Amir Khan v Paul McCloskey - Manchester, April 16

gene_tunney

Khan badly needs to sort out his footwork. Galloping around the edge of the ring and then jumping in to throw a flurry of punches just doesn't cut it. He's getting by at the moment because of his phenomenal handspeed.

alanceltic

At What price should McCloskey take this fight???? lets face it that seems to be the big issue here, the fight can potentially be made by the looks of it and as every the burning question is over who gets paid what....so nothing really changes in boxing.

Yes Khan is the big draw but McCloskey does bring a lot to the table here... he has an undefeated record which we know is a ticket seller in itself (oh how the yanks love that zero), he is european champ, he is rated VERY highly in the main divisions (#5 in two i believe).

Now the fact that the offer is more than he has earned to date means jacks_hit, lets face it quite a lot of boxers are lucky to get to fringe level for one big payday before being "found out" at the very top level. There is also the morality of knowing you have been screwed before even stepping into the ring which im sure can be a burden in itself to carry. Nobody is disputing that Khan should get the loins share and rightly so but at some point a boxer and his team have to say NO even if it is rejection a career high payday. Im sure there are plenty who would take a shot for free but Paul has quite a lot to put on the table and his next step could be his one and only crack at a big payday and if he doesnt think the $$ is there he should be brave enough to say thanks but no thanks as i believe it would be a much wiser move than taking the shot for the hell of it on buttons.

For what its worth Khan absolutely destroys him which I think is why it is even more imperative that he gets well paid for it!!!!

walshb

Paul has one chance only, that is to KO Khan. Could he do it? Yes.
Do I think he will? No...If Khan can take his shots, then Khan dominates this fight from the start to the end.

Jayob10

alanceltic wrote: »

At What price should McCloskey take this fight???? lets face it that seems to be the big issue here, the fight can potentially be made by the looks of it and as every the burning question is over who gets paid what....so nothing really changes in boxing.

Yes Khan is the big draw but McCloskey does bring a lot to the table here... he has an undefeated record which we know is a ticket seller in itself (oh how the yanks love that zero), he is european champ, he is rated VERY highly in the main divisions (#5 in two i believe).

Now the fact that the offer is more than he has earned to date means jacks_hit, lets face it quite a lot of boxers are lucky to get to fringe level for one big payday before being "found out" at the very top level. There is also the morality of knowing you have been screwed before even stepping into the ring which im sure can be a burden in itself to carry. Nobody is disputing that Khan should get the loins share and rightly so but at some point a boxer and his team have to say NO even if it is rejection a career high payday. Im sure there are plenty who would take a shot for free but Paul has quite a lot to put on the table and his next step could be his one and only crack at a big payday and if he doesnt think the $$ is there he should be brave enough to say thanks but no thanks as i believe it would be a much wiser move than taking the shot for the hell of it on buttons.

For what its worth Khan absolutely destroys him which I think is why it is even more imperative that he gets well paid for it!!!!

Money Money Money f*cking money.

Thats all we ever hear about. Whatever happened to that burning desire to be champ, to beat the best???
If I was McCloskey i'd take whats offered, i'd use the lack of respect to my advantage come fight time.
If you win you are in big money territory.

You would have to think that lads who spurn a title shot because the money isn't right don't actually believe they can win deep down. They want to maximise that one big pay day. Grow some balls.

The champ should take the vast majority of the money anyways. When you are in a position to claim big money you will be there by virtue of having beaten someone of note.

walshb

Jayob10 wrote: »

Money Money Money f*cking money.

Thats all we ever hear about. Whatever happened to that burning desire to be champ, to beat the best???
If I was McCloskey i'd take whats offered, i'd use the lack of respect to my advantage come fight time.
If you win you are in big money territory.

You would have to think that lads who spurn a title shot because the money isn't right don't actually believe they can win deep down. They want to maximise that one big pay day. Grow some balls.

The champ should take the vast majority of the money anyways. When you are in a position to claim big money you will be there by virtue of having beaten someone of note.

Not an ounce of subtlety, but spot on!

Spazdarn

I think Khan is fairly flawed, his chin will always be suspect despite his impressive performance against Maidana. His footwork is a bit rough, and his decision making can be fairly poor at times... In the later rounds of his previous fight when his back was against the ropes, there was times when he could have and should have been dancing away from his opponent but he stayed on the ropes and covered up and let Maidana go at it, throwing a few uppercuts. It was like he was out to prove he had a chin and while that's all well and good, he wasn't far from being knocked out... on another night the fight could have ended differently.

Regardless, I think Bradley outclasses Alexander (who I find to be exciting to watch) but I don't think Bradley has enough power to knock out Khan, and if they met I'd honestly believe Khan's lightning quick combinations over the course of the night would win it for him.

I don't see any problem in him fighting McCloskey, he said his next fight would be at home, before a fight to unify the belts. So fighting domestic doesn't bother me.

Though I think he's aiming to plow through them too quickly. Even if Alexander loses to Bradley or vice versa, I'd like to see him face the loser of the bout also and possibly Ortiz. Cleaning out the division doesn't mean winning all the titles in 2 matches, it means cleaning out the best in the division.

From the sounds of it, he's going to jump up the welter if all goes well this year... chasing Mayweather, who would make him look foolish

BoxingIrel.com

Looks like this one goes down the swanny!

If someone as experienced as Barry Hearn reckons its a shít deal then I an inclined to believe him.

http://www.boxing-ireland.com/20110127_mccloskey_khan_fight_off_21.html

Jayob10

its a title fight against one of the "name" fighters. If McCloskey thought he had a chance of winning he would have taken this. Thats the bottom line. He wants to be paid well for what he sees as an inevitable defeat.

if he has been offered 3 times his last purse and he has stilled called it derisory, then he must have earned peanuts in his previous fight thats all I will say.

Shows how different things are in the sport nowadays when ya have a lad turning down a shot at a world title.

TheProdigy

Jayob10 wrote: »

If McCloskey thought he had a chance of winning he would have taken this. Thats the bottom line. He wants to be paid well for what he sees as an inevitable defeat.

Exactly.

I can accept Paul's position but I certainly don't respect it and it is definitely an opportunity which he would be extremely lucky to see ever again. Khan doesn't/didn't need McCloskey, he wanted a 'handy' fight after he had a war with Maidana, chances are he is going to go on and excel while Paul will continue and probably finish out his career fighting European nobodys.

Feargal as Luimneach

I can't believe that people think that McCloskey should take the fight for half nothing! Khan's camp have a history of being miserable with fight negotiations (Maidana, Peterson).
A McCloskey fight will sell PPV and will likely sell out the M.E.N. (A good Ireland v England scrap, unbeaten EBU champion, McCloskey well known by British and Irish fight fans). Khan's other PPV fights did not sell out arenas. This one would have. McCloskey should get his fair share!!!!!!!!

sxt

Jayob10 wrote: »

its a title fight against one of the "name" fighters. If McCloskey thought he had a chance of winning he would have taken this. Thats the bottom line. He wants to be paid well for what he sees as an inevitable defeat.

if he has been offered 3 times his last purse and he has stilled called it derisory, then he must have earned peanuts in his previous fight thats all I will say.

Shows how different things are in the sport nowadays when ya have a lad turning down a shot at a world title.

Lets put this in perspective, His last fight was in Letterkenny leisure complex.


THe lad isn't turning down the fight, it is his promotor /manager who look after the business end of things .

Boooourns

Surely Paul could make a heap of money from sponsorship going into this fight as well?

walshb

Maybe Paul fancies a few more years fighting nobodies, rather than fighting one of the best 140 lbers in the game, FOR a world title....

This isn't about money. This is about Paul's camp realising that he hasn't much of a chance to win, so they won't risk the 0....

If he was being offered a career high payday, then they should have went for it, and not cared what Khan was getting...

BTW, the blame more than likely lies with Hearn. It's the money men who control thse fighters....

Hearn:

“We have a huge fight lined up for Paul at King’s Hall in the spring and who knows, not long down the line he could face Amir as a World Champion himself in a 50-50 split fight,” said Hearn.

So, what is this huge fight? One thing is certain, that would be a first....

Jayob10

All this crap about McCloskey bringing in potentially alot of PPV buys in this. People forget its due to the fact its Khan he is fighting.

McCloskey wouldn't get near a PPV unless Khan is in the other corner.

His team have absolutely no intention of putting him in with Khan as quite frankly he will be beaten. He is 31 now, to be turning down such a huge opportunity, Barry Hearn better have something big lined up.

Wild_Dogger

Its a pity bixing is a business and no longer a sport .

In order to realise the fundementals of real competition , the spoils should go to the victor and not pre-determined before the competition actually takes place !

Anyway , lets say the fight falls apart then who do you think Khan will face ?
Possibly another underweight fighter in John Murray ?
Khan should be trying to shake that reputation in my opinion !

Maidana has said he is more than willing to a rematch return in England ,...... wouldnt blame Khan for not taking it .
Marquez has offered to step up a weight and fight Khan .

I used to hold a place for Guzman , but he's so unpredictable and couldnt be truusted .

Wild_Dogger

walshb wrote: »

Hearn:

“We have a huge fight lined up for Paul at King’s Hall in the spring and who knows, not long down the line he could face Amir as a World Champion himself in a 50-50 split fight,” said Hearn.

So, what is this huge fight? One thing is certain, that would be a first....

I think Hearn was banking on Bradley winning the Alexander fight and the WBC title becoming vacant , but from what I read both Bradley and the WBC have ironed out their issues over the last couple of days .
Its a bluff by Hearn I believe , but i still wouldnt like to see McCloskey gettin ripped off outright .

PPV may be attributed to Khans presence , but Khan wont earn quite so many PPV's if he's fighting some underweight bum a foot shorter with a 'composed' record.

So lets see a fair agreement , and maybe a solution would be to base some respectable percentage of the earnings to the guy who emerges with his hand in the air .

walshb

We can dress it up and disguise it and talk about it non stop; for me, this was a case of ONE night in a fighter's life where he had the dream fight to win a world title against a very known and big name, at least at 140 lbs.

36 minutes from his entire life, it's nothing, and he OR his team have blown it.
No, it's not just about the PPV, the offer, the conditions. He wins, then he can spend the next year or two dictating to whomever he lkes about PPV and money.

Paul McCloskey has blown a real big chance here. Biggest pay of his career as well...and from reports, by a fair margin.

Spazdarn

Yeah the potential earnings from a win far outweight any purse he gets off of Khan for this fight especially with it being reported it's several times more than he's ever fought for.

BoxingIrel.com

In truth professional boxing has always been about money, the titles were just an invention to structure it to make even more more and the various sanctioning bodies have devalued the "world titles" so much that the money has become even more important.

Can you really see Alexander or Bradley wanting to fulfil their mandatory obligations against the winner of Olusegun and Chebah who fight in an eliminator this weekend. I cant! Especially with a lucrative Khan fight around the corner.

I would foresee the WBC title becoming vacant before the end of the year and McCloskey is best placed to fight the winner of that eliminator, especially if Olusegun wins. Then maybe a fight with Khan can come around and McCloskey can get his fair share of the pie. But for fans, especially Irish fans, to be defending Team Khans miserly approach to matchmaking I find bewildering and embarrassing. They label every fighter they come into contact with as "pricing themselves out of the fight - can it be that EVERYONE is greedy except for the Khans?

To defend a promoter offering an unbeaten European champion like McCloskey less than 5% of the share of the purses is disgraceful. Why would McCloskey take a fight that he is likely to lose without being compensated to a fair level. Risk/Reward. Big Risk/Big Reward. McCloskey is expected to take big risk with small reward.

By virtue of the these negotiations, McCloskey will have benefited from an increase from an increase in his profile, not just at home but in the UK and the States as well. He can fight the likes of Di Rocco and defend against another Di Rocco and combined get the same money as he would for the Khan fight. Medium risk/Medium reward. It finds a natural level. It looks like the only way of getting a decent pay day against Khan is to get into a mandatory position. I wonder if he will acknowledge the same arguments he is putting forward to offer a lower purse to McCloskey when/if negotiations start with Mayweather?

Spazdarn

I would foresee the WBC title becoming vacant before the end of the year and McCloskey is best placed to fight the winner of that eliminator, especially if Olusegun wins. Then maybe a fight with Khan can come around and McCloskey can get his fair share of the pie. But for fans, especially Irish fans, to be defending Team Khans miserly approach to matchmaking I find bewildering and embarrassing. They label every fighter they come into contact with as "pricing themselves out of the fight - can it be that EVERYONE is greedy except for the Khans?

Hardly, they're obviously tight with money... but he's the draw, it's unfortunately up to the other fights to beat him and get into the position he's in. They may not make a fortune for fighting him but beating him would knock him off his perch and guarantee much bigger paydays in the future. It doesn't matter where your from or what nationality you are, Khan is in the driving seat because he's champion, he's more of a draw, and he brings most of the interest to the fight. It's common sense.

Ask yourself how much money McCloskey'd get for a fight with Barker, or any of the other relatively interesting (and realistic) match ups available? Nowhere near as much as he's bound to get for a Khan fight. If McCloskey believed he could beat Khan he'd take the fight, believing that much bigger riches were on the way... he clearly doesn't.



To defend a promoter offering an unbeaten European champion like McCloskey less than 5% of the share of the purses is disgraceful. Why would McCloskey take a fight that he is likely to lose without being compensated to a fair level. Risk/Reward. Big Risk/Big Reward. McCloskey is expected to take big risk with small reward.

That 5% is relative to how big Khan is... Of course that percentage sounds unfair, but when you put that into euros it's more than enough again considering how much he's usually getting.

The reward is huge, a title belt and worldwide exposure.


By virtue of the these negotiations, McCloskey will have benefited from an increase from an increase in his profile, not just at home but in the UK and the States as well. He can fight the likes of Di Rocco and defend against another Di Rocco and combined get the same money as he would for the Khan fight. Medium risk/Medium reward. It finds a natural level. It looks like the only way of getting a decent pay day against Khan is to get into a mandatory position. I wonder if he will acknowledge the same arguments he is putting forward to offer a lower purse to McCloskey when/if negotiations start with Mayweather?[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

He wont' get Mayweather, Mayweather fighting Khan and not Manny would look like he's ducking Pacquiao...

Vintagekits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeLfMrv5Pg0

Boooourns

I'm going to go with Paul here, it must of been a hell of a bad offer. There's no way he wouldn't have turned it down if i wasn't so bad.
Being realistic and he did go in and fight Khan with a poor amount only then to be stopped in the first or second then it affects his future career dramatically. He won't fill out places anymore as he'll have lost the casual fan. At the moment there's momentum behind him and he's worked himself into a position where he can look after him financially if he keeps it going, in 2 rounds against Khan he could have turned his career upsidedown, at 32 he can't build his career back up.
It's grand for us to say he should be fighting for a World title for peanuts but thats not the case nowadays, the lad has to think of his future as well. It is Khan he could be fighting, one of the biggest talents around.

gene_tunney

Lost respect for McCloskey

Vintagekits

Team Khan responds to Barry Hearn accusations

http://boxing-ireland.com/20110128_amir_khan_responds_19.html

joepenguin

5% of the purse? Who does he think he is ODLH?
McLoskey is right and Kahn should have given him what he's worth, he is an Irish undefeated european champion. You tellin me the people in the states wouldnt buy into that?
McLoskey is very highly ranked in the wbc and doesnt need Kahn for a world title fight, he can pick up the wbc belt and then fight kahn on more even terms.

Plus it was rumoured from that start that they were only using him to drop petersons asking price.

In other Kahn news he has also dropped Alex Ariza... probably due to money.
http://www.boxingscene.com/amir-khan-making-team-changes-parts-with-alex-ariza--35285

Boooourns

joepenguin wrote: »

5% of the purse? Who does he think he is ODLH?
McLoskey is right and Kahn should have given him what he's worth, he is an Irish undefeated european champion. You tellin me the people in the states wouldnt buy into that?
McLoskey is very highly ranked in the wbc and doesnt need Kahn for a world title fight, he can pick up the wbc belt and then fight kahn on more even terms.

Plus it was rumoured from that start that they were only using him to drop petersons asking price.

In other Kahn news he has also dropped Alex Ariza... probably due to money.
http://www.boxingscene.com/amir-khan-making-team-changes-parts-with-alex-ariza--35285

He dropped Ariza! WTF! He may live to regret this if true.

Wild_Dogger

gene_tunney wrote: »

Lost respect for McCloskey

Gained respect for McCloskey .

None of us know the actual figures here , but it boils down to one question :
Is it worth it ?

and the people who do know the facts/figures (Peterson/Mccloskey) have based their answers on .

Also , I dont believe Paul becomes an overnight sensation in the U.S should he win this fight .
if anything , fans will put it down to Khan lack of.....

So back to fighting smaller underweight opponent again , as Khan looks to John Murray .

Rob113

Was Alex ariza not the credited with having the biggest influence on improving khans resistance and fragile chin? Could hugely live to regret that one

Vintagekits

slowly but surely the truth is coming out.

http://boxing-ireland.com/20110129_paul_mccloskey_khan_offer_11.html

Talk about wanting your cake and eating it. "Hey Paul, fight us for fúck all and if you win you have to give us a rematch for, er, eh, fúck all again! and even if you win that we have options on your next few fights!"

I cant understand why he would turn that down! :rolleyes:

Big Ears

Vintagekits wrote: »

slowly but surely the truth is coming out.

http://boxing-ireland.com/20110129_paul_mccloskey_khan_offer_11.html

Talk about wanting your cake and eating it. "Hey Paul, fight us for fúck all and if you win you have to give us a rematch for, er, eh, fúck all again! and even if you win that we have options on your next few fights!"

I cant understand why he would turn that down! :rolleyes:

It really was a joke offer.

When McCloskey's team felt the purse was too low, they sought a way to get around the problem. 50% on Irish ppv sales above the amount that were bought for Khan vs Maidana. Sales that would not exist were Khan to fight a non Irish opponent. This was refused.

The rematch clause stating Paul would earn the same as the first fight, and not only would they have options on his next two fights, they'd earn a % of Paul's purse for those fights aswell.

It seems one of 3 things here:
1.They never wanted the fight and were indeed using McCloskey to get Peterson back in the picture for a low purse.
2.They were seriously afraid of Paul winning and wanted to milk as much money as they could out of Paul from that occurrence.
3.They're exceptionally tight ****s.

#2 is the least likely, #1 is quite possibly true, and in light of the problems Khan's team has had with Thaxton, Maidana, Peterson, McCloskey and now Ariza, #3 is almost definitely true.

I wonder who Khan will fight now, Prescott may very well bow to conditions like that as he hasn't much going for him, but I'm not sure John Murray's team would.