Would you actually prefer if the Irish language didnt exist?

ShamoBuc

KeithAFC wrote: »

Of course i did. The whole argument about the Irish language thing is people are being forced to do something which gives little awards back. The difference with maths and English and science is it is actually important in an educational sense. Hince why i think freedom of choice should be made for a subject like Irish going by some posts, doesn't seem to be the case which is a shame.

Things like maths and science and English are VITAL and you need them in todays age.

How exactly do you quantify "awards"?

"The difference with maths and English and science is it is actually important in an educational sense" - pure and utter nonsense to be fair - I found it much much easier to learn French and German having studied Irish! Plus learning Irish gave me a better sense of the history of my countries history and heritage and how certain governments did their level best to stamp out the Irish language a hundred or so years ago. That's perspective for me!

Wibbs

Ev84 wrote: »

Shame on all you Irish haters. Your great great great etc. grandparents would slap the s**t out of you all (if you're Irish)

Utter bollocks. I can trace myself in written records back many centuries in this country(and way further back genetically) and for at least 2 centuries of that time none of my great great great and possibly great grandparents spoke Irish.

* I'm a hypocrite as i know f**k all Irish myself but i am proud of our history and feel a bit guilty knowing that our language is as good as dead. Except in Gaeltacht areas of course. I hated it in school but sure who didn't...

Right there folks is the mind of the "Irish culture supporter" and his confusion. Loves the language, yet hated it in school and knows fúck all of it. Welcome to "our" native language. I will say though the loudest voices do belong to the fainne wearers and they've convinced people like Ev84 that it's "our" language, even though they can't speak it. kudos.

I will learn before i die so i can understand my ancestors in heaven They don't speak English

They might. They may speak Dutch, or old english or middle Irish or even old irish(which you wont understand) if your second name isn't smith, jones or other "anglo" names. If you're a Fitz then you better cram up on your old French. A bit of Icelandic wouldnt go amiss either.

LynHan wrote: »

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam....we are the only country in Europe that do not use it's native language everyday.

Sweet zombie Jesus in a clown car, do you not see how daft and incongruous a statement that is? "we are the only country in Europe that do not use it's native language everyday" Please read what you wrote and see the irony. Oh and the farce too. The farce is good. "We don't speak our native language". You could not make it up.

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

As relevant on a boards.IE forum as an ulster scot?:p

Why not? They're part of our history, even if they don't want to admit it. They're Irish. I hate to break it to you and indeed him.

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Would you get them christened when they are a few months old?
Would you make sure they got their communion?
Would you make sure they got their confirmation? etc

Eh no. Not unless I believed in magical thinking and all that bollocks. If they after reflection want that then I'd support them, otherwise no. In any case what deity wants the mindless child to accept him? Makes no sense. Even god has an age of consent. Sheesh this is like reeling in the years/Father Ted Ireland. Al this guff about catholic rites and Irish and culture. Have we learned nothing?

This guff reinforces what I noted many years ago at 18; Ireland, a great womb, but a lousy mother and many of ones siblings are often best avoided.

Amhran Nua

Wibbs wrote: »

Loves the language, yet hated it in school

The problem therefore is the school, not the language.

ShamoBuc

KeithAFC wrote: »

Are you judging that by posts on the internet? Learning English is very important as its a very common language. Compared to Irish which is a language dying on its ass to be fair.

You talk some utter nonsense. The rise of the Gaelscoils in Ireland would on its own totally contradict your wholly incorrect statement fella!

OPENROAD

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Not really. English teaching doesn't apparently teach much actual English, going by the standard of many leaving school. The overwhelming majority of even basic maths will be of no use to the overwhelming majority of school leavers. Multiple languages on the other hand have been shown to have positive effects on the development of the mind.

Actually maths is very important and the lack of people doing Higher Level maths is something that multi national companies have brought up in terms of Irish education.

You make an interesting point regarding English, but that is more down to the teaching rather than the importance of it.

KeithAFC

ShamoBuc wrote: »

How exactly do you quantify "awards"?

"The difference with maths and English and science is it is actually important in an educational sense" - pure and utter nonsense to be fair - I found it much much easier to learn French and German having studied Irish! Plus learning Irish gave me a better sense of the history of my countries history and heritage and how certain governments did their level best to stamp out the Irish language a hundred or so years ago. That's perspective for me!

You felt it was easier learning French and German because you learn Irish? Is there any actual evidence that this is the case with the vast majority of people who learn Irish?

I think you know what i mean by awards. Jobs.

KeithAFC

ShamoBuc wrote: »

You talk some utter nonsense. The rise of the Gaelscoils in Ireland would on its own totally contradict your wholly incorrect statement fella!

How many people can speak fluent Irish compared to English? I think it would be fair to say it is dying on its ass. Iv seen many people on here say the same thing.

Amhran Nua

OPENROAD wrote: »

Actually maths is very important

I agree maths is important, it was underlined to help make the point that Irish is important too, albeit for different reasons.

ShamoBuc

Wibbs wrote: »

This guff reinforces what I noted many years ago at 18; Ireland, a great womb, but a lousy mother and many of ones siblings are often best avoided.

This guff reinforces what I noted many years ago at 18; England, a great womb, but a lousy mother and many of ones siblings are often best avoided.

This guff reinforces what I noted many years ago at 18; Denmark, a great womb, but a lousy mother and many of ones siblings are often best avoided.

This guff reinforces what I noted many years ago at 18; Australia, a great womb, but a lousy mother and many of ones siblings are often best avoided.


Seriously.... what a pointless comment!

lmaopml

KeithAFC wrote: »

Are you judging that by posts on the internet? Learning English is very important as its a very common language. Compared to Irish which is a language dying on its ass to be fair.

No, it's not 'dying on it's ass to be fair..'

To be fair, it is people who don't excel at 'languages' that would like to see Irish 'die' on it's ass...and it will with boardsie posters like you who make 'excuses'...

I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who don't excel at math that would like to see it 'die a death' too.....and 'English' etc. etc.

Your arguement is far too simplisitic and accomodating...students excel by actually being 'challenged'...dumbed down does nothing for nobody; recognising talents without touching core subjects should be a priority and supporting those who really struggle but have staying power ( 'staying power' is perhaps the very best quality in so many ways..lol..)

Ever wonder why Irish people 'don't' do well at languages as far as our fellow Europeans are concerned; watch over the next few generations and see that change...

We only heard the rumbles of how language is important - we'll hear the roar of it very very soon and no doubt in my mind we will do 'ok' ( only out of necessity though ) Irish people only like to choose what we 'think' we're 'good' at!.....It starts with Irish and ends with Chinese..The love of language has to start somewhere..

Perhaps look at the way it's taught moreso than the language itself....afterall our counterparts in the EU speak multiple languages ( conversational ) at a very young age..

How fabulous is that?

Jonah42

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Did you do higher level maths? Lets chat about that. How often have you used your maths qualification? What about the poems of John Donne or any other English language poet?

That's a fair point. I just felt that the time and effort would have been far better spent in learning another foreign language like Spanish (how many countries speak it worldwide?)

After all, anyone who is fluent in Irish can speak even better English. What's the point?

Duckworth_Luas

Is this the Jedward thread or the weekly anti-Irish thread?

Jonah42

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I hope you didn't done honours English;)

You corrected my poor grammar mistakes. Congratulations, your a man now.

mrrepublic

Personally I love the Irish language. I left National school in 1975 and the amount of Irish I had at that time was enough to get me an honour in the higher level paper at that time. all during my second level education my grasp of the language did not improve and I often think back and wonder why was this surly five years of secondry school Irish classes along with eight years of primary school should leave allmost all of the population with a good comand of the language. Why is the system that is in place for so long such a failour? that is what needs to be examined and improved upon.

ShamoBuc

KeithAFC wrote: »

You felt it was easier learning French and German because you learn Irish? Is there any actual evidence that this is the case with the vast majority of people who learn Irish?

I think you know what i mean by awards. Jobs.

Seriously? It is well known fact and has been proven by many researches.
Learning another language ( not you 'native') early, helps you if you ever try learning another language. The dutch and germans are famous for it - they also did the research on it - google it if you want.

Wibbs

ShamoBuc wrote: »

You talk some utter nonsense. The rise of the Gaelscoils in Ireland would on its own totally contradict your wholly incorrect statement fella!

Yet the overall language usage has dropped since the 70's.

The amount of head in the sand BS around this subject is pretty much summed up thusly;

LynHan wrote:

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam....we are the only country in Europe that do not use it's native language everyday.

You really couldn't make this crap up. OK step back, if you will or can. Imagine going to France and imagine the people in France all spoke fluent Italian. A tiny percentage could speak French as a first language and a small percentage could speak it as a second language. The signs were in French and Italian, but French was the national language. Everything official had to be translated into it, but was unread by 90% of the population. You needed it for a few careers and college entry, but few were fluent in French. Confused? Eh yea

Wibbs

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Seriously.... what a pointless comment!

Don't seek to denigrate what you're incapable of understanding or relating to the subject at hand.

Ickle Magoo

I love the Irish language...granted I'm not actually Irish but you really shouldn't be wishing your national language dies.

Scotland is kind of similar but without the compulsory gaelic and that really is a language dying on it's @rse. My grandparents second language was english and folks that can speak scots gaelic are a quite literally a dying breed.

I appreciate the teaching methods are crapolla but you guys fought and died to have irish soil governed by and for the irish, why would you take any delight in your national language dying out?

Wibbs

Shít, reading back through this thread, I'd be more concerned about the dire standard of english in this country. I don't hold out much hope for Irish on the back of that.

Duckworth_Luas

Jonah42 wrote: »

That's a fair point. I just felt that the time and effort would have been far better spent in learning another foreign language like Spanish (how many countries speak it worldwide?)

After all, anyone who is fluent in Irish can speak even better English. What's the point?

So, lets say you were forced to study Castilian (duh, there's no such language as Spanish), would you now be complaining that you weren't forced to study Mandarin?

Amhran Nua

Wibbs wrote: »

Yet the overall language usage has dropped since the 70's.

Which is what happens when you've a brutal curriculum and method of education.

lmaopml

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I love the Irish language...granted I'm not actually Irish but you really shouldn't be wishing your national language dies.

Scotland is kind of similar but without the compulsory gaelic and that really is a language dying on it's @rse. My grandparents second language was english and folks that can speak scots gaelic are a quite literally a dying breed.

I appreciate the teaching methods are crapolla but you guys fought and died to have irish soil governed by and for the irish, why would you take any delight in your national language dying out?

Thank you! Perfect post..


..cause we only like to do the 'easy' path mostly...'choice' is more important than 'challenge'...as far as 'some' things are concerned - others not so much!

Gunsfortoys

Wibbs wrote: »

Shít, reading back through this thread, I'd be more concerned about the dire standard of english in this country. I don't hold out much hope for Irish on tha back of that.

:rolleyes:

Jonah42

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

So, lets say you were forced to study Castilian (duh, there's no such language as Spanish), would you now be complaining that you weren't forced to study Mandarin?

What are you on about mate? No one should be forced to study any language that they don't need/want to know. That's the point.

KeithAFC

lmaopml wrote: »

No, it's not 'dying on it's ass to be fair..'

To be fair, it is people who don't excel at 'languages' that would like to see Irish 'die' on it's ass...and it will with boardsie posters like you who make 'excuses'...

I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who don't excel at math that would like to see it 'die a death' too.....and 'English' etc. etc.

Your arguement is far too simplisitic and accomodating...students excel by actually being 'challenged'...dumbed down does nothing for nobody; recognising talents without touching core subjects should be a priority and supporting those who really struggle but have staying power ( 'staying power' is perhaps the very best quality in so many ways..lol..)

Ever wonder why Irish people 'don't' do well at languages as far as our fellow Europeans are concerned; watch over the next few generations and see that change...

We only heard the rumbles of how language is important - we'll hear the roar of it very very soon and no doubt in my mind we will do 'ok' ( only out of necessity though ) Irish people only like to choose what we 'think' we're 'good' at!.....It starts with Irish and ends with Chinese..The love of language has to start somewhere..

Perhaps look at the way it's taught moreso than the language itself....afterall our counterparts in the EU speak multiple languages ( conversational ) at a very young age..

How fabulous is that?

There is claims and accounts which say it is dying on its ass. People say it is taking a big slump on here and yet you get people saying its not? Why is that?

Wibbs

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I appreciate the teaching methods are crapolla but you guys fought and died to have irish soil governed by and for the irish, why would you take any delight in your national language dying out?

Honestly? I don't. I really don't. I do worry about the large proportion of narrow minded eejits tasked with it's preservation. I worry about the chuckies who use it as a stick to exclude. I worry about the boggers who have the chip on their shoulder. I worry about the resources being spent on it. I worry about the schizoid take on our culture and it's narrowness. As for who fought and died IM, very very few of them were native Irish speakers. That apparently makes them and non Irish speakers somehow lesser and that most of all I call bollocks on.

ShamoBuc

Wibbs wrote: »

Yet the overall language usage has dropped since the 70's.

The amount of head in the sand BS around this subject is pretty much summed up thusly;
You really couldn't make this crap up. OK step back, if you will or can. Imagine going to France and imagine the people in France all spoke fluent Italian. A tiny percentage could speak French as a first language and a small percentage could speak it as a second language. The signs were in French and Italian, but French was the national language. Everything official had to be translated into it, but was unread by 90% of the population. You needed it for a few careers and college entry, but few were fluent in French. Confused? Eh yea

"Since the 70's" - the gaelscoil movement has trebled in the last ten years - so yes to say the Irish language is on its ass is Utter Nonsense!

As long as Irish is spoken - it is alive!! The growth in the numbers of young people not only capable but proud to speak Irish is growing - and that can only be a good thing for Irish - it's been around for a long long long long time, it never went away, I don't think it ever will !
Deal with it!
Tá sé in am dul a chodladh,
go dtí an uair seo chugainn,
Oíche mhaith go léir

Iwasfrozen

Wibbs wrote: »

Shít, reading back through this thread, I'd be more concerned about the dire standard of english in this country. I don't hold out much hope for Irish on tha back of that.

lol.

Wibbs

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You should take this debating lark up as a career. Your perspicacity and wit would stand you in good stead.

ShamoBuc

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't seek to denigrate what you're incapable of understanding or relating to the subject at hand.

Cinnte dearfá go bhfuil mé in ann sé sin a thuiscint, ráiméas ceart a bhí ann - an dtuigeann tú anois?
Slán