NFL Week 4 thread

Prefab Sprouter

spiralism wrote: »

mother of god, how s***e are the cardinals

Which makes the Raiders loss to them that much harder to bear. They are awful, and so is the Raiders Run defense :mad:

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Well here is my top 10 Inside Linebackers, if you want me to add the outside guys I will but Dansby is nowhere near that list. Hell he hasn't ever gotten an award like all-pro or even the probowl but you call him elite.

Ray Lewis
Patrick Willis
Jon Beason
Brian Urlacher
James Farrior
DeMeco Ryans
Lofa Tatupu
Bart Scott
Jerod Mayo
Jonathon Vilma

You also mentioned they lost their safety but they got Kerry Rhodes instead of him, thats pretty much a push.

The only other significant loss was Boldin but they have Steve Breaston who was promoted to no.2 and that guy has a very good future. Boldin has been injury prone the last couple of seasons so its not a huge loss to that team. Actually without a QB its not a loss at all if you can understand that.

So are you saying there is only 10 elite Linebackers? Since when is there a set amount of "elite" guys?

As for the Cardinals to say losing Warner was the only reason they have gone downhill is ridiculous. Boldin is huge loss and twice the WR Breaston is. Losing Rolle and Dansby and Boldin and Warner as a combination didn't help the Cardinals considering they really didn't replace them efficiently.

I will say it doesn't matter if you are 26 years or 26 days following the sport it doesn't always make you right. And it doesn't automatically make YOUR opinion the right one either. Hell I coach the game and even I get it wrong sometimes. Been many blonde moments by me in these here forums.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

So are you saying there is only 10 elite Linebackers? Since when is there a set amount of "elite" guys?

As for the Cardinals to say losing Warner was the only reason they have gone downhill is ridiculous. Boldin is huge loss and twice the WR Breaston is. Losing Rolle and Dansby and Boldin and Warner as a combination didn't help the Cardinals considering they really didn't replace them efficiently.

I will say it doesn't matter if you are 26 years or 26 days following the sport it doesn't always make you right. And it doesn't automatically make YOUR opinion the right one either. Hell I coach the game and even I get it wrong sometimes. Been many blonde moments by me in these here forums.

Actually I don't think there is what I'd called 10 elite inside linebackers. For me the word elite means a player who is so rare that replacing him is close to impossible.

As for the rest of it, do you honestly think we would have won 3 Superbowls with Drew Bledsoe at QB? And Drew was a good one but not a great/elite QB. Tom Brady is a great, and he made such a huge difference to the Patriots.

There is a huge drop from another great Kurt Warner to who is there now. There is very little difference between Anquain Boldin and a very average receiver when you don't have somebody to throw the ball to him.

I think a great example of this is ex Patriot receivers who have looked distinctly average since they left the Patriots. Look at Deoin Branch who everybody rated as one of best when he was a Patriot, David Patten is a perfect example who went to the Redskins and was brutal, then hooked up with the Saints and Brees and had a very good season with them. What about Reche Caldwell, look at his career production and his production the one year he was with Tom Brady.

The Cardinals offense is averaging 14.5 points per game right now and that includes 24 points against the Raiders. Their average time of possession this year is under 25 mins per game which is horrific and even that figure is padded by almost 33 mins possession against the Raiders, the last 3 seasons they averaged about 30 mins. The reason these stats are so bad is because Kurt Warner is no longer there and his replacements are not good enough. Losing an average NFL QB will hurt a team, but losing a great one like Warner is huge.

See how Boldin does this season with Joe Flacco who has his good days and bad days. I reckon he won't get near the production he had with the Cards. I like Boldin and I think he is a fine player but really he got it handy there with a top QB and never having to worry about double coverage due to the presence of Larry Fitz. I think Breaston is very special but the Cards will have to wait until next year at the earliest to see how good he is now that he is the no.2 in Arizona.

Obviously any player you lost will affect the team but you could lose the other three and still have Warner and the Cards could still go places. You could hold onto the other three and lose Warner and the Cards are going nowhere.

Chucky the tree

Warner is easily the biggest lose to the team. If they had Warner they'd walk their division. If they still had Dansby, Rolle and boldin they'd be in better shape but I still wouldn't bank on them winning the division.

Itssoeasy

Bad lose to the skins last night for the eagles. Thankfully vick doesn't seem to have broken any ribs or anything like that.(its an upper rib cartilage injury) And I watched the incident at the end of the first half several times(thank you sky+) and why did the refs move the ball back ? And it was a 30 second TO, and you can't call two timeouts in a row, and yes reid had the entirnity of the review to get something set up.

Did the playclock not get reset. Anyway crappy lose and the D would want to wake up, and if bobby april is still ST coach by the end of the season when then I'm a camal. And Jason"I like to hold" peters drove me mental watching. The NFL should replace the holding paragraph in the rule book with a picture of Jason Peters.

Bitter much Donovan ?

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Actually I don't think there is what I'd called 10 elite inside linebackers. For me the word elite means a player who is so rare that replacing him is close to impossible.

Maybe not but that is your opinion. The simple fact your top 10 is also your opinion and I have to say Dansby for me is easily among that list you listed. Ask yourself why the Dolphins were prepared to give him the highesdt wage for a linebacker back in March.

Just because he hasnt make the popularity contest er I mean Pro bowl doesn't make him any less of a player. He was the most experienced ILB the Cards had and to be honest letting him go and replacing him with Lenon and a 2 year guy and a rookie says a lot about your defense. The cards production rate on defense this year has been terrible compared to previous years. So I would say he is a big loss.

As for the rest of it, do you honestly think we would have won 3 Superbowls with Drew Bledsoe at QB? And Drew was a good one but not a great/elite QB. Tom Brady is a great, and he made such a huge difference to the Patriots.

Firstly isnt hindsight such a wonderful thing. None of us can say yes or or no to this.

There is a huge drop from another great Kurt Warner to who is there now. There is very little difference between Anquain Boldin and a very average receiver when you don't have somebody to throw the ball to him.

For a man who knows football this is a ridiculous response. We are talking about a receiver you could throw a ball short to and he will break for 30 more. Doesn't matter how sh1t your QB is sometimes as WR can make you look better at times. And that goes both ways.

I think a great example of this is ex Patriot receivers who have looked distinctly average since they left the Patriots. Look at Deoin Branch who everybody rated as one of best when he was a Patriot, David Patten is a perfect example who went to the Redskins and was brutal, then hooked up with the Saints and Brees and had a very good season with them. What about Reche Caldwell, look at his career production and his production the one year he was with Tom Brady.

Are you seriously comparing Boldin to our old WRs? Firstly Boldins abiltiy was not all down to Warner. In Boldins first season he had 1300 yards and 8 tds with Blake and McCowan as the QBs. Had it not been for his injury the next year God knows what he could have done. Personally I feel Boldin is a better WR than both Patten and Branch but comparing him to those two is fruitless at best.

The Cardinals offense is averaging 14.5 points per game right now and that includes 24 points against the Raiders. Their average time of possession this year is under 25 mins per game which is horrific and even that figure is padded by almost 33 mins possession against the Raiders, the last 3 seasons they averaged about 30 mins. The reason these stats are so bad is because Kurt Warner is no longer there and his replacements are not good enough. Losing an average NFL QB will hurt a team, but losing a great one like Warner is huge.

Huge but not the only reason they are terrible both sides of the Cradinals game sucks donkey c0ck right now.

See how Boldin does this season with Joe Flacco who has his good days and bad days. I reckon he won't get near the production he had with the Cards. I like Boldin and I think he is a fine player but really he got it handy there with a top QB and never having to worry about double coverage due to the presence of Larry Fitz. I think Breaston is very special but the Cards will have to wait until next year at the earliest to see how good he is now that he is the no.2 in Arizona.

So far he is averaging 88 yards a game with 3 TDs on that poor Ravens Offense. Thats nearly 50% of the Ravens Receiving yards. Not half bad for a WR on a poor offense.

Obviously any player you lost will affect the team but you could lose the other three and still have Warner and the Cards could still go places. You could hold onto the other three and lose Warner and the Cards are going nowhere.

Good to see you still think that a team only needs a solid QB to win games especially Superbowls. The simple fact the Cardinals have the 4th worst Defense in the NFL right now shows it wasn't just a 1 man band. But hey if Warner had played D also I would say yup it was all down to him.

Syferus

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Bad lose to the skins last night for the eagles. Thankfully vick doesn't seem to have broken any ribs or anything like that.(its an upper rib cartilage injury) And I watched the incident at the end of the first half several times(thank you sky+) and why did the refs move the ball back ? And it was a 30 second TO, and you can't call two timeouts in a row, and yes reid had the entirnity of the review to get something set up.

Did the playclock not get reset. Anyway crappy lose and the D would want to wake up, and if bobby april is still ST coach by the end of the season when then I'm a camal. And Jason"I like to hold" peters drove me mental watching. The NFL should replace the holding paragraph in the rule book with a picture of Jason Peters.

Bitter much Donovan ?

In all fairness he wasn't scathing or terribly bitter and McNabb generally comes off as one of the best personalities (and not in the T.O. sense!) in the league. Given the mess at QB in Philly it is still a very open question as to whether trading McNabb was the right choice, but for the original aim - to make Kolb the franchise-level starter - it has been a failure.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Maybe not but that is your opinion. The simple fact your top 10 is also your opinion and I have to say Dansby for me is easily among that list you listed. Ask yourself why the Dolphins were prepared to give him the highesdt wage for a linebacker back in March.

Because they needed a good inside linebacker very badly. I never said the guy was terrible or anything. He is good, very good but he is nowhere near as good as the ten I posted earlier.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Just because he hasnt make the popularity contest er I mean Pro bowl doesn't make him any less of a player. He was the most experienced ILB the Cards had and to be honest letting him go and replacing him with Lenon and a 2 year guy and a rookie says a lot about your defense. The cards production rate on defense this year has been terrible compared to previous years. So I would say he is a big loss.

I did say all-pro too which is not a popularity contest. I agree they didn't do a good job replacing him though.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Firstly isnt hindsight such a wonderful thing. None of us can say yes or or no to this.

Well its quite easy for me to say yes. Drew made too many bad decisions and was just a half second too slow getting rid of the ball too often. That makes a huge difference as you know. Its the difference between being a very good QB and a great imo.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

For a man who knows football this is a ridiculous response. We are talking about a receiver you could throw a ball short to and he will break for 30 more. Doesn't matter how sh1t your QB is sometimes as WR can make you look better at times. And that goes both ways.

Steve Breaston is averaging 13.1 yards per catch this year.
Anquain Boldin is averaging 13.1 yards per catch this year.

Last year Boldin averaged 12.2 ypc over the season, Breaston averaged 12.9.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Boldin to our old WRs? Firstly Boldins abiltiy was not all down to Warner. In Boldins first season he had 1300 yards and 8 tds with Blake and McCowan as the QBs. Had it not been for his injury the next year God knows what he could have done. Personally I feel Boldin is a better WR than both Patten and Branch but comparing him to those two is fruitless at best.

I'm just showing you how a great QB can make somebody look better than they actually are. As I said I do think Boldin is a fine player but I'm not so sure he is as good as a lot of people think. I mentioned the fact that he was rarely double covered due to Larry Fitz in Arizona.
Deoin Branch was considered one of the best in the NFL when he was a Patriot but its all changed since he left as it has for pretty much every other wideout that left the Patriots since Brady arrived.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Huge but not the only reason they are terrible both sides of the Cradinals game sucks donkey c0ck right now.

Its the main reason because they are struggling to get first downs.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

So far he is averaging 88 yards a game with 3 TDs on that poor Ravens Offense. Thats nearly 50% of the Ravens Receiving yards. Not half bad for a WR on a poor offense.

Who said its a 'poor' offense. Its a decent offense just that Flacco has off days and if he continues that way then Boldin will not have the production that he had with Warner and the Cards.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Good to see you still think that a team only needs a solid QB to win games especially Superbowls. The simple fact the Cardinals have the 4th worst Defense in the NFL right now shows it wasn't just a 1 man band. But hey if Warner had played D also I would say yup it was all down to him.

The Cards D was terrible last year, they gave up 346 yards per game, this year its at 388 but that will come down over the coming weeks unless they give up monster yardage like they did against the Chargers a couple of more times.
And you know as well as I do that when your offense struggles to get first downs that your D is going to be on the field too long, start to tire and make mistakes. Look at the game last night which showed just that. The Bears D was doing a superb job but in the end they gave up 190 yards on the ground and something similar through the air.
If Kurt Warner was still there they would be getting more first downs, holding onto the ball longer and as a result keeping the D fresher.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Because they needed a good inside linebacker very badly. I never said the guy was terrible or anything. He is good, very good but he is nowhere near as good as the ten I posted earlier.

See this is where most will disagree with you. Whether you truly believe your opinion is actually fact that is fair enough who am I to say you are wrong. I feel he fits among that 10 you listed but hey The difference is I wont say that I have been following the sport so long and I know better or that I coach and I know better. See what I did there? At the end of it all you feel Dansby wasn't a big loss and that Warner was the main key and I will agree to disagree because who am I to match your 26 years of following. I bow down to your knowledge

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

See this is where most will disagree with you. Whether you truly believe your opinion is actually fact that is fair enough who am I to say you are wrong. I feel he fits among that 10 you listed but hey The difference is I wont say that I have been following the sport so long and I know better or that I coach and I know better. See what I did there? At the end of it all you feel Dansby wasn't a big loss and that Warner was the main key and I will agree to disagree because who am I to match your 26 years of following. I bow down to your knowledge

Listen man, I know you know your stuff and we often disagree on things. That 26 years comment was made in reply to a guy saying I was shortsighted and foolish which is a bit much.

I don't rate Dansby in the top 10. I'd put him in the next 10 somewhere. But as we often do, we'll agree to disagree.

Black Swan

Hey lads, I appreciate your passion about the game, but some of the above posts are starting to get a bit personal, rather than just calling the game as you see it. Let's get back to football.

Hazys

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Hey lads, I appreciate your passion about the game, but some of the above posts are starting to get a bit personal, rather than just calling the game as you see it. Let's get back to football.

Damn i like that pic...i may just start some trouble in here just so Blue posts more pics like the one above.

Chucky the tree

I have to say, fair play to Frisbee for agreeing to pose for that picture. I was a bit skeptical of having a women as mod but Laura's done a great job so far.

Frisbee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I have to say, fair play to Frisbee for agreeing to pose for that picture. I was a bit skeptical of having a women as mod but Laura's done a great job so far.

Absolutely Merked.

Well played.

fisgon

Archimedes wrote: »

Only a matter of time before Cutler got knocked out of a game. Im not even surprised that the Bears lost 2 QBs tonight. Awful O line.

Just a query arising from the Bears-Giants game. What happens if a team's 3 QBs get knocked out of a game? It occurred to me while watcing the Bears' QBs getting beaten up, one after the other. It nearly happened. Do they just stick some RB in there under centre, or play everything from the wildcat? And has it ever happened in the NFL? I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows what the story would be....

tallaghtoutlaws

fisgon wrote: »

Just a query arising from the Bears-Giants game. What happens if a team's 3 QBs get knocked out of a game? It occurred to me while watcing the Bears' QBs getting beaten up, one after the other. It nearly happened. Do they just stick some RB in there under centre, or play everything from the wildcat? And has it ever happened in the NFL? I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows what the story would be....

Plenty of guys who could fill in. Look at guys like Julian Edelmen, Antwaan Randle El, Brad Smith QBs in High School or College but are WR now. Plenty of them knocking around. You will find most rosters carry guys with some throwing experience. They might not be solid QBs but they can fill in taking snaps and hand the ball of if needs be and make the odd pass.

El Horseboxo

What's up with Brady not throwing the ball. 30 yards only so far and he hasn't gone to Welker or Moss.

eagle eye

Man what a pity the fake spike didn't come off, one of those things that Brady can do to you. It was such a good fake but the throw was just too far.

This is a tough game, Ninkovich with 2 ints, move him to safety imo.:)

Hazys

Boom!


Go Brandon Tate!

Hazys

Boom!


Go Patrick Chung!

Syferus

eagle eye wrote: »

Man what a pity the fake spike didn't come off, one of those things that Brady can do to you. It was such a good fake but the throw was just too far.

This is a tough game, Ninkovich with 2 ints, move him to safety imo.:)

I need a shot of brandy.

eagle eye

How could you not like Danny Woodhead:) He has been brilliant since he came in, and what makes it even sweeter is I can just imagine Rex Ryan's face everytime he does something for New England.:D

eagle eye

Ghost showing his worth too with all those kickoffs, he has had a perfect night so far.

Hazys

Thank god for special teams, otherwise i have a feeling we would be struggling otherwise

Syferus

Hazys wrote: »

Thank god for special teams, otherwise i have a feeling we would be struggling otherwise

No, I have a feeling Tom Brady would just break out the really special tricks and start floating ten feet in the air and rush into the end-zone.

tallaghtoutlaws

Hazys wrote: »

Thank god for special teams, otherwise i have a feeling we would be struggling otherwise

Definitely this. Still a lot of work to do. Good to see one part of our trio (ST) step up and get a job done. It is games like this that shows the importance of Special teams.

eagle eye

What a night for Chung. Thats a probowl night, people don't forget a game like that.

tallaghtoutlaws

Syferus wrote: »

No, I have a feeling Tom Brady would just break out the really special tricks and start floating ten feet in the air and rush into the end-zone.

Might want to lay of those brandys from earlier

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

What a night for Chung. Thats a probowl night, people don't forget a game like that.

Could you imagine if 2 of the 3 CB were playing to the same capacity right now as Chung. We wouldn't be talking about that defense at all.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Could you imagine if 2 of the 3 CB were playing to the same capacity right now as Chung. We wouldn't be talking about that defense at all.

Yeah, although I do like McCourty. Leigh Bodden was such a loss this year though. I still think I'm dreaming though, like Ninko with two Ints, a sack and a couple of QB pressures and tackles too. Like Ninko doing anyone of those things would be a shock!