The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954989#Comment_117954989

Cornafean are actually doing quite well at underage but allegedly that is because they are lifting players from Ballinagh and Ballinagh are now in bother - they could only field a 9 a side team at U13, not very good for a town team!

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955301#Comment_117955301

I would agree with all that and calling for amalgamations just to improve competitions is ridiculous. Just because clubs join at underage does not mean they are struggling to field at senior level. If they got only 2 players coming into a senior panel ever year they will survive. Its not that long ago the gaels and killygarry joined at Minor, going by Lemlins logic maybe they should amalgamate?

Also they wouldn't get any additional funding. Why do you think they would Lemlin? Clubs look out for themselves they don't care if a Cavan club never wins ulster.

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955301#Comment_117955301

Wound you like a saucer of milk? Not sure why you seem to find the need to reduce a debate to catty remarks.

One of the posters above said Swad & Corlough have about twenty players. Both were struggling for numbers pre amalgamation so how is a club cutting half its players amalgamating? Did Swad lose their best player because of an amalgamation or because he had a desire to play at a higher level?

You are aware GAA managers are paid quite a lot of “expenses” now? Two teams amalgamated means they are using one manager and not two. It also means volunteers are not as hard to come by - those are also pretty difficult to find as what used to be a “volunteer” role as a club secretary can take the hours that a part time job would now.

In relation to training, training should be at a higher level and improve the players taking part.

Dernacrieve I believe is Corlough, Swad & Shannon Gaels but I didn’t confirm that as I wasn’t sure and, if I was incorrect, you’d hold that against me so I was damned if I asked the question or hazarded a guess either way.

To be honest, if you’re using any aspect of Leitrim football as a barometer, well…. Let’s just say there’s a reason Leitrim are regularly used held out as a yardstick for mediocrity.

Honest question, when was the last time you attended a club or county board meeting and saw at first hand some of the issues clubs are facing?

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955626#Comment_117955626

The Killygarry & Gaels amalgamation was a total piss take. Much like Lacken & Gowna amalgamating each year as Southern Gaels. Both clubs could field on their own most years.

The extra funding would come from two areas pooling their lotto, fees to the county board cut in half etc.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955856#Comment_117955856

Be a bit off a piss take also for Drung and Kill to join at Senior when they can field on their own don't you think?

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955889#Comment_117955889

Why are they amalgamating at underage level then? Something not adding up somewhere. Looking at some of the age groupings, they’re actually amalgamating to enter two teams - not sure where the sense is in that.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956113#Comment_117956113

Some years Drung might have 9 in a age group and Kill have 14 and vice versa in other years. It would be very rare that either would have enough to go on there own and the agreement is that one club won't let the other down. As it moves up through the ages the dropouts start and 9 doesn't be long becoming 2 or 3 after minor but 2 every year will keep a club going.

The two teams is a county board idea to get as many playing as possible. It's better to have 20 lads guaranteed a game every week instead of 11 or 13.

baconsarnie

Whilst there is logic that amalgamations could potentially make county football more competitive, there is also an unspoken tension between club and county. Sure at a local level, we all love to see lads break into the county team. And the extra training and conditioning benefits players which then usually makes them better club players. But for many, club is where it is at, and having lads off playing county (and getting knocks or prioritising county games) isn't where it is at.

Look at the Gaels at their pomp or Castlerahan recently. No one cribbing their about players' priorities in those clubs!

And not every club brings lads together solely for the chance of winning (clearly, look at the results). For many, it is a social thing with health benefits of keeping fit for as long as possible, representing your parish and who knows, actually enjoying playing the game. Amamalgamations actually undermine many of those benefits by limiting the amount of games lads will get and discouraging those on the fringes by reducing their chances of game time or connection with their club.

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117956113#Comment_117956113

It's not rocket science for some clubs and is based on very specific age cohorts. For example, if you had a parish that fielded a minor team with a panel of say 20, at a minimum there will be every 2 years 10 players moving into the senior panel. If you take that as a rough estimate (taking into effect lads getting married or losing interest due to lack of time to commit or not getting game time or emigrating or injury) that within 5 years you would have a panel of 50. Which of course doesn't happen. So having numbers at a specific time in place (in 2020 you could have a rake of under 14s and then nothing for another 5/10 years due to age cohorts in the area) that necessitates playing as an amalgamation for the age related restrictions for underage football and not need to amalgamate for adult grades. Barring the odd areas in Cavan with booming populations that is and has been the norm. And even the areas like Killygarry that have lots of kids will have a slump in 10 years time as there will be a natural gap until more kids are born and grow up (unless loads of people move there for an indefinite period).

It doesn't mean that clubs won't struggle at times and possibly go under (that can and will happen) but there is a massive amount of local pride and social capital in having your own local team. In terms of volunteers, most that i know will crib and moan but they will continue to line pitches, train kids, sell lotto, make tae, wash kits and give people lifts because that is their local GAA Club, they have always done it, their families have always done it, it part of their local identity and they love doing it, and i for one think it is a real strength of the GAA that makes it unique and something that should be celebrated.

County standards can and were raised by a real strategy in youth development that reaped rewards in the past and that's where things need to be explored.

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958054#Comment_117958054

No, I'm dismissing that you see Leitrim as any sort of yardstick to measure a county against. Leitrim are generally used by most as a barometer for what not to do. You may think that's arrogant but its the fact of the matter.

Every footballer finds their grade. That's what reserve is there for. I actually sometimes enjoy watching the reserve games more than the first team games.

The fact is that clubs like Corlough, and indeed Maghera I suspect soon, just won't be able to sustain themselves. As I asked you, when was the last time you attended a club or county board meeting? Go to a club meeting and see the issues clubs are facing. Chairman, secretary, treasurer - these roles are taking up the same hours now as a part time job, a full time job at certain times of the year - for example, a large fundraiser. You had a big club like Ballinagh, backed by a town, struggling to fill their board a couple of years back.

You are just looking at it as a game to get players on the pitch - that's not the reality of it anymore. Every club is nearly like a mini business now and the fact is that the population and ''volunteers'' aren't there to support 40 clubs going forward. That's why a pooling of resources makes sense, unless things dramatically change but, if anything, other sports like rugby and soccer are coming stronger - which I don't mind seeing. The biggest thing clubs have now is the growth of Ladies GAA.

You seem to only see what happens when the clubs have 15-20 lads on the pitch on a Sunday but don't have knowledge of all the effort, work and funding required to maintain that, and how much some clubs are being stretched at the minute.

Cavan_King

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958098#Comment_117958098

Go and watch Shercock a few weeks in a row for someone to tell you they're a senior football team and see if you agree we don't need to raise standards.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959731#Comment_117959731

It has gone from amalgamations due to lack of numbers to clubs not able to get chair persons and treasurers. I don't know a club in the county operating without any of them at the moment. Even your point about the lack of numbers in the school in Leitrim and the success of their senior team was totally ignored and sneered at in a totally different direction.

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959023#Comment_117959023

Last time I checked Cavan, Longford & Leitrim weren’t struggling to put nine kids on a field so they can have their own U13 team. They also hadn’t gone a decade or so without winning a game like a Corlough or Maghera.

Why would I stop labouring a point when you continue labouring that I said amalgamations would lead to a higher standard of football. It’s just one of a number of points I made, and was actually a lesser one, but you’ve continually pointed to it as though it’s my only argument.

Could you answer my question re when you last attended a club or county board meeting? Like I said above, if your only knowledge of the work involved is what the treasurer told you in the local 30 years ago, I’m not surprised you have very little knowledge of what’s required.

You also seemed to struggle to grasp that managers are paid when I suggested it was a pooling of management resources. Ask some clubs about it. You’ll be shocked to hear there are management teams out there pulling in quite a bit.

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958325#Comment_117958325

Sorry, I'll have to bite. I have no idea what this means (it's not your clearest sentence). But I think you're going to use a small club with limited players who have massively exceeded expectations to stay in senior for the last 4 years to suggest standards need raising at a county level? A two point loss to Lavey, a one point loss to Kingscourt and a five point loss to many people's favourites Ramor.

Quick comparison: your boys (the mighty Lough) currently have a massive one point more than Shercock with the same games played, have the same points scored (40) and Shercock have conceded 4 more points. On that basis, anyone watching the Lough over the last three weeks could make the same claim about standards.

People in glass houses and all that....

Cavan_King

Peter Quinn did a report back in the early part of the last decade. I know it recommended that senior clubs were cut down to 9 but did it have any comment on amalgamations? I can't find the contents of the report online. Just a reference to it in a Joe.ie article laughing that Cavan were told to cut the number of senior clubs from 13 to 9 but actually increased it to 16 at one stage!

baconsarnie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961785#Comment_117961785

8 teams would be loads. Relegate the current bottom 9-13 right now just for handiest sakes 🤩

etuzyuk

When talking amalgamations there can be two different interpretations of what exactly is being proposed.

Small country clubs go through peaks and troughs numbers wise but they are a vital part of the community and provide a great service. Exposing as many children as possible to sport and GAA is great and should be encouraged and if a club can go it alone underage it's wrong to amalgamate just so some coaching wannabe can chase some silverware.

However for the premier tier of the county competition I think everyone should have the opportunity to compete and improve themselves if they wish to play at a higher lever. A county championship like they have in Kerry would be great to see, with maybe 10-12 teams encompassing all 40 clubs in the county. After that the clubs stay clubs and compete individually in the regular club competitions at senior, intermediate and junior. In Kerry they also have additional local league/championships based on your locality with all the clubs from that region be it junior, senior or intermediate competing against each other. Makes for great local derbies and grudge matches with the smaller clubs getting a cut at the big boys.

Think that would work great here and the additional competitions would add a bit of spice to things. Personally I'd have more interest in say 4 local leagues/championships (e.g North/South/East and West Cavan championship) than the league the way it currently runs. Plus we don't get to see county players compete anyway and the competition has a drawn out feel to it. The current league could be condensed a bit, local leagues/championships could be run anytime and not dependant on the release of county players. There would be an abundance of games for non intercounty players to play all year round.

rrs

That's it, there is 8 Senior Clubs in the Kerry County Championship the rest if made up of Amalgamations.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-20314760.html

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961232#Comment_117961232

I’m going to ignore everything else and just go for the last point: the players from Dernacrieve are even playing with their neighbouring clubs from U7 so why would they know any different if clubs amalgamated?

If anything, you’re pulling them away from lads they have trained with and played with since they were 4 and what, telling them to forgot the last 13 or 14 years and now imagine a huge rivalry is there with their former team mates?

tanko

Crosserlough and Castlerahan gone and Martin McHugh thinks this is a sign of the strength of Cavan club football.

rrs

Castlerahan V Killygarry in the Relegation play off

Shercock V Lacken

Its likely Castlerahan will be Intermediate next year unless Keoghan gets a big performance from them.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971432#Comment_117971432

Do you know the QF pairings?

rrs

Gowna v Mullahoran

Kingscourt v Lavey

Ramor V Ballinagh

Cavan Gaels v Laragh

Lemlin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971432#Comment_117971432

I don’t think Castlerahan will bounce back from intermediate very soon either. They could be hit with retirements and don’t have much coming through.

rrs

Mad game between Bailieborough and Bbridge. Bborough were the better team and costing by 10 pts but Butlersbridge stepped it up in last 15 minutes. A great goal by John Fitzpatrick brought them back in it. Then they scored a goal from a dropping ball, and scored from the kickout.. The bborough was injured and was evident from his kickouts throughout the game

baconsarnie

That Bridge / Bailieborough game was absolutely compelling stuff. Given the conditions there was some lovely scores and you really couldn't take your eyes off it. Credit to the Bridge, that was a serious come back. Even at 10 points down they never panicked and kept plugging away and didn't chase goals when many teams would have. They took their points and kept chipping away. Fitzpatrick had an absolutely brilliant second half, took his goal really well but also kicked points when they needed scores.

Bailieoborough will be come out of that not knowing how they lost it. It was utterly bizzare that they didn't replace their keeper earlier. Seven points up at half time and when the Bridge put the press on and the keeper couldn't go more than 20 feet was just asking for (and getting) wave after wave of attack. Tactically when they got the third goal I could see why they wanted to sit it out, but why not bring Michael Argue out to the middle then as a target. I know they looked gassed for the last 5 minutes but tactically they seemed to miss a trick or two.

Rhys Clarke was superb all night for the Shamrocks. But you would hope that sort of loss doesn't do them any long-term damage as they have improved hugely from last year and if they keep progressed surely have an intermediate title in them. I don't think the Bridge's defence will hold out against the Cucus but with that level of passion they will be handful for anyone.

Cavan_King

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961213#Comment_117961213

I waited until this morning to post this hoping we'd pull off the great escape but, alas, it hasn't happened. At least we finish in obscurity and haven't a relegation play off to contest.

In regard to Shercock, I have no problem with a team attempting to play to their strengths but, even against the likes of Lavey & Lacken, who are also limited rural teams with low numbers, they don't drop the negative tactics. A couple of weeks ago they played a blanket against a Lavey team with Gerry Smith on one leg. Why not go for it? They have Sankey, Clarke, the Clerkins and other good footballers - just as many as a Lavey or Lacken have.

I would expect them to beat a very poor Lacken team though and retain senior status yet again.

rrs

What's the reason Martin Mchugh does commentary for Cavan stream? He is obviously getting well paid to travel from Kilcar which is over 2 hours away.

His commentary isn't great ,and its clear he isn't up to date with some players so why have him doing it? He has a gra for Cavan from his time managing and does be in Cavan a bit but bound to be others they could have got

Paddy Sheanon is good and Jody Clarke.

tanko

McHugh is terrible but Sheanon and Clarke are just as bad. It’s obvious that Sheanon spends his time learning who all the players are and that’s it, nothing else of substance to contribute. Referring to some players by their nicknames is annoying i find, not everyone watching knows who he is talking about. There’s only so much “he got his pocket picked there” or “there’s 26 mins and change gone” you can listen to. Cavstream is great once the sound is turned off imo.

rrs

Sheanon has a good enough knowledge of players. The commentary can be a bit like a chat in the pub at times. but they are providing a service and it would be fairly dull to watch it with no sound.

I'd prefer to attend games, but its been handy to watch a few games on the stream as a means of seeing some matches.