Haven't touched a drop in...

Amazingfun

I know plenty of people who take Step 2 by using AA itself or nature or anything really as a power greater than themselves.
No 'dealbreakers' at all!

All that matters is being willing/ honest and open-minded. From the above it seems you're just fine in that department.
You'll hear all kinds of people share their experience with the program at meetings....just sit back/relax and enjoy the journey

GerB40

Amazingfun wrote: »

I know plenty of people who take Step 2 by using AA itself or nature or anything really as a power greater than themselves.
No 'dealbreakers' at all!

All that matters is being willing/ honest and open-minded. From the above it seems you're just fine in that department.
You'll hear all kinds of people share their experience with the program at meetings....just sit back/relax and enjoy the journey

Well I suppose my higher power in every day life would be a mix of science, nature, and (this might sound weird) acceptance of my own mortality.. The latter being the knowledge that this life I'm living now is the only one I'll ever have and as such, is too precious to squander.

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

Would I have to partake in the prayer? I'd be lying to myself as an atheist if I prayed to a higher power I don't believe in. It's not a deal breaker but I'd rather be honest to myself and to everyone else there..

Edit: I just found this and was wondering what people who attend AA think of this as a sort solution to my dilemma.

For the atheist, those twelve steps on the wall and in the book represent four things in essence:

A recognition that you haven’t been able get loaded in anything approaching moderation and without consistently creating havoc.
A surrender to the fact that this is a kind of law of nature for you, and that fighting it has been insane.
A willingness to let reality be the guide of your actions henceforth in this and in everything else.
A commitment to try and stop hurting yourself or others, and to help where you can.

Not a deal breaker at all Ger, AA in any country is a cross section of that country , so in Ireland most either retain or revert to their original religion.
Then there is a much smaller but sizable enough group who believe in a world spirit or buddism or some sort of spiritual dimension.

The their is an even smaller group who are atheists who believe in science or the combined power of the group or what ever, but there is a spiritual dimension to their lives .

There is the old joke in London where a guy believed in the 36 bus as a Higher Power because it could pass every pub on the Edgeware Road ,Kilburn High Street and Cricklewood on a Fridat night and he couldn't.

I found the main thing is to keep an open mind, you never know where the evidence might lead you .

johnobertie2

Well I've quit recently, about a month now. My second time around .
Being a parent simplifies the decision making part anyhow.
I was also conscious of my own mortality too
The long term outlook for addicts and alcoholics isn't good. A lot of us run into serious health issues in our 50s or 60s if we make it that far
A lot of really smart people quit if they can
Not you sure about AA though, I didn't care for it much before

GerB40

I did it. I went to an AA meeting tonight. I feel fantastic after it. To hear everyone else's stories made me feel like mine is going to be pretty lame. Most of the worst things I've done I can't remember, I've been told what I did so maybe I should talk to my friends and jot them down..

My introduction was "My name is Ger, I'm 6 months sober and I'm an addict. I'm hear to listen and learn". It felt a bit lame to me but the reception I got put a smile on my nervous face..

I felt so welcome and I'm looking forward to the next meeting..

My nonexistent self esteem has increased and for the first time in years I feel genuinely optimistic about my future.

I'm under no illusion that a few more meetings and I'll be fixed. I'm in this for the long term and that's that. Thanks boardsies, ye convinced me to go....

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

I did it. I went to an AA meeting tonight. I feel fantastic after it. To hear everyone else's stories made me feel like mine is going to be pretty lame. Most of the worst things I've done I can't remember, I've been told what I did so maybe I should talk to my friends and jot them down..

My introduction was "My name is Ger, I'm 6 months sober and I'm an addict. I'm hear to listen and learn". It felt a bit lame to me but the reception I got put a smile on my nervous face..

I felt so welcome and I'm looking forward to the next meeting..

My nonexistent self esteem has increased and for the first time in years I feel genuinely optimistic about my future.

I'm under no illusion that a few more meetings and I'll be fixed. I'm in this for the long term and that's that. Thanks boardsies, ye convinced me to go....

Remember Ger, you don't even have to say that much - ''I'm Ger , I'll pass'' did me for 6 months

GerB40

marienbad wrote: »

Remember Ger, you don't even have to say that much - ''I'm Ger , I'll pass'' did me for 6 months

Your name is Ger too?☺

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

Your name is Ger too?☺

No , but for the purposes of an anonymous forum about an anonymous organisation it will do !:)

GerB40

marienbad wrote: »

No , but for the purposes of an anonymous forum about an anonymous organisation it will do !:)

Hmm good point.. I probably should've thought about using a hilarious/ bizzare name before joining this thread...

Ah shur fúck it, my name is Ger and I ain't plannin on changing that anytime soon...

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

Hmm good point.. I probably should've thought about using a hilarious/ bizzare name before joining this thread...

Ah shur fúck it, my name is Ger and I ain't plannin on changing that anytime soon...

I don't think that makes you any less anonymous than you already were

Kunkka

GerB40 wrote: »

I did it. I went to an AA meeting tonight. I feel fantastic after it. To hear everyone else's stories made me feel like mine is going to be pretty lame. Most of the worst things I've done I can't remember, I've been told what I did so maybe I should talk to my friends and jot them down..

My introduction was "My name is Ger, I'm 6 months sober and I'm an addict. I'm hear to listen and learn". It felt a bit lame to me but the reception I got put a smile on my nervous face..

I felt so welcome and I'm looking forward to the next meeting..

My nonexistent self esteem has increased and for the first time in years I feel genuinely optimistic about my future.

I'm under no illusion that a few more meetings and I'll be fixed. I'm in this for the long term and that's that. Thanks boardsies, ye convinced me to go....

Great stuff pal.

Just remember everyone's own story is their worst, never compare in that way. There is a reason you've wanted to quit alcohol and other substances so never belittle yourself when you hear the more extreme stuff. Just know you have been pushed to your crossroads when you had to make a decision. AA changed my life in an unbelievable way. Everything is better it is a therapy that works because of the common goal of the people in the room.

Just keep going back Ger and try to be as honest as you can be when you share. The first few months of it can be tough as you will share stuff that has brought you to where you are but it is all 100% worth it. With pain comes progress, serious life changing progress. Isn't it better than just numbing the pain and having to deal with it when we sober up with the situation 10 times worse? Best of luck

GerB40

Kunkka wrote: »

Great stuff pal.

Just remember everyone's own story is their worst, never compare in that way. There is a reason you've wanted to quit alcohol and other substances so never belittle yourself when you hear the more extreme stuff. Just know you have been pushed to your crossroads when you had to make a decision. AA changed my life in an unbelievable way. Everything is better it is a therapy that works because of the common goal of the people in the room.

Just keep going back Ger and try to be as honest as you can be when you share. The first few months of it can be tough as you will share stuff that has brought you to where you are but it is all 100% worth it. With pain comes progress, serious life changing progress. Isn't it better than just numbing the pain and having to deal with it when we sober up with the situation 10 times worse? Best of luck

I had a big reply written but I deleted it because it couldn't sufficiently portray how helpful, reassuring and beautiful your post was. So I'll leave it short and simple. Thank you....

GerB40

I was just wondering, is it right or wrong to take two or three tablets before going to a meeting? My doc says I'm gone beyond the point of going cold turkey on em (my doc is sorting something out with my pharmacist to wean my self off em) and two or three don't get me stoned, they get me normal and without them the sickness of tablet withdrawals WILL prevent me from attending further meetings. Well at least I get my tab addiction sorted..

I understand how contentious this is so if you disagree, please don't sugar coat it. You're all legends in my eyes so a bit of tough love I can manage..

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

I was just wondering, is it right or wrong to take two or three tablets before going to a meeting? My doc says I'm gone beyond the point of going cold turkey on em (my doc is sorting something out with my pharmacist to wean my self off em) and two or three don't get me stoned, they get me normal and without them the sickness of tablet withdrawals WILL prevent me from attending further meetings. Well at least I get my tab addiction sorted..

I understand how contentious this is so if you disagree, please don't sugar coat it. You're all legends in my eyes so a bit of tough love I can manage..

I have no personal experience in this area Ger as I was only ever addicted to Alcohol and cigarettes . All I would say is be totally open with your doctor and follow his advice .

I have helped out people on harder drugs ,but I don't suppose that is the same .

GerB40

marienbad wrote: »

I have no personal experience in this area Ger as I was only ever addicted to Alcohol and cigarettes . All I would say is be totally open with your doctor and follow his advice .

I have helped out people on harder drugs ,but I don't suppose that is the same .

Well thanks anyway. I knew this would be a tricky one coz when I say I'm sober for however long at a meeting, am I lying because I have tablets down me? Tablets, by the way, my doc is more than likely gonna make me take due to the weaning process... Hmm, I'm fairly conflicted.

Doublin

GerB40 wrote: »

Well thanks anyway. I knew this would be a tricky one coz when I say I'm sober for however long at a meeting, am I lying because I have tablets down me? Tablets, by the way, my doc is more than likely gonna make me take due to the weaning process... Hmm, I'm fairly conflicted.

Are you talking detox drugs like Librium, or tablets for something else? If the former then continue the course, think it's normally around a 10 day course while still going to AA. It's still you being sober & most would have gone through a similar course so will be understanding. All it does is lower things like the shakes, sweats, anxiety, jumpiness etc. Plus you will be less anxious, worrying about yourself and be able to take in more of the meeting.

If the tablets are for something else, then take the doctors advice..

marienbad

GerB40 wrote: »

Well thanks anyway. I knew this would be a tricky one coz when I say I'm sober for however long at a meeting, am I lying because I have tablets down me? Tablets, by the way, my doc is more than likely gonna make me take due to the weaning process... Hmm, I'm fairly conflicted.

Ger, it is early days yet so I would be less hung up on definitions when at meetings. If you are uncomfortable talking about taking the tablets or saying you are taking them then don't mention it.

I know most people go '' I am Bill or Bob or Mary and I am an alcoholic '', but you don't have to say that or anything you don't want to , a friend of mine just said ''My name is x and I am grateful to have this place to come to tonight '' and then he would say it was a good day and why or a bad day and why or I'll just listen tonight . And he was like that for the best part of a year.

The main thing is to keep coming , listen and absorb what you can and grow at your own pace . It is a place you will always be welcome and never judged .

GerB40

Doublin wrote: »

Are you talking detox drugs like Librium, or tablets for something else? If the former then continue the course, think it's normally around a 10 day course while still going to AA. It's still you being sober & most would have gone through a similar course so will be understanding. All it does is lower things like the shakes, sweats, anxiety, jumpiness etc. Plus you will be less anxious, worrying about yourself and be able to take in more of the meeting.

If the tablets are for something else, then take the doctors advice..

Doc's advice it is.. I can't wait to tell her how far I've come since we spoke last. But as a certain political party (who's name I won't utter here) said "A lot done, a lot more to do"....

GerB40

marienbad wrote: »

Ger, it is early days yet so I would be less hung up on definitions when at meetings. If you are uncomfortable talking about taking the tablets or saying you are taking them then don't mention it.

I know most people go '' I am Bill or Bob or Mary and I am an alcoholic '', but you don't have to say that or anything you don't want to , a friend of mine just said ''My name is x and I am grateful to have this place to come to tonight '' and then he would say it was a good day and why or a bad day and why or I'll just listen tonight . And he was like that for the best part of a year.

The main thing is to keep coming , listen and absorb what you can and grow at your own pace . It is a place you will always be welcome and never judged .

Well that's after taking a load off my mind. I was worried I'd be a hypocrite but seriously, your post makes me realise I've nothing to worry about..

Amazingfun

GerB40 wrote: »

Doc's advice it is.. I can't wait to tell her how far I've come since we spoke last. But as a certain political party (who's name I won't utter here) said "A lot done, a lot more to do"....

Ger? My view is that AA's business is alcohol. Anything else folks are dealing with can be looked at -a day at a time. Sober in AA first and foremost means not drinking alcohol for the rest of our lives.

You're not lying and trying to hide pill usage, which is brilliant. Our "essentials" in AA are Honesty-Openmindedness-Willingness, three things you appear to have in spades.
Just my opinion but even if you needed pills of one variety or another for a month or a year or two more....so be it. It doesn't make you any less "sober" than anyone else and it's not anything to be stressing yourself about, and certainly not at this early stage. It is no one's business except your own and your doctor's really although we're of course always here to listen if you need to talk about it.Like others have wisely cautioned it's good policy to take your doctor's advice on board and keep your focus on the brilliant progress you're making.

One thing I can't stress enough is that AA is not a contest for "most perfect alkie of the day" lol. :P Every single one of us is where we're at,doing the best we can, and when you are ready to put the pills away you will do so.
I am betting it won't be the terrible struggle you may imagine. I've experienced more than one thing being "lifted"-simply removed, much as my desire to drink was, and it's quite an experience.

So again: enjoy the journey, you're doing great

Ed The Equalizer

GerB40 wrote: »

I was just wondering, is it right or wrong to take two or three tablets before going to a meeting? My doc says I'm gone beyond the point of going cold turkey on em (my doc is sorting something out with my pharmacist to wean my self off em) and two or three don't get me stoned, they get me normal and without them the sickness of tablet withdrawals WILL prevent me from attending further meetings. Well at least I get my tab addiction sorted..

I understand how contentious this is so if you disagree, please don't sugar coat it. You're all legends in my eyes so a bit of tough love I can manage..

All I'd say is don't ever listen to anyone in AA if they tell you to stop taking your meds (lots of stories out there of when this happened and went badly). What you're taking is between you and your doctor, and he's more qualified to help you off them in a safe way.

Allister_M

Just a quick question as to the twelve steps - has anyone had a "religious experience" or at least a spiritual awakening or any experiences which might be deemed insane or ethereal as opposed to ephemeral.

I saw a good movie the other day - "A walk amongst the tombstones" - which goes through the twelve steps towards the end and a boy comes into this guys life to "help" him from being an alone recovering alcoholic - has anything other "coincidental" or life changing happened to anyone from their experience in the twelve steps programme ?

marienbad

Allister_M wrote: »

Just a quick question as to the twelve steps - has anyone had a "religious experience" or at least a spiritual awakening or any experiences which might be deemed insane or ethereal as opposed to ephemeral.

I saw a good movie the other day - "A walk amongst the tombstones" - which goes through the twelve steps towards the end and a boy comes into this guys life to "help" him from being an alone recovering alcoholic - has anything other "coincidental" or life changing happened to anyone from their experience in the twelve steps programme ?

Yeah I got my whole life back .

Amazingfun

Allister_M wrote: »

Just a quick question as to the twelve steps - has anyone had a "religious experience" or at least a spiritual awakening or any experiences which might be deemed insane or ethereal as opposed to ephemeral.

I saw a good movie the other day - "A walk amongst the tombstones" - which goes through the twelve steps towards the end and a boy comes into this guys life to "help" him from being an alone recovering alcoholic - has anything other "coincidental" or life changing happened to anyone from their experience in the twelve steps programme ?

Many people share a lot of beautiful stuff that has happened during the course of their 12 step journey. I had a pretty powerful one (spiritual experience) during the amends phase (steps 8 and 9). It's these kinds of *buzzes* that keeps us from getting bored I think haha.....;)

Allister_M

marienbad wrote: »

Yeah I got my whole life back .

How do you mean - outside of the obvious stuff like not going into work hungover and tired or offending people and making yourself look stupid - outside of this stuff - how did it change you the person for the first time in your life ?

Allister_M

Amazingfun wrote: »

Many people share a lot of beautiful stuff that has happened during the course of their 12 step journey. I had a pretty powerful one (spiritual experience) during the amends phase (steps 8 and 9). It's these kinds of *buzzes* that keeps us from getting bored I think haha.....;)

Yeah I heard people say they woke in the mornings and felt this overwhelming warmth and "buzzing" or sense of feeling loved for the first time in their lives. Is that what you mean - being able to love and be loved even on a friend to friend basis ?

Amazingfun

Allister_M wrote: »

Yeah I heard people say they woke in the mornings and felt this overwhelming warmth and "buzzing" or sense of feeling loved for the first time in their lives. Is that what you mean - being able to love and be loved even on a friend to friend basis ?

Not really. It's kind of hard to explain really unless you've experienced this kind of thing yourself.

Like....I lived most of my life drinking/trying to stop drinking/thinking of ways to control my drinking (switching to beer or wine/drinking only on weekends/drinking only on days that end with "Y" lol) etc....and all of them ended in total failure and demoralization.

Then I get to AA and they tell me these silly sounding twelve steps will solve my problem. And I think it's ridiculous but because I've reached rock bottom (again) and can see no other option as I've tried everything I know and failed.....I do it.
And to my total surprise it works-exactly the way they said it would.

So the exact spiritual experience I refer to in my post above was embedded within a specific situation that happened between a former friend and I during the amends step (Step 9). In that moment I witnessed the healing and power that was promised come into full fruition. Not in some vague way either it was specific and tangible.
The reason it was so powerful for me was that I did not want to do it at all. I did not want to go and see this person. I thought it was going to be a kind of "scarlet letter moment"-me having to grovel and cringe my way through a host of "I'm sorrys" lol. But nothing of the sort occurred and in fact it was one of the most beautiful moments I'd ever shared with this person. It transformed both of our paths from that moment onward.
I made that amend a few months into my sobriety and am now just shy of 13 years of continuous contented sobriety.

It works

marienbad

Allister_M wrote: »

How do you mean - outside of the obvious stuff like not going into work hungover and tired or offending people and making yourself look stupid - outside of this stuff - how did it change you the person for the first time in your life ?

My whole life revolved around drink , even when I wasn't drinking I was consumed with it, either recovering from it , trying to raise money for it ,lying to conceal it.

AA put an end to all that, it gave and still gives me the tools to live a contented sober life .

If there was any one moment in my life it was the night I stopped drinking. It was as if for a instant I was give a moment of absolute clarity and I saw myself for exactly what I had become - no justifications, no false illusions- and it wasn't pretty . But I also experienced the absolute certainty that it need not be this way.

For the first time in years I left a place before closing time and went to AA the following night and I have never looked back.

A long time ago now, but I remember it like yesterday.

quinrea01

marienbad wrote: »

My whole life revolved around drink , even when I wasn't drinking I was consumed with it, either recovering from it , trying to raise money for it ,lying to conceal it.

AA put an end to all that, it gave and still gives me the tools to live a contented sober life .

If there was any one moment in my life it was the night I stopped drinking. It was as if for a instant I was give a moment of absolute clarity and I saw myself for exactly what I had become - no justifications, no false illusions- and it wasn't pretty . But I also experienced the absolute certainty that it need not be this way.

For the first time in years I left a place before closing time and went to AA the following night and I have never looked back.

A long time ago now, but I remember it like yesterday.

And there it is in a nutshell. The perfect description of a person experiencing that moment of clarity and self-revelation. Thank you Marienbad for that honest and candid post. Not much more to be said here, you've said it all. Well done and best wishes to all.

hubba

Three and a half years this week and I've no regrets whatsoever, life alcohol free is incomparable to the anxiety ridden, half life of booze I had before.:D

On my wishlist is that more people would see the light, as it were, and that Irish people in general would wake up to the fools gold that booze is. For some reason, even the most enlightened and intelligent remain in denial about it. And I guess that as long as alcohol sales generate great returns to the exchequer, there will be no government programmes to improve the situation.