Dark Souls

Taltos

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

I managed to complete this offline, although it nearly cost me my sanity:pac: Anyone else here manage to beat it offline?

Working my way through it. Have terrible broadband speeds so don't really think I will be able to call on others for help.
Just tackling the

4 kings

now - oh the joys of dying repeatedly.

Totally hooked - using a cross between a tank and a sorcerer - maybe I should have just focused on one but enjoying the mix for the moment.

Issac

Taltos wrote: »

Working my way through it. Have terrible broadband speeds so don't really think I will be able to call on others for help.
Just tackling the

4 kings

now - oh the joys of dying repeatedly.

Totally hooked - using a cross between a tank and a sorcerer - maybe I should have just focused on one but enjoying the mix for the moment.

There is some help available to you from a NPC near the entrance to this boss. Near the fog gate, around to the right, is the summon sign. It's sort of hidden behind a wall.

You need to be in human form and I think you needed to summon her for the Moonlight Butterfly fight too

. Good luck!

2smiggy

Taltos wrote: »

Working my way through it. Have terrible broadband speeds so don't really think I will be able to call on others for help.
Just tackling the

4 kings

now - oh the joys of dying repeatedly.

Totally hooked - using a cross between a tank and a sorcerer - maybe I should have just focused on one but enjoying the mix for the moment.

u probably tried this already but, heaviest armor , havels preferably, then 2 hand hardest hitting weapon. have to kill before the next one spawns really. i passed it 1st time , then on ng+ died about 15 times. came back from the pub drunk and passed it somehow !! passed in ng++ easy again , strange

OldManJenkin

Taltos wrote: »

Just tackling the

4 kings

now - oh the joys of dying repeatedly.

Totally hooked - using a cross between a tank and a sorcerer - maybe I should have just focused on one but enjoying the mix for the moment.

There are 2 main ways to kill the 4 Kings, one is wearing the best armour you have, 2-handing your most powerful weapon, and with a Grass Crest Shield on your back, using Havel's you should take little enough damage, and have enough poise to drink Estus even as one of them hits you, just make sure to try run out of the range of their Explosion move. You could also use Iron-Flesh, but it isn't that vital.

The other way is being nimble and rolling to dodge all their attacks, this is only really viable is you know all of their attacks, and when to roll to avoid them, and you don't really need to do this until NG+ or NG++, when their attacks do too much damage to just tank them out.

Taltos

Cheers guys - appreciate the tips.
Was avoiding Havel due to the speed decrease.
In terms of the NPC - did the other boss alone so stuck now

Will give it a shot again later - drink sounds like a good plan. Think switching between my fire sword and staff just slowing me down. Good to know some of the shortcuts to get there now.

FortuneChip

Ugh...
All this Dark Souls talk means I have to get back into it again!!!

Taltos

Cheers all - tanked right through them...

humanji

Just read this on PCGamer.com. Apparently the PC version won't be optimised, will still have all the bugs and frame-rate issues that the console version has and the reasoning behind it is that they want to get it out as soon as possible.

I suppose that at least they're being honest about it, as opposed to the other console ports you get on PC.

Producer Daisuke Uchiyama wrote:

“In terms of the PC version, the quick answer is no, [we won't be fixing the frame rate problems]. Because we wanted to get the PC version out as soon as possible,” said the producer.

“It’s more strictly a port from the console version. We haven’t been able to step up into doing any specific optimisation for PC.”

Dcully

humanji wrote: »

Just read this on PCGamer.com. Apparently the PC version won't be optimised, will still have all the bugs and frame-rate issues that the console version has and the reasoning behind it is that they want to get it out as soon as possible.

I suppose that at least they're being honest about it, as opposed to the other console ports you get on PC.

read this myself, what a fcuking joke.

Nody

Dcully wrote: »

read this myself, what a fcuking joke.

Happy to wait out a proper PC patch to fix it before I'll buy it.

Kiith

I'm all for them being honest about it, but they are basically saying they are making a **** port. And there's nothing worse then getting bad ports on the pc. I mean what's the point of buying the exact same version as the one i have on the PS3? One of the main reasons i was looking forward to it was that it would look and run better then it did on the consoles. If it still has the framerate issues, then i'm not sure i'll bother.

I'm still glad its being brought over, and more people will get a chance to play a fantastic game, but pretty pissed about this.

gizmo

What I'd be interested in hearing more about is whether the frame rate issues in Blighttown will persist regardless of the hardware thrown at it. For all we know they could only be present in hardware which is closer to the console specs than more modern gaming rigs.

On the other hand, it could simply be limitations within the engine which are related to the 30fps capping in which case working around them wouldn't be straight foward at all. I guess we'll find out more in subsequent interviews.

One thing is for sure though, if the PC port ends up as literally being the console version ported to the PC, it would still be utter madness not to play it just because of a few isolated issues of poor performance. I suppose it'll all come down to what they charge for it. Taking what's been said into consideration along with the new content being added, I'd say the £20 mark would be pretty fair but anything above that runs the risk of the game being ignored or heavily pirated.

noodler

gizmo wrote: »

One thing is for sure though, if the PC port ends up as literally being the console version ported to the PC, it would still be utter madness not to play it just because of a few isolated issues of poor performance. I suppose it'll all come down to what they charge for it. Taking what's been said into consideration along with the new content being added, I'd say the £20 mark would be pretty fair but anything above that runs the risk of the game being ignored or heavily pirated.

I completely agree with you on it still being worth everybody's time and then some.

I don't agree it should be a budget price from the off - I mean its a difficult comparison because PC games are always cheaper than console games and (maybe?) get cheaper even faster once the game is released.

Nonetheless, I think a standard RRP is perfectly legitimate - what happens after that will be down to supply and demand I guess.

Kiith

I think it should be the standard price as well, and that anyone who hasn't played it should definitely get it. I probably won't pick it up however unless the framerate issues are fixed.

gizmo

Well standard price (RRP) for a PC game is £35 so perhaps £25 would be more appropriate on reflection. While I'd love it to be full price on release, I can't see it going down well for a game released on the PC a year after the consoles and being a documented "poor" port, regardless of the additional content being added.

What I'm really getting at is I don't want a bunch of ****tards rushing out to pirate it because it's a "poor port for the money" thus re-enforcing the idea in Namco's mind that there's no money to be made in the PC market.

johnny_ultimate

I remain baffled by how cynical many gamers are being about this port (did anyone ever pretend it would be anything else?).

Of course they're not going to rebuild it from the ground. It's a niche title from a Japanese developer with no PC experience. They listened to your complaints about no Steam version, and you're getting it. You're getting new content. You're also getting the best game released on any format in years.

And yet you still moan about frame-rate?! Yes, it would be nice if you got it, but everyone who has played it on PS3 and 360 loved it to bits in spite a handful of unimportant technical shortcomings.

And people are still demanding a budget release? For a (bare minimum) fifty plus hour experience with oodles of replay value?

The game is what matters. Tech is only ever the icing on the cake. You can live without consistent 30 FPS. I did.

Dark Souls is as close to perfect as any game released in recent times. It's as simple as that. Everything else is woefully irrelevant in comparison. This is what bothers me about gaming discussion. People get so caught up in the fluff surrounding games that sometimes we forget about the actual experience of playing. Which, to me, is all that matters.

noodler

Yeah, its the best game I have played in quite a while.

I paid 45 or 40 at launch and it couldn't have been more worth it.

RolandIRL

How have I not looked more into this? Just watched a short gameplay video of the first 10 mins of the game and now I want!

Difficulty and combat wise, how would it compare with Ninja Gaiden? Any differences between platform apart from the extra content PC is getting?

Dcully

Ill be buying it regardless.

ChubbyHubby

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I remain baffled by how cynical many gamers are being about this port (did anyone ever pretend it would be anything else?).

Why are you baffled? Here's a well know fun fact: a lot of gamers are just spoilt brats with an inflated sense of entitlement. I am baffled by how there isn't a petition somewhere to demand Dark Souls to run at 60fps on a high end pc. :P

Kiith

How does wanting a good port mean we have an inflated sense of entitlement?

noodler

Kiith wrote: »

How does wanting a good port mean we have an inflated sense of entitlement?

If it runs as it did on the consoles then it will be a good port.

Kiith

Not sure i'd agree with that to be honest. I get what you mean, but they've had over a year to see things they might have done wrong, and have better hardware to work with now. I'm not talking massive changes, but it can't be that hard to include some improvements*, can it?

* i've no knowledge of game dev, so maybe it can

2smiggy

Kiith wrote: »

Not sure i'd agree with that to be honest. I get what you mean, but they've had over a year to see things they might have done wrong, and have better hardware to work with now. I'm not talking massive changes, but it can't be that hard to include some improvements*, can it?

* i've no knowledge of game dev, so maybe it can

From Software have said they have little experience developing games for the PC so I think that is why it's a straight port. As for having over a year I'd imagine only when the PC community seen how good a game it was and they started asking for a PC version in great numbers did they start to think of even bringing it to the PC. The PC version is getting the extra content free, and months before the console players ! not bad IMO.

All in all I think the PC community is getting alot ! there was no need for them to develop it for the PC. I doubt they will make a huge amount of money off it considering the amount of piracy on the PC. They could just have concentrated on getting a few DLC packages for the console players. Anyone one on the consoles who played the game and enjoyed it would no doubt buy it.

humanji

noodler wrote: »

If it runs as it did on the consoles then it will be a good port.

The problem being that they've no experience with PC games and are rushing out the port. Hopefully these fears will be unfounded, but there's plenty of companies with PC experience and lots of time and money who have fecked up the porting of games to PC.

Time will tell, I guess.

ChubbyHubby

2smiggy wrote: »

All in all I think the PC community is getting alot ! there was no need for them to develop it for the PC. I doubt they will make a huge amount of money off it considering the amount of piracy on the PC. They could just have concentrated on getting a few DLC packages for the console players. Anyone one on the consoles who played the game and enjoyed it would no doubt buy it.

I think the best From Software can hope for is to recoup the investment from the port and see it as a viable platform for future games. People will pirate it if they can and From Software can't depend on enough fans to buy it a second time for the PC for them to make a huge investment on a port.

Also, PC gamers will overlook this if there's no mouse and keyboard support and they will rant about it and then more entitlement bs we will all hear about. I just don't see many copied being sold on the PC despite how good it is.

The best fans can hope for, if they want to buy it a second time, is that the better hardware on a PC will make the game run smoother in certain areas without any deliberate investment in PC optimisation.

johnny_ultimate

humanji wrote: »

The problem being that they've no experience with PC games and are rushing out the port. Hopefully these fears will be unfounded, but there's plenty of companies with PC experience and lots of time and money who have fecked up the porting of games to PC.

Time will tell, I guess.

It's fully understandable why they're rushing it out though. As this thread has made abundantly clear, many are unwilling to pay full retail price if there's a perceived gap between console and PC release. So not only are From and Namco eager to ride the hype wave that has of yet not fully receded, but they're also hoping that their PC market will have the enthusiasm to support the game on release, rather than wait for a Steam sale (although I fully agree people who are eager to double dip are fully entitled to wait for discounts).

In my eyes, it's a lose lose situation for Namco in many ways. They can take their time and rebuild a highly optimised version for PC, and then have no-one pay the price it deserves because consoles got it first. Or they can release it ASAP in its already stable, extremely playable condition and have no-one pay full price (which is still going to be ten-twenty euro cheaper than any of us fans paid at console launch, and felt it was worth every cent and then some) because it supposedly isn't optimised.

As I'm sure everyone would agree, an ideal world would see uber high-quality PC ports. This is not an ideal world. Not by a longshot. The PC market is such a ludicrously fickle entity, full of demanding gamers, absurd levels of piracy and unrealistic expectations, that I often wonder why many developers / publishers even bother.

Kiith

Alan Wake recently showed that pc gamers are perfectly willing to pay for well made ports, even after a long wait from the console release. They made an excellent port, with some huge improvements to the original game. Even with piracy, it recouped the dev costs in 48 hours.

Now i know Alan Wake was originally a pc game, and was probably a lot easier to port over. And Dark Souls a totally different situation, but i'm sure that if they put some effort into it, they'd be able to fix these issues. Coming out and saying it's not going to be ported well, and then hoping people will buy it anyway is not exactly the best way to sell your game.

As i said earlier, i'm delighted that its coming to the pc as it's a fantastic game, which everyone should play. I had just hoped that they would fix some of the issues that were in the original release.

gizmo

Kiith wrote: »

Alan Wake recently showed that pc gamers are perfectly willing to pay for well made ports, even after a long wait from the console release. They made an excellent port, with some huge improvements to the original game. Even with piracy, it recouped the dev costs in 48 hours.

Alan Wake was, as I suggested earlier, sold at a decent discount over full price retail games though. It's currently sitting at £26.99 on Steam for the edition which includes the bonus content.

Kiith wrote: »

Now i know Alan Wake was originally a pc game, and was probably a lot easier to port over. And Dark Souls a totally different situation, but i'm sure that if they put some effort into it, they'd be able to fix these issues. Coming out and saying it's not going to be ported well, and then hoping people will buy it anyway is not exactly the best way to sell your game.

They haven't said it's not going to be ported well, they said it wouldn't be optimized for the PC, there's a pretty significant difference there.

I should say I am disappointed at the news but as others have said, even in its current state it's still an utterly fantastic game so shouldn't be avoided just because it doesn't play to the PCs strengths.

penev10

Kiith wrote: »

Coming out and saying it's not going to be ported well,

Wouldn't that suggest that it's worse than the console versions? I thought it was going to be a straight port no?

I can see where both sides are coming from on this. Obviously, Namco and From Software made a judgement call on the cost/benefit analysis and decided what they decided.