The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Hammar

muincav wrote: »

Dear Cavan...(letter from a fan...lol)
All I can say is a BIG thanks to the Cavan lads...you made what could have been an ordinary championship into an Extraordinary Championship...every game was exciting in its own way (even when Marty Duffy turned a blind eye..lol)..
You brought Pride back to Cavan football, in a time when NONE of the so called experts gave you a chance... You went out and enjoyed the games and made it even more enjoyable for us the fans...I hope now you can build on this season and even if you dont get as far again for a while, just keep enjoying your football and we will all enjoy watching you...P.S.-Anthony Forde can now give his fingernails and nerves a rest....
Yours sincerely-An appreciative CAVAN fan...:D

Taffy Kat wrote: »

Rather than focusing on the negative we should look at the good aspects of today and this season.

Cavan have made massive progress this year. Five consecutive wins, and two big runs out at Croke Park. A good young team with the potential to develop greatly in the future and a good manager to guide them.

Today was always going to be tough, but at least the players gave an account of themselves, not a full account because they played beneath themselves, but at least they turned up in the second half. The important thing now is to harness the progress and win division 3 next year because being in the top two leagues is very important to be well prepared for the championship. Then a real drive for Ulster.

Well said gents,looking forward to 2014 already...

willabur

Lemlin wrote: »

I think the lads are really carrying their winning mentality from the U21s through.

They aren't resting on their laurels and are already talking about next year.

Thats good to hear. They really do seem to be a special bunch of players, yesterday will be something that they can draw on going forward. Targetting the league and another u21 success next year should be the goals to begin with next summer. After that we want to be aiming for the quarter finals again.

On the game itself it was very disappointing. It reminded me a bit of the u21 final in that everything we did after getting the first score just didn't work out. Perhaps its the croke park effect, maybe they need a bit more experience there in order to channel their energies effectively.
In the first half Kerrys half back line really smothered the hell out of us. Despite starting brightly Givney struggled in midfield by sheer weight of numbers it wasn't until the really impressive Argue came on that we began to assert control in this sector. I was very impressed by Rory Dunne at 3, McVitty wing back and especially our captain at 6 who I thought was terrific. Without wanting to be coming down on specific players I thought we struggled big time at half forward and in the other half back positions - this for me is where kerry killed us. Mackey came into the game very well and in the end was outstanding. Our inside forward line was always going to struggle when starved the way they were. Someone needs to sit down with Keating and the video game and go over his decision making on the field, he does so much right but lets himself down with a rash or over ambitious shooting. Dunne his point aside didn't get a sniff, he had a bit of a rant at Terry when he came off which was caught on camera but hopefully this is an energy that can be harnessed into a positive thing rather than an indicator of a johnstonesque attitude..


On terry I think he got a few things wrong which fair dues to him he had the wherewithall to change things around and fix his mistakes. Starting Mcvitty was brave and he repaid that faith by playing extremely well. However not starting Jack and McDermott were mistakes. For me Jack is the best footballer we have, very creative and economical. Its worthwhile having him on the pitch because these are essential qualities when your half forward line has been completely shut down. The introduction of him, a strong runner in mcdermott and effective support for Givney in Argue brought cavan back to competing in this game. I'm sure terry will look at this going forward and learn from it.


To conclude I would just like to thank the lads for an entertaining summer. Unfortunately I am away from home for the forseeable future and it has made being away so much easier knowing there is a Cavan game to look forward to in the summer, was even able to brag about this great young team coming through to other expats. Looking forward to the Mckenna cup and u21s already

Tom Joad

First time really on here since the match yesterday. Still have mixed feelings about it but its not unlike the feelings I had after 97 - the only difference is I know these boys will be back and we won't have to wait for another 16 years for a summer to remember.

Having lived through some of the darkest days in Cavan football in recent years this year was fantastic and once again we can be proud of our team. Every member of the panel worked their nads off since last winter and should be immensely proud of what they achieved and the management team have done a fantastic job.

Thanks lads for a wonderful summer and I know that next year is going to be a good one too and that panel is only going to get stronger.

Hard to single out players since there was such a huge team effort but Alan Clarke, Rory Dunne and Cian Mackey have been immense all year and have showed real leadership -something we have been missing for a long while in Cavan - the future is in safe hands.

Lemlin

I'm a glutton for punishment so watched the BBC coverage of the match today and then watched what the lads on The Sunday Game had to say. I still have the TV3 coverage left to watch!

McHugh, as per usual, was overly critical. When I saw he was co commentator I knew exactly what to expect. The lads on The Sunday Game were a bit more appreciative of us lifting the performance in the second half.

It's a mark of a great season where we are disappointed with losing to Kerry in an All Ireland quarter final. The lads let themselves down on the day but we've had a fantastic season, easily the best since '97.

I also think Terry will have learned alot about the team in what was his first full year in charge. In fairness, I think he also let the lads down a bit.

Starting McVitty was the correct choice but we shouldn't of gone with two sweepers. We hadn't enough up front. McDermott, as I said here last week, should have started.

Maybe tiredness caught up with the lads a bit. Players like Ronan Flanagan, Martin Reilly and Corr who are normally good and have had good seasons struggled yesterday.

Whatever the reason, we just didn't perform but hopefully the lads will learn from it.

Last year we lost by 19 points to Kildare in a Round 2 qualifier. This year alone we won more games, five, than we've won in all the seasons combined since 2005. That's some turnaround.

The future is blue folks!

Syferus

Well done to Cavan this year. Always like to see our fellow blue bloods doing well.

I think our meeting in D3 next year has the potential to decide promotion and because of that it could well be the most pivotal game both play in 2014. Both counties desperately need to reach D2 to realise their potential.

Lemlin

Syferus wrote: »

Well done to Cavan this year. Always like to see our fellow blue bloods doing well.

I think our meeting in D3 next year has the potential to decide promotion and because of that it could well be the most pivotal game both play in 2014. Both counties desperately need to reach D2 to realise their potential.

Two teams get promoted so no reason why it can't be both! Who is coming down with Longford?

DARK-KNIGHT

Great run for ye this year lads well done to your lads!!!!

Syferus

Lemlin wrote: »

Two teams get promoted so no reason why it can't be both! Who is coming down with Longford?

Wexford. With Offaly coming up it's almost an exact repeat of the 2012 D3 line-up. Wide open for a team to take the division by the scruff of the neck. Hope it is Ros and Cavan making the trip to Croker in April.

bigtimecharlie

Had a great day out on Sunday. A game that they could have won based on the second half performance, but that 20 minute period in the first half when Kerry went 6 points unanswered cost us.

Yes Kerry starting the second half with a 9 point lead weren't going to push themselves, but we should have been closer, gave them a better game in the first half.

Proud of them, and as mentioned earlier, lets not wait 16 years for the next Croker appearance.

willabur

Starting the game with the second sweeper allowed Kerry to swallow up our forward line with ease. We weren't gaining enough ground around the middle of the park either which meant the supply line into our forwards was brutal. I can see the reasoning behind this system in that it was designed to maintain possession and pick the kerry players off one by one but in order for that to work our passing had to be so precise and on the day it just wasn't there.

Second half i feel we reverted to a more natural game, pushing mcdermott up who broke lines and took scores. Mackey came into the game also. I'm sure terry and the boys will look at the video, analyse it well and maybe come to the conclusion that we showed kerry too much respect on the day. But as was said before this is necessary learning for such a young set up. Hopefully they can continue to perform and improve and as Rory Dunne himself said, won't stop until they have silverware to show for their efforts!

Lemlin

Well done to Cian Mackey who won Player of the Month for July.

Hopefully an All Star will follow.

KeepTheFaith

We learned a few things from Sunday:

-Tomas Corr is a grand player for tight pitches in poor conditions but is too limited for the higher levels.
-Michael Argue at about 6'6" looks like he could be a fine midfield option. He can play ball too. Would like to see himself and Gearoid together, although it's unlikely Terry would pair them.
-Serious questions remain over Keating's positioning at full forward.
-Alan Clarke is a wonderful captain. Look at his post match interview, he really looked hurt and sounded bullish about next year.
-If every player had the composure and temperament of McVeety and Killian Clarke we would be a formidable outfit.

celt262

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

We learned a few things from Sunday:

-Serious questions remain over Keating's positioning at full forward.

Where would you like to see him played.

If Givney was FF would you put Keating on the 40?

willabur

Keating needs to improve his decision making massively. His talent is not in doubt but with capable players waiting in the wings I don't think his position is guaranteed. For my money Kevin Tierney has massive potential for this position, he provides a real goal threat also

celt262

willabur wrote: »

Keating needs to improve his decision making massively. His talent is not in doubt but with capable players waiting in the wings I don't think his position is guaranteed. For my money Kevin Tierney has massive potential for this position, he provides a real goal threat also

Its a pity Hyland doesn't seem to think the same about Tierney.

willabur

he is still young and developing. Had some bad injuries so it might not be any harm to keep him back for next year, he will bring more of a surprise element

KeepTheFaith

Tierney is a solid player but is miles behind Keating in terms of pace and physicality. Even at U21 level he never looked commanding in the full forward line. He's made a few camoes at Senior level and failed to even get a score. A few have been very short apperances but even the longer ones have failed to see him register.

Western Pomise

Like to say fair play to Cavan for re-emerging at senior level in 2013.

Lemlin

willabur wrote: »

Keating needs to improve his decision making massively. His talent is not in doubt but with capable players waiting in the wings I don't think his position is guaranteed. For my money Kevin Tierney has massive potential for this position, he provides a real goal threat also

I'm looking forward to seeing how Keating does in the Dublin club championship with Sylvesters.

In regard to forward options, I know a man who attends Cavan matches at all grades and has good knowledge of the county scene and he is expecting alot from Paul O'Connor.

KeepTheFaith

Paul O'Connor looks a very good player. Not altogether unlike his cousin Cillian from Mayo. I think Tom Hayes has the makings of a mighty little corner forward.

Had Niall McDermott started v Kerry I firmly believe our first half attacking performance wouldn't have been nearly as inept. Great man to carry the ball, create opportunities and win frees.

This year was about getting the defence in order. Next year we need to branch out with the attacking plan.

Tom Joad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

This year was about getting the defence in order. Next year we need to branch out with the attacking plan.

This is spot on. For years we have struggled in defence - its a mark off how well Terry has done that this is now our strength. Rory Dunne needs to be wrapped in cotton wool though as he has been hit by a lot of injuries in his career. With McKiernan, Givney, O'Reilly and Corr we have good options in midfield - we do need to sort our attack now though - Keating has a lot to learn as fantastic as a talent as he is - I still think Dunne can be nullified by good teams. Tierney, Paul O'Reilly, Turloc Mooney and Conroy are good prospects. Barry Reilly though still seems to be as far away as ever from breaking through.

Two questions I will throw out there

1. Is there merit in swopping Givney and Keating - put Keating at midfield - would be good bombing forward and Givney is well able to score - you could then use Givney as a target man?

2. If you were in Hyland's position and Johnston does go back to the Gaels do you invite him in for the league?

KeepTheFaith

Tom Joad wrote: »

This is spot on. For years we have struggled in defence - its a mark off how well Terry has done that this is now our strength. Rory Dunne needs to be wrapped in cotton wool though as he has been hit by a lot of injuries in his career. With McKiernan, Givney, O'Reilly and Corr we have good options in midfield - we do need to sort our attack now though - Keating has a lot to learn as fantastic as a talent as he is - I still think Dunne can be nullified by good teams. Tierney, Paul O'Reilly, Turloc Mooney and Conroy are good prospects. Barry Reilly though still seems to be as far away as ever from breaking through.

Two questions I will throw out there

1. Is there merit in swopping Givney and Keating - put Keating at midfield - would be good bombing forward and Givney is well able to score - you could then use Givney as a target man?

2. If you were in Hyland's position and Johnston does go back to the Gaels do you invite him in for the league?

Keating is a fantastic ball winner. Better than Givney, it's his decision making and composure that lets him down. On Sunday he was winning the ball and then making a mess of a 5 yard fist pass. I wouldn't have Givney in the full forward line, his shooting is no better than Keating's. Have him midfield or half forward. Sadly, we can't be sure how well Gearoid will recover. Givney needs coaching and experience but the raw talent is there to be a very good midfielder.

I think Hyland is much too smart to bring Johnston back in. Firstly, it brings along with it the whole media attention. Imagine you bring Johnston back in and lose the first game of the league, could well happen either way but the media will jump on it, the supporters will point the finger at the return of Johnston for any failures.
Secondly, the players themselves. You only have to look back at Feargal Flanagan going at Johnston in the Kildare game last year and Niall McDermott's reaction when he scored the free kick. His introduction would add in a variable to a panel that is currently united and happy for the first time in years.
Finally to Johnston himself, talented yes and entering what should be his peak. But still question marks remain about his consistency and attitude on the field.
For me, the risks in bringing him back far outweigh the potential return. If nothing else, refusal to bring him back would lay down a marker. This is a new proud Cavan era, if you want to play for this team nothing less than 100% commitment and desire will do.

Hammar

Tom Joad wrote: »

This is spot on. For years we have struggled in defence - its a mark off how well Terry has done that this is now our strength. Rory Dunne needs to be wrapped in cotton wool though as he has been hit by a lot of injuries in his career. With McKiernan, Givney, O'Reilly and Corr we have good options in midfield - we do need to sort our attack now though - Keating has a lot to learn as fantastic as a talent as he is - I still think Dunne can be nullified by good teams. Tierney, Paul O'Reilly, Turloc Mooney and Conroy are good prospects. Barry Reilly though still seems to be as far away as ever from breaking through.

Two questions I will throw out there

1. Is there merit in swopping Givney and Keating - put Keating at midfield - would be good bombing forward and Givney is well able to score - you could then use Givney as a target man?

2. If you were in Hyland's position and Johnston does go back to the Gaels do you invite him in for the league?

I don't know if you could play Keating and McKiernan together at midfield,Both lads are too attack minded. The more i see of Michael Argue,the more i like. There are other options aswell, Paddy King with Killeshandra should probably get looked at,He was very good with the under 21's last year. Packie Leddy is another one whom i'd like to see brought in, Big, Physical and mobile. The size difference between ourselves and Kerry was very noticeable.
As for your second question, I know he is probably quite friendly with lads like Mackey,McKeever,Ronan Flanagan and co whom he has played with aswell as his Gaels teammates,but i would question whether some of the other lads whom are now part of the backbone of the team would want him there.
Was it Niall McDermott and Fergal Flanagan that had a bit of an altercation with him in last years qualifier defeat???
The last thing we want is to disrupt the good work that has been done by bringing a potentially divisive figure into the fray.
It will be interesting to see what reception he gets from other teams in the senior championship.

Tom Joad

Fair points re Keating/Givney - When McKiernan was fit in the league Givney was generally not playing beside him so same would probably true of Keating.

Re Johnston - I have a feeling the groundwork is being done to facilitate his return - I've heard that the players have been canvassed on a potential return - would love to be a fly on the wall for that one!!!

I know a lot of strong feelings still exist about Johnston and the way he left but can a county like Cavan afford to exclude a player off his quality?? or could it destabilise the whole camp if his attitude is not right??

KeepTheFaith

Tom Joad wrote: »

Fair points re Keating/Givney - When McKiernan was fit in the league Givney was generally not playing beside him so same would probably true of Keating.

Re Johnston - I have a feeling the groundwork is being done to facilitate his return - I've heard that the players have been canvassed on a potential return - would love to be a fly on the wall for that one!!!

I know a lot of strong feelings still exist about Johnston and the way he left but can a county like Cavan afford to exclude a player off his quality?? or could it destabilise the whole camp if his attitude is not right??

How true do you think the canvas story is? I find it particularly hard to believe, especially that they'd bring that up in the middle of a good Championship run. The Gaels lads perhaps but I'd be shocked if the county did that.

Imagine if he was brought back in now and it upset the balance of the panel. How would the likes of Kevin Tierney busting himself for Cavan for the past few years see Johnston invited back in. I don't care how hard he works or how strictly the treat him, the damage is done at this stage. I would be horrified to see him in a Cavan jersey again. Best of luck to him if he wasn't to go back to the Gaels I wouldn't begrudge him an Ulster Club title but if Hyland and Co. bring him back in they are putting their positions and reputations firmly on the line.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

This is spot on. For years we have struggled in defence - its a mark off how well Terry has done that this is now our strength. Rory Dunne needs to be wrapped in cotton wool though as he has been hit by a lot of injuries in his career. With McKiernan, Givney, O'Reilly and Corr we have good options in midfield - we do need to sort our attack now though - Keating has a lot to learn as fantastic as a talent as he is - I still think Dunne can be nullified by good teams. Tierney, Paul O'Reilly, Turloc Mooney and Conroy are good prospects. Barry Reilly though still seems to be as far away as ever from breaking through.

Two questions I will throw out there

1. Is there merit in swopping Givney and Keating - put Keating at midfield - would be good bombing forward and Givney is well able to score - you could then use Givney as a target man?

2. If you were in Hyland's position and Johnston does go back to the Gaels do you invite him in for the league?

Turloc Mooney left the panel a number of weeks ago. He was playing full back for the juniors and wasn't happy so he walked.

To answer your questions:

1. We now have a huge amount of options at midfield with Argue coming through. It's not clear how long Gearoid will take to get back flying fit but I'm told he's training like a Trojan. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the 40 and Givney left in midfield. My hope for Keating is that playing in the Dublin club championship will help him mature as a player.

2. Absolutely not. I can't see it happening. I don't believe the canvas rumour one bit. He's not needed. Yesterday Jack Brady and McDermott were on the bench. I'd see either as apt alternatives to Seanie.

Syferus

I'd say it depends on how willing Seanie would be to go all out and mend bridges. He'd be as entitled as any player in Cavan to attend the county trials whenever they're on and doubtless he'd be good enough to at least make the panel. It'd be up to Hyland then.

klairondavis

Tom Joad wrote: »

2. If you were in Hyland's position and Johnston does go back to the Gaels do you invite him in for the league?

Kildare radio confirmed today that he has made himself unavailable to play club championship in Kildare next weekend presumably so he won't be ineligible to play for Cavan Gaels. My opinion for what it's worth is that he would still have something to offer as an inter county player but that the inevitable off the field media circus that his return would generate would negate any positive impact he might have on the field.

I'm struck by the age profile of Sunday's Cavan team as outlined above. If they can stay together and the next few u21 teams can produce a few more quality players then Cavan will be a force to be reckoned with. They are probably still two or three years away from an Ulster title but it's certainly an achievable goal. That group of players has come a long way in twelve months from the team that I saw against Kildare last summer.

celt262

klairondavis wrote: »

I'm struck by the age profile of Sunday's Cavan team as outlined above. If they can stay together and the next few u21 teams can produce a few more quality players then Cavan will be a force to be reckoned with. They are probably still two or three years away from an Ulster title but it's certainly an achievable goal. That group of players has come a long way in twelve months from the team that I saw against Kildare last summer.

I think that i read here or elsewhere that the main work was done on the defense in the past year so hopefully it will mean that Hyland will line up slightly more attack minded next year.. I think that if we can get out of Division 3 and get Big G back to the form he showed in league this year along with a few reliable inside forwards and 1 or 2 half backs who can kick a few scores we wont be far away from a Ulster in two years time.

Lemlin

klairondavis wrote: »

Kildare radio confirmed today that he has made himself unavailable to play club championship in Kildare next weekend presumably so he won't be ineligible to play for Cavan Gaels. My opinion for what it's worth is that he would still have something to offer as an inter county player but that the inevitable off the field media circus that his return would generate would negate any positive impact he might have on the field.

I'm struck by the age profile of Sunday's Cavan team as outlined above. If they can stay together and the next few u21 teams can produce a few more quality players then Cavan will be a force to be reckoned with. They are probably still two or three years away from an Ulster title but it's certainly an achievable goal. That group of players has come a long way in twelve months from the team that I saw against Kildare last summer.

The Gaels are playing the preliminary round of the senior championship this weekend so surely any transfer would have gone through by now for him to be eligible. In saying that, the last year he played for them was in 2011 and he wasn't started until the latter rounds of the championship. Although I've been told that's because he was concentrating on his golf at the time! I just don't think there's a need for his return. Already there's a media circus and, to be honest, I think the media are driving this. For example, last weekend a number of papers carried a headline that Terry had said he would play Johnston if he was back in Cavan and available for selection. That was not correct. Terry actually made comments about players in general in the county, not specifically about Johnston. Cavan have a great panel now and the last thing we need is something like this derailing it.

A more in depth look at the lads and their ages (a few may be wrong by a year or so) that I posted on another thread:

O'Mara - 23
Corr - 27
Dunne - 24
Clarke - 20
McLoughlin - 20
Clarke - 27
Flanagan - 25
O'Reilly - 24
Givney - 24
Mackey - 25
McVeety - 19
Flanagan - 21
Reilly - 26
Dunne - 24
Keating - 24

Subs:

McDermott - 23
Argue - 19
Tierney - 21
McEnroe - 24
Brady - 21

Subs that didn't play:

Gilsenan - 20
Minagh - 23
Murray - 23
McKeever - 29
McCutcheon - unsure
Brady - 23

Gilsenen, Clarke, McVeety and Argue are all U21 next year. Next year's U21s are the only team that actually won their grade at minor and they have some cracking players besides those four mentioned like Conor Moynagh and Gerard Smith. I got a bit of criticism over on the Meath thread for saying that we have a strong bench but I don't think there's any arguing with it. I think McDermott should have started but a couple of the papers, including the Independent, have pointed out what a difference our subs made. Look at Michael Argue, he came off the bench against Derry and scored two points and setup a goal. Then he came on against Kerry in an All Ireland quarter final and won some great ball against Moran and Buckley. At 6 foot 6 he's a colossus. Players like McVeety and Martin Reilly also played themselves into starting on a winning team over the course of the championship which isn't an easy thing to do. There are also lads like Chris Conroy, who has played for the juniors the last two years and was man of the match for the U21s in the Ulster final this year, that are part of the wider panel but not making the 26 yet.

My one worry is injuries. Rory Dunne, our 2010 U21 captain, is only just back from a series of injuries and our 2011 captain, Gearoid McKiernan, has suffered his second cruciate ligament injury at only the age of 23. Alan O'Meara has spoke candidly about how this group of players in 2008 I think it was, lost to Tyrone in a minor Ulster match by a point. They threw that game away and vowed to stick together through to U21 level. Three years later they made the All-Ireland U21 final. I've no doubt that already this panel have had that chat about next year and any interview I've seen with any of them was very focused about how we had won nothing yet.

There's no doubting a few will slip off the panel or may not make the grade but I think there's a big enough pool of talent there for Cavan to be successful. Talk about us challenging for Ulster in 2 or 3 years - We ran the Ulster champions to the last minute this year and could have won a game we lost by a point! We're already challenging for it.