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Vegetarians, Vegans...

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    #152
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    ScumLord wrote: »
    You come from a country that's educated and (up until recently) well funded, the environment you grew up in allowed you to make the choice, in many other countries your lucky to eat, there's no choice about it you eat what's available and be happy you got it. That's what I meant by an educated and well funded choice.

    yes thats right. Although Im not sure what exactly your getting at? Are you saying because theres food shortages in the world I should eat meat?


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    #153
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    sensibleken wrote: »


    grand. veggies dont kill animals in nature either.

    Yes, but animals are killed en masse by agriculture. Lots of species are made extinct because of agriculture, in fact. Why is this better than humane slaughter?

    Or are you going to ignore points you can't argue against, like most vegetarians?


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    #154
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Yes, but animals are killed en masse by agriculture. Lots of species are made extinct because of agriculture, in fact. Why is this better than humane slaughter?

    Or are you going to ignore points you can't argue against, like most vegetarians?

    Not directed at me, but I'll answer anyway

    There's a difference between an accident and driving into somebody on purpose.
    That doesn't mean I'm not concerned about animals getting killed due to farming, or are even pushed to extinction. But I'm not enough of a dreamer to believe that by me not eating animals, I stop causing animals to die. The best I can hope for is a reduction in the number of animals killed, and a reduction in the suffering they undergo before even reaching the slaughterhouse due to industrial farming methods.


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    #155
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Or are you going to ignore points you can't argue against, like most vegetarians?

    lol

    I'm a vegetarian and personally have no issue with humane slaughter. Guess I'm not most vegetarians.


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    #156
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Yes, but animals are killed en masse by agriculture. Lots of species are made extinct because of agriculture, in fact. Why is this better than humane slaughter?

    Or are you going to ignore points you can't argue against, like most vegetarians?

    jaysus. attitude much! make a point and then accuse me of ignoring it in the same breath. too much testosterone in your meat perhaps.

    which ones. link?


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    #157
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Jim wrote: »
    lol

    I'm a vegetarian and personally have no issue with humane slaughter. Guess I'm not most vegetarians.

    nor do I. No problem with humane slaughter or people eating meat. I even cook mates meat when they come around to my house for dinner.

    but i guess being reasonable isnt as much fun for people to argue against


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    #158
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    sensibleken wrote: »
    ever rock climbed sea cliffs for 3 straight hours?

    Lots of times..so what?

    Come to my gym and see how much weight you can bench.

    sensibleken wrote: »

    you now owe me money

    So you can waste it on fcuckin beans?
    No way,hippy.


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    #159
    dagdha
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭dagdha


    I'm a veggie and anytime I'm out eating with friends I have to listen to the same old stupid questions like " would you not love to have a lovely big steak in front of you " or " whats wrong with you, why don't you have some meat, oh look at this lovely big juicy steak i have infront of me".

    This could go on for well over ten minutes and I'd normally shut them up by asking them why they don't try something else or why they would'nt eat the eyes, brains or other parts of the cow or would they try eating cat, dog, horse, rat or live squid and why are they happy to eat one part of a specific animal or not the other parts of it or any other animal for that matter. I usually get the reply "thats disgusting, why would I want to eat that" and "thats sick". I then ask them if they had ever tried eating any of the other stuff and the answer is always no and that they would'nt touch it with a barge pole.

    I then say to them that in other cultures that food is eaten regularly and that its considered a delicasy in alot of cultures and that these cultures might think that the food that people in the western world eat is unusual. I'd ask them would they not try it and why and their answer is usually "I don't want to". Its the same reason I don't eat meat, beacuse I don't want to.
    Different strokes for different folks and each to their own and all that jazz. Why can't people just get over it.

    I stopped eating meat 14 years ago when I was 12 (and I still get asked the same questions by the same people all these years). I never took any supplements and I'm 6ft 2" and 15 stone so it's not like not eating meat had an adverse affect on my growth.

    I can easily survive without taking the life of an animal just so I have something to eat.


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    #160
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Degsy wrote: »
    Lots of times..so what?

    .

    cool. so were in agreement. being veggie or meat eater has no impact on physical strength

    see. we can get past our divisions guys

    trying out positive only posting for a week as agreed on another thread just now


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    #161
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    dagdha wrote: »
    I'm a veggie and anytime I'm out eating with friends I have to listen to the same old stupid questions like " would you not love to have a lovely big steak in front of you " or " whats wrong with you, why don't you have some meat, oh look at this lovely big juicy steak i have infront of me".

    This is pretty much my only problem with being vegetarian. People asking me retarded questions. Please just **** off and let me eat my Tarka Daal. I don't care what you eat.


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    #162
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    sensibleken wrote: »
    jaysus. attitude much! make a point and then accuse me of ignoring it in the same breath. too much testosterone in your meat perhaps.

    which ones. link?

    Basically my point is that just because you are not eating a dead animal doesn't mean that no animals were killed in the process. Animals get hacked up by combine harvesters, run over by tractors, die out because their habitat is turned into wheat fields/vegatable patches etc...

    No vegetarian I have ever asked has come up with a convincing reason why they think the humane slaughter of an animal (for arguments sake, I know a lot of animals are not humanely kept) is not OK, but the killing of an animal that you aren't even going to eat is OK.


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    #163
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    sensibleken wrote: »
    cool. so were in agreement. being veggie or meat eater has no impact on physical strength

    Yes it does..veggies are smaller.weedier and more sickly than normal,meat eating people.
    They also have greasier hair and are more likely to be unemployed and live in bedsits.

    Link


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    #164
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Degsy wrote: »
    Yes it does..veggies are smaller.weedier and more sickly than normal,meat eating people.
    They also have greasier hair and are more likely to be unemployed and live in bedsits.

    Link

    Wow... I only know exceptions to that rule. Funny old world, isn't it?


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    #165
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Basically my point is that just because you are not eating a dead animal doesn't mean that no animals were killed in the process. Animals get hacked up by combine harvesters, run over by tractors, die out because their habitat is turned into wheat fields/vegatable patches etc...

    .

    Never mind that..Soya is the most destructive crop on the planet..you cant tell veggies that though.


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    #166
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    Degsy wrote: »
    Never mind that..Soya is the most destructive crop on the planet..you cant tell veggies that though.
    Why not?


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    #167
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Wow... I only know exceptions to that rule. Funny old world, isn't it?

    What..muscle-bound,well-developed vegetarians with clean,short hair who dont live in bedsits?

    Pull the other one..


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    #168
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Basically my point is that just because you are not eating a dead animal doesn't mean that no animals were killed in the process. Animals get hacked up by combine harvesters, run over by tractors, die out because their habitat is turned into wheat fields/vegatable patches etc...

    No vegetarian I have ever asked has come up with a convincing reason why they think the humane slaughter of an animal (for arguments sake, I know a lot of animals are not humanely kept) is not OK, but the killing of an animal that you aren't even going to eat is OK.

    A corollary to the above, insects are animals, yet I doubt that many vegetarians would have a problem dosing their dog for fleas. Presumably the sentience of an animal comes into the equation. So what level of sentient animal is it OK to kill. A fly? A spider? A slug? A bee?

    To quote Al Murray "What is the biggest animal you would punch?"


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    #169
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    A corollary to the above, insects are animals, yet I doubt that many vegetarians would have a problem dosing their dog for fleas. Presumably the sentience of an animal comes into the equation. So what level of sentient animal is it OK to kill. A fly? A spider? A slug? A bee?

    To quote Al Murray "What is the biggest animal you would punch?"
    I try to avoid killing any animals (including insects) I can, but there is a point where you have to live your life. As I said in a previous post, I am a veggie up until it is practical for me to live my life as one. If my house was infested with disease carrying rats I'd probably kill them (if no other practical method was available)


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    #170
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Jim wrote: »
    Why not?

    Because in taking the moral high groun about not eating animals they're loathe to admit that thier own choice of diet is far more damaging to the planet as a whole.

    Add the corresponding extrotionate price of vegetarian meals in the 21st century and you have a generation of gullible idealists being exploited by multinationals,many of which are involved in practises of grave danger to the planets' eco-systems.


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    #171
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Degsy wrote: »
    What..muscle-bound,well-developed vegetarians with clean,short hair who dont live in bedsits?

    Pull the other one..

    http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?t=16192


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    #172
    nervous_twitch
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭nervous_twitch


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Basically my point is that just because you are not eating a dead animal doesn't mean that no animals were killed in the process. Animals get hacked up by combine harvesters, run over by tractors, die out because their habitat is turned into wheat fields/vegatable patches etc...

    No vegetarian I have ever asked has come up with a convincing reason why they think the humane slaughter of an animal (for arguments sake, I know a lot of animals are not humanely kept) is not OK, but the killing of an animal that you aren't even going to eat is OK.

    In a similar vein, why dont us vegetarians get lovely little hovercrafts that glide above the paths to prevent us stepping on any ants/microbes?

    Get real; you cant quantify ethics like that. If I could ensure that the mechanics of the agricultural industry wouldn't kill any living thing, of course I would.. but its just not plausible. I contribute in the way that I can; I abstain from eating meat because I'm just not comfortable with it.. that doesnt mean I'm going to suddenly start leading this pious, 100% animal-friendly existence. I do what I can.


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    #173
    marxcoo
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭marxcoo


    I did contemplate becoming a vegetarian after watching 'Meet Your Meat' on youtube last week but the feeling soon passed. Thinking back on it now though, it was quite horrific. Maybe I won't have chicken for my dinner....


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    #174
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?t=16192

    Pathetic,scrawney specimens..even WITH steroids they look weak.:rolleyes::confused:


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    #175
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    nervous_twitch wrote: »
    In a similar vein, why dont us vegetarians get lovely little hovercrafts that glide above the paths to prevent us stepping on any ants/microbes?

    Get real; you cant quantify ethics like that. If I could ensure that the mechanics of the agricultural industry wouldn't kill any living thing, of course I would.. but its just not plausible. I contribute in the way that I can; I abstain from eating meat because I'm just not comfortable with it.. that doesnt mean I'm going to suddenly start leading this pious, 100% animal-friendly existence. I do what I can.

    Again, very indignant, but doesn't answer the question of why one death is better than another.

    Interesting that you use the word pious, relating to religion, as I consider vegetarianism and veganism to be similar to religions.


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    #176
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?t=16192

    Pathetic,scrawney specimens..even with steroids they look weak


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    #177
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    Degsy wrote: »
    Because in taking the moral high groun about not eating animals they're loathe to admit that thier own choice of diet is far more damaging to the planet as a whole.

    Add the corresponding extrotionate price of vegetarian meals in the 21st century and you have a generation of gullible idealists being exploited by multinationals,many of which are involved in practises of grave danger to the planets' eco-systems.
    What if those veggies don't eat soya or tofu? It also can be argued that mass cow breeding is the biggest cause of co2 emissions (etc etc, endless argument).

    Everyone is exploited by big multinationals, and if they are it is they're own fault. Personally I get all my veg from markets and make my own meals and, tbh, any veggie meals I see in cafes or restaurants are cheaper than meat based ones? So not sure where you're getting that from.

    Good tip actually for veggies is to go into a carvery lunch type pub. Get a carvery lunch minus the meat (so basically a massive plate of veg with stuffing and optional sauce) and it'll cost you about €5, whereas the same meal with a couple of slices of meat will cost at least €10+. I don't know how pubs haven't copped on to this yet.


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    #178
    itsallaboutheL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,333 ✭✭✭✭itsallaboutheL


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?t=16192

    Can they only eat their Dbol if it falls out of a tree or soemthing?


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    #179
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Jim wrote: »
    Good tip actually for veggies is to go into a carvery lunch type pub. Get a carvery lunch minus the meat (so basically a massive plate of veg with stuffing and optional sauce) and it'll cost you about €5, whereas the same meal with a couple of slices of meat will cost at least €10+. I don't know how pubs haven't copped on to this yet.

    You see its the meat people are interested in..thats why it called a "carvery"..not a "mashery" or a "boilery".

    You can have your fiver's worth of potatoes and veg.


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    #180
    Jim
    Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    Degsy wrote: »
    You see its the meat people are interested in..thats why it called a "carvery"..not a "mashery" or a "boilery".

    You can have your fiver's worth of potatoes and veg.
    I will. It's delicious.


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    #181
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Degsy wrote: »
    Pathetic,scrawney specimens..even with steroids they look weak

    Degsy, you sound like you need a hug

    *hug*


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