The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Tom Joad

Thunderbirds wrote: »

That forum you mention has gone ridiculous

I try and avoid it these days but it is incredible the amount of people that repeat some of the stuff they hear there as gospel.

Jampip

rrs wrote: »

Well I heard different, but anyway, I know they offered him work, but it was Deegan who got him the mive and then he was sacked at the end of that Year.

and I am aware I left out Tierney, he didn't make an impact on the Cavan Senior panel in my opinion. He started 4 games in the League last year and didnt impress, introduced in a few others.

Tinelly was a squad player, but he would same sort of player as Niall Murray ie, pacy run at defence so not a big loss. , McVeety is similiar too

You heard wrong re Keating to be honest. There was certainly no talk of a move to Ramor or even a return to Cavan club football. If there was, it would be to Cuchulainns.
Re Tierney, he did leave to go travelling, I didn't say he didn't, but, if he had been featuring more or told that he may feature more, you have to wonder if he would have gone. I agree he didn't impress last year but this year, without a big man in the forward line, he could have been given a chance to impress. For example, if I gave you the option of throwing Tierney or Bud Fitzpatrick into that full forward at the start of the year in League games who would you have gone for? Michael Argue came on and operated at full forward in the KIldare game and had a poor match. I'm not sure if it was because he wasn't match fit or because it's not his position but there's a game that Tierney could have been thrown on in.

Re Tinnelly, I certainly would have had him ahead of some of the players in the pecking order who came on against Meath and that's what I'm basing my opinion that he is a loss to the panel on. I stated it after the Meath game that their stronger bench won the match for them and I'd stick by it. I don't like naming individuals and singling them out for poor performances but one lad came on and you'd struggle to notice he was on the pitch.

baconsarnie wrote: »

There's a certain other Cavan gaa related forum/gathering of bitter trolls that would have you believe that all of those players "walked" (including a crocked Givney) as they had were disillusioned with Cavan"s style of play

Good to see a bit of common sense over here and a few facts as well- facts in the other place are like hen's teeth. It's vitriol & hyperbole or nothing at all

I presume this is aimed at me because I brought up how the panel has been effected. I agree with you that what goes on that forum is a disgrace and that's why I started posting here. You need to be balanced in your views though. I'd certainly see myself as pro-Terry and I do think he has tried to adapt our playing style this season but, the bottom line is, I was at the McKenna Cup game against Down in January 2013 and our problem was being too slow and ponderous at moving the ball forward and two years later that is still the problem. Yes, we had a lot of success with our tactics later in 2013 but 2014 showed that the better teams had adopted and we need something better now. Being balanced though, it also has to be remembered the dreadful run of injuries we suffered in 2014.

Looking at the panel this year in the League, I can give various occasions where it was clear our performances were effected by a weak bench e.g. Moynagh coming on vs Kildare as I said earlier, Argue coming on above (and that's not a slight on either player, they had reasons for performances to be below par). Also the players who came on against Meath when better players have left the panel. Yes, players do leave panels but it is clear from the number that have left that there have been some issues with management and I've heard there have been heated meetings between players and management on at least two occasions about the playing style. I'm sure others have heard similar on here.

It just all leaves me wondering if Terry has brought these players as far as he can. I commend what he's done but some of the players are listening to him since 2010, maybe its time now that, after half a decade, they heard a different voice to see what it can introduce to the table.

baconsarnie

Jampip wrote: »

I presume this is aimed at me because I brought up how the panel has been effected.

You presume wrong, it was aimed, as was intended, at the trolling on t'other place.

I did make the point that reasoned debate on here was such a relief than the other place

Valid points all that you have raised- I agree re: Tierney, he got a fair few starts last year in the league but clearly didn't do enough to warrant his place (in the eyes of the selectors, and i'd have to agree).

I'd agree that we need to be balanced- I wasn't exactly feeling the love for our style of play at the Down game this year (conditions aside) but we have to recognise that year on year, we've made serious strides.

Let's not forget that we almost got relegated to division 4 and that our standards were at as low an ebb as I can recall. I'm not naive enough to fall for the "future is blue" nonsense but for one thing, this system and management has at least made us competitive. We can even hold out hope for more than 2 championship games for the last few years

But a valid point about where next for the management team. But i think that needs to be answered after the Monaghan game- and hopefully with a serious slice of luck (which we would need- something like Mc Manus getting lost on the way to the ground) we don't need to talk about for some time

Jampip

baconsarnie wrote: »

You presume wrong, it was aimed, as was intended, at the trolling on t'other place.

I did make the point that reasoned debate on here was such a relief than the other place

Valid points all that you have raised- I agree re: Tierney, he got a fair few starts last year in the league but clearly didn't do enough to warrant his place (in the eyes of the selectors, and i'd have to agree).

I'd agree that we need to be balanced- I wasn't exactly feeling the love for our style of play at the Down game this year (conditions aside) but we have to recognise that year on year, we've made serious strides.

Let's not forget that we almost got relegated to division 4 and that our standards were at as low an ebb as I can recall. I'm not naive enough to fall for the "future is blue" nonsense but for one thing, this system and management has at least made us competitive. We can even hold out hope for more than 2 championship games for the last few years

But a valid point about where next for the management team. But i think that needs to be answered after the Monaghan game- and hopefully with a serious slice of luck (which we would need- something like Mc Manus getting lost on the way to the ground) we don't need to talk about for some time

"Serious strides" is putting it mildly. From 2005 to 2013, we didn't beat a team in the championship that weren't in Division 4 at the time. Fermanagh, Wicklow and Antrim were the only teams we defeated. Longford hockeyed us in our own back yard in 2011. And, as you mention, but for sheer luck we should have been in Division Four come 2013.

Being honest, I think we are two years behind Monaghan in terms of development. They've just had a hugely successful stint in Division 1. They are an established team and they'd have to be expected to beat us.

People talk about 2013 and the semi final but, if anything, Monaghan have got much stronger since 2013 and we have maybe not gotten worse but definitely stagnated.

That said, I do agree that, with the right determination and a bit of luck, we might just catch them on the hop. In our McKenna Cup game against them in January, everything went right for us in the first half. I'd never seen a better display of shooting from Cavan. Two or three points even went in off the post. We'd need more of the same again to beat them but its not impossible.

Jampip

We played New York and now we're playing London this weekend. Seems a bit ridiculous to be getting ready for a Championship game against Division One opposition by playing Division Four teams.

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

We played New York and now we're playing London this weekend. Seems a bit ridiculous to be getting ready for a Championship game against Division One opposition by playing Division Four teams.

We were in New York - Kerry unwilling to travel again after what happened in '47.

London because Lorcan Mulvey/ Buttlersbridge pitch!

We are also playing Meath if that helps

cavan4sam

I see two former panelists got themselves ulster titles with cootehill harps this weekend. Keith Fannin and Enda Hessan . The latter i was disappointed is no longer on the panel .dont know why but i thought he had good potential if not a little raw

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

We were in New York - Kerry unwilling to travel again after what happened in '47.

London because Lorcan Mulvey/ Buttlersbridge pitch!

We are also playing Meath if that helps

The New York trip was a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Dragging lads on a seven hour trip to train and play some matches. Monaghan went to Portugal the same week. A nice three hour flight and no jetlag.

Meath are the type of opposition we should be playing to be honest. Division 4 teams are no edition. It's like a senior team playing a weak junior side. We'll gain nothing from it. For example, we know Martin Dunne can kick scores against Division 3 and 4 sides, its Division 1 and 2 teams he needs to be tested against.

There's been a definite change in focus though from somewhere. In previous years, we played very few challenge games and there was very little fanfare about them. Totally the opposite this year.

Couple of injuries in the panel as well. Martin Reilly didn't play with Killygarry last weekend. Chris Conroy didn't play with Lavey.

Tom Joad

Jampip wrote: »

The New York trip was a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Dragging lads on a seven hour trip to train and play some matches. Monaghan went to Portugal the same week. A nice three hour flight and no jetlag.

Meath are the type of opposition we should be playing to be honest. Division 4 teams are no edition. It's like a senior team playing a weak junior side. We'll gain nothing from it. For example, we know Martin Dunne can kick scores against Division 3 and 4 sides, its Division 1 and 2 teams he needs to be tested against.

There's been a definite change in focus though from somewhere. In previous years, we played very few challenge games and there was very little fanfare about them. Totally the opposite this year.

Couple of injuries in the panel as well. Martin Reilly didn't play with Killygarry last weekend. Chris Conroy didn't play with Lavey.

Totally disagree with you re the New York trip. The top counties are now going away between the league and the championship for bonding/ warm weather training - whatever you want to call it.

The New York trip was pushed mainly by Cavan GAA people over in New York and was a great opportunity to get the squad together and give them something back for all the effort and commitment they have put in.

The cost was minimal to the County Board - far cheaper than a trip to Portugal or anywhere else warm in Europe would have cost and lets face there is not too much money in the coffers at the minute.

As for the jet-lag - I don't think it's going to effect them in the championship being honest about it.

There is no extra fanfare about friendlies this year - the trip to New York was always going to get a bit of attention.

As for the London game, these type of games happen every year and Buttlersbridge have a link to London through Lorcan Mulvey - that was always going to be the game. What do you want Cavan to say - sorry London we only play the big boys now

We played Division 2 teams in the league this year so we are set up there. Have you ever been at a Cavan challenge match in recent years - it's not exactly a test. We played a Dublin XV a few years ago and to be honest a training match of forwards v backs would have been a better days work. Same against Galway for Killygarry's new pitch.

These games are to make a few bob for clubs that have just shelled out on new facilities- they have nothing to do with getting ready for a championship - that's what the league is for.

Honestly, the spurious nonsense that is being thrown out about our county team and management is getting beyond laughable.

Have a wee gander over at the Football ratings thread and look at where Cavan have come from since 2012 and get behind the team.

celt262

Totally agree with you Tom.

Lads are looking for any reason to criticise Terry Hyland and the County board and its getting tiresome.

Saying we would be better off playing Meath in a challenge when we played them in a competitive game a few weeks ago makes no sense.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Totally disagree with you re the New York trip. The top counties are now going away between the league and the championship for bonding/ warm weather training - whatever you want to call it.

The New York trip was pushed mainly by Cavan GAA people over in New York and was a great opportunity to get the squad together and give them something back for all the effort and commitment they have put in.

The cost was minimal to the County Board - far cheaper than a trip to Portugal or anywhere else warm in Europe would have cost and lets face there is not too much money in the coffers at the minute.

As for the jet-lag - I don't think it's going to effect them in the championship being honest about it.

There is no extra fanfare about friendlies this year - the trip to New York was always going to get a bit of attention.

As for the London game, these type of games happen every year and Buttlersbridge have a link to London through Lorcan Mulvey - that was always going to be the game. What do you want Cavan to say - sorry London we only play the big boys now

We played Division 2 teams in the league this year so we are set up there. Have you ever been at a Cavan challenge match in recent years - it's not exactly a test. We played a Dublin XV a few years ago and to be honest a training match of forwards v backs would have been a better days work. Same against Galway for Killygarry's new pitch.

These games are to make a few bob for clubs that have just shelled out on new facilities- they have nothing to do with getting ready for a championship - that's what the league is for.

Honestly, the spurious nonsense that is being thrown out about our county team and management is getting beyond laughable.

Have a wee gander over at the Football ratings thread and look at where Cavan have come from since 2012 and get behind the team.

Where are the top counties going though? They aren't venturing off on seven hour trips that involve jet lag. They're flying like other counties did to European warm weather areas.

I'm not saying the jet-lag is going to effect them come championship but it was going to effect how well they could train. I even heard Mark McKeever mention it as a factor in his interview with Northern Sound.

I don't see why London couldn't have played a Butlersbridge XI or the like. The Galway game was last year and the Dublin game several years ago. There have been very few of these challenge games in recent years and it just seems a marked departure to me that we have four (albeit two against New York) in a short space of time this year.

I totally agree with you about where we have come from. That said, people should be able to question management also. There's a real siege mentality in Cavan now about management - you're either for or against. I'm a huge supporter of Terry Hyland but I do feel these are adequate questions.

And I'm not saying its Terry has control over it all either. For all we know this is being forced on him by the county board.From my posts you can see I was behind the team at every league game and the home McKenna Cup games and I will be again come May 24th. Surely as a fan though I'm allowed voice my opinions, negative as well as positive.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

Totally agree with you Tom.

Lads are looking for any reason to criticise Terry Hyland and the County board and its getting tiresome.

Saying we would be better off playing Meath in a challenge when we played them in a competitive game a few weeks ago makes no sense.

Even if we played them a few weeks ago competitively, we'll learn more from playing a Division 2 team in a challenge than we will from playing Division 4 sides. That was the point.

celt262

I'd imagine it was the trip to New York or stay at home I doubt if the alternative was the Algarve.

They are playing Meath in Ramor Sunday week

There could be one or two challenge games behind closed doors also.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

I'd imagine it was the trip to New York or stay at home I doubt if the alternative was the Algarve.

They are playing Meath in Ramor Sunday week

There could be one or two challenge games behind closed doors also.

Do you not think I'm aware of the Meath game in honour of Niall Dolan? It's why I mentioned Meath.

It's very rare challenges are played behind closed doors. The team play a lot of practice games amongst themselves. Previous years I was told the intensity of these was high and that is why they didn't bother with challenge games. I just wondered what the change was this year.

KeepTheFaith

How anyone can think that a trip to New York involving a training camp giving them the opportunity to spend consecutive days together as a team, talks from NFL stars that the lads have all said they found hugely inspiring, playing in Gaelic Park etc is a bad thing.. I just can't wrap my head around it. Also, it's a 7 hour non-stop flight, they are elite young men in the prime of their fitness.. Jet lag my arse.

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

Do you not think I'm aware of the Meath game in honour of Niall Dolan? It's why I mentioned Meath.

It's very rare challenges are played behind closed doors. The team play a lot of practice games amongst themselves. Previous years I was told the intensity of these was high and that is why they didn't bother with challenge games. I just wondered what the change was this year.

Yes I did think you were not aware of it.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

Yes I did think you were not aware of it.

Why did you think that? Check my posts. I was at the game in Tailteann a number of weeks ago and posted my comments on same. The Niall Dolan game was announced at half-time at that match.

It's been well publicised also. Pretty hard to imagine that I hadn't heard about it.

Maybe I didn't communicate it well but my initial point was if we are playing challenge games, Meath and other Division 2 or Division 1 sides are the correct opposition, not New York or London.

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

How anyone can think that a trip to New York involving a training camp giving them the opportunity to spend consecutive days together as a team, talks from NFL stars that the lads have all said they found hugely inspiring, playing in Gaelic Park etc is a bad thing.. I just can't wrap my head around it. Also, it's a 7 hour non-stop flight, they are elite young men in the prime of their fitness.. Jet lag my arse.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise jetlag was based on age and fitness. The siege mentality back again. Not a slightly negative word can be said. Have you asked any of the county panel about jetlag? Two have mentioned it to me. Will pm you their names if you like. I don't want to name them publically. I didn't say it was a bad thing by the way. I just said the time would have been better spent with a trip to a nearby country where several public appearances weren't required.

Tom Joad

Maybe I didn't communicate it well but my initial point was if we are playing challenge games, Meath and other Division 2 or Division 1 sides are the correct opposition, not New York or London.

Think this has been answered already but the New York trip was a once in a lifetime - it just happened to be this year.

Buttlersbridge pitch opening is a unique event - Lorcan Mulvey is a former player and has played for both Cavan and London he will captain London, Fergal Flanagan is a bridge player and will captain Cavan. Again a unique set of circumstances that happened this year.

These games are just based on circumstances and the link is clear. When pitches open, clubs use their contacts to get the best possible fixture to raise a few bob. Killygarry had Galway a few years ago, a few clubs got Dublin over the years - certainly Templeport did because of the Charlie Redmond connection.

There is no chance in any policy this year - it's a non story and you can't blame people for getting peeved when this is raised - it's just any excuse to have a pop.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise jetlag was based on age and fitness. The siege mentality back again. Not a slightly negative word can be said. Have you asked any of the county panel about jetlag? Two have mentioned it to me. Will pm you their names if you like. I don't want to name them publically. I didn't say it was a bad thing by the way. I just said the time would have been better spent with a trip to a nearby country where several public appearances weren't required.

Cutting to the chase here - I despise this "I know such and such lads on the panel" - maybe you do, maybe you don't but there is too much of this posted by anonymous people on the internet who don't have to back up what they say with any evidence. But take a look at some of the panel and what they have posted on social media about the trip. Start with Cavan GAA on facebook and see some of the pictures they have shared of Mark McKeever and family with the Mick Higgins trophy and tell me the players didn't like it. Other players have spoken about the inspirational speakers organised and how professional the whole trip was. They were treated by royalty by the massive Cavan GAA community over in New York.

On the jetlag - this is a load of crap to be blunt about it. And if any of them young lads are moaning about a bit of jetlag after a flight to New York where they were treated brilliantly (and btw they richly deserve everything they got) they need a kick in the arse! As someone else posted "jetlag me arse" - in fact I'm off to get 30 tshirts printed with that on it and hand them out in Breffni at the next training session.

The trip to New York cost next to nothing for the County Board. If the squad and officials headed off to Portugal for a forthnight for a training camp that cost the county board a packet and deprived the clubs of funding we would have something to moan about.

willabur

here here, The jetlag excuse is exactly that, an excuse. I'm sure people will probably wheel it out as a stick to beat the organisers if (which is likely to happen) Monaghan beat Cavan in round 1 of the championship. There are what? 3 weeks left to the championship? Fitness work should be done, it should be all about staying loose and getting the game plan right to take down the Farney men

rrs

The incident involving McKiernan and Wylie in the Mckenna Cup will add more spice to the game, not that it needs any. 3 players sent off in that game.

Any predictions on a team?. Cavan will have to try a target man in the FF line, Argue more then likely.

Jampip

rrs wrote: »

Any predictions on a team?. Cavan will have to try a target man in the FF line, Argue more then likely.

I'd imagine this will be there or thereabouts:

Gilly
McLoughlin
R. Dunne
K. Clarke
F. Flanagan
Damien Reilly
James McEnroe
Mossy Corr
McKiernan
Martin Reilly
Cian Mackey
Dara Mc
Niall McDermott
Martin Dunne
Ronan Flanagan

I think that'll be the 15 that take to the field. R. Flanagan and Clarke may actually be changed if they decide to use Clarke as a big man in the full forward line.

Clarke was tried in the full forward line in the last game where he got injured, I think it was the Kildare game. Could have been Down though. Was definitely in Breffni.

I think Argue is better used as an impact sub tbh.

rrs

Yeah it was the Down game, Clarke pulled the hamstring in that game and missed the rest of the League.

Turloc Mooney has been back playing with Redhills which is good to see, player with a lot of potential.

rrs

Typo: it was the Kildare game.

I'd have Farrelly in nets.

Jampip

rrs wrote: »

Typo: it was the Kildare game.

I'd have Farrelly in nets.

I'd have Farrelly in goals too but I typed out the team I think will be selected, not the team I'd select.

I hear Martin Dunne went off with a hand injury on Saturday evening. Great to see Joshua Hayes back. He's the man we need to cover the backline.

Good news about Mooney too alright. He's a big man and we need more of those.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Cutting to the chase here - I despise this "I know such and such lads on the panel" - maybe you do, maybe you don't but there is too much of this posted by anonymous people on the internet who don't have to back up what they say with any evidence. But take a look at some of the panel and what they have posted on social media about the trip. Start with Cavan GAA on facebook and see some of the pictures they have shared of Mark McKeever and family with the Mick Higgins trophy and tell me the players didn't like it. Other players have spoken about the inspirational speakers organised and how professional the whole trip was. They were treated by royalty by the massive Cavan GAA community over in New York.

On the jetlag - this is a load of crap to be blunt about it. And if any of them young lads are moaning about a bit of jetlag after a flight to New York where they were treated brilliantly (and btw they richly deserve everything they got) they need a kick in the arse! As someone else posted "jetlag me arse" - in fact I'm off to get 30 tshirts printed with that on it and hand them out in Breffni at the next training session.

The trip to New York cost next to nothing for the County Board. If the squad and officials headed off to Portugal for a forthnight for a training camp that cost the county board a packet and deprived the clubs of funding we would have something to moan about.

What year was that Templeport pitch opening game? The only reference I can find online is from 2009 and says it was a couple of years previous so near a decade ago now if that's right. I remember the game but couldn't put a year on it. It is a long time ago now.

I despise it too and that's the reason I offered to give the name of the players involved by pm. I wouldn't do it but for the fact that my view was questioned. Re the trip and the views of the panel, it's like when one of the team is asked about Seanie Johnston. They can't come out and say "no, there are members of the panel don't want him within an asses roar of training". The diplomatic answer has to be given. For example, one member of the team had to be back in work the Monday morning after flying back through the night. I'm sure others did also. But, sure feck it, these are young, fit lads, jetlag doesn't effect them. You do realise that even managers with professional soccer players take notice of jetlag and travel times? And soccer players don't have to travel back on a Sunday in a seven hour trip to be back in work for Monday morning.

willabur

I have been to the states and canada for a holiday - I flew on a saturday night back through the night and arrived in dublin around 7-10 in the am. Sunday is a long day, Monday can be tough going in work also but in all honestly in all of the times i did it (about 10 times) by tuesday/wednesday I was fine. Jet lag is not an issue.

celt262

willabur wrote: »

I have been to the states and canada for a holiday - I flew on a saturday night back through the night and arrived in dublin around 7-10 in the am. Sunday is a long day, Monday can be tough going in work also but in all honestly in all of the times i did it (about 10 times) by tuesday/wednesday I was fine. Jet lag is not an issue.

It seems to be for a few lads sitting behind a computer.

Jampip

willabur wrote: »

I have been to the states and canada for a holiday - I flew on a saturday night back through the night and arrived in dublin around 7-10 in the am. Sunday is a long day, Monday can be tough going in work also but in all honestly in all of the times i did it (about 10 times) by tuesday/wednesday I was fine. Jet lag is not an issue.

Look I think my comments are being blown out of proportion at this stage but were you over there doing hard training sessions for each day on any occasion?

It's not a stick to beat management or the county board with. It's an observation.

It appears this forum is the opposite of the other one - there you can't say anything positive, here you can't say anything negative.

celt262 wrote: »

It seems to be for a few lads sitting behind a computer.

Anything constructive to add to the discussion? How about what you think Cavan's starting 15 will be in 3 weeks?

celt262

Jampip wrote: »

Anything constructive to add to the discussion? How about what you think Cavan's starting 15 will be in 3 weeks?

Everyone knows who Hyland will play if he has everyone fit and I don't see this been any different bar possibly Galligan in goals.

Jampip

celt262 wrote: »

Everyone knows who Hyland will play if he has everyone fit and I don't see this been any different bar possibly Galligan in goals.

I think there's room for positional changes and some positions are not nailed on. What do you think the full forward line will be for example?