New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

CoachTO

me89 wrote: »

Kellen Winslow is in for a visit today

Id say he is putting pen to paper. He visited a couple of weeks ago and failed a medical. If he stays fit he is a good acquisition.

Gweedling

Thoughts on the Cardinals game?
Overall I thought it was a rubbish game, bar the 4th Quarter which was some of the most exciting football I've ever watched. Gostowski's missed field goal had me on the edge of my seat, but in a way I was glad he missed it, Pats didn't deserve the win, even by a steal, I thought they played rubbish overall. Brady had a howler.

Son Of A Vidic

I was probably as píssed after the Cardinals game last Sunday as I was after the SB. I was just felt sick when I seen Hernandez getting helped off in a lot of pain. He is our best offensive weapon and the one player that really keeps other teams guessing. Because he can play a traditional TE role, play in the slot or line up in the backfield. In reality we would need 3 players to replace him, so he's irreplaceable. He was the star of training camp and I just felt he was going to have a huge year for us. Then this happens . Pats as usually are keeping tight on it at the moment. He had an MRI yesterday and I have yet to pick up anything from it. Hopefully he won't miss too many games for us.

Overall a shyte performance, the defense was solid though, with the young guns again having some stand out moments. My only criticism of them was when they allowed the soft QB sneak TD. All credit to them for their huge turnover play late in the 4th. But who would have thought that the offense would have let us down the way they did. Brady had a poor game by his standard and the whole offense misfired. The defense continues to outperform them. Who would have thought nine months ago, that our feared offense would be letting us down and playing so badly.

Looking at the positive, despite playing so badly and not really deserving to win. They still nearly pulled out the win. Despite having a poor game, when it really mattered, Brady stepped up when needed and put us in the position to win. Unfortunately Brady can't throw the ball to himself and his final efforts were badly let down, by uncharacteristically stupid play and stupid penalties.

But I do think the disallowed TD was a shocking mistake by the officials and cost us the game. The holding penalty on Gronkowski was wrong, while it appeared that Gronkowski had a hand outside and on the shoulder of Cardinals Safety Kerry Rhodes. I didn't see any obstruction of Rhodes' path, I have looked at it a few times and I just don't see it. Even the Gamepass commentators were left bemused by the call back. Still we should not have been in that position at that stage, to depend on that play to win

Some of offensive play calls were a bit strange when compared to last year. But I think we are witnessing a change in our offense system, that Josh is introducing right now. It's having teething problems at the moment, but when it comes right, it will make us more unpredictable and balanced in attack.

CoachTO

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

But I do think the disallowed TD was a shocking mistake by the officials and cost us the game. The holding penalty on Gronkowski was wrong, while it appeared that Gronkowski had a hand outside and on the shoulder of Cardinals Safety Kerry Rhodes. I didn't see any obstruction of Rhodes' path, I have looked at it a few times and I just don't see it. Even the Gamepass commentators were left bemused by the call back. Still we should not have been in that position at that stage, to depend on that play to win

.

EE will probably jump in here and argue with me again but the Rhodes was obstructed by Gronk when Woodhead came up behind Gronk and Rhodes. Gronk also had hold of his jersey. Sure Gronk let him go just as Woodhead went past him but Rhodes was impeded and as Mike Pereira pointed (courtesy of EE) out the letter of the law states it was a hold and technically it was a hold but NFL refs would generally let it slide.

But as I put to EE and he keeps ignoring the stand ins are College and HS refs and not normal NFL refs and in Both college and HS that was a hold. Do we want these refs sticking to the letter of the law or do we want them letting things slide when they are already making sh1te calls all over the place already.

Son Of A Vidic

Gronk clearly released his grip/alleged hold as soon as Rhodes turns to pursue Woodhead. But Regardless of Gronk, Woodheard was travelling like a thunderbolt and Rhodes had no absolutely no chance of catching him. A skilled Ref would quickly have seen/realised this and there would have been no call on the play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtTnOBez8bU

Dodgy/stupid calls are on the increase and it really needs to be nipped in the bud. Officials are kind of like an offensive line, when they're really good you don't even notice them. But when they're not, you really do. Week 2 is now behind us and the NFL need to get their house in order. Because we can't afford to have these subs out there, especially around the business end of the season.

CoachTO

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Gronk clearly released his grip/alleged hold as soon as Rhodes turns to pursue Woodhead. But Regardless of Gronk, Woodheard was travelling like a thunderbolt and Rhodes had no absolutely no chance of catching him. A skilled Ref would quickly have seen/realised this and there would have been no call on the play.

I disagree and Gronk lets go after Woodhead passes them. But Gronk had his hands on the outside shoulder of Rhodes as Woodhead comes up behind them and his left hand had shirt.

Note the Right arm holding onto Rhodes Shoulder its a clear hold.



Gronk still has him as Woodhead goes by.



Had a good discussion on a coaches forum about it and there was a 50/50 split on whether or not it would have been called. But everyone one of them admitted that there was a hold but it would have depended on who saw it and whether they would have thrown the flag. Easy to say a more experienced ref wouldn't have thrown a flag on it though especially now Pereira has come out saying they wouldn't even though he himself admitted it was holding. Holds are always open to interpretation.

The fact of the matter is we will never know as right now the refs doing the games are college and high school refs and that hold would draw a flag in both.

Son Of A Vidic

Rhodes is turned inwards facing Gronk as Woodhead passes behind him, he has to rotate his body and change his centre of gravity in order to pursue Woodhead. So no chance of catching him at the speed Woodhead was travelling at. During Rhodes rotation, Gronk clearly breaks contact with Rhodes allowing him to pursue Woodhead.

Rhodes also makes no attempt to raise an arm to protest, or flag the officials during or after the play if he felt he was impeded. This clearly suggests to me that Rhodes felt Gronk played him fairly and did not impede his pursuit after Woodhead.

CoachTO

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Rhodes is turned inwards facing Gronk as Woodhead passes behind him, he has to rotate his body and change his centre of gravity in order to pursue Woodhead. So no chance of catching him at the speed Woodhead was travelling at. During Rhodes rotation, Gronk clearly breaks contact with Rhodes allowing him to pursue Woodhead.

Gronk is the Reason Rhodes was turned in the first place. Watch Gronks Right arm completely twist Rhodes. Also Pereira even said it was a hold but reckoned no NFL ref would call it. The fact of the matter you and EE seem to be missing is that it WAS a hold by the definition of the rules. His right arm on the outside of Rhodes shoulder creates the hold. Also Gronk Does this before Woodhead gets near him so in High school and college a flag would be thrown on this because he give Rhodes no chance to break by as the rule puts it:

Article 2 An offensive player cannot obstruct or impede an opponent by grasping him with his hands or encircling any part of a defender’s body with his arms

This is why Pereira said it was technically a hold as Gronk did the above. But what most people seem to be clinging to is the fact he said he believes no NFL ref would have thrown the flag on that hold.

What Pereira fails to take into account is that these refs are not regular NFL refs its that simple. They are college and HS refs who would throw a flag on that all day.

Also to say Rhodes had no chance to make the tackle there yes he did before he was held and before would he hit ouside him and Gronk.

Rhodes also makes no attempt to raise an arm to protest, or flag the officials during or after the play if he felt he was impeded. This clearly suggests to me that Rhodes felt Gronk played him fairly and did not impede his pursuit after Woodhead.

So what if Rhodes thought it was fair. Many players don't object to a lot of things because they just get on with it. In fact some of the older players prefer the rougher element and disagree with a lot of simple penalties thrown out anyways.

But im done on this subject we will have to agree to disagree.

Son Of A Vidic

CoachTO wrote: »

The fact of the matter you and EE seem to be missing is that it WAS a hold by the definition of the rules.

Coach, I agree with your point and I'm aware of the rules, I'm not disputed them. My point has been to look at the bigger picture and the context of the whole play. I think an experienced Ref would have done that. Yes the hand was outside the shoulder and should have been inside. But Rhodes was turning in toward Gronk and away from any pressure exerted by the hand. So therefore for me, the hand outside the shoulder was not impeding him. If he had of turned out toward the hand on his shoulder, then I would have seen it differently.

CoachTO wrote: »

Also to say Rhodes had no chance to make the tackle there yes he did before he was held and before would he hit ouside him and Gronk.

Through my goggles, Rhodes was clearly focused on dealing with Gronk during the play. It was only when Woodhead emerged from behind Gronk and passed behind Rhodes, is when Rhodes turned to deal with his threat. By that stage Woodhead was at full throttle and Rhodes was still trying to change direction.

CoachTO wrote: »

im done on this subject we will have to agree to disagree.

I agree with you there, I don't usually like dissecting plays or calls at all. It's all very subjective for all of us at the end of the day. We could sit side by side and watch that play a 100 times and we'll still see it differently.

decies

The upcoming fixtures are suddenly looking very tough , even wembley looks a tough one. Ravens came might well define the whole season.

Son Of A Vidic

decies wrote: »

The upcoming fixtures are suddenly looking very tough , even wembley looks a tough one. Ravens came might well define the whole season.

The Ravens game was the biggest one of the season for me and was always gonna be tough. If the offense doesn't step up we are F****d. Hernandez being out is a huge blow, but if Belichick can't improvise then no one can. A win could set us up nicely for the season and I don't want to even contemplate a loss tbh. I really hopefully the loss to the Cardinals will act as a wake up call for the team and maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

Son Of A Vidic

WR Salas was waived on Tuesday and it looks like Branch is coming back. A wise move in light of us losing Hernandez. I thought Branch was the most surprising cut of all from the final roster. Branch's locker has remained untouched since he was cut, so his return was probably expected at some point. Hopefully Salas can clear waivers now and we can hold onto him, because he's definitely a talent for the future.

CoachTO

Pats offered Waters triple his wage from last year to try lure him back

davyjose

Branch and Winslow sign http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8398411/deion-branch-kellen-winslow-signed-new-england-patriots-aaron-hernandez-out

the rich get richer

Son Of A Vidic

CoachTO wrote: »

Pats offered Waters triple his wage from last year to try lure him back

New England is a long way from home for him and his family roots are in Texas. It is a problem the seems well beyond solving now at this stage.

Son Of A Vidic

Good to hear that Greg Salas has now cleared waivers and is returning to the practice squad. Lloyd was limited in practice yesterday and is apparently carrying a thigh injury. Hopefully he'll shake it off before Sunday, because we can do without losing any more of our offensive weapons.

Mike912

davyjose wrote: »

Branch and Winslow sign http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8398411/deion-branch-kellen-winslow-signed-new-england-patriots-aaron-hernandez-out

the rich get richer

Me thinks the Winslow signing says more about the extent of Hernandez' injury than what we've been fed to date. Aaron's injury looked eerily similar to the high ankle sprain that Bernard Pollard gave to Gronk during the AFC Champ game in January...wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't see Aaron again for quite a while. Good news is we have proven alternatives for Tom until Winslow gets up to speed.

Speaking of Mr Pollard, aka "The Patriot Killer", does it make me a bad man if I hope he eats some spoiled Maryland crab before the big game on Sunday? Nothing life-threatening, just a bit of the 24 hr Montezuma's revenge:D

Son Of A Vidic

Mike912 wrote: »

Speaking of Mr Pollard, aka "The Patriot Killer", does it make me a bad man if I hope he eats some spoiled Maryland crab before the big game on Sunday? Nothing life-threatening, just a bit of the 24 hr Montezuma's revenge

No, not a bad man at all . After all, he has taken out three of our boys in succession. I'm just hoping that old saying - 'everything happens in threes' stands up, because that would mean he'll do no more damage.

Mike912

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

No, not a bad man at all . After all, he has taken out three of our boys in succession. I'm just hoping that old saying - 'everything happens in threes' stands up, because that would mean he'll do no more damage.

Looks a bit like Bernard's luck is running out, he has rib problems that may limit his effectiveness Sunday. Karma can be a wonderful thing.

This game will be a true test for the Patriots, no? The bad blood rivalry, last season's AFC Ch game, and 70,000 screaming Ravens fans wanting revenge all add up to a formidable task at hand.

BaronVon

It's gonna be a cracker on Sunday!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhbi5rtxsU&feature=youtu.be

Son Of A Vidic

Mike912 wrote: »

Looks a bit like Bernard's luck is running out, he has rib problems that may limit his effectiveness Sunday. Karma can be a wonderful thing.

I always take these pregame injury reports with a pinch of salt. But it would be karma alright, if he takes the field and gets sidelined while playing against us.

CoachTO

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I always take these pregame injury reports with a pinch of salt. But it would be karma alright, if he takes the field and gets sidelined while playing against us.

Same here. Just look at the Pats how many times over the last 11 years has Tom Brady been on the list and other Key Pats players.

Goose_Hyypia

CoachTO wrote: »

Same here. Just look at the Pats how many times over the last 11 years has Tom Brady been on the list and other Key Pats players.

What is the thinking about putting players like Brady on the injury report even though its probably 90% he will play ?

Obviously there is some thinking behind it.

Mike912

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I always take these pregame injury reports with a pinch of salt. But it would be karma alright, if he takes the field and gets sidelined while playing against us.

Can't decide which would make me happier, Gronk toasting Pollard for 3 scores or rugby star turned footballer Nate Ebner cleaning Mr Pollard's clock on a special teams play.

OT: Corvus, how'd you become a Pats fan?

Mike912

Goose_Hyypia wrote: »

What is the thinking about putting players like Brady on the injury report even though its probably 90% he will play ?

Obviously there is some thinking behind it.

Belichick being Belichick. If he includes Tom on the injured list every Friday for some non-descript injury, he satisfies the NFL injury report requirement without disclosing any recent injury. Belichick is playing chess while the NFL is playing checkers.

CoachTO

Goose_Hyypia wrote: »

What is the thinking about putting players like Brady on the injury report even though its probably 90% he will play ?

Obviously there is some thinking behind it.

Your opponent sets their gameplans around certain players. By putting key players on the list the hope is your opponent plans for the what if or gets a false sense of security about the situation and bam game comes along and your key player is fine. Its nonsense really. I really doubt anyone falls for it anymore.

CoachTO

Mike912 wrote: »

Can't decide which would make me happier, Gronk toasting Pollard for 3 scores or rugby star turned footballer Nate Ebner cleaning Mr Pollard's clock on a special teams play.

OT: Corvus, how'd you become a Pats fan?

More chance of Gronk doing it Pollard doesn't play special teams for the most part. And if he is carrying any sort of injury our dreams of Ebner cleaning him out will be dashed.

Son Of A Vidic

Mike912 wrote: »

OT: Corvus, how'd you become a Pats fan?

Been a Pats fan since around 1984, I was also a big Joe Montana fan and supported the 49er's as my second team. But the pain of the Bears SB defeat in 1986, only strengthened my bond for The Pats and it's been undying loyalty ever since.

CoachTO

Mike912 wrote: »

Belichick being Belichick. If he includes Tom on the injured list every Friday for some non-descript injury, he satisfies the NFL injury report requirement without disclosing any recent injury. Belichick is playing chess while the NFL is playing checkers.

In the past it was a great move but not so much anymore. Most coaches are like us when reading those reports these days. They wont believe it until right before kick off when the inactives are announced.

JaMarcus Hustle

CoachTO wrote: »

Your opponent sets their gameplans around certain players. By putting key players on the list the hope is your opponent plans for the what if or gets a false sense of security about the situation and bam game comes along and your key player is fine. Its nonsense really. I really doubt anyone falls for it anymore.

Didn't Brady appear as Questionable on the injury report every week for a few years up until some stage last year? It seemed to be a long running joke by Belichick, in his own unique way of taking the piss out of the media. I wonder why he stopped - I remember there being a lot of surprise when Brady's name was no longer on it!