The specials have been in existence for more then 180 years and is still evolving.... They are still referred to by regular members as "hobbie bobbies" and there is still a them and us attitude. When the reserve was set up it was to assist the regular member and never take a job from a regular member, so to patrol alone would in essence take q job from the regular member. As for more powers, yes it is needed and I do believe it will happen soon if not quite soon! This might prove to be helpful to regular members but let's not forget the extra workload this will bring onto the reserve. The side to policing that we currently see is exciting but when you are caught up in court taking days off work and the possibility for making mistakes should not be lost in all this. The commitment made by reserves so far is great and will get more demanding as their role expands.

Dear god munster4868 are us poor Reserves going to have to wait another 150 years before we are allowed to patrol on our own ? I do agree that it will probably not happen in any of our lifetimes, although I do happen to think that it would be the making of the Garda Reserve, as it would allow Garda Reserves to do what they are supposed to be doing, i.e. going on the beat?

Zambia

ZoneAlarm wrote: »

Yes they can use 20 reserves under CJ (PO) act 1994, reserves may at public events be deployed without been "babysat" at these events.

from section 21 (1) of CJ (PO) act 1994 right up to section 24 (4) CJ (PO) act 1994

and may also arrest under these sections themselves with or without a full time member.

im sure if you look this up you will find all the relevant information dont want to be putting stuff in here which is not needed

So pre december 2006 if 50 fulltime Gardai were required for that role that's how many were deployed.

After December 2006 management can utilise the reserve and less than 50 fulltime Garda are deployed to those roles. The slack being taken by the reserves.

If that is the situation then clearly the need for more full time Garda is reduced in this case. That's just how I see it, unless there is something I have missed.

munster4868

Zambia wrote: »

So pre december 2006 if 50 fulltime Gardai were required for that role that's how many were deployed.

After December 2006 management can utilise the reserve and less than 50 fulltime Garda are deployed to those roles. The slack being taken by the reserves.

If that is the situation then clearly the need for more full time Garda is reduced in this case. That's just how I see it, unless there is something I have missed.

Look it's as simple as this Gardai = money ... If you haven't realised yet the state is bankrupt and has been losing money hand over fist since the budget 2006. If the state required 50 Gardai yes they would have been found but off other units thus leaving a void in other areas. If life was like what you were kinda hinting at well... There would be no waiting lists in hospital... No homeless people.... Zero unemoyment... And we all would have enough money to do what we want.... Life isn't like that and defo not now... We make the best of what wehave for socitities sake and the better of the community.

redsurfer

Zambia wrote: »

Lets say a soccer game requires 50 gardai, can 30 gardai be deployed and 20 reserves? Or are the reserves simply added to the Garda numbers to make 50 + the reserves that are sent.

Hi

Im stationed in the D.M.R. and have being on duty at lots of events, and what i have seen is that if 50 gardai are needed, they will be got (from some where) and the reserve will add to that number. I have never seen of reserves taking OT off a full member.

ZoneAlarm

Zambia wrote: »

So pre december 2006 if 50 fulltime Gardai were required for that role that's how many were deployed.

After December 2006 management can utilise the reserve and less than 50 fulltime Garda are deployed to those roles. The slack being taken by the reserves.

If that is the situation then clearly the need for more full time Garda is reduced in this case. That's just how I see it, unless there is something I have missed.

Yes you have missed the point they "dont" that is the point if the full time members are required they are, reserves are utilized to help as well so you would have 50+ at the event, all i was doing is merely pointing out "if" they wanted to do it that way there is legislation in place for it.

Manic Moran

For those who didn't check out the Politics thread on the subject, my tuppence's worth.
____

As a reserve soldier, I'm trying to imagine the concept of an army reservist who isn't allowed to shoot anyone even if there's a member of the regular Army standing next to him. This would strike me as the reservist being nothing more than a decoy and as an utter waste of time and uniform allowance. i.e. Not worthy of the term 'reserve'. A reservist is a reserve, capable of doing the exact same job as the front line force he's augmenting.

Reservists allow you to save money in that they don't need full time pay, usually not the benefits post-retirement.
However, in the field, they are held to the exact same standards as the full-time counterparts. An enemy soldier isn't going to look at the unit insignia and go easy on me because I'm a reservist, and I strongly doubt a criminal is going to look at a Garda reservist and go easy on him either. (Indeed, he may just mock him more).

The government needs to figure out if these guys are reservists or aides, train them appropriately, and assign them appropriately. If they're going to go on patrol with regular Gardai, they need to be trained to something approximating a similar standard. If they're aides, then don't spend the money and effort, and assign them to do nothing more than stand on a street corner with a radio, observe and report.

Either system can work. But it seems to me that they're trying to do things on the cheap.

NTM

ZoneAlarm

My sentiments exactly as per my post (32)

If the Commissioner and the Ministers past and present can except it cant see why the GRA cant, as per the article below, and at the end of the day i dont think any full time member cares if its reserve or not is another pair of hands at the end of the day, remember the reserve member is also risking their lives and limbs same as the full time member, when a row breaks out the people involved dont go, ohhhh wait he is a reserve leave him / she alone, they see members in uniforms nothing more.

Also my opinion if Reserves are willing to risk their lives or limbs for other members, and some are prob members of the GRA, do you not think you the GRA should show some sort of respect for these people, im sure full time members have been in trick situations and the reserve member was there to get stuck in, do you think the full time member cares if he / she is a reserve i would very much doubt it.

goldie fish

I don't think GR members can be members of the GRA.

Zambia

What is the percentage of serving members in the GRA?

ZoneAlarm

goldie fish wrote: »

I don't think GR members can be members of the GRA.

Dont make me laugh, they want to disband the GR i doubt they would want them, maybe in the next century they might who knows, what the future holds.