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The government rumoured to be nationalising AIB

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    #122
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    The consequence of this is that the bond markets are going to send our sovereign interest rate crusing past 7% tomorrow and then it's game over for us, we are in Greek territory then, financial markets shut, IMF how do you do...

    Of course we could beg a few quid from the euro central reserves, apparently it's there as a safety net for a crisis like this, but that would mean Lenihan having to admit he chose the wrong path, and FF don't do apologies like that.


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    #123
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    thebaldsoprano wrote: »
    From Denis Naughten's (FG) twitter account:



    Yet AIB is up 17% on the NYSE. Sounds like there's something fishy going on.

    His previous post said this

    Just leaving 101st birthday party of FG member Matt Leonard. All he wants is an erection!
    :eek::eek::eek:


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    #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stekelly wrote: »
    You are missing something indeed. AIB needs €3b. The government can either A) give them €3b B) Give them €600m for the shares then give them €2.4b or C) give them €3b for the shares.

    A would be stupid, so that leaves B and C, They chose C but as you can see, theres no difference between B and C, bar the easily led public getting whipped in to a frenzy by the media at different times.

    Getting the shares is the easy bit... now we just need to talk them up to about €15 each (or whatever they were before the crash) and sell the lot to get our money back. And pigs might! :rolleyes:


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    #125
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    sligopark wrote: »
    one buch of w*nkers replaced by another bunch of w*nkers who agreed with every decision make by the first bunch of w*nkers?

    Dream on

    Become a politican.... Change the world... Yada yada yada....


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    #126
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Getting the shares is the easy bit... now we just need to talk them up to about €15 each (or whatever they were before the crash) and sell the lot to get our money back. And pigs might! :rolleyes:

    What they end up at is irrelevant. Even if the government sold the lot for €1 it's still €1 more than they would have if they just gave them the €3b that has to go in anyway.


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    #127
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Yup, Gordan Gecko is out of prison.
    Looking forwards to seeing that second part. :D


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    #128
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Biggins wrote: »
    Looking forwards to seeing that second part. :D
    Dude got old


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    #129
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    http://twitter.com/davidmcw McWilliams hasn't actually twittered since the 28th.
    Dean820 wrote: »
    I'm a little stupid, can someone tell me how this will effect me?
    On a day to day basis, not a lot.
    How will this effect Irish people?
    We are essentially taking on more of the debts and assets of AIB. Depending on how things work out in the medium to long term we might make or lose money. However, seeing as we guaranteed AIB anyway, there may be no real change compared to yesterday.


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    #130
    heyjude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    Stekelly wrote: »
    You are missing something indeed. AIB needs €3b. The government can either A) give them €3b B) Give them €600m for the shares then give them €2.4b or C) give them €3b for the shares.

    A would be stupid, so that leaves B and C, They chose C but as you can see, theres no difference between B and C, bar the easily led public getting whipped in to a frenzy by the media at different times.

    I get it AIB needs €3bn and they are worth €600m, what I don't get is how having given them 5 times what the company is currently worth, 'we/the state' will still only assume 70 percent share ownership of the company, surely with the amount we're pumping in, we should be over 90 percent, unless the AIB shareholders want to match our input.

    If AIB ever recovers, the private shareholders will benefit massively from this state investment. Is this why it was reported that the AIB share price went up tonight in NY ?


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    #131
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    heyjude wrote: »
    I get it AIB needs €3bn and they are worth €600m, what I don't get is how having given them 5 times what the company is currently worth, 'we/the state' will still only assume 70 percent share ownership of the company, surely with the amount we're pumping in, we should be over 90 percent, unless the AIB shareholders want to match our input.

    If AIB ever recovers, the private shareholders will benefit massively from this state investment. Is this why it was reported that the AIB share price went up tonight in NY ?

    There isnt 90% available, we already own a percentage.


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    #132
    SoulTrader
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭SoulTrader


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    Or (D), buy the share capital for 600 million Euro and loan them the 2.4 billion Euro with internet thereon, and securitize the 2.4 Billion with AIB property???

    Yes, loan them the internet!:)


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    #133
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    heyjude wrote: »
    Is this why it was reported that the AIB share price went up tonight in NY ?

    From what little I know of the stock market, shares of a company usually go up when there are rumours of them being bought out.


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    #134
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    heyjude wrote: »
    I get it AIB needs €3bn and they are worth €600m, what I don't get is how having given them 5 times what the company is currently worth, 'we/the state' will still only assume 70 percent share ownership of the company, surely with the amount we're pumping in, we should be over 90 percent, unless the AIB shareholders want to match our input.

    If AIB ever recovers, the private shareholders will benefit massively from this state investment. Is this why it was reported that the AIB share price went up tonight in NY ?


    Read my post.... It explains all...


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    #135
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Dude got old
    True but still has it! :cool:


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    #136
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    heyjude wrote: »
    I get it AIB needs €3bn and they are worth €600m, what I don't get is how having given them 5 times what the company is currently worth, 'we/the state' will still only assume 70 percent share ownership of the company, surely with the amount we're pumping in, we should be over 90 percent, unless the AIB shareholders want to match our input.
    The €600m is the market capitalization i.e. what the shares are worth, but AIB has other assets too, such as property. In accounting terms, a mortgage on their books is an asset on the balance sheet, but when the borrowers can't pay back, and the value of the mortgage is in doubt, that's what's popularly known as a "toxic asset". :eek:

    Now, if the government is actually going to buy the shares, there are a couple more points to make:
    - this is not "nationalisation" in the conventional sense. In a real Nationalisation scenario, the government just takes the assets, and shares become worthless.
    - The spike in the share price is to be expected, because that means shareholders see a chance to make a profit. People were buying AIB, on the NYSE, at 17% up for the rest of the day. Those buyers expect to make a profit themselves. I expect the ISE to follow suit in the morning. In other words: if the govt. wants to buy those shares on the market, the bill's about to get a lot bigger.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #137
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Whatever about toxic assets, I have a toxic ass.


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    #138
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    bnt wrote: »
    The €600m is the market capitalization i.e. what the shares are worth, but AIB has other assets too, such as property. In accounting terms, a mortgage on their books is an asset on the balance sheet, but when the borrowers can't pay back, and the value of the mortgage is in doubt, that's what's popularly known as a "toxic asset". :eek:

    Aka... Recap job needed.... I think this thought process is a bit beyond AH....


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    #139
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Whatever about toxic assets, I have a toxic ass.

    Until the morning..... And I'll be farting like Larry Murphy.....


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    #140
    knird evol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭knird evol


    These shares will skyrocket in value anyway in the short to medium term. Brian Lenihan said that we have turned the corner going forward and everythings under control.


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    #141
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    knird evol wrote: »
    These shares will skyrocket in value anyway in the short to medium term. Brian Lenihan said that we have turned the corner going forward and everythings under control.

    And pigs will fly over Leinster House.....


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    #142
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    knird evol wrote: »
    ...Brian Lenihan said that we have turned the corner going forward and everythings under control.
    I heard the last time he said that, was as he was standing on the deck of the Titanic in Belfast!


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    #143
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Biggins wrote: »
    I heard the last time he said that, was as he was standing on the deck of the Titanic in Belfast!

    Did you draw him naked?


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    #144
    heyjude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    Stekelly wrote: »
    There isnt 90% available, we already own a percentage.

    I said "we should be over 90 percent" I didn't say we should get an extra 90%, I realise that we had some stake after previous 'investments/cash injections' in AIB. But I think that allowing for what we have already pumped into AIB plus this additional €3bn, we should have substantially more than 70 percent and would welcome the news, if this was so.


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    #145
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Did you draw him naked?
    Draw him naked! :eek:

    Its hard enough to draw a cheque with him! :o


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    #146
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Biggins wrote: »
    Draw him naked! :eek:

    Its hard enough to draw a cheque with him! :o

    Not if it's a mixer it ain't ....


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    #147
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    stepbar wrote: »
    Not if it's a mixer it ain't ....
    What! A gin and tonic? ;)


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    #148
    thebaldsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭thebaldsoprano


    stepbar wrote: »
    And pigs will fly over Leinster House.....

    Wouldn't be the first time.

    From this article shortly before the last election:
    The Greens are not ruling out coalition with anyone after the general election, party leader Trevor Sargent told a news conference in Dublin yesterday.


    However, he suggested an arrangement with Fianna Fáil was highly unlikely. "If pigs could fly," he said, "I'm sure that would also make news." He expressed deep scepticism that Fianna Fáil would, for example, accept Green Party proposals for ethical reform in politics.


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    #149
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Biggins wrote: »
    What! A gin and tonic? ;)

    Na a cement mixer but I heard cowan likes the baby Guinness... That's a mixer in any man's language !


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    #150
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,096 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    FG TD Denis Naughton posted this on his twitter page:
    AIB on brink of nationalisation,Ireland now on brink.Need all party budget!

    http://twitter.com/DenisNaughten

    The biggest bank in Ireland being nationalised two years after the mess started - confidence in the country will be shattered.


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    #151
    longshanks
    Registered Users Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭longshanks


    so hang on a minute, wait, just wait till i get this straight in my head..... he made the whole thing up from what he could see on the wall behind the agent, kobayashe, the barbershop quartet in skokie illinois, mr redfoot in california....
    and then he just walks out... and isn't limping


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