Men in relationships

G86

Kimia wrote: »

I've literally been there when girls have flung themselves at my boyfriend and it is horrible. But it's also really sad. How sad that they have to try and destroy someone else's happiness just to make themselves feel good. It's f*cked up really.

+1. I've had this happen twice with the same girl and 2 different guys! Total insecurity issue.

KyussBishop

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep and the usual reason is it often backfires. IMHO don't do this unless you know the other person well(and even then). Way too often the person being cheated on will defend the cheater and you will end up the bad guy/girl. Serial cheaters especially seem to have some 6th sense in who they pick for partners who will do this. They'll defend them out of a mixture of loyalty, shock and disbelief that they could miss this and they want everything back to "normal". It's like a self protection thing.

Even if they believe you, if the cheater claims it was a one off and that they were pursued and its all the other persons fault, a lot of the time the cheated on person buys into this. Again for emotional self protection. I was the other guy in a situation and the official partner knew damn well something was going on. Well unless he was clinically moronic. Well he was, I mean he saw me leave her gaff more than once when he went to pick her up for dates. I kid thee not gentle reader. I as so fascinated by this I really pushed it to see at what point would he react, but nope, he ignored it and from what I gather last time I heard he glosses over it still. Why? because he was a bit thick and she was "out of his league" so stupidly accepted the situation as part of that. Like I say, thick. This kinda stuff usually comes out in the end anyway, so unless the person is about to get hitched to the cheater I'd say nada.

As for getting involved? Don't. Nothing good will come of it. IF its a fling you want, yea fine you may think, but it'll come back and bite you in some way. If its something more you want? If their relationship is on the skids and he's lining up a new partner it may look more like a good thing, but beware. Past actions inform future ones more often than not, so if he'll do that to her, he'll do that to you. Even if he doesnt and you actually stayed together, that self centered thinking comes out in other ways. Its pretty much a given IMHO(unless they're 18 and actually have some learning to do).

My 3 cents anyway.

Fair enough, I agree that (depending on the person) there is a potential for it to backfire, and that may be a good reason not to (however, any backfiring could be relatively inconsequential, if you don't know them and cut contact after); what I disagree with though, is we don't know anything about the guys partner, what she is like, and if she would react that way.

I still think she should be warned if at all possible, even anonymously using a new email/facebook account or a letter (could even wait a few weeks or a month from now); even if she doesn't believe what is being said to her, it may raise her suspicions enough to start looking for evidence (e.g. texts/emails), and could still stop her from being hurt.

Dickheads like the guy in the OP deserve to be found out, and by keeping things secret it enables them; the only right thing to do here imo, isn't staying away from the guy, but staying away and telling his partner.

ciagr297

KyussBishop wrote: »

I still think she should be warned if at all possible, even anonymously using a new email/facebook account or a letter (could even wait a few weeks or a month from now); even if she doesn't believe what is being said to her, it may raise her suspicions enough to start looking for evidence (e.g. texts/emails), and could still stop her from being hurt.

Dickheads like the guy in the OP deserve to be found out, and by keeping things secret it enables them; the only right thing to do here imo, isn't staying away from the guy, but staying away and telling his partner.

+1 on some of this, know a guy who has been cheating on his girlfriend for as long as they have been together (4months) and he has actively made an effort to conceal his fcuking around.

i feel she should know the truth. he's being a complete a$$hole for not giving her the whole story and let her decide. who knows, she may still stay with him. most likely not

thing is, as Wibbs said earlier, if i were to confront her, she would openly back him up and make me out to be the one doing her wrong. and in a way, i would be.
i would be the one giving her the real story, destroying the illusion, confirming what she already knows (she's needy according to the boyf) so it really would be an extremely short term gain on my part.

but i really really really hope he trips up. c'mon karma, i know you can do it!

KyussBishop

Ya that's fair enough, my reasoning behind it though, isn't to have any personal gain from it or anything, it's simply to get the truth out, even if it may gain you no favors or may actively make both of them dislike you a lot.

You wouldn't be doing her wrong in any way there though, what she hears may hurt, but the longer she stays with him the longer she wastes a part of her life with an asshole who is screwing her around, and the longer he gets to betray her and abuse her trust.

You don't need to confront her exactly, an anonymous (so you're not personally involved past the initial warning) letter/email sent to her, just to warn her or raise suspicions, is worth doing even if she may not believe it; she could waste years of her time with the guy otherwise, she deserves better.

Also, if she is as insecure as she sounds, she may ignore or just not see the warning signs that her partner is messing around; much as Wibbs described above.

Wibbs

I guess my reasoning on these kinda things boils down to this; am I doing it for the sake of the other person so they can feel better, or am I doing it for my sake so I can feel better? Peoples relationships can be complex and weird things and unless its a friend I've found it's best to avoid getting involved in them.

LittleBook

KyussBishop wrote: »

I think that if he has made it obvious he is open to the idea, then his girlfriend deserves to know about it, because she is probably going to end up hurt in the future.

I know this is a very debatable suggestion, and it may be discarded pretty quickly, but I think you should warn her; it's wrong to leave her in that situation, with the possibility of getting hurt, not knowing the kind of person she is with.

If you keep it secret, in my opinion, you hold some responsibility for that if she gets hurt the future; unless there is a good reason not to tell her.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep and the usual reason is it often backfires

Plus, the guy in this situation hasn't actually done anything wrong that we know of. The OP was thinking about and she's (apparently) decided not to do anything about it, maybe he's the same.

Watch Minority Report.

KyussBishop

LittleBook wrote: »

Plus, the guy in this situation hasn't actually done anything wrong that we know of. The OP was thinking about and she's (apparently) decided not to do anything about it, maybe he's the same.

Watch Minority Report.

Heh, well all my posts are on the precondition that he has made it obvious that he is interested (though some of my posts are in reply to others, where cheating did happen).

If he has, it doesn't matter wether or not he's done anything, the intent and betrayal of trust is already there; it's easy to see his partner deserves to know about that, it's hardly like convicting him of thoughtcrime.

LittleBook

KyussBishop wrote: »

it doesn't matter wether or not he's done anything, the intent and betrayal of trust is already there; it's easy to see his partner deserves to know about that, it's hardly like convicting him of thoughtcrime.

It's interesting you bring up thoughtcrime ... you believe that if anyone thinks about cheating, their partner should be told?

Fair enough ... different people have different ideas about what constitutes a betrayal of trust.

In all honesty, if I (somehow) found out that my partner was thinking of cheating and then decided against it, I wouldn't exactly be handing him a golden star for not doing it. And I'd be very interested to know why he decided against it.

But advising someone to inform a (presumably) total stranger that they think her partner was considering cheating goes too far for me for several reasons, not least of which is the fact that he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

ciagr297

Wibbs wrote: »

I guess my reasoning on these kinda things boils down to this; am I doing it for the sake of the other person so they can feel better, or am I doing it for my sake so I can feel better? Peoples relationships can be complex and weird things and unless its a friend I've found it's best to avoid getting involved in them.

+1

so i'm deciding not to intentionally do anything....thats not to say if the opportunity presented itself...................:rolleyes:

of course, subtlety is the key. there are more ways than words to convey a message

eeeeexcellent (Mr.Burns style)

KyussBishop

LittleBook wrote: »

It's interesting you bring up thoughtcrime ... you believe that if anyone thinks about cheating, their partner should be told?

Fair enough ... different people have different ideas about what constitutes a betrayal of trust.

In all honesty, if I (somehow) found out that my partner was thinking of cheating and then decided against it, I wouldn't exactly be handing him a golden star for not doing it. And I'd be very interested to know why he decided against it.

But advising someone to inform a (presumably) total stranger that they think her partner was considering cheating goes too far for me for several reasons, not least of which is the fact that he hasn't actually done anything wrong.

You're misreading what I've said, I'm judging him by his actions not his thoughts.

It's implied from the OP (though not explicitly said, which is why what I've said is conditional), that the guy has indicated he is interested; that is what my posts are based on.
Who in their right mind would not want to know if their partner has indicated interest in cheating on them? (and how is that not a betrayal of trust?)

Remember, what I've said is conditional; I'm not commenting on a grey area where someone is thinking about cheating, I'm talking about if they have actively indicated an interest in it.
I don't agree that a partner should only be informed once they have already been cheated on, or that betrayal of trust only starts once a person is boning someone else.

ciagr297

KyussBishop wrote: »

I don't agree that a partner should only be informed once they have already been cheated on, or that betrayal of trust only starts once a person is boning someone else.

if i am reading this correctly, you are saying that there is more than physical cheating?
if so, then i think this tends to apply more to women in relationships who cheat than men in relationships who cheat.
usually when its the woman cheating, there is some sort of emotional cheating done as well

i said usually

KyussBishop

ciagr297 wrote: »

if i am reading this correctly, you are saying that there is more than physical cheating?
if so, then i think this tends to apply more to women in relationships who cheat than men in relationships who cheat.
usually when its the woman cheating, there is some sort of emotional cheating done as well

i said usually

Kind of yes, though what I mean is more about betrayal of trust; I think that starts before the actual cheating, and that the person in the OP might have already betrayed trust.

ciagr297

KyussBishop wrote: »

Kind of yes, though what I mean is more about betrayal of trust; I think that starts before the actual cheating, and that the person in the OP might have already betrayed trust.

i am inclined to agree but i don't think that it necessitates intervention into the relationship from an outsider.

i mean, it does depend on the level of communication between the couple, and the level of awareness of the person on the fact that they thought about cheating and what it means
it all gets very tricky for the people in the relationship to deal with, nevermind outsiders

personally, when i discovered that my boyf was cheating on me, i immediately thought "how many others" and "is it just bonking or are they emotionally involved?" - not that it made it any better

LittleBook

KyussBishop wrote: »

I don't agree that a partner should only be informed once they have already been cheated on, or that betrayal of trust only starts once a person is boning someone else.

Agreed, but there's a huge leap between thinking, even talking about something and actually doing anything and I don't see how you can judge someone by their "actions" when they haven't actually done anything.

And you've taken an implication from the OP and advised her directly to warn the other woman.

Your suggestion is not completely unrealistic but is so subjective and, in this case, based on so little information (the OP could be a complete fantasist ... no offence Pebbles ) that I can't agree with your recommendation.

Hey, you said it was "debatable"

KyussBishop

ciagr297 wrote: »

i am inclined to agree but i don't think that it necessitates intervention into the relationship from an outsider.

i mean, it does depend on the level of communication between the couple, and the level of awareness of the person on the fact that they thought about cheating and what it means
it all gets very tricky for the people in the relationship to deal with, nevermind outsiders

personally, when i discovered that my boyf was cheating on me, i immediately thought "how many others" and "is it just bonking or are they emotionally involved?" - not that it made it any better

Ya fair enough; I'm kind of taking things from the point of view, where the starting point is that the partner deserves to be informed, and trying to see if there are good reasons not to, rather than the other way around.

I think the main thing about my posts which has become so debatable, is that I don't really draw a clear line at what point a partner deserves to be informed (it's hard to); there are a lot of grey areas in between thinking about cheating, being receptive to the suggestion of cheating, planning it, acting on it etc..

LittleBook wrote: »

Agreed, but there's a huge leap between thinking, even talking about something and actually doing anything and I don't see how you can judge someone by their "actions" when they haven't actually done anything.

And you've taken an implication from the OP and advised her directly to warn the other woman.

Your suggestion is not completely unrealistic but is so subjective and, in this case, based on so little information (the OP could be a complete fantasist ... no offence Pebbles ) that I can't agree with your recommendation.

Hey, you said it was "debatable"

Yep, quite debatable

I mentioned a few times that what I said was conditional, i.e. if the guy indicated interest in cheating; I acknowledge that we don't know the whole situation, so put that condition on what I've been saying.

If that's true, then that is acting-on/doing-something, not just a thought, and what I've said follows (that his partner deserves to know etc.).

meriwether

28064212 wrote: »

Or they don't want to say it because they're ashamed of it?

Thats a potential runner. Ashamed to admit it does not equal 'the wrong choice' however.

28064212 wrote: »

Or they don't want to say because even if they do it, they know it's not a good idea? ?

Potentially.

28064212 wrote: »

Or the fact that there's what, about 20 posters here, so it's hardly an accurate reflection of the 2 million or so women in the country?

Thats exactly my point. This thread isn't reflective of reality - either because of the contributors, or that people are unwilling to communiate the truth.

28064212 wrote: »

Are you going to put forward an argument for the other side so? What is it? That maybe this guy is really her 'the one', so she should go for it? What argument is there that could possibly out-weigh the many, many reasons that she shouldn't?

I'd need to know more before I make a judgement. My in itial reaction is to be against this behaviour (breaking up a relationship, cheating) but there is the chance - remote as it is - that it may be the best decision for all involved. There is that chance.

28064212 wrote: »

Trying to fly off the top of a 20-story building generally isn't a good idea, you don't really need to hear both sides of the argument to make up your mind

I reject this analogy. It is not appropriate in this instance.

28064212

meriwether wrote: »

28064212 wrote: »

Or the fact that there's what, about 20 posters here, so it's hardly an accurate reflection of the 2 million or so women in the country?

Thats exactly my point. This thread isn't reflective of reality - either because of the contributors, or that people are unwilling to communiate the truth.

May. It may not be reflective of reality. The whole point of a discussion board is to have a discussion, and most people have said it's not a good idea, and many have put forward good reasons for that. No-one has put forward a reason it would be a good idea, including the OP

meriwether wrote: »

28064212 wrote: »

Are you going to put forward an argument for the other side so? What is it? That maybe this guy is really her 'the one', so she should go for it? What argument is there that could possibly out-weigh the many, many reasons that she shouldn't?

I'd need to know more before I make a judgement. My in itial reaction is to be against this behaviour (breaking up a relationship, cheating) but there is the chance - remote as it is - that it may be the best decision for all involved. There is that chance.

If there's an off-chance that the OP and her desired are a better relationship long-term than the current one, the answer is still not to break up that relationship by cheating.

meriwether wrote: »

28064212 wrote: »

Trying to fly off the top of a 20-story building generally isn't a good idea, you don't really need to hear both sides of the argument to make up your mind

I reject this analogy. It is not appropriate in this instance.

Why not? Don't you "need to know more before you make a judgement"? The building could be an inferno, and there might be a canopy that you have a very slim chance of making, or maybe suicide is the best option (there are rare cases where that's true). Yet if someone posts a thread asking if trying to fly off the top of a 20-story building is a good idea, the answer will be no.

meriwether

28064212 wrote: »

May. It may not be reflective of reality. The whole point of a discussion board is to have a discussion, and most people have said it's not a good idea, and many have put forward good reasons for that. No-one has put forward a reason it would be a good idea, including the OP.

It may indeed not be reflective of reality.

28064212 wrote: »

[If there's an off-chance that the OP and her desired are a better relationship long-term than the current one, the answer is still not to break up that relationship by cheating.

Probably not.
At least we're moving form the 'black is black' territory that we have seen thus far on this thread however.

28064212 wrote: »

[Why not? Don't you "need to know more before you make a judgement"? The building could be an inferno, and there might be a canopy that you have a very slim chance of making, or maybe suicide is the best option (there are rare cases where that's true). Yet if someone posts a thread asking if trying to fly off the top of a 20-story building is a good idea, the answer will be no.

The analogy is inappropriate and I'm not interested in exploring it further. Its not condusive to rational and mature conversation on this topic.

1_in_1,000,000

I happen to beleive in KARMA. A bit of fun woud be very hot but i beleive it would come back to bite me on the bum

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

May. It may not be reflective of reality. The whole point of a discussion board is to have a discussion, and most people have said it's not a good idea, and many have put forward good reasons for that. No-one has put forward a reason it would be a good idea, including the OP

meriwether wrote: »

It may indeed not be reflective of reality.

Then why did you make the black-is-black statement of "This thread isn't reflective of reality"?

Of course, whether it is or isn't reflective of reality is completely irrelevant to the discussion

28064212 wrote: »

If there's an off-chance that the OP and her desired are a better relationship long-term than the current one, the answer is still not to break up that relationship by cheating.

meriwether wrote: »

Probably not.
At least we're moving form the 'black is black' territory that we have seen thus far on this thread however.

Have you read the OP?

Pebbles! wrote: »

If there was an attraction between you and a man who was in a relationship would you do anything about it?
...
Neither of us want anything serious, just a bit of fun!

She provided all the relevant information, and was given many good reasons not to do it.

28064212 wrote: »

Why not? Don't you "need to know more before you make a judgement"? The building could be an inferno, and there might be a canopy that you have a very slim chance of making, or maybe suicide is the best option (there are rare cases where that's true). Yet if someone posts a thread asking if trying to fly off the top of a 20-story building is a good idea, the answer will be no.

meriwether wrote: »

The analogy is inappropriate and I'm not interested in exploring it further. Its not condusive to rational and mature conversation on this topic.

Actually, I made a very good case for why it is perfectly appropriate. You don't have to accept it as a good analogy, but the least you could do is attempt to say why you think it's an inappropriate analogy. Or can I just dismiss your entire argument and say it doesn't make any sense without explaining why?

Incidentally, what exactly is your argument? That she should get involved? That you have a reason why she should consider getting involved? That someone should be arguing for her to get involved?

meriwether

28064212 wrote: »

Then why did you make the black-is-black statement of "This thread isn't reflective of reality"?

Because if it refelcted reality, then in reality nobody would ever get involved with an attached man. Does that happen in reality? Yes. Ergo, is this thread realistic? No.

28064212 wrote: »

Of course, whether it is or isn't reflective of reality is completely irrelevant to the discussion

If the advise she receives is unreflective of reality, then that is very bad advice indeed.
Unless you tend to follow advice that is unreflective of reality? Because thats not good.



Have you read the OP?

She provided all the relevant information, and was given many good reasons not to do it.

28064212 wrote: »

Actually, I made a very good case for why it is perfectly appropriate. You don't have to accept it as a good analogy, but the least you could do is attempt to say why you think it's an inappropriate analogy. Or can I just dismiss your entire argument and say it doesn't make any sense without explaining why?

Its a prepostorous analogy because equating the decision as to whether the OP should get involved with an attached man is in no way equal to jumping off a 20 storey building.
Therefore dismissing the absence of counterpoints to not getting involved as being equal to the lack our counterpoints to not jumping off a building is ridiculous. Its a ludicrous stretch.

28064212 wrote: »

Incidentally, what exactly is your argument? That she should get involved? That you have a reason why she should consider getting involved? That someone should be arguing for her to get involved?

My argument is that a consensus emerged on this thread without any sense of actual discussion, and that this thread must be viewed by people who have gotten involved with attached people, and are glad they did it.
That would be the alternative point of view, and the OP has made up her mind on the matter without hearing this.
There's also no little amount of morality on this thread, that in my mind makes it utterly uninviting to those who would wish to discuss their positive experiences in getting involved with attached men for fear of being judged.

all4nothingxx

As a girl who was in a relationship for 4 and half years and found out tat OH had cheated with a girl who knew about our relationship please do not do it.....
This is playing with people lives and feelings... These things always come out eventually and i really dont think u want to be disliked by this guys OH and friends and family.. Alot of these situations the 'other woman' is looked down on and perceived as something i wont mention on here!

PLEASE find someone who is available and not in a relationship or marriage.

ciagr297

all4nothingxx wrote: »

As a girl who was in a relationship for 4 and half years and found out tat OH had cheated with a girl who knew about our relationship please do not do it.....
This is playing with people lives and feelings... These things always come out eventually and i really dont think u want to be disliked by this guys OH and friends and family.. Alot of these situations the 'other woman' is looked down on and perceived as something i wont mention on here!

PLEASE find someone who is available and not in a relationship or marriage.

first off, i don't think most girls go out looking for a guy in a relationship.
unfortunately, if the guy is going to cheat, thats what he is going to do. and its easy to lie, altogether too easy

you are assuming that the girl is just hurting people for fun. rarely is that true.
in all fairness, i seriously doubt that if the guy is not considering the OH's feelings and risking being "disliked" - the girl he is cheating with will not either

i'm sorry to hear you were cheated on, but it sounds like you might be laying more blame on the other girl than your ex-OH

FayeRayRay

Theres plenty of single lads out there so have fun with them. Just think how you would feel if that was your man and think how you would feel. Also karma I have learned is a bitch. Keep it simple and do not get yourself involved in the drama.

x

ciagr297

FayeRayRay wrote: »

Theres plenty of single lads out there so have fun with them. Just think how you would feel if that was your man and think how you would feel. Also karma I have learned is a bitch. Keep it simple and do not get yourself involved in the drama.

x

actually i do know how i would feel. he lied to her and said he wasn't in a relationship.
but he was
with me

but i agree with you on keeping it simple

Wibbs

And it must be remembered that there are a few women(and men) out there who don't want a primary relationship, but want to be the other woman for all sorts of reasons. I've known people to actively seek out attached men and women.

Malari

Wibbs wrote: »

And it must be remembered that there are a few women(and men) out there who don't want a primary relationship, but want to be the other woman for all sorts of reasons. I've known people to actively seek out attached men and women.

Me too. Well, maybe not actively seek them out, but if they are attached, well all the better, as they know it won't be anything serious.

ciagr297

Malari wrote: »

Me too. Well, maybe not actively seek them out, but if they are attached, well all the better, as they know it won't be anything serious.

true, i know this happens but not in every single case of cheating

Malari

ciagr297 wrote: »

true, i know this happens but not in every single case of cheating

Not at all. I just happen to know a person who told me that it was an advantage for them.

I also know a person who is in a relationship and cheats with everyone and anyone. It's awful.

ciagr297

Malari wrote: »

I also know a person who is in a relationship and cheats with everyone and anyone. It's awful.

unfortunately I know someone like this too. no remorse whatsoever, or respect shown. can't help but think his lack of respect to his gf promotes lack of respect from any girl who knows when he hooks up with them