Galway GAA discussion thread

keane2097

Starie1975 wrote: »

Players who are out.
Boyle (handstring), Coleman (Quad), Meehan (long term), Army (ankle), PJ (?), M Clancy (Honeymoon)

I was reading that thinking "who the fcuk is Army!?" for a minute

MfMan

keane2097 wrote: »

How does that compare to a full strength team? Obviously you'd be hoping P Joyce is back in there come championship and hoping against hope to see something of Michael Meehan, but besides those two how strong a team is it?

Reasonable. Neither O'Donnell or Ryan are even remotely good enough. He's gone for the U-21 midfield from last year, a brave but probably necessary call. Duane at no. 6 is interesting, could be the long term incumbent I feel. FF line looks a bit light and Nicky should be there instead of Bane. Surprised to see no Halloran from Salthill in the subs, surprised also to see Blake there, thought he was away. Looks a skilful team by and large but fairly light.

Utopia Parkway

keane2097 wrote: »

How does that compare to a full strength team? Obviously you'd be hoping P Joyce is back in there come championship and hoping against hope to see something of Michael Meehan, but besides those two how strong a team is it?

7 of last year's U-21's starting. Would probably have been 8 if Boyle was fit.

So a very young team with a lot of promise but being young they are also a bit lightweight at least until they fill out. A lot to ask to expect them to go up to Derry and win.

Danny Cummins did score 0-8 from play for Sligo IT against Tralee IT in the Sigerson during the week though. Hope he saves a few.

kraggy

How did St James do in their first year in Senior lads? I'm living abroad.

And how does the championship work these days? Is the country split in two?

aidan24326

Very encouraging performance in Derry yesterday. Early days but there were definitely some positives to take from it. Good to see Nicky Joyce back and looking lively. Still one of the best forwards we have and hopefully Mulholland can get him to commit fully this year.

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Very worrying to see on Hoganstand how uncertain it is that Meehan will ever play again.

It's not looking good for Meehan at this stage. It'll be a disaster for himself and for Galway football if he can't play again, but apparently it's not really an injury that can be fixed. All you can do is manage how you handle it, how you train etc but because he can't currently train to anything like the level required for intercounty football it may not be possible for him to get back up to the level of fitness and sharpness that he needs to be at.

Even if he did somehow make it back he might not be the same player he was as his ability to turn sharply on the ankle would be compromised I'd imagine. I guess Mulholland will just have to move onwards and upwards now with the younger lads while hoping against hope that Meehan can still play some part (even if he was only good for 20 minutes you'd still have him there)

RealityCheck

According to the indos sport twitter page, Padraic Joyce has signed on for a 15th season. Some man.

Kurt Sloane

RealityCheck wrote: »

According to the indos sport twitter page, Padraic Joyce has signed on for a 15th season. Some man.

...for one man, surely?

aidan24326

RealityCheck wrote: »

According to the indos sport twitter page, Padraic Joyce has signed on for a 15th season. Some man.

This will be his 16th season.

Hopefully he can inspire some of the younger lads around him.

Diabhal Beag

The older he gets the more I can draw comparisons between himself and Alessandro Del Piero.

MfMan

aidan24326 wrote: »

This will be his 16th season.

Hopefully he can inspire some of the younger lads around him.

Any danger he could hinder them? They got along fine last Sunday.

PJ is and has been the best Galway player of this generation and quite arguably the greatest ever forward from Connacht. However, a bit like Kieran McDonald in his closing days for Mayo, by selecting him on the team will the rest of the players feel that they have to play everything through him rather than varying it around. This can work to the detriment of the team in general.

RealityCheck

aidan24326 wrote: »

This will be his 16th season.

Hopefully he can inspire some of the younger lads around him.

Was he around in 1997? Didn't think he was but he may have been on the panel. Didn't really arrive on the scene until 1998.

MfMan wrote: »

Any danger he could hinder them? They got along fine last Sunday.

PJ is and has been the best Galway player of this generation and quite arguably the greatest ever forward from Connacht. However, a bit like Kieran McDonald in his closing days for Mayo, by selecting him on the team will the rest of the players feel that they have to play everything through him rather than varying it around. This can work to the detriment of the team in general.

I don't think he could take on that type of role. At this stage impact sub seems more likely.
You'd wonder alright would Mullholland be secretly hoping he wouldn't come back so that he doesn't feel undermined? Joyce has such an influence that he may feel they were better cutting ties, with such a young side. At the same time Joyce should be a positive influence on the younger players. They could still learn a thing or two. Should be no harm.

InchicoreDude

Was he around in 1997? Didn't think he was but he may have been on the panel. Didn't really arrive on the scene until 1998.

He was a sub. He was in college with Seamus Moynihan in Tralee at the time. A few years later, Moynihan famously said that nobody in Kerry could believe that Joyce wasnt starting for Galway in 1997 - it left them all wondering down in Kerry just how good the forwards in Galway were! In fairness, P.Joyce was never exactly the stand out player when he was younger and I think some people feel him moving to Kerry did help him along alot with his football.

I don't think he could take on that type of role. At this stage impact sub seems more likely.
You'd wonder alright would Mullholland be secretly hoping he wouldn't come back so that he doesn't feel undermined? Joyce has such an influence that he may feel they were better cutting ties, with such a young side. At the same time Joyce should be a positive influence on the younger players. They could still learn a thing or two. Should be no harm.

Wouldnt agree with that at all. He doesnt have to be an impact sub - In fact, I dont think he is particularly suited to coming on and making an impact. I am not sure exactly how fit he is these days, but I would be tempted to start him rather than use him as a sub. All depending on his form of course. Too much emphasis is placed on having an impact sub. Start your best 15 and thats it - if Joyce is good enough to start, he should start.

It is great news for Galway that Joyce is back, and he will help the young lads. I am curious when Mulholland is going to stop his experimentation and actually try to start forming a more settled side. I will look at this weeks teamsheet with interest.

Utopia Parkway

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I am curious when Mulholland is going to stop his experimentation and actually try to start forming a more settled side. I will look at this weeks teamsheet with interest.

I'd say he's barely started his experimentation let alone be near finishing it. Sure he's only had a couple of FBD games and one league match so far. It will be an ongoing process all year I imagine.

aidan24326

MfMan wrote: »

Any danger he could hinder them? They got along fine last Sunday.

PJ is and has been the best Galway player of this generation and quite arguably the greatest ever forward from Connacht. However, a bit like Kieran McDonald in his closing days for Mayo, by selecting him on the team will the rest of the players feel that they have to play everything through him rather than varying it around. This can work to the detriment of the team in general.

It's hard to know which way to look at it. With AM building a new team maybe it would be better for someone like Joyce to call it a day. That said it's to his credit that he still wants to play when it would be easier to walk away, knowing that he's very unlikely to ever again enjoy anything even close to the heady days of the O'Mahony era in a Galway jersey.

Assuming he'll be fit and sharp (usually is) he's still our best player so if he wants to play you have to pick him really. Still prbably the coolest and most reliable freetaker in the game aswell. I'd say there's one more good season in him and the younger lads should benefit from playing alongside someone like him.

Syferus

MfMan wrote: »

Any danger he could hinder them? They got along fine last Sunday.

PJ is and has been the best Galway player of this generation and quite arguably the greatest ever forward from Connacht. However, a bit like Kieran McDonald in his closing days for Mayo, by selecting him on the team will the rest of the players feel that they have to play everything through him rather than varying it around. This can work to the detriment of the team in general.

:eek:

You are the same Galway that produced Frank Stockwell, correct? I saw in a national newspaper they intimated Joyce could even be Galway's greatest footballer, which is even more ridiculous in the context of a player of Sean Purcell's quality, easily one of the greatest players of all-time.

Anyways, even recently both Michael Donnellan and Michael Meehan (?) were better players than Joyce, even if their careers were not as long-lived due to injury. I think in alot of these situations people mistake longevity for 'the best'. It's a real talent and something only truly classy players are capable of but rarely do the best players have the longest careers.

And Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo (Mickey Kearns is a real candidate for the best forward Connacht has produced) have all produced forwards I'd rate above Joyce.

Hulk Hands

Syferus wrote: »

:eek:

You are the same Galway that produced Frank Stockwell, correct? I saw in a national newspaper they intimated Joyce could even be Galway's greatest footballer, which is even more ridiculous in the context of a player of Sean Purcell's quality, easily one of the greatest players of all-time.

Anyways, even recently both Michael Donnellan and Michael Meehan (?) were better players than Joyce, even if their careers were not as long-lived due to injury. I think in alot of these situations people mistake longevity for 'the best'. It's a real talent and something only truly classy players are capable of but rarely do the best players have the longest careers.

And Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo (Mickey Kearns is a real candidate for the best forward Connacht has produced) have all produced forwards I'd rate above Joyce.

I'll forget about Purcell and Stockwell because obviously ive never seen them play. But as much as I adore Donnellan and Meehan, neither of them come close to being better than Joyce. And that has nothing to do with longevity.

Donnellan was a special phenomenon in that he combined being an athlete with being a good ball player, something which was rare in the game. He was brilliantly effective, and produced some very memorable moments. Meehan has/had the potential to be the best forward in the country. A mixture of pace, power, ability in the air, to take a man on and kick a score, made him unstoppable at times. And there was a few times. However, neither comes close to Joyce at his best.

People forget about his physical skills. He has always been a lot quicker than people gave him credit for, and had an ability to turn a man inside out in his earlier days. He has also consistently won aerial battles with bigger men.

But obviously the real magic comes from the brain. For years we've been watching Joyce do little things that wouldn't even enter 95% of players heads. Little Things like allowing the big full back to win the ball over his head uncontested, only to flick it out of his hands and into Joyces goalbound path once he's caught it. Or running towards a ball he knows will bounce, only to turn before the ball bounces and leave the defender in no man's land as the ball bounces over his head. Or giving the defender a sight of the ball coming in and letting him lunge for it, before arseing him out of the way at the last second and being left clear. His vision to pick a pass and play a ball exactly where a colleague wants is second to none.

When he plays well, everyone around plays better. And even on quiet days he makes a telling contribution, although it mightnt always be seen. Much moreso than the players you mentioned, the player that a lot of Galway people would claim to be the best they've seen is Ja Fallon. That's because he was the talisman during a bad period and has done amazing things on the field. However, once most people get past their love of Ja they admit that Joyce is the best player they have, or are ever likely to see wear maroon

Diabhal Beag

I'm too young to have seen him play but I've never heard anybody who saw him say Purcell was better than Joyce.

MfMan

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I'll forget about Purcell and Stockwell because obviously ive never seen them play. But as much as I adore Donnellan and Meehan, neither of them come close to being better than Joyce. And that has nothing to do with longevity.

Donnellan was a special phenomenon in that he combined being an athlete with being a good ball player, something which was rare in the game. He was brilliantly effective, and produced some very memorable moments. Meehan has/had the potential to be the best forward in the country. A mixture of pace, power, ability in the air, to take a man on and kick a score, made him unstoppable at times. And there was a few times. However, neither comes close to Joyce at his best.

People forget about his physical skills. He has always been a lot quicker than people gave him credit for, and had an ability to turn a man inside out in his earlier days. He has also consistently won aerial battles with bigger men.

But obviously the real magic comes from the brain. For years we've been watching Joyce do little things that wouldn't even enter 95% of players heads. Little Things like allowing the big full back to win the ball over his head uncontested, only to flick it out of his hands and into Joyces goalbound path once he's caught it. Or running towards a ball he knows will bounce, only to turn before the ball bounces and leave the defender in no man's land as the ball bounces over his head. Or giving the defender a sight of the ball coming in and letting him lunge for it, before arseing him out of the way at the last second and being left clear. His vision to pick a pass and play a ball exactly where a colleague wants is second to none.

When he plays well, everyone around plays better. And even on quiet days he makes a telling contribution, although it mightnt always be seen. Much moreso than the players you mentioned, the player that a lot of Galway people would claim to be the best they've seen is Ja Fallon. That's because he was the talisman during a bad period and has done amazing things on the field. However, once most people get past their love of Ja they admit that Joyce is the best player they have, or are ever likely to see wear maroon

Agree to all of that. Purcell was in the opinion of many all over the country the best GAA footballer ever. However, he was a playmaker as much as a forward and could play in any position on the field; in fact one of his greatest ever displays for Galway came when he played full back against Mayo in Tuam and held a succession of fine players scoreless. Stockwell was indeed a great forward, i.e. scoretaker, but only those who saw both he and Joyce could determine who was better. Again, Donnellan was IMHO the most physically gifted player of this era, but, like Purcell, was as much a playmaker as scorer and for sheer longevity, which must be taken into account, couldn't be rated above PJ. Michael Meehan, in terms of playing style, was closest to Joyce and I'm a huge fan of his. However, Joyce had a bit more pace and was simply a bit better all round than Meehan. (It's a real shame for Meehan and Galway that he came onto the scene probably 4-5 years too late.)

The point I'm making is that when you take his record, successes and ability into account, Joyce can surely stand equal with any forward Connacht has produced. (I haven't seen Micky Kearns play but he was outstanding by all reports.)

aidan24326

Syferus wrote: »

:eek:

You are the same Galway that produced Frank Stockwell, correct? I saw in a national newspaper they intimated Joyce could even be Galway's greatest footballer, which is even more ridiculous in the context of a player of Sean Purcell's quality, easily one of the greatest players of all-time.

And are you old enough to have seen Frank Stockwell play? I doubt it. And Purcell was a great footballer, not necessarily a great forward. Those old enough to remember don't rate the players from that era (including the 3 in a row bunch) as being better than what we had in the O'Mahony years (Purcell a possible exception)

Anyways, even recently both Michael Donnellan and Michael Meehan (?) were better players than Joyce, even if their careers were not as long-lived due to injury. I think in alot of these situations people mistake longevity for 'the best'. It's a real talent and something only truly classy players are capable of but rarely do the best players have the longest careers.

Donnellan was not a better player than Joyce. I played against both a number of times at club level and once for the school, and even then rated Joyce a better player. As a scoring forward Meehan at his best is at least the equal of Joyce but as an all-round footballer Joyce is better. Donnellan was a superb athlete but he had never had the vision or the accuracy of Joyce.

And Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo (Mickey Kearns is a real candidate for the best forward Connacht has produced) have all produced forwards I'd rate above Joyce.

Who are they?

You obviously haven't seen enough of Joyce if you don't rate him highly, or else you aren't a very good judge of a footballer. He has everything: vision, passing, ball-winning, pace, strength, superb accuracy, cool under pressure etc.

He is the best Galway footballer of his generation and certainly one of the best players to have pulled on a maroon jersey. Don't you think it's telling that all the Galway posters here rate him more highly than Donnellan, Fallon or Meehan? That can't be down to bias as all of them are great Galway players, and all of us have seen them play enough times for Galway and for their clubs, right up from underage, to be well placed to judge.

RealityCheck

Having thought about what I said about Joyce being an impact sub, on reflection its probably unlikely that will be the case. He's too class a player even at 34/35 to start on the bench.

Also have to agree with other posters regarding his standing in Galway football. A truly awesome all round player. No disrespect to Fallon or Donnellan but Joyce has had a greater impact. Thats not saying that had other players not been injured in key stages of their careers that things couldn't been different but on the evidence for me at least he's the best Galway player of his generation and a front runner for best ever.

Utopia Parkway

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I'm too young to have seen him play but I've never heard anybody who saw him say Purcell was better than Joyce.

My old fella said Purcell was a more rounded footballer. Who could and did play virtually all over the field. That said he thinks Padraig Joyce is Galway's 2nd greatest ever after Purcell and easily the best of the modern era. No shame in that considering Purcell is still rated by many of the older generation as one of the the greatest footballers ever.

Meehan and Donnellan were fantastic talents (both of them have had careers curtailed by injuries unfortunately) but anyone who would have them ahead of Joyce must be smoking something strong.

I can't judge the older generations but Joyce is certainly the greatest Connacht (let alone Galway) footballer I've seen in my lifetime.

Diabhal Beag

When people say Meehan was one of the best players ever it's sad to think he never made it past the QF's at senior intercounty level.

InchicoreDude

Joyce is a top player. as good as Purcell? I dont know - never saw Purcell play. But I would certainly consider him the best Galway forward in the last 20 years (This is the amount of time I have been watching Galway football). And to suggest that longevity should not be taken into account when you are discussing this kind of topic is lunacy! If anything, that the most important thing you should be looking for...

Syferus

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

When people say Meehan was one of the best players ever it's sad to think he never made it past the QF's at senior intercounty level.

Mickey Kearns only ever won a single Connacht medal. Maurice Fitz looked like never winning an All-Ireland. If anything we probably end up highlighting very good players even more when they feature in teams that don't win much. Even Joyce has 'suffered' the same fate post-2001.

As for other people saying I 'don't rate' Joyce, I'd say 'ah come off it'. I've watched him destory the hopes of my county enough times to know he's one of the best Galway forwards of all-time, but it's a big stretch to say he's the best. And it's strange that anyone would take away that I meant longevity should be discounted from the equation, it's simply a case of longevity counting for perhaps more than it should when compared with players who had shorter, more meteoric careers. Do we rate Anthony Rainbow as one of the all-time greats because he played for twenty years?

To say he's the greatest in Connacht's history takes the argument up a notch further, something I'd hold off on any players until we're a good few years removed from their careers, but people like Tony McManus, Kieran McDonald, Tom Langan and Dermot Earley (who is remembered as a midfielder but played plenty of times at 11 and was a prolific free-taker and scorer) are all players I'd rank above Joyce. Even recently, other players who were perhaps even more influential to their team (and I'd argue at least equally talented) would be someone like Frankie Dolan, though in his case his chaotic career will mean he - rightly - won't be ranked above Joyce.

RealityCheck

Team named for Louth match Sunday.

1 Adrian Faherty
2 Colin Forde
3 Finian Hanley
4 Keith Kelly
5 Garreth Bradshaw
6 Johnny Duane
7 Gary O’Donnell
8 Thomas Flynn
9 Fionntáin Ó Curraoin
10 Gary Sice
11 Paul Conroy
12 Mark Hehir
13 Michael Martin
14 Nicky Joyce
15 Danny Cummins

16 Manus Breathnach
17 Kieran McGrath
18 Tomás Fahy
19 Diarmuid Blake
20 Joe Bergin
21 Barry Cullinane
22 Cormac Bane
23 Cathal Kenny
24 Jonathan Ryan
25 Conor O’Doherty
26 Shane Maughan

Utopia Parkway

Syferus wrote: »

To say he's the greatest in Connacht's history takes the argument up a notch further, something I'd hold off on any players until we're a good few years removed from their careers, but people like Tony McManus, Kieran McDonald, Tom Langan and Dermot Earley (who is remembered as a midfielder but played plenty of times at 11 and was a prolific free-taker and scorer) are all players I'd rank above Joyce. Even recently, other players who were perhaps even more influential to their team (and I'd argue at least equally talented) would be players like Frankie Dolan, though in his case his chaotic career will mean he - rightly - won't be ranked above Joyce.

McDonald was fine talent but he wasn't as good as Joyce and I saw McDonald play in the flesh in virtually every Galway v Mayo game down through the years. He just tended to have more off-days than PJ did. When he was in the mood he could be brilliant but games could pass him by as well too easily sometimes. And again you have to look at what PJ did in the really big games and he also has the edge there.

Tom Langan I heard was a great player alright but that is certainly going way back. Even Tony McManus and Dermot Earley were a wee bit before my time. I have only very hazy memories of them. Frankie Dolan a very good player on his day alright but I very much doubt many would be sticking him up there with Joyce. Maybe no fault of his own as players that pull out big performances in All-Ireland finals and semi-finals like Joyce has done always get a little extra credit over players that maybe never had the opportunity to do it at that level.

aidan24326

There are valid arguments to be made for the likes of Dermot Early and Tony McManus. Great players. But anyone suggesting that Frankie Dolan is even fit to lsce Joyce's boots has to be smoking the funny stuff. You really are having a laugh if you're going down that road.

Cosmo Kramer

RealityCheck wrote: »

Team named for Louth match Sunday.

1 Adrian Faherty
2 Colin Forde
3 Finian Hanley
4 Keith Kelly
5 Garreth Bradshaw
6 Johnny Duane
7 Gary O’Donnell
8 Thomas Flynn
9 Fionntáin Ó Curraoin
10 Gary Sice
11 Paul Conroy
12 Mark Hehir
13 Michael Martin
14 Nicky Joyce
15 Danny Cummins

16 Manus Breathnach
17 Kieran McGrath
18 Tomás Fahy
19 Diarmuid Blake
20 Joe Bergin
21 Barry Cullinane
22 Cormac Bane
23 Cathal Kenny
24 Jonathan Ryan
25 Conor O’Doherty
26 Shane Maughan

A couple of weak links still in there but the Galway team is really starting to take shape already and look like being very strong contenders in Connacht this year.

Very difficult to compare Joyce and McDonald. Joyce wins on consistency, McDonald wins on individual moments of brilliance.

Starie1975

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

A couple of weak links still in there but the Galway team is really starting to take shape already and look like being very strong contenders in Connacht this year.

Very difficult to compare Joyce and McDonald. Joyce wins on consistency, McDonald wins on individual moments of brilliance.

Would you go away out a that! Fine McDonald was good but in no way was he better than Joyce, in consistency, in individual moments of brilliance or in choice of hair colour.

keane2097

Galway Team v Louth - 2.30pm Pearse Stadium

1 Adrian Faherty
2 Colin Forde
3 Finian Hanley
4 Keith Kelly
5 Garreth Bradshaw
6 Johnny Duane
7 Gary O'Donnell
8 Thomas Flynn
9 Fionntáin Ó Curraoin
10 Gary Sice
11 Paul Conroy
12 Mark Hehir
13 Michael Martin
14 Nicky Joyce
15 Danny Cummins

The team shows two changes from the Derry starting fifteen, Adrian Faherty replaces Manus Breathnach in goal while Gary Sice comes in for Jonathan Ryan in the half foward line. Nicky Joyce who started last week in place of Cormac Bane retains the no 14 spot.

Probably a stronger team if anything with Sice coming in?