2013; Eat my dust Meno!

RayCun

digger2d2 wrote: »

On a serious note, with Berlin in September being her goal race would an easy 3:59 26.2 in May be all that different to a hard raced 1.35 13.1?

I think yes, but I'm also wondering if there is any logic to your race choices at all? Why race that half marathon? Are you planning to do any specific training for it? Is it a goal race?
You're improving rapidly anyway, and this year you can expect that whatever races you do, you'll PB in. That doesn't mean you should do every marathon or half-marathon that catches your eye! If your goal race for the year is Berlin, work back from that, decide what training you need to do when, and pick your races based on your training. Don't sign up for a bunch of races and try to fit your training around them. You'll still get a PB in Berlin, no doubt, but not the PB you could have had.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

I think yes, but I'm also wondering if there is any logic to your race choices at all? Why race that half marathon? Are you planning to do any specific training for it? Is it a goal race?

I mentioned I had a free place in kildare (since I'm pacing the Half) after the MSB 5k. The rest is history

TheRoadRunner

digger2d2 wrote: »

On a serious note, with Berlin in September being her goal race would an easy 3:59 26.2 in May be all that different to a hard raced 1.35 13.1?

I don't know claralara so this is just my generic view.

Absolutely nothing to be gained from 4hr LSR at this stage, she could probably do it on her own if she wanted. However targeting a fast HM could help focus training going into the Summer. Maybe 1.35 won't be that easy and may point to the fact that speed endurance needs to be worked on, alternatively 1.35 could get blown out of the water and a stiffer marathon target time may need to be fixed.

I think Kildare is a perfect time to run a half marathon (start of 4 month marathon cycle), get a time on the board and devise your marathon plan around this. Then come August race Longford half (for example) and one can gauge progress and then make a realistic prediction for Berlin.

belcarra

+1 to TRR.
I think that because Kildare is at the very start/before you begin a Berlin training cycle that effectively you can race the 1/2 Marathon or jog the full and neither will impact on your actual training for Berlin. As TRR says though you will get useful data if you race the 1/2.

Of course perhaps you are more interested in taking the scenic route around the Curragh via the full instead? No harm in that either as you will be well capable of continuing your training without any big impact.

If this conundrum was to occur in mid July then I'd suggest ditching the full and racing the half, but seeing as it's only May you still have the choice of either IMO!

digger2d2

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I don't know claralara so this is just my generic view.

Absolutely nothing to be gained from 4hr LSR at this stage, she could probably do it on her own if she wanted. However targeting a fast HM could help focus training going into the Summer. Maybe 1.35 won't be that easy and may point to the fact that speed endurance needs to be worked on, alternatively 1.35 could get blown out of the water and a stiffer marathon target time may need to be fixed.

I think Kildare is a perfect time to run a half marathon (start of 4 month marathon cycle), get a time on the board and devise your marathon plan around this. Then come August race Longford half (for example) and one can gauge progress and then make a realistic prediction for Berlin.

I thought I knew her very well until she fcuked off up the Leenanne Hill and left me trailing 36 minutes in her wake.

Point taken re the half

digger2d2

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll wait to see what the two lads say

shels4ever wrote: »

what have you done with the real menoscemo .

Better get back onto talking about Kinvara's so he can voice an opinion of his own again :D

digger2d2

menoscemo wrote: »

I mentioned I had a free place in kildare (since I'm pacing the Half) after the MSB 5k. The rest is history

More idle talk over pints if I remember correctly

digger2d2

RayCun wrote: »

I think yes, but I'm also wondering if there is any logic to your race choices at all? Why race that half marathon? Are you planning to do any specific training for it? Is it a goal race?
You're improving rapidly anyway, and this year you can expect that whatever races you do, you'll PB in. That doesn't mean you should do every marathon or half-marathon that catches your eye! If your goal race for the year is Berlin, work back from that, decide what training you need to do when, and pick your races based on your training. Don't sign up for a bunch of races and try to fit your training around them. You'll still get a PB in Berlin, no doubt, but not the PB you could have had.

I think that's the point Ray, I'm equally guilty, we've trained specifically (Hal Higdon and P&D) for a couple of Marathons and an Ultra and during that training we've raced some shorter distances without really doing any speedwork, fartlek, progression, hills etc. etc. This is the main reason we considered joining a club. Our race choices typically come about based on what the other Boardsies are doing and what fits in around work/holiday/family etc. There is a random-ness to those selections that most likely needs changing in order to maximise potential.

CL has improved immensely over the last six months and I believe she has some engine in her to go considerably faster at every distance, despite being an old fart I know I still have a rake of improvement in me too. So, this is why we are seeking out better ways to do things than just pounding out miles.

RayCun

digger2d2 wrote: »

Our race choices typically come about based on what the other Boardsies are doing and what fits in around work/holiday/family etc. There is a random-ness to those selections that most likely needs changing in order to maximise potential.

I'm not so different myself - my race plan this year is basically, "eh, what does the BHAA have scheduled?" But I allow myself that on the basis that they are all shorter races, and I don't have an A goal to shape my year around. If you're going to travel to Berlin for the marathon, it seems like that should be the focus of all your training and racing for the next six months.

shels4ever

RayCun wrote: »

I'm not so different myself - my race plan this year is basically, "eh, what does the BHAA have scheduled?" But I allow myself that on the basis that they are all shorter races, and I don't have an A goal to shape my year around. If you're going to travel to Berlin for the marathon, it seems like that should be the focus of all your training and racing for the next six months.

Yep I would agree but then again it's a hobby for people and if people like running every marathon they can thats a good thing also. Its a balance between setting one big target and training before that, but if you don't enjoy yourself along the way , whats the point.

It all comes down to what do you want from running at the end of the day. If you enjoy racing lots then race lots, if you want to run really in a target race then target that.

RayCun

That's why I'm not running a marathon this year

(the other reason is that OH wasn't too pleased about the long training runs - but I think the extra races are probably taking up more time)

menoscemo

shels4ever wrote: »

what have you done with the real menoscemo .

What :eek:
I think someone in the office has been hacking my account

Oisin11178

Right lads you have given the woman tonnes of advice, now give her a chance to digest it all.
Orna do whatever you enjoy and makes you happy.

TheRoadRunner

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Right lads you have given the woman tonnes of advice, now give her a chance to digest it all.
Orna do whatever you enjoy and makes you happy.

I'd agree with this sentiment. It is a hobby at the end of the day, not as important as a career decision etc.

claralara

My silence on my log this afternoon was an unfortunate result of being busy in work, not me cowering in fear from the big boys

I'm enjoying the discussion and interested to hear what people have to say. As I've said, I know I have a lot to learn. However, I'm well able to stand my ground so don't be worried about overloading me - I'm a big girl and will consider everything sensibly and make my plans accordingly

In other news, may I digress and update my log running-wise..

Wednesday 11th April
5.05 @ 8:25
A nice run home from work - first commute run since Conn taper. Twas nice to run by the horrrible bus as it was stuck in traffic! This was supposed to be more recovery and less pacey but my feckin legs just wouldn't stop. Was at about 8:15 average up to mile 4 and had to beat myself to put the brakes on... This is typical of not following a plan at the minute where you know recovery has to be recovery so as not to jeopardise the next hard session.

Thursday 12th April - My first club session
Headed down to Sportsworld in Terenure with Digdig as we've decided to join a club to advance with some proper structured group training. There was a good crowd there - lovely folk.
The plan was a fartlek session - something which I've never attempted. The loop is a great loop in Bushy Park of exactly 2 miles. I set off not really knowing what to do, with my main instruction being to get a feel for the route and the type of session; and not to kill myself first time round. I have to say, I felt pretty good. Not a bother on the legs, breathing was heavier than it was during ultra training but not painfull. And I think I was up to good level; as in I wasn't left for dust. Emily Dowling was lovely and really helpful; I didn't feel like an unwelcome outsider at all. She even mentioned something about getting me running with a team and told me she'd be after me.... Next session is a speed one on Tuesday which I shall try out.

1mile w/u @ 8:45
4mile fartlek @ 7:30 average
1 mile w/d @ 9:30

Really enjoyed this!!

Cutex

There is some serious racing talk going on in this log! As long as you've been practicing your screaming, arm waving & general lunacy for Saturday week all will be well

RayCun

claralara wrote: »

She even mentioned something about getting me running with a team and told me she'd be after me

There's supposed to be one of these races on next week I think, they're still trying to sort a venue

tunguska

claralara wrote: »

In terms of the Kildare Marathon, I suppose I may have gotten carried away with the buzz and the excitement over the last few months, prompting me to make decisions re events that, upon proper reflection, are a bit foolish. After all of the really tough training and races 6/12 months ago, it's easy to understand how I might well lose sight of ultimate goals at the expense of short term results. I also think that the Ultra training may be causing me to underestimate the severity of distance - not that I disrespect 26.2 miles and its effect on the body, just that it seems like a good run and not the insurmountable Everest that it was before.

So I understand what you're saying about racing the marathon and have decided that it is a bad idea. I might as well just focus on trashing my marathon PB in Berlin instead. Is there any merit in running the distance at a really easy pace just for the day out seeing as I've entered it now? Or it would it make more sense to try drop back to the HM? Or would you be advising that I give it a miss altogether.

I really do appreciate the opinions, so thanks.

Fair play for being open minded and listening to what the lads are advising, I know other people(Myself in included)who just wont listen.
Anyway personally I think the HM is the way to go. Like RR said you can race it flat out and that'll give you a starting point to work off for Berlin. You could race the HM then plug your time into mcmillian and that'll give you a rough idea of where you're at. After that You could start to build up the mileage but at the same time do speed sessions with sportsworld. Do plenty of 5 and 10ks aswell, really get some raw speed into your legs. Dont want to get too heavy on the science but running fast increases the number of motor units that your brain is able to access which leads to greater muscle activation whch leads to faster running again. So that by the time you come to your marathon paced sessions and the marathon itself you'll have activated a load of muscles you never would have used by just running slow and long.
I do understand your point about it being fun though. You dont want it to become a chore or joyless. There is a freedom in just running, I mean its what we were designed to do, the human body was designed for movement and to live in accordance with your true nature is happiness personified. But theres another kind of enjoyment that goes with running in a structured way. It can seem daunting to face into a speed session but what you get in return is something special in itself. Plus theres the competition with yourself and others which adds another level of enjoyment. I mean give it a go, be structured for a while see how it goes, if you dont like it you can always go back to the other way and you'll have lost nothing in the meantime.

Mr Slow

tunguska wrote: »

You dont want it to become a chore or joyless.

Absolutely! Motivation comes from enjoying what you're doing.

claralara

Thanks Tunguska. Every bit of your post noted and appreciated. Would actually find the scientific part pretty interesting – always willing to learn and be learned!

Friday 13th April
Rest
Seeing as I have no plan at the minute, this was neither a planned nor unplanned rest day I was heading away for the weekend, and the legs were feeling Thursday’s club session so I made the sensible decision, and enjoyed a day off. Have to keep reminding myself that my poor body ran almost 40 miles in one go less than 3 weeks ago and to give it a break. The pain in the legs after the session was a good pain, not an injury pain. I’d say it was a combination of the different training, and the fact I wore my new Kinvaras (I’ve been a Nike Pegasus long distance girl to date). Just realised this most likely activated muscles that haven’t been challenged in a while and attests to the contents of Tunguska’s post above!

Saturday 14th April
5 @ 9:42
This was a very beachy, very windy run – perfect for keeping the pace well down to recovery pace (and then some!), but pretty testing nonetheless. Digs and I had gone for a walk on the beach and, despite my original idea to run on the beach in the afternoon, the wind and the sand/stones underfoot had changed my mind and I stated in no uncertain terms that my preference was that we do a hilly 5 miles instead. Naturally, therefore, we ended up running on the beach…. :rolleyes:! I must upload the run and get the elevation because my-oh-my did the house seem like it was a long way up the side of a mountain from the view of it from the beach! :eek: It was tough getting home but a good workout for the legs nonetheless. (ps I feel that I have to include the fact that it wasn’t a case of what goes down, must go up as we had walked down the first very steep bit!)

Sunday 15th April
5.5 @ 8:42
A really nice disciplined leg stretcher along by the dodder after a feed of homemade cupcakes and in advance of a steak and chip dinner...:o Legs felt great, lungs felt great – could have gone on for miles

Monday 16th April
Another planned unplanned planned rest day roll eyes Am currently in the process of getting myself together… which will get me through a couple of (what I’m terming) ‘benchmark races’ in a pretty short period of time (about a month), and should lead into getting stuck into the Berlin training plan proper!!

Hitting the club again this evening and I’m really looking forward to it I think it’ll be a speed session so repeats of some distance between 400m and 1 mile. I love a surprise; who needs a kinder egg?!

My second pair of birthday runners arrived this morning in the form of white/pink/orange (don’t judge me, I’m colourblind!!) Lunaracers. I’m running the K Club 10K on Saturday so need to think about a plan for that… both in terms of pace and attire!

claralara

RayCun wrote: »

There's supposed to be one of these races on next week I think, they're still trying to sort a venue

Don't think it'd happen that quickly... I'm good, but I'm not that good Haha!

RayCun

claralara wrote: »

Don't think it'd happen that quickly... I'm good, but I'm not that good Haha!

The meet and trains aren't too competitive, from what I hear. Fast at the front, maybe, but slower runners too. I think Sportsworld put in a few teams so I'm sure they'll want to throw you in, see what you can do...

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

There's supposed to be one of these races on next week I think, they're still trying to sort a venue

That was cancelled before you even made that post :pac: The summer league is a bit of a mess. Shame because I missed the winter league now they keep rearranging the summer races for crap dates.

claralara

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That was cancelled before you even made that post :pac: The summer league is a bit of a mess. Shame because I missed the winter league now they keep rearranging the summer races for crap dates.

What is it with me and ‘outdated-ness’…!!

claralara

Tuesday 17th April
5 @ 9:15
Ran out from work to Bushy Park for the club session. Probably not the greatest decision in anticipation of a speed session but it suited me, and it was a chance to get a bit of mileage in this week - it's going to be low again with the 10K race on Saturday. Everything felt good and comfortable. Note to self - take the 4 mile route from now on and don't try to be clever looking for a short cut that actually adds an unnecessary mile…

Club Session
1.9 w/u @ 8:34
2.43 @ 6:42 - this was a time trial of a loop the club runs regularly. It's basically the Rathfranham 5k but doesn't go back down the hill at springfield for the extra half mile. It was tough enough but enjoyable. I wasn't sure how to approach it and ended up going pretty hard. Had my eye on a couple of girls that I wanted to stay with; but feeling good coming to the Rathfarnham crossroads, I overtook them and managed to shake them on the hill back up to Terenure (thank you Connemara ). Two guys had passed me with just under a mile to go so I was doing my best to hang on to them. Lost one of them but had the other within 50/60 metres until I put the boot down with about 50m to go and we crossed the line together in 16:13. I'd be lying if I said it was easy - tough effort! Don't know how much further I'd have had that pace in me… Will be interesting to run the loop in another while and gauge progress.
1.73 w/d @ 9:10
Another enjoyable session. There is not a hope in hell that I would have pushed like that if I was out on my own training. Happy out

Total c. 6miles

Wednesday 18th April
Rest
As I said the other day, there are pros and cons of not having a plan at the minute. I could have (if I really had to/wanted to) gone out yesterday but was at a conference in the morning, didn't get a lunch break away from the desk, had plans to meet some people after work, went to get the keys for the new digs, fancied a couple of glasses of red wine (excuses! )…so I didn't bother stressing about running. Was feeling the session in the legs so a recovery run probably wouldn’t have gone astray but I might as well lap up the way things are at the minute.

Thursday 19th April
4.1 @ 9:53
The first 6am run in a few weeks. Was very creaky and stiff but I suppose that's just the way it is straight out of bed. Legs felt heavy and it didn't feel wonderfully easy. I could have pushed the pace a wee bit but I decided to keep it a proper disciplined recovery. It wasn't confidence instilling though…

Will do an easy 2 mile loosener or summit tomorrow morning.

Left leg hasn't been feeling wonderful - a bit shin splinty / tweaky behind the knee / uncomfortable to walk but fine running - so am a little concerned (though it feels a whole lot better today and wasn’t at me this morning). My neck and shoulders are also in bits from a lot of time pinned to the desk / computer / sitting this week I'll just take it as easy as possible over the next 48 hours and hope for the best.

RayCun

claralara wrote: »

There is not a hope in hell that I would have pushed like that if I was out on my own training.

Pushing yourself, and being pushed, will bring you on, but you also have to keep an eye on the balance of your training. These sessions should be hard but not race effort (not all the time anyway) and if you're working harder here remember to ease off elsewhere...

claralara

RayCun wrote: »

Pushing yourself, and being pushed, will bring you on, but you also have to keep an eye on the balance of your training. These sessions should be hard but not race effort (not all the time anyway) and if you're working harder here remember to ease off elsewhere...

Yep noted. That's why I rested yesterday and took it very easy this morning. I know I need to get my head around training paces etc but all that work and the compilation of a training plan is for next week

pistol_75

Have you worked out which singlet your allowed wear on Saturday yet? :rolleyes:

chinguetti

claralara wrote: »

Wednesday 18th April
went to get the keys for the new digs,

What the heck happened the old digs? I thought he was a nice fella.;)

When's the house party???

belcarra

claralara wrote: »

Had my eye on a couple of girls that I wanted

Is that bet still outstanding Digger??:D