Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Big Nelly

Digifriendly wrote: »

Is that with Ryle Nugent tone?

It always has to be, in Bristol recently with loads of Welsh fans watching the match, when he scored first we had to explain our roar! 20 Irish lads on stag, when he scored next we had the whole pub roaring it:D

Wales love Tommy....not one of them had a bad word against him, apart from his flying over there houses!!!:eek:

jm08

I am pie wrote: »

Go on, how do you think it has changed ? Explain...

in an article in the irish times a few weeks back paul mcnaughton stated that the IRFU directly pays part of the salary for non-Irish qualified players (and if they are paying directly non-irish qualified players, they are paying the same for irish qualified players). that would suggest that they employees of the irfu. you'd expect the irfu to issue a press release about players who play for ireland regularly anyway (and them doing it that way means that there will be less outrage from the fans when they know their fav. players has lost their international (central) contract .

how has it changed:

1) reduction in the no of international contracts- used be about 30. players like sean o'brien and gordon d'arcy who are ireland starters don't have one. seems to me the really key players like brian O'driscoll, Mike ross, paul o'connell, sexton and a few other key players are on international contracts.

2) I think its a good thing because it means that instead of stockpiling players they may have an abundance of as it doesn't cost the provinces anything, who will get a contribution from the IRFU rather than the full whack and the province involved will have to top them up.

Not sure why everyone is getting so uptight about this, but why would the irfu change the format of their press releases in a month (between paul o'connell and earls/leamy)?

You would also have to think how Leamy would get a central/international contract when sean o'brien didn't.

jm08

JustinDee wrote: »

The press-release is an IRFU release as he is centrally contracted to the union.

all players playing for the provinces are actually contracted to the irfu as the provinces are just branches. i might be working in Tesco in Dundrum, but my employer would be Tesco Ireland.

Difference between bowe & roger wilson is that bowe also plays rugby for ireland and is in ireland camp at the moment.

irishbucsfan

Tommy Bowe agreed to an offer of a central contract a little while ago.

The last thing to be agreed was his release from Ospreys (which was a clause in his contract that was dependent on some factors or other that I don't know anything about) I think.

Its absolutely an IRFU deal.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

(and if they are paying directly non-irish qualified players, they are paying the same for irish qualified players).

Where did you get this gem of logic from?

Anyway, as mentioned above, you're wrong. You're reading far too much into the precise wording of the press release.

Big Nelly

jm08 wrote: »

in an article in the irish times a few weeks back paul mcnaughton stated that the IRFU directly pays part of the salary for non-Irish qualified players (and if they are paying directly non-irish qualified players, they are paying the same for irish qualified players). that would suggest that they employees of the irfu. you'd expect the irfu to issue a press release about players who play for ireland regularly anyway (and them doing it that way means that there will be less outrage from the fans when they know their fav. players has lost their international (central) contract .

how has it changed:

1) reduction in the no of international contracts- used be about 30. players like sean o'brien and gordon d'arcy who are ireland starters don't have one. seems to me the really key players like brian O'driscoll, Mike ross, paul o'connell, sexton and a few other key players are on international contracts.

2) I think its a good thing because it means that instead of stockpiling players they may have an abundance of as it doesn't cost the provinces anything, who will get a contribution from the IRFU rather than the full whack and the province involved will have to top them up.

Not sure why everyone is getting so uptight about this, but why would the irfu change the format of their press releases in a month (between paul o'connell and earls/leamy)?

You would also have to think how Leamy would get a central/international contract when sean o'brien didn't.

Is this the same article where they stated it would be better for IRFU that Sexton and Heaslip went to france so Ireland wouldnt have to pay there wages but play them for Ireland?

Its a pile of c**p. They have cut down players but do you honestly think the european player of the year, O'Brien, who everyone in the World cup raved about is not on a IRFU contract?

What the article and what the IRFU where saying was less of fridge players would no longer be included, TOL who has a major problem apart from injury getting near the Ireland squad would no longer be included. Remember he is only in cause Boss is in NZ. Anyway this has nothing to do with Ulster, fair play to them and I know I will love the Leinster/Ulster matchs next season

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Where did you get this gem of logic from?

Anyway, as mentioned above, you're wrong. You're reading far too much into the precise wording of the press release.

I think its an easy assumption to make that if ireland is paying a certainly amount directly to isa nacewa (niq), they are an irish qualified player like fionn carr (irish qualified) as well.

do you think they would pay isa directly, but not fionn carr directly?

irishbucsfan

Big Nelly wrote: »

Its a pile of c**p. They have cut down players but do you honestly think the european player of the year, O'Brien, who everyone in the World cup raved about is not on a IRFU contract?

Is O'Brien on an central contract? Don't think he is.

jm08

Big Nelly wrote: »

Is this the same article where they stated it would be better for IRFU that Sexton and Heaslip went to france so Ireland wouldnt have to pay there wages but play them for Ireland?

Its a pile of c**p. They have cut down players but do you honestly think the european player of the year, O'Brien, who everyone in the World cup raved about is not on a IRFU contract?

What the article and what the IRFU where saying was less of fridge players would no longer be included, TOL who has a major problem apart from injury getting near the Ireland squad would no longer be included. Remember he is only in cause Boss is in NZ. Anyway this has nothing to do with Ulster, fair play to them and I know I will love the Leinster/Ulster matchs next season

read the article for yourself.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0128/1224310865799.html

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

I think its an easy assumption to make that if ireland is paying a certainly amount directly to isa nacewa (niq), they are an irish qualified player like fionn carr (irish qualified) as well.

It's not an easy assumption at all, it's a nonsensical one.

The IRFU provide the first €100k (or something like that) of an NIQ's salary as they are generally the most expensive players on the province's books. The highest paid Irish players will all (or nearly all) be centrally contracted so the province won't be paying for them at all. Fionn Carr is on a fair amount less then Nacewa so the Leinster Branch can perfectly afford to pay him themselves.

Anyway, this is all silly. It's been confirmed Bowe is on a central contract.

JustinDee

jm08 wrote: »

all players playing for the provinces are actually contracted to the irfu as the provinces are just branches. i might be working in Tesco in Dundrum, but my employer would be Tesco Ireland.

Difference between bowe & roger wilson is that bowe also plays rugby for ireland and is in ireland camp at the moment.

A "central contract" is a contract underwritten by the IRFU and is awarded to an international player playing in an Irish province. National team budget and is outside of match fees/bonuses etc.

A "provincial contract" is just that. A contract underwritten by a branch of the IRFU for a player to play for said province. Provincial budget and nothing else.

Hope that clarifies for you.

jacothelad

jm08 wrote: »

I think its an easy assumption to make that if ireland is paying a certainly amount directly to isa nacewa (niq), they are an irish qualified player like fionn carr (irish qualified) as well.

do you think they would pay isa directly, but not fionn carr directly?

It might be easy for you to make that assumption. It would be totally wrong. It's really very simple.

In order to facilitate the signing of certain - but not all - 'marquee' players, i.e. those whose value to a province would extend beyond the norm, such as Nacewa, Botha, Howlett, the IRFU subsidises their salaries by a substantial amount.

The IRFU recognises the part these players take in the success of the teams. Progression in the Heineken Cup with the efforts of these imports for example brings in far more than is paid out to top up their salary. The team have to pay the rest of 'his' dosh through their own funds/sponsorship etc.

There are other imports who do not get paid by the IRFU. Those of a lower standing or on shorter contracts. Other players also don't get paid directly by the Union all be it a fact that the teams are part of it.

As for your posts on International / Central contracts - I can hear the sound of air rushing in from here.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not an easy assumption at all, it's a nonsensical one.

The IRFU provide the first €100k (or something like that) of an NIQ's salary as they are generally the most expensive players on the province's books. The highest paid Irish players will all (or nearly all) be centrally contracted so the province won't be paying for them at all. Fionn Carr is on a fair amount less then Nacewa so the Leinster Branch can perfectly afford to pay him themselves.

Anyway, this is all silly. It's been confirmed Bowe is on a central contract.

leinster only have isa as an expensive niq player, munster would have botha & howlett. Ulster would have afoa, muller & pienaar on big money. the rest of the niq are fairly modest signings.

i doubt if sean o'brien is suffering financially for not being on a 'central contract' and whats to stop the irfu from contributing more to sean o'brien than they would to fionn carr?

bowe (like leamy & earls) may be on a 'central contract' but I think it might be different to the contract that sexton, heislip and paul o'connell are on - an 'international contract'.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

bowe (like leamy & earls) may be on a 'central contract' but I think it might be different to the contract that sexton, heislip and paul o'connell are on - an 'international contract'.

It's not.

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

It might be easy for you to make that assumption. It would be totally wrong. It's really very simple.

In order to facilitate the signing of certain - but not all - 'marquee' players, i.e. those whose value to a province would extend beyond the norm, such as Nacewa, Botha, Howlett, the IRFU subsidises their salaries by a substantial amount.

The IRFU recognises the part these players take in the success of the teams. Progression in the Heineken Cup with the efforts of these imports for example brings in far more than is paid out to top up their salary. The team have to pay the rest of 'his' dosh through their own funds/sponsorship etc.

There are other imports who do not get paid by the IRFU. Those of a lower standing or on shorter contracts. Other players also don't get paid directly by the Union all be it a fact that the teams are part of it.

As for your posts on International / Central contracts - I can hear the sound of air rushing in from here.

your waffling on about signing niq marquee players which was simply brought up to say that paul mcnaughton claimed in an article that the IRFU pay an amount directly to niq players (and by implication means they could be said to have a contract with the irfu).

this is the announcement from the irfu - no where does it mention that bowe signed a 'central' contract, unlike paul o'connell and the rest of them that he has signed an 'international' contract.

Following agreement from his current club the Ospreys, Tommy Bowe has been given early release from his contract with the club to allow him to take up a new contract with the IRFU and to play in Ulster for the next three seasons.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

this is the announcement from the irfu - no where does it mention that bowe signed a 'central' contract, unlike paul o'connell and the rest of them that he has signed an 'international' contract.

Yeah, but Justin has said he signed he central contract and he works for the IRFU...

jm08

JustinDee wrote: »

A "central contract" is a contract underwritten by the IRFU and is awarded to an international player playing in an Irish province. National team budget and is outside of match fees/bonuses etc.

A "provincial contract" is just that. A contract underwritten by a branch of the IRFU for a player to play for said province. Provincial budget and nothing else.

Hope that clarifies for you.

Can you clarify what an "international" contract is then please?

and what is the difference between it and a central contract?

JustinDee

jm08 wrote: »

Can you clarify what an "international" contract is then please?

and what is the difference between it and a central contract?

There is no difference.
A central contract is an international contract. You are getting caught-up on needless semantics.

You could take it even further if you like (needlessly). The actual wording of the press release states "a new contract with the IRFU", which is the same as a "central contract" and thus is the same an "international contract".

Big Nelly

jm08 wrote: »

read the article for yourself.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0128/1224310865799.html

All your information is based on one article? haha, 2 pages of arguing with everyone over your so called information. Its a paper, imagine this.......now wait.....they may write a story to sell papers???

jm08

JustinDee wrote: »

There is no difference.
A central contract is an international contract. You are getting caught-up on needless semantics.

You could take it even further if you like (needlessly). The actual wording of the press release states "a new contract with the IRFU", which is the same as a "central contract" and thus is the same an "international contract".

the devil is in the detail. Even Humprehys thanks the IRFU for "their assistance" in bringing bowe back. i'd expect the irfu to be very careful how they word stuff.

I was looking for a reference to 'central contracts' from the irfu and I couldn't find one. Couldn't find one to 'Provincial' contract either. I've seen references to international contract is with paul oconnel, brian odriscoll and a few really key players.

it will be interesting to see how d'arcy's new contract is announced as we know he lost his 'central' contract the last time.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

the devil is in the detail. Even Humprehys thanks the IRFU for "their assistance" in bringing bowe back. i'd expect the irfu to be very careful how they word stuff.

I was looking for a reference to 'central contracts' from the irfu and I couldn't find one. Couldn't find one to 'Provincial' contract either. I've seen references to international contract is with paul oconnel, brian odriscoll and a few really key players.

it will be interesting to see how d'arcy's new contract is announced as we know he lost his 'central' contract the last time.

The guy works for the IRFU! I'm sure he has some idea what he's going on about.

jm08

Big Nelly wrote: »

All your information is based on one article? haha, 2 pages of arguing with everyone over your so called information. Its a paper, imagine this.......now wait.....they may write a story to sell papers???

no

i only used a quote from that article that paul mcnaughton made about the irfu relationship with niq players.

paul mcnaughton is the recently retired ireland team manager. before that he was the leinster team manager so i'd expect he would know what he is talking about. Philip lee is a solicitor (not a journalist).

irishbucsfan

Ulster would have to be unbelievably generous to let Bowe's contract come out of their budget and then also let the IRFU score all the PR points for it!

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

The guy works for the IRFU! I'm sure he has some idea what he's going on about.

and it wouldn't be in the interests of the irfu to be a bit waffly about who has/has not international contracts then, particularly if the players involved are popular with the fans

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

and it wouldn't be in the interests of the irfu to be a bit waffly about who has/has not international contracts then, particularly if the players involved are popular with the fans

The whole point is that he is saying they do have international contracts.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

and it wouldn't be in the interests of the irfu to be a bit waffly about who has/has not international contracts then, particularly if the players involved are popular with the fans

Ooookay...

I am pie

jm08 wrote: »

and it wouldn't be in the interests of the irfu to be a bit waffly about who has/has not international contracts then, particularly if the players involved are popular with the fans

Well, seemingly they've only confused one person. You.

Look, at this stage I think it's pretty clear there are 2 contract tiers. One is central/international - one is provincial.

At this stage it looks to me that your trying to take a little bit of shine off the announcement in the most semantic way possible...which is coming across as a little bizarre !

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ulster would have to be unbelievably generous to let Bowe's contract come out of their budget and then also let the IRFU score all the PR points for it!

How are the irfu scoring all the pr points. have you seen the length of the ulster press release

I don't think it would happen like that anyway - irfu would pay a fair bit, but the province would have to top it up.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ulster would have to be unbelievably generous to let Bowe's contract come out of their budget and then also let the IRFU score all the PR points for it!

How are the irfu scoring all the pr points. have you seen the length of the ulster press release

I don't think it would happen like that anyway - irfu would pay a fair bit, but the province would have to top it up.

In this crazy world that you are living in where Tommy Bowe has not just been contracted to the IRFU.

jm08

I am pie wrote: »

Well, seemingly they've only confused one person. You.

Look, at this stage I think it's pretty clear there are 2 contract tiers. One is central/international - one is provincial.

At this stage it looks to me that your trying to take a little bit of shine off the announcement in the most semantic way possible...which is coming across as a little bizarre !

i'm not the confused one around here

irfu have not mentioned 'central' or 'provincial' - just contracts or international contracts.

Leave it lads, its too taxing for you. i'll wait and see how darcy's is announced (assuming that he won't be getting a central/international contract).