New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

eagle eye

CoachTO wrote: »

Im going to bow out of this argument because Im not interested in discussing penalties or getting involved in a we were robbed back and forth debate. You have continually ignored where I mentioned our last offensive drive that could have and in fact should have wrapped the game up for us. So Im out you stick to your excuses and refs robbed us line and I will stick to the fact the Pats are bad at the moment and if we have to depend on refs to win us the games maybe we should take a long hard look at our team. The stupid thing is you admit we were bad but yet the refs robbed us.

CoachTO

eagle eye wrote: »

Give it a rest already will you. Its getting pathetic at this point. What I was trying to say is that you admit the Pats were bad but yet you blame the refs etc etc etc etc. Grow up for fook sake.

Oh and feel free to quote me and fix my post or throw in confused smiley faces oh great one.

eagle eye

CoachTO wrote: »

Give it a rest already will you. Its getting pathetic at this point. What I was trying to say is that you admit the Pats were bad but yet you blame the refs etc etc etc etc. Grow up for fook sake.

Oh and feel free to quote me and fix my post or throw in confused smiley faces oh great one.

Where in that did I say we played bad? Again you change words to suit you. I'm going to keep up the FYPs as long as you do that. And quit with your petty insults too. Thanks and goodnight.

I didn't read anybody saying our performance was great or even good. What I said is we did enough to win the game if the referees did their job.

PeterStrauss The Second

CoachTO wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Give it a rest already will you. Its getting pathetic at this point. What I was trying to say is that you admit the Pats were bad but yet you blame the refs etc etc etc etc. Grow up for fook sake.

Oh and feel free to quote me and fix my post or throw in confused smiley faces oh great one.

Do you think we would have lost if the pro refs were out there doing there job?

There was some terrible play calling as well, a lot of factors contributed to the loss and the refs were a solid portion of that as was poor performance and poor play calling.

CoachTO

PeterStrauss The Second wrote: »

Do you think we would have lost if the pro refs were out there doing there job?

The way we played on Sunday yes I do. Our defense let us down when it mattered and our offense couldn't even keep a drive going that would have wound the clock right down had we moved the ball.

There was some terrible play calling as well, a lot of factors contributed to the loss and the refs were a solid portion of that as was poor performance and poor play calling.

So you agree poor performance was part of the loss and we cannot 100% blame the refs as Eagle Eye is doing?

CoachTO

eagle eye wrote: »

Where in that did I say we played bad? Again you change words to suit you. I'm going to keep up the FYPs as long as you do that. And quit with your petty insults too. Thanks and goodnight.

Change words? Petty insults? Ok if that is how you see it my apologies and I told you to grow up for fixing my posts.

But hey I will be the bigger man for apologise again to you for thinking you said the Pats were bad although you did say the following so forgive me for getting it wrong:

The mistakes on defense only became evident when our front seven failed to even pressure Flacco.

The secondary is not fully to blame for what happened. If they are left exposed all the time they are going to give up scores and look bad.

No, you are picking on the secondary and refusing to discuss the issue of the front seven doing nothing and leaving the secondary exposed with a QB getting all the time in the world for this players to get open.,

It wasn't just McCourty that looked bad. Arrington looked awful too.

You are exactly right that its a team sport. Honestly I'm surprised at you that is a coach not understanding that its all one unit and every part depends on the other part.

More than once above you gave the impression you were saying the secondary were bad or at fault but not totally because the front 7 were to blame. Adding the last quote and doing the Math that indicates all 11 Defensive players being bad or to blame. But again I apologise if I got that wrong its easy to see where I got than impression.

And I will also apologise for what you see as an insult.

But I will say it is rich of you to point out flaws in my posts rather than to discuss some of the points I put to you including the last offensive drive which is a valid retort to you blaming the refs for us losing the game and also backs up how bad we played.

PeterStrauss The Second

CoachTO wrote: »

PeterStrauss The Second wrote: »

Do you think we would have lost if the pro refs were out there doing there job?

The way we played on Sunday yes I do. Our defense let us down when it mattered and our offense couldn't even keep a drive going that would have wound the clock right down had we moved the ball.

There was some terrible play calling as well, a lot of factors contributed to the loss and the refs were a solid portion of that as was poor performance and poor play calling.

So you agree poor performance was part of the loss and we cannot 100% blame the refs as Eagle Eye is doing?

I agree that poor performance was definitely part of it but so was the reffing, we'll never really know how it would have gone to be honest as one different call by the refs early on could change a game completely.

Onwards and upwards I guess, bring on the bills I say!

eagle eye

CoachTO wrote: »

More than once above you gave the impression you were saying the secondary were bad or at fault but not totally because the front 7 were to blame. Adding the last quote and doing the Math that indicates all 11 Defensive players being bad or to blame. But again I apologise if I got that wrong its easy to see where I got than impression.

The referees let the Ravens OL get away with holding all night long which lead to the front seven not getting pressure on which led to Flacco getting all night long in the pocket which led to receivers eventually getting open.

I said the secondary were made to look bad because there was no pressure on Flacco from the front seven. I explained earlier that I wasn't throwing the front seven under a bus, I was blaming the officials for that.

My opinion is that the Patriots D was made to look bad by terrible officiating. The doesn't mean I said the Patriots D was bad, they were screwed out of doing their job.

Mike912

Hopefully one thing everybody can agree on is that was 3 1/2 hours of pure entertainment, even with the terrible ending.

PeterStrauss The Second wrote: »

Onwards and upwards I guess, bring on the bills I say!

Granted it was against KC and Cle but their D has posted 9 sacks in the last two weeks. Would love to see more of Bill O'Brien's no-huddle hurry up offense from last year to keep those Bills big body D linemen on the field to tire them out. Hopefully Josh agrees.

CoachTO

eagle eye wrote: »

The referees let the Ravens OL get away with holding all night long which lead to the front seven not getting pressure on which led to Flacco getting all night long in the pocket which led to receivers eventually getting open.

Same type of holds the regular NFL refs probably would have let go.

I said the secondary were made to look bad because there was no pressure on Flacco from the front seven. I explained earlier that I wasn't throwing the front seven under a bus, I was blaming the officials for that.

As I said I apologise for mis reading your posts but you can see where I thought what I did.

My opinion is that the Patriots D was made to look bad by terrible officiating. The doesn't mean I said the Patriots D was bad, they were screwed out of doing their job.

Fair enough that is your opinion and at this point I am done with the defense debate and the refs. But you are still ignoring the last offensive drive that could have and would have won us the game had we not been so poor and actually moved the ball. But of course you are ignoring it because the refs didn't fook that up and the Offense was sh1te and couldn't put the game away for us.

Son Of A Vidic

Kellen Winslow (TE) asked for and has been granted his release from the Patriots. He admitted last week he has to play though a lot of pain with his knee. So it may have been a factor in his decision. Daniel Fells coming back from injury against the Ravens and playing his first few snaps as a patriot probably didn't help. Good to hear that Hernandez has been seen around Gillette without his protective boot or crutches. Let's hope his reputation as a quick healer continues.

eagle eye

CoachTO wrote: »

Same type of holds the regular NFL refs probably would have let go.

No, I'm not talking about those at all. I'm talking about things like Pitta getting beat and then grabbing the arm of Chandler Jones and pulling him away just as he is getting to Flacco. That happened on their last td play where Smith pushed off. I mean what the hell were these refs looking at if they missed all that stuff in real time? There was so much of this stuff going on all game long and nothing was done about it.

CoachTO wrote: »

As I said I apologise for mis reading your posts but you can see where I thought what I did.

Fine.

CoachTO wrote: »

Fair enough that is your opinion and at this point I am done with the defense debate and the refs. But you are still ignoring the last offensive drive that could have and would have won us the game had we not been so poor and actually moved the ball. But of course you are ignoring it because the refs didn't fook that up and the Offense was sh1te and couldn't put the game away for us.

I wasn't discussing the offense at all. I'm not at all happy with the way that drive went. I'm not willing to criticise everybody involved on the offense though just yet.

We lost a huge part of our offense in Aaron Hernandez and they set up a gameplan to deal with that. This gameplan got us 30 points against a Ravens defense that gave up 13 against the Ravens and 24 to the Eagles.

Yes that last drive was pathetic but you cannot just trash everybody over one drive or even two, hell one game is not enough to go and throw the OC and Head Coach under a bus.

CoachTO

eagle eye wrote: »

Fine

Apology accepted.

We lost a huge part of our offense in Aaron Hernandez and they set up a gameplan to deal with that. This gameplan got us 30 points against a Ravens defense that gave up 13 against the Ravens and 24 to the Eagles.

Yes that last drive was pathetic but you cannot just trash everybody over one drive or even two, hell one game is not enough to go and throw the OC and Head Coach under a bus.

Who said anything about thrashing the whole offense? I was making the point that the team on a whole played badly including both offense and defense. No one said anything about thrashing them. But the simple fact is our offense was hit and miss the whole game and that last drive could have run the clock and won us the game but they failed to do so.

You are truly missing the point of why I brought it up or refuse to accept the facts in front of you. You blame the refs 100% even though the game was in our own hands and we failed to win it at the end. But hey At this point dude its pointless debating with you because you are just going to blame the refs no matter what and you will ignore certain points or fix my posts or say im insulting you or whatever it is to deflect the actual debate.

eagle eye

CoachTO wrote: »

Apology accepted.



Who said anything about thrashing the whole offense? I was making the point that the team on a whole played badly including both offense and defense. No one said anything about thrashing them. But the simple fact is our offense was hit and miss the whole game and that last drive could have run the clock and won us the game but they failed to do so.

You are truly missing the point of why I brought it up or refuse to accept the facts in front of you. You blame the refs 100% even though the game was in our own hands and we failed to win it at the end. But hey At this point dude its pointless debating with you because you are just going to blame the refs no matter what and you will ignore certain points or fix my posts or say im insulting you or whatever it is to deflect the actual debate.

Yes we are at total odds. I'm 100% confident that if we had the real officials out there that we would have won the game. I've said that all along.

Sharing the blame is not what this is about. You can say the Patriots didn't help themselves at the end of the game but the point is they should never have been in that position. The reason they ended up in that position was bad officiating and not their play. I'm confident we would not even be discussing the Pats performance if we had gotten the win. As you know a win in Baltimore is a big achievement each and every time its done.

Son Of A Vidic

For the record, I agree with elements of both your arguments. The front seven didn't deliver when needed, the secondary didn't deliver when needed, the offense didn't deliver when we needed them to continue their final drive, retain possession and close the game out. The officials continued the final drive for the Ravens, with the phantom foul call. The Ravens should have been pegged back on their 16 Yard line for a 3rd and 14.

The Pats should be master of their own destiny during any game and while it is true to say that officials shouldn't be blamed for a teams or individuals shortcomings during a game. I find it hard to ignore the accumulative effect, multiple poor calls and missed calls the terrible officiating had during the game.

But Jaysus lads ye could be at this for ever, maybe you should just agree to disagree?

Son Of A Vidic

No word yet on when Shane Vereen will be returning from his foot injury. Anxious to get him back because I'm sick of Woodhead trying to run the ball.

Mike912

We've seen so little of Vereen that I honestly have no idea what he brings to the table. Can't even venture a guess as to which rb in the NFL he can be compared to.

I think, with the Bills D front seven, this game will once again be on the passing game.

Son Of A Vidic

Mike912 wrote: »

We've seen so little of Vereen that I honestly have no idea what he brings to the table.

What he brings to the table - he's probably a better blocker than Ridley and offers better pass protection. Very strong for his size, very good in traffic and at finding cutback lanes. He has pretty good hands and instincts as a pass catcher. Ridley will always start and is a much better battering ram, but bring on Vereen when the defense stands off or gets tired a bit and he can potentially destroy them

He looked very good during preseason, in fact he started better than Ridley. But fair play to Ridley, he really rose to the challenge from Vereen and confirmed his position as our leading RB.

A real shame that Vereen pick up the foot injury before preseason ended. Because it really looked like both Ridley and Vereen were kinda motivated by each others plays. Unfortunately you can't help but question his durability now, especially when you look back at last season.

He really needs to get back soon and show the form he had in preseason. It will also be very important for him to stay healthy, when he is back on the field. But if any more durability questions arise, then it's possible that dark clouds might start appearing on the horizon.

Masked Man

I think, with the Bills D front seven, this game will once again be on the passing game.

The Bills which have given up 118, 150 and 33 rushing yards so far. Think it's something like 4 yards per carry as well. Might want to look at that again, expecting Ridley to have a very good game.

Mike912

Masked Man wrote: »

The Bills which have given up 118, 150 and 33 rushing yards so far. Think it's something like 4 yards per carry as well. Might want to look at that again, expecting Ridley to have a very good game.

I think it's important to note that of the 150 yards given up vs KC, 105 came in the the 4th quarter after Buffalo was up 35-3. My guess is the high-priced Bills D-linemen were on the sidelines by then, planning their nights festivities.

The Bills spent a ton on free agents this offseason, and revamped their D into a 4-3 set up to improve on their dismal performance versus the run last year. The last two weeks have shown that that investment is coming to fruition.

Think this is going to be another very close game.

Mike912

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

What he brings to the table - he's probably a better blocker than Ridley and offers better pass protection. Very strong for his size, very good in traffic and at finding cutback lanes. He has pretty good hands and instincts as a pass catcher. Ridley will always start and is a much better battering ram, but bring on Vereen when the defense stands off or gets tired a bit and he can potentially destroy them

He looked very good during preseason, in fact he started better than Ridley. But fair play to Ridley, he really rose to the challenge from Vereen and confirmed his position as our leading RB.

A real shame that Vereen pick up the foot injury before preseason ended. Because it really looked like both Ridley and Vereen were kinda motivated by each others plays. Unfortunately you can't help but question his durability now, especially when you look back at last season.

He really needs to get back soon and show the form he had in preseason. It will also be very important for him to stay healthy, when he is back on the field. But if any more durability questions arise, then it's possible that dark clouds might start appearing on the horizon.

Agree on your durability stance wholeheartedly. To use an oft overused analogy, would you say Vereen is the "lightning" to Ridley's "thunder"? Serious question because I know next to nothing about Vereen.

Goose_Hyypia

Mankins is out :mad:

Son Of A Vidic

Goose_Hyypia wrote: »

Mankins is out :mad:

Ya, apparently his hip has been troubling him all week. There's no one tougher than Mankins, so when he can't play it's very worrying to say the least. After all, this is the first player to ever play through a season with an ACL injuury :eek:.

Masked Man

Masked Man wrote: »

The Bills which have given up 118, 150 and 33 rushing yards so far. Think it's something like 4 yards per carry as well. Might want to look at that again, expecting Ridley to have a very good game.

Should of said Pats running game instead of Ridley. Lol me trying to predict who the pats will use.

Masked Man

Masked Man wrote: »

The Bills which have given up 118, 150 and 33 rushing yards so far. Think it's something like 4 yards per carry as well. Might want to look at that again, expecting Ridley to have a very good game.

Ridley: 22 attempts, 106 yards, 2 TD
Bolden: 16 attempts, 137 yards, 1 TD

Sick

also a franchise record for rushing TDs

---

I heard on one of the pregame things that Brady has played in more Superbowls than games while the Patriots were under 50%.

Holy **** if that's true.

Hazys

I must say, what a difference real refs make, you dont even notice them...the game went so smoothly today and no dodgy calls compared to last weeks debacle.

I think the Pats had 1 penalty called against them today, which is very patriot like, unlike last week where they had 10+ calls against them...still a joke

JaMarcus Hustle

Masked Man

helimachoptor

That wilfork hit is epic

Paully D

What is Brady saying in that gif above?