Amir Khan v Paul McCloskey - Manchester, April 16

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

There is not a great list to choose from really. Should Khan beat Bradley, assuming he gets past Paul, then would you say he's top dog?

Bradley is considered by many to be the best 140 lb fighter in the world.

gene_tunney

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

Khan is definitely top 5, and I'm no Khan fan.

In fact, he's probably number 1. He beat Maidana, Alexander is nothing special, Ortiz has proven to be overrated and Bradley's feather fists are perfect for Khan.

Boooourns

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

What? Seriously what? Not even in the top 5? What?

I can't wait to see this list.

Fall_Guy

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

There is no way anyone could place Kahn outside the top 5 fighters currently active at 140lbs and expect people to believe that they don't have blinkers on. He's arguably the best of the bunch at light welter (not a hugely stacked division at the moment to be fair), and I think most would agree that he's no worse than top 3. But to not have him in the top 5 goes a long way toward invalidating your thoughts on this fight, in my opinion. You are clearly biased against him, or are vastly over-rating the other top fighters in the division at the moment.

Jayob10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

ah c'mon thats crazy!

Khan is comfortably top 3, and has a good case to be considered number 1 in the division when he is focused on the task at hand.

Personally i'm looking forward to seeing him step up to Welterweight and beyond in the future.

Jayob10

Boooourns wrote: »

Excellent, it was an awful PPV event anyway. The interest is just not there in Britain for Khan just yet especially against an opponent like Paul.
Hope Paul is getting good money for this now.

Have to say fair play to Sky on this. The undercard just isn't strong enough. I think Khan will be regretting picking McCloskey now, he is taking a £1million pay cut for this, only taking him 250k now.

On the downside, its apparently going to be on Sky Sports 3, which not everyone has, but its better than forking out I suppose.

Big Ears

celtictiger32 wrote: »

honestly, im not sure id have to have a long think about that. but khan wouldnt be in there anyway..

With all due respect celtictiger that's insane. To not have Khan top 5 at the weight is downright ridiculous and either indicative that you don't know much about the weight-class or that you have a severe dislike of Khan.

IMO having Khan anywhere lower than #2 at the is just plain wrong.
My own top 5 would be:
1.Bradley
2.Khan
3.Maidana
4.Kotelnik
5.Alexander(who I have behind Kotelnik as I think he clearly lost to him)

Presumely if you were to make a top 5 with Khan not in it, you'd also omit Maidana and Kotelnik ?

walshb

Can anyone imagine Kotelnik even being a contender in
the good old days? Make that all the top 5.
I would omit Khan even, just for the fact that
the chin is still in doubt. BUT, he can show me if he is great
if he can keep winning over the next few years.

celtictiger32

look i know a lot of my argument is probably heart over head and khan is the favourite but i do honestly believe both khan is being overrated here and mc closkey under rated. one of the op asked would he be higher rated than maidana etc. not necessarily ive seen many times where the better boxer has lost, im not coming out there and saying straight off that maidana is better or worse than khan but it has happened. if he sticks around winning the fights put up to him i will hold my hands up and say i got it wrong but imo he wont be there for much longer

jonnyhips

celtictiger32 wrote: »

look i know a lot of my argument is probably heart over head and khan is the favourite but i do honestly believe both khan is being overrated here and mc closkey under rated. one of the op asked would he be higher rated than maidana etc. not necessarily ive seen many times where the better boxer has lost, im not coming out there and saying straight off that maidana is better or worse than khan but it has happened. if he sticks around winning the fights put up to him i will hold my hands up and say i got it wrong but imo he wont be there for much longer

I think McCloskey is certainly be underestimated by Team Khan, John Breen was saying today that he thinks Khan will come out and try and stop Paul in the first two rounds. He also thinks Khan is looking beyong Dudey

celtictiger32

jonnyhips wrote: »

I think McCloskey is certainly be underestimated by Team Khan, John Breen was saying today that he thinks Khan will come out and try and stop Paul in the first two rounds. He also thinks Khan is looking beyong Dudey

and i do hope he underestimates him. as i said my heart is saying mc closkey and my head is hopeful. but if you want to accuse anybody of wearing blinkers its the likes of the british media etc every time one of their own gets a sniff of the big time their the best thing since sliced bread and everyone else is a waste of a thought and khan is an example of that. they and team khan are definately looking beyond mc closkey.and i hope they dismiss him the same way steve collins was dismissed when facing eubank.

sxt

Mcloskey is going to summon the spirit of Naz, and hit him with some wicked uppercuts to the temple, and have Khan down four times in the first round. Easy

Johner

Bradley is number one in the division imo, Khan second with Maidana third.

walshb

The bookies are offering 14/1 on Khan in rd 1.

Khan, being an aggressive and fast starter, makes this tempting

Paul may just not realise or expect the type of speed he is being
met with here. Also, that body could be open to some heavy and fast shots.

davegrohl48

1. Strength. I think current Mccloskey overpowers previous Mccloskey hands down. It's not really the same athlete. A big payday and World title focus has allowed him employ a full time strength coach. You can see from photos on his own website the difference in his physique. I wouldn't be suprised if Mccloskey had previously been concentrating on long runs and sparring/bag work only for his fitness. His camp has been full of excellent top notch strength work, sledgehammers, tyre flips, sled runs, short sprints. So I think fitness wise Mccloskey has moved himself well up the ladder. He should be able to hit harder.
2. Endurance. Having more muscle to carry around less deadweight, I just think Mccloskey comes past round five much more mobile and zippy than previous. His own team have admitted he was carrying a wee bit of deadweight versus Barry Morrison.
3. General build and hittability.
Mccloskey is squatter than Khan and should be able to do damage on the inside. Personally I would favour jab up top and then hard rights or lefts to the torso. Khan presents a long slim torso for a 140lber. If you ever look at Khan most of his weight is up top. He has the upper body of a big welterweight. But for inside fighting tis short arms and squat legs you need really to bully someone backwards and hit hard over short distances.
4. The one punch factor.
While not knowing every Mccloskey fight, I'v never seen him rocked (cut once) but I'v seen him take reasonable punches and not be affected. At the same time against admittedly poorer opposition than Khan he usually lands hard unorthodox uppercutty, hookey shots.
5. Kotelnik/Maidana.
I honestly think these two fighters came forward in much straighter lines with less head movement than Mccloskey. They were easier hit. Mccloskey has showboated in a lot of his fights with his hands down. I can't see him doing that here. I think Khan will have to come on inside as at best from distance he will land his jab, but if it lands on Mccloskeys gloves, or Mccloskeys chin after he's already done his usual head retract (he does that alot) then it won't be having much effect.

Overall summary
Khan has to come inside getting tired from jab circling the ring and retreating. Mccloskey the squatter, stronger fighter with a better chin wins by TKO or is robbed of a points decision from a battered Khan who never really gets Mccloskey in trouble. I'm just hoping for a Mccloskey TKO but I'v a horrible feeling it could be the latter. If Khan was unbeatable (I do think he's world class) he would have gotten the straight ahead Kotelnik out of there easier. So I don't see him landing alot of punishment and what he does land Mccloskey will prove to have the strength to take.

Final crazy point to debate.
Looking at the match up photos, I'd never noticed how Desperate Dan long Khans chin is. Lovely uppercut target. Yes I am reading too much into everything, haha.

mrgardener

walshb wrote: »

The bookies are offering 14/1 on Khan in rd 1.

Khan, being an aggressive and fast starter, makes this tempting

Paul may just not realise or expect the type of speed he is being
met with here. Also, that body could be open to some heavy and fast shots.

Hate to see it but thats good odds on something that could very likely happen.
I'm off to the bookies......

davegrohl48

I think 14/1 is poor odds for a Khan knockout round one. Think logically. Mccloskey has never been down hardly and Khan likes to work the jab early on. He's hardly likely to come in early and commit to a big hook to the head that takes Mccloskey down. Even if he does put Mccloskey down, you're still relying on him being able to finish him off after if Mccloskey gets up.

walshb

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I think 14/1 is poor odds for a Khan knockout round one. Think logically. Mccloskey has never been down hardly and Khan likes to work the jab early on. He's hardly likely to come in early and commit to a big hook to the head that takes Mccloskey down. Even if he does put Mccloskey down, you're still relying on him being able to finish him off after if Mccloskey gets up.

I think he has a slight chance to do it with body shots. It's unlikely, but tempting. Rds 1-3 will be very risky for Paul. These are rds where Amir will be at his most alert, fastest and most committed.

walshb

I really am confused trying to envisage how Paul out boxes Khan.
That to me is alien. Paul has no jab. At least not one that is effective. He is shorter, not as skilled, not as busy and not as good a boxer.

davegrohl48

I think you're right walshb, Khan is the better boxer from the point of view of pop-pop, move, come in, move out, pop the jab, pop a combo, tie yer opponent up. But I think Mccloskey has a 50:50 chance of winning by covering up tight and forcing the pace from the off. Don't let Khan pace himself with his pop/pop style that goes on for round after round. Get at him, take four punches to land two zinging hurtful shots. If you watch the Maidana knockdown of Khan, only for he was beside the ropes he could have lost that fight. Khan was wobbled and the ropes kept him up. Would have been disorientating if he'd fell to the canvas. Maidana didn't manage to time him up right with a shot to finish him. He got too close and got tied up himself.
If Mccloskey can land one good shot he will wobble Khan. I just see Mccloskey landing at least one good shot at some stage in the middle rounds, then we could get a moment of vulnerability.
Rewatched Kotelnik fight there. Kotelnik threw combos of three/four punches all off the left. They were landing, but I mean ya won't have a lot of zing on yer punches leaving yer arm out there and repeating the same hook. For me Mccloskey would have beaten Kotelnik. Average handspeed, average strength, comes in straight, a solid but unspectacular fighter who was well hittable. Mccloskey has showboated with his hands down to a European title without being in bother. This is not Paulie feather fisted Malignagi. His 22 fights to me say Mccloskey will be there after five rounds with strength, intent and punch power. I don't see him taking a Kotelnik like soaking.

I think we sometimes underate our own stock for a few decent fighters (we overrate them too ). Frampton, Egan, other guys I think could take pro world titles. I know Egans not pro but I always thought he was quality.

walshb

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I think you're right walshb, Khan is the better boxer from the point of view of pop-pop, move, come in, move out, pop the jab, pop a combo, tie yer opponent up. But I think Mccloskey has a 50:50 chance of winning by covering up tight and forcing the pace from the off. Don't let Khan pace himself with his pop/pop style that goes on for round after round. Get at him, take four punches to land two zinging hurtful shots. If you watch the Maidana knockdown of Khan, only for he was beside the ropes he could have lost that fight. Khan was wobbled and the ropes kept him up. Would have been disorientating if he'd fell to the canvas. Maidana didn't manage to time him up right with a shot to finish him. He got too close and got tied up himself.
If Mccloskey can land one good shot he will wobble Khan. I just see Mccloskey landing at least one good shot at some stage in the middle rounds, then we could get a moment of vulnerability.
Rewatched Kotelnik fight there. Kotelnik threw combos of three/four punches all off the left. They were landing, but I mean ya won't have a lot of zing on yer punches leaving yer arm out there and repeating the same hook. For me Mccloskey would have beaten Kotelnik. Average handspeed, average strength, comes in straight, a solid but unspectacular fighter who was well hittable. Mccloskey has showboated with his hands down to a European title without being in bother. This is not Paulie feather fisted Malignagi. His 22 fights to me say Mccloskey will be there after five rounds with strength, intent and punch power. I don't see him taking a Kotelnik like soaking.

I think we sometimes underate our own stock for a few decent fighters (we overrate them too ). Frampton, Egan, other guys I think could take pro world titles. I know Egans not pro but I always thought he was quality.

Egan? Kenny?

C'mon, very good amatuer, but his style is just not suited to the pros. Anyway, he is an amatuer and always will be.

Frampton? Let him do something first. I am waiting.

Jayob10

very odd altogether, all mention of the fight has been removed from the Sky Sports website

Its billing as being shown on Sky Sports 3 aswell has also been pulled

celtictiger32

Jayob10 wrote: »

very odd altogether, all mention of the fight has been removed from the Sky Sports website

Its billing as being shown on Sky Sports 3 aswell has also been pulled

i heard a little rumour tonight that it might not go ahead i just hope a rumour is all it is.

and walshy we agree on something:D i also think egan wouldnt be suited to the pro game i think hes a very good amateur and thats it, i reckon he knows that himself and thats why he never switched. however i do think frampton is a good prospect as i said on another thread id love to see him mixing it kiko some time soon and set his stall out. but thats another threads work;)

King of Kings

mclcoskeys facebook says it's all sorted now but not a PPV fight anymore.

usual dicking around from khan's team.

quotes from fb (and twitter ) last night

Paul 'Dude' McCloskey
Both sides have come to an agreement and eveything goes ahead as planned on Sky sports just not PPV. AND THE NEW!

@amirkingkhan @saj23x Reebok boxing boots-£0, Silly watch-£50,000,Audi R8 £100,000,Not paying undercard fighters-£1,000,000, getting beat by by the pride of Ireland @paulmccloskey PRICELESS! #DUDEYARMY #ANDtheNEW

makl

walshb wrote: »

The bookies are offering 14/1 on Khan in rd 1.

Khan, being an aggressive and fast starter, makes this tempting

Paul may just not realise or expect the type of speed he is being
met with here. Also, that body could be open to some heavy and fast shots.

that's my main worry. one of the reasons i decided not to go, especially after payin out for casey's loss plus macklin's cancellation.

just hope he's aware of it too.

keep thinking of gomez's interview post khan ko -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30AtZuGfz1o
"he's got no power, it's the accuracy...his accuracy is unbelievable and his speed is just great, great, what can i say".

i rate mccloskey after round 1

deisedelight

best of luck paul

joepenguin

Wonder how much dough mcloskey will lose out on. wasnt he getting good cut of irish ppv sales.

walshb

makl wrote: »

that's my main worry. one of the reasons i decided not to go, especially after payin out for casey's loss plus macklin's cancellation.

just hope he's aware of it too.

keep thinking of gomez's interview post khan ko -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30AtZuGfz1o
"he's got no power, it's the accuracy...his accuracy is unbelievable and his speed is just great, great, what can i say".

i rate mccloskey after round 1

Gomez is funny. Maybe it was your face first style that made Khan appear deadly accurate.

celtictiger32

joepenguin wrote: »

Wonder how much dough mcloskey will lose out on. wasnt he getting good cut of irish ppv sales.

i dont know paul personally but he comes across as the kind of guy who genuinely will put having a crack at the title before worrying about what hes taking in for the fight. i know people are going to say thats crazy but thats the way i see it. of course everybody has to look after their financial interests in these things aswell and im not saying for one minute he doesnt care what he makes im just saying i reckon he'll put the signifigance first....... the way it should be too imo.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Gomez is funny. Maybe it was your face first style that made Khan appear deadly accurate.

ha! funny. he's right though, Khan doesn't possess one punch knock out power, it's the speed of his combinations that does the damage.