Dog bit.

Storminateacup

Astra,

I understand what you're saying, this post here, is summing up exactly what I'm thinking.
It wasn't just a bad bite - it was a savage unprovoked out of character attack. He attacked her like I imagine he would attack another dog in defence.

If I'm being honest, I am terrified that he WILL attack again, and I'm also worried that theres something wrong with him, either physically or physcologically.

I am not just blaming the parents - they could not have known what the dog was capable of, nor could have I. I accept the dog is in my care, and thus, I am responsible for him.

However, the parents AREN'T completely blameless either. Having spoken to my solicitor, they WERE negeligent. They were sitting in their car, while their children ran amok, unsupervised. My dad was there, but those children aren't his responsibility, at the end of the day.

So, yes, I'm angry that they came onto our property (uninvited, but not trespassing), allowed their children to get out of the car to run around, while they sat in the car. Accidents happen. Serious accidents happen, unfortunately and sadly. This particular accident could have been prevented had better care been taken on BOTH sides. The parents, IMHO, are not blameless.

astra2000

Hi op I just had a reread of your first post. You mention that your dog is a rescue dog and has always been nervous of children it is probably likely that he had bad experiences from before you got him. We had a dog got him from a neighbour who was not a dog friendly person to put it mildly. Anyway we had him around 6 months and one day I went outside to sweep the patio dog took one look at the brus in my hand and fled howling. We had never hit the dog with anything so we know we hadnt put this fear in him. We had the dog four years and each time he saw one of us with a brush or anything resembling one he gave the same reaction. He was only about 10 weeks when we got him but whatever happened stayed with him.
People have mentioned to you about behaviour therapy but it does appear to be children he is nervous with and I cant imagine that you would ever be able to expose him to kids again so the chances of him been taught to behave around them would be slim.
And yes your right the parents should have been supervising but from what you have said the dog attacked as soon as your dad turned his head so even if they had been standing beside their daughter he may have still attacked. I really do feel sorry for you on this one there is no easy solution unfortunatly.

granturismo

Storminateacup wrote: »

However, the parents AREN'T completely blameless either. Having spoken to my solicitor, they WERE negeligent. .. The parents, IMHO, are not blameless.

I sympathise with you're position but your dog (not baby) bit a young child who is too young to have a skin graft but possibly needs one in the future. The child's parents want your dog out to sleep.

Your solicitor can only give his/her opinion that the parents were negligent. Did your solicitor mention 'contributory negligence'. Check it out and answer honestly what proportion rests with you.

If this was one of our dogs then they would have been out down, yes there would be crying in our house - our dogs are part of the family but where children are concerned a dog is a dog and your dog werent under control.

I genuinely do sympathise with you.

Storminateacup

Astra, what you have described with the brush was exactly how my dog was when we got him first.

I haven't got it in me to be cruel to an animal. I don't even have it in me to "be the boss". As much as I love animals, I swear to God I will never own another dog again. I'm not responsible enough, and I'd never ever forgive myself should another child be hurt.

There are 3 of us living at home, and ever since we got the dog, he's attached himself to me. He's my boy, purely and simply. I idolise the ground that dog walks on. When we got him 1st, he was a bag of nerves. We assumed it was because he was fully grown, in a new home, and gradually he began to trust us, and seemed to have grown out of it.

There has been one occasion though, that my brother took up a mop to wash the floor and the dog took away like lightening, through the house, into my room and straight in on top of me in the bed, whimpering.
He snuggled in like a tiny puppy and was not moving. The dog was shaking. He relaxed fine laying next to me and all was okay again.

My brother didn't hit him - has never hit him or been cruel to him, but my brother doesn't fuss over him like I do. My dog doesn't seem to be close to my brother. He won't go walkies with him, or he won't roam up to my brothers room and get in on top of him in the bed. He does with me. He doesn't kiss either my dad or my brother.

Its safe to say, hes definately my boy.


The vet said collies are not childrens dogs and they DO suffer from a lot of anxity.

I was obviously stupid enough to think that him being scared of brushes ect would go away once he seen that we wouldn't hurt him or hit him, and I honestly did think he was getting better because now when the floor is being mopped he barely rises his head anymore, but he obviously must have been super nervous.

My dads going to have him put to sleep. This has honestly been one of the worst days of my life. I can't eat, I can't sleep. And its making it so much harder, cause he comes next to me and sits so close. He obviously trusts me, comes walkies with me, feels safe with me, and Im going to betray him in the worst possible way.

Thanks for all your replies, but this is what we have to do.

astra2000

Storminateacup wrote: »

I was obviously stupid enough to think that him being scared of brushes ect would go away once he seen that we wouldn't hurt him or hit him, and I honestly did think he was getting better because now when the floor is being mopped he barely rises his head anymore, but he obviously must have been super nervous.

Well that makes two of us,reason we only had this dog 4yrswas because one day out of the blue it attacked a neighbours much smaller dog as they were walking past our house it was an unprovoked attack. He was savaging the dog and could not separate them until my son thinking quick ran in and got the brush, the second he spotted that he let go and fled for his life! We made the desision to have him put down as it was the neighbours kids who walked the dog and it was bad enough been afraid he would attack their dog but imagine if he had gone for one of the children/
I think your dad has made the right decision much and all as it hurts. As for the issue of never getting another dog, dont consider that as an option for now allow your self time to to get used to life without your pet. You really sound like a responsible loving pet owner and it would be a pity to deprive yourself of a pet in the long term. Best wishes

Zapperzy

Im very sorry to hear that your putting him to sleep, it honestly is one of the hardest decisions to make, a decision only pet owners can understand just how difficult it is to make.

I just wanted to comment on how responsible you have been all through this, there are many who would make a rash decision and stick with it (some would be too quick to put the dog down and others would be too narrow minded to even consider euthanasia and would just point blank refuse to even consider it). You have taken everything into consideration, weighed up your options and made a decision.

Make his last days happy ones and RIP doggy. Hope the child is ok too.

Peace

Its the right decision. The dog crossed a line and now a child is physically scarred for the foreseeable future and possibly psycologically scarred for life.

I have no doubt that this is difficult as pets can become part of the family but the risk that another child could be mauled is not a risk you would have the right to take.

pokertalk

the fact of the matter is this could happen to any dog owner as we never truly know what is going on in a dogs head. your making a very hard decision and one people often would not make. dont deprive yourself of owning another dog as you sound like a very capable dog owner. this is the problem with alot of rescue dogs in the way that we never really know a proper background. enjoy you time with your dog baby him all you want:(
its a v sad story but its a story thats going to make me extra extra vigilant with my two.

Storminateacup

I can't sleep. I can't eat. I can barely see my eyes are so swollen.
He's laying on his bed that Santa brought him, oblivious to all that's going on.
Snuggling into him earlier relaxed me so much until I realised really what I was going to do to him.

I know it sounds stupid but this is the only time I really hope there's no "afterlife" because the thoughts of him KNOWING what I did is eating me up.

Can honestly say this has been the worst birthday of my life, my poor little baby.

The above poster is right, you never can tell. Just be careful, you guys. Even the quietest kindest tamest dog can flip. Don't put your pets in such a horrid position as I put mine in.

He always will be my boy.

smellslikeshoes

Definitely the right decision, frankly I'm a bit surprised about how many people suggested not to have the dog put to sleep. It's not like it was a little bite on the hand or anything, the dog went for the kids face and took enough skin off to reach the bone, this could have been much much worse. To suggest anything other than the dog being destroyed immediately is downright ridiculous.

belongtojazz

I just wanted to say how much this story upset me. Just the thought of being in that position with my dogs absolutely breaks my heart. Such a tough decision to make.

Hope the child is doing ok.

Like Pokertalk said it has made me even more vigilant with my lot, you really never know what is going to trigger a reaction like that from a dog

Thinking of you

seamus

While I don't necessarily agree with your decision, it's your decision to make, and it took a lot of guts to make it.

You have my sympathies. Take a couple of days off work/school/college and spend time with him, let him know he's loved and he's not a bad dog.

pickarooney

I don't understand the situation at all. These 'people', who are not friends of yours apparently, just showed up at your house, let their kids out of the car to play with the dog (or not, if the dog was inside) and stayed sitting in the car? But the woman opened the front door at some stage... I'm not sure it makes much difference, but the events surrounding the attack are really unclear.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'll have to say, and I'm sincerely sorry that I'm not making your decision any easier.

But if there's the slightest hope I'd go to the ends of the earth to same my dogs.

Reading the OP's last post is heart breaking, anyone who love's their dogs can feel the hurt and anguish in the OP's heart.

Either I'm a coward, or greedy - but I couldn't put PTS either of my lads if there was a hope I'd fight their corner.

Maybe take legal advice?.

Storminateacup

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't understand the situation at all. These 'people', who are not friends of yours apparently, just showed up at your house, let their kids out of the car to play with the dog (or not, if the dog was inside) and stayed sitting in the car? But the woman opened the front door at some stage... I'm not sure it makes much difference, but the events surrounding the attack are really unclear.

they're neighbours. They had a kitten they didn't want and they asked me to take it instead of having it put to sleep. The mother got out, opened the door as I had the kitten in it's bed in my arms. They sat back into the car smoking while the children ran around two dogs, unsupervised.

The gardai called about ten mins ago. The dog def has to go, whether we want to or not. So help me god if they so much as ever step foot inside any of our property again, I'll be dug out of them.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I think this thread should be a reminder for us all to be ever on our guard.

As someone said earlier, we just don't know whats going on inside our dogs heads.

And I often tell people, our dogs don't bite because they don't want to bite us - press the right button and its their only real defence to fear.

I'd hate to be in your position OP, it would kill me.

reeta

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The dog is dangerous and should be euthanized. No ifs or buts, it sounds like quite a viscous attack and no amount of behaviour "therapy" will mean you will have confidence in him around children. In short get rid of him.

What a ridiculous comment, obviously you have never owned a dog...

reeta

Storminateacup wrote: »

they're neighbours. They had a kitten they didn't want and they asked me to take it instead of having it put to sleep. The mother got out, opened the door as I had the kitten in it's bed in my arms. They sat back into the car smoking while the children ran around two dogs, unsupervised.

The gardai called about ten mins ago. The dog def has to go, whether we want to or not. So help me god if they so much as ever step foot inside any of our property again, I'll be dug out of them.

I am absolutely heart broken for you, I dont know what I would do if it
happened to me (I have a 5 month old cocker spaniel) and he means more to me then anything... the unconditional love etc.., (and yes I do have children I have never been so upset reading a thread.. I would actually move away with the dog rather than get her put down !!!

Jelly2

It's an awful situation, and almost identical to one that we had in our family when I was a teenager. A beautiful purebred collie wandered into our yard one day, and we took him in. We adored him and he was a fantastic dog - friendly, playful, easygoing - most of the time. We even did a few local dog shows with him, and I remember that he was reserve champion a few times (not Crufts, but hey!).
Anyway, we noticed a few times that he was a bit snappish, and he did in fact snap at a few members of our family. But it was nothing serious really, and they were all adults, and he didn't do any damage. We just thought he was a bit nervous. In hindsight, of course, maybe this was the reason his previous owners abandoned him.
One day, he wandered to a house about a mile from ours, and we got a phone call that evening. The next day, the mother and her four year old son arrived at the front door - and we saw a number of stitches on the child's cheek. The dog had wandered into their yard, and bitten the child on the face. The gash was not huge, but it was a horrible shock to see what he had done. The father asked what would be done, and my Dad simply said that the dog was a stray that we had looked after, but that we could not protest if he chose to have it put down. And that was what happened. We hated that it had to be done, but that child was hurt, and that dog was not safe (I know you can never be 100% sure of any animal, of course). Our only regret was that we did not take heed of the warning signs.

anniehoo

Storminateacup wrote: »

My dads going to have him put to sleep. This has honestly been one of the worst days of my life.

Im truly sorry OP, what an absolutely horrendous decsion to have to make. While i dont agree with it either you have obviously made your mind up with what you feel is the right thing to do. The only consolation i can give you is he wont feel a thing when he is pts, not a thing ok. It is a really peaceful procedure, one i had to do this year with my own dog.

Dog owners, this is a big lesson. Dont ever 100% trust your dog around children. EVER. We cant know what they are thinking and/or what might trigger an attack. EVERY dog has the capability to do damage as the OP has learned the hard way.

Op, please dont let this put you off owning another dog,you sound very responsible and caring.

astra2000

reeta wrote: »

What a ridiculous comment, obviously you have never owned a dog...

I am genuinely curious what part of oppenheimers post is ridiculous it seemed on par with what a lot of us have said.

convert

OP, you really have my deepest sympathies. I completely understand your feeling of betrayal; I went through the same thing recently.

However, I do think you are doing the right thing. Think about how you would feel if your dog did that to somebody else at some point in the future. Even with all the training, behavioural and psychological, that your dog can get, animals are always going to be unpredictable and it would be awful for all involved if a similar incident should happen again.

Try give your dog a nice few days with lots of fun and treats before you have to put him down.

wolfpawnat

OP, I am sorry your dog is bring put to sleep, but in all fairness it has torn through a 4 year olds skin and cut to the bone. If an animal did that to my child I would probably request the same. I adore animals but my son is my child. I would move mountains for him. I know you see the dog as your child, but these people are thinking of an actual child.

You are blaming your neighbours, but it your fault not theirs!!! It does not matter where or how it took place the dog must be controlled and you must be aware of it at all times. That animal is not safe to humans. I was attacked by my own dog years ago, my hand is still scarred to this day, I loved him dearly and I was a teenager, but he HAD to be put to sleep, it is the right thing to do!

When I had my son, I had to get rid of my 2 dogs, though one was good around children, the other was a princess and a terrier, not a good combination!!! They are alive and well, but I had to prioritize! If you had children OP you would understand.

I am sorry you have to lose your friend, and I know how it is when they are there for you when no one else is. Please when you are ready, consider getting another dog, you seem like a person who does love and look after animals!

reeta

astra2000 wrote: »

I am genuinely curious what part of oppenheimers post is ridiculous it seemed on par with what a lot of us have said.

Its not what he said its how he said it "in short get rid of it", they are
very hurtful words to say to someone who has to get rid of his (as he
sees it) best friend. A bit of compassion would help. And yes I
have huge sympathy for the child as well who will probably have a fear
of dogs for the rest of their life...

planetX

OP you're doing the right thing. And you're not betraying your dog - you've given him a good life, and he'll have an easier way out of it than many of us or our pets will have. If it was a warning nip it might be different, but a full on attack like that can't be forgotten. I hope you eventually get another dog, maybe an easier breed next time to get your confidence back. It's a horrible horrible situation that could happen to anyone.

Storminateacup

Wolfpawpat.

I understand what you are saying but I find that post extremely condesending.
"when you have children yourself". Not that it's relevent to the topic at hand but I had a stillborn daughter last november. This entire year has been beyond traumatic and as pathetic as it sounds I relied more on that dog, than I did on anybody else around that time. That dog really was my best friend, the only living thing I felt able to be truely honest with.

To assume I don't know how to feel real love is extremely upsetting and offensive.
While I agree if a dog bit my child, I'd be livid also, and most likely want the dog destroyer, it does not make it any easier.

He is still the dog I had through the most difficult periods in my life, he's still the dog that came swishing up to my bedroom to lick me good morning when I hadn't the will nor wish to get out of the bed. He's the dog I clung to and talked to when nobody understood.

To assume that my feelings are less important than the childs parents, I'm actually offended.

As I said before, I take responsibility for what my dog did. I'm trying to do the right thing. I do not take responsibility for her children however. It was not my responsibility to be watching those children.
What I'm questioning is, what sort of parent would allow a 4 year old to run unsupervised around a farm?? If god forbid another animal had escaped or broken out and had injured her, would that be our fault too??

I know ultimatily I am responsible for my dog. I am accepting that. While I accept most of the liabily I do not accept it all, as had her parents been taking reasonable care of their children, it wouldn't have happened either.

There is no way in hell I would allow my child run around dogs I didn't know or trust or come in contact with before. There is definately no way I'd allow them run riot with a dog that didn't know them.

See where I'm going with this??

They're just kids are they?? Well he's just a dumb animal. He doesn't understand they weren't a threat. It's not like savaging children is how he passes his free time. For reasons unknown he obviously felt in danger.

I understand that he's now a dangerous dog, thus unsafe to keep, and however much it breaks my heart, I know it's really the only safest option. It's not a decision I made lightly, it's not a decison I agree with, but the right thing to do is usually the hardest.

He'll always be my boy. I mean that. I'd trust that dog with my life but I can't risk somebody elses.

alanvor

Storminateacup wrote: »

I've made a decision, after seeking advice from both a vet and a solicitor.

I'm going to wait a couple of days for the dust to settle, I understand - as any parent would be - that shes extremely upset and I'm not saying she's going to be fine about it in a couple of days, I don't think like that at all, in the slightest.

I'm going to go talk with her, and tell her exactly what I've told you guys, except for the being sad part because I don't want to make her feel guilty. I will assure her that the dog will be kept muzzled at all times while outside, even when on our property, and will be kept away from people he doesn't know or trust.
I will have the details of the behavioural therapist I will take my dog to, and I will have a full physical examination done,to ensure the dog is physically alright.

I will ask her to reconsider, I will ask her if she will allow him to live. I will give her those assurances, and by god, I mean them, because I am under no illusion how serious and terrible and dangerous this situation is.

If she still insists the dog - my baby - be put to sleep, I'll say fair enough.
I adore the dog, but at the end of the day, the childs safety comes 1st.

So basically, I'm going to leave it entirely up to the childs mother & father. Just try put forward a serious plea that I promise will never happen again.

Do you think this is ok? Am I being selfish, prolonging it all.
I feel awful, the poor dog isnt himself at all today.

You are doing the right thing, make no mistake. Adter all it is a life you are holding in your hands! As you have said earlier, he was the one to greet you in the mornings etc etc - there is obviously love that exists between the two of you.

Something else that has not even been broached is whether the child antagonised him at all. Unfortunately we live in an age where children are not properly disciplined.

Good luck and please make the correct decision, the one that YOU know is the right one

arybvtcw0eolkf

wolfpawnat wrote: »

If an animal did that to my child I would not stop until it's skull was crushed.

The OP is in enough emotional pain, and that aside, do you really think thats appropriate language for an animal forum?.

I'm hardly the shrinking violet, but winched when I read that.

alanvor

Archer Lively Chess wrote: »

The OP is in enough emotional pain, and that aside, do you really think thats appropriate language for an animal forum?.

I'm hardly the shrinking violet, but winched when I read that.

I totally agree with you, how callous people can be! Wow, the child is still alive, why kill the dog, and in the process tear storminateacup's life apart.

Storminateacup

He's gone