Anglo Staff Member Commits Suicide - Sean Fitzpatrick still laughing

Riddle101

Plautus wrote: »

Fraught mental states are just that - it isn't a pissing contest of which had the better 'grounds', the worse childhood trauma, for killing themselves. Really, for someone who claims to have experience of the phenomenon of suicide you're being remarkably insensitive. Suicide has major consequences and repercussions for family members, this is not being denied, but the people who do it are ill, not selfish. It's just needlessly judgmental language you're using.

I assume you're talking to me. Well I guess maybe I am being a bit harsh and insensitive. Suicide is a sensitive issue after all. But at the same time it's wrong to justify it as well.

gizmo

My name is URL wrote: »

It's one chain of events.. nobody knows what else was happening in the guys life that may have lent itself to his decision to end it. I just think it's a bit rich for the media to be playing it up as an act of escape from the public when they've been the ones stoking the fire for the last 2 years.

Occam's Razor to be honest. Large numbers of people harassing him on a daily basis, his health begins to decline, he's then moved away from this position after staff and management see what was going on and become concerned. Soon later he kills himself. While it certainly doesn't prove anything, I think it's quite obvious what happened.

For argument's sake though, let's consider the alternative, that his depression was caused by some other reason. That still doesn't excuse the abuse he was getting from the public, even if it wasn't what caused him to eventually take his own life.

And spitting at people? Don't even get me ****ing started...

Plautus

Nobody's justifying his suicide Riddle101 (as in what, suggesting it was a great idea?) From what I can see, they're objecting mainly to the use of the word 'selfish' to describe the actions of a person suffering mental distress. Either mental illness that impairs cognitive function and decision-making ability is just as life-threatening as heart disease or cancer or it isn't. If it is, then why not describe those who succumb to physical illnesses as selfish? Because you know that you'd look a bit of a dick if you did?

Point being that a person in the pits of depression rarely has the benefit of perspective. Talk of 'selfishness' is anathema to any serious discussion of suicide, perhaps even downright ignorant of the mental state a person is in. As someone else mentioned in the thread earlier - people who commit suicide often think they're doing the world a favour by rubbing themselves out of existence.

They're not right of course, but they don't deserve stigma either. They deserve non-judgmental medical treatment that will get them back on an even keel.

leddpipe

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, this isn't Sean Fitzpatrick's fault.

It's the fault of the morons who have been/are giving ordinary staff members abuse because of who they're working for.

Standing outside abusing people going in and out of the building? Animals. They're to blame for this guy's death.

including many boardsies im sure!

jackiebaron

Poor bastard should have come to work dressed in janitor's overalls and changed into his shirt and tie inside. He might have avoided the abuse from the scumbags.

j1974

Vim Fuego wrote: »

I feel bad for that guy's wife & kids. In this case, it did say they moved him to a non-public facing role so Anglo did what they could for him. Jesus, just quit* - the only people that should be swinging for this are Seanie, Fingers & co.

*yeah, easy for me to say I know but still, I'd give unemployment a go before the noose. It's not like his wife & kids will be getting any insurance money now or anything. Sorry to be critical of the guy but I've seen this sort of thing in my own life and it's frustrating to see.

unfortunately as of late, most men are forced to give unemployment a go and then choosing the noose, sad but true. it seems to be a natural progression for the more heavily burdened and fragile minds.

Makes me ****in sick, during the election brian lenihan and pat carey tried to shake my hand and i told them No thanks, ive just washed my hands now **** off. but in truth, as I wandered round the supermarket with the missus I was pondering buyin a half dozen of cappoquinns finest and bouncin them off their teflon suits. when i came out, they'd gone.

sock puppet

Riddle101 wrote: »

In other words try walking a mile in the mans feet before judging him right. Like I said before, i'm not so distanced to suicide that i haven't expierenced it first hand. My cousin like I said before tried it last week. But unlike this guy, I could understand why my cousin might have. He was burned as a child and was horribly scarred in the face when he was 8. His father was an alcholic who used to beat his mother, and eventually walked out on his family. His mother died 4 years ago, leaving his eldest sister of 18 to take care of him and his younger sister of 13, he was 15 at the time. Despite all that, the family have had to deal with his mothers alcholism problem as well before she died, so they had a pretty rough life and the only one who was close enough to a parent was their grandmother who is now in a retirement home unable to take care of herself now. Now my family, and our relatives have all tried to help out and support them as best we could, but in the end they had a lot to deal with. A lot of traumatic stuff happen. Now ask yourself this, compare my cousin's story to this man's and tell me which is the better grounds to commit suicide. Now luckily we managed to stop my cousin before anything bad really happened almost bearly, but i'm not so blind that I don't understand it. BTW I know it's wrong to be comparing those type of stories, it a terrible thing really but in the interest of whether people think the guy committing suicide is reasonable enough, I just want people to know that there are a lot worse off people. Maybe the guy was far to gone to understand it, but my heart goes out to the family.

Like I said before, it's tragic and I guess in some ways feel sorry for him, I really do. But the idea of how his family will cope is what i'm thinking about

What bizzare reasoning. You talk as if external factors are the only things that ever influence people's decisions.

aidan24326

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

From OP's Indo link



I think I'm going to be sick

ejmaztec wrote: »

The "mob" thinks there's a point to it.

I'd understand it if they went after the right people, but they're not going to find any of them in their local branch, or any other branch for that matter. Until someone decides to go after the big knobs, people like Fitzpatrick will continue laughing their heads off, because they've still got lots of arse-licking friends in high places, who are going to help them to get away with what they've done.

I think I'm going to be sick too. Fitzpatrick was given some kind of hero's welcome into the barrister's tearoom? WTF? (he's not a lawyer in case anyone was wondering).

Though really I'm not too surprised. That the law library should openly welcome a gangster like him into their midst shows you what you're dealing with there. Inside the walls of the four courts goldmines lies another layer of protection for the elite few that have looted and bankupted this country.

"The cause of our problem was global, so I can't say 'sorry' with any kind of sincerity".
FitzPatrick addressed the government in another speech on the same day and recommended cutting spending on what he called the "sacred cows" of Irish society: children, the elderly and health care.

Chairman Meow

moonpurple wrote: »

today independant newspaper

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-2349465.html

everyone has to use the four courts entrance facing the river unless you have the ID to use the law library entrance, city centre end, side street, which means that your are a barrister, solicitor, courts service employee, or still a protected insider..sean fitzpatrick

this guy is no longer laughing up his sleeve at us, he is just laughing at us..:cool:

one rule for some
another rule for everybody else?

Not quite true, anyone can EXIT fromt he luas side entrance, but only us in the know can use it as an entrance.

Riddle101

Plautus wrote: »

Nobody's justifying his suicide Riddle101 (as in what, suggesting it was a great idea?) From what I can see, they're objecting mainly to the use of the word 'selfish' to describe the actions of a person suffering mental distress. Either mental illness that impairs cognitive function and decision-making ability is just as life-threatening as heart disease or cancer or it isn't. If it is, then why not describe those who succumb to physical illnesses as selfish? Because you know that you'd look a bit of a dick if you did?

Point being that a person in the pits of depression rarely has the benefit of perspective. Talk of 'selfishness' is anathema to any serious discussion of suicide, perhaps even downright ignorant of the mental state a person is in. As someone else mentioned in the thread earlier - people who commit suicide often think they're doing the world a favour by rubbing themselves out of existence.

They're not right of course, but they don't deserve stigma either. They deserve non-judgmental medical treatment that will get them back on an even keel.

It depends on how deep his depression was though. If it was so bad that his mind and judgment were clouded to the point where he wasn't thinking straight then maybe my comments about him being selfish were wrong. But if it was to the point that he still had his state of mind, then I don't know, when you have a family that are proberly counting on you to bring home the money, and you still have your wits about you. How do you find suicide is the only option. Again, maybe it's wrong to label all suicide as selfish. But it's something that i'm strongly oppossed to(suicide).

MrDarcy

The thead raises one very interesting point... The amount of sheer anger out there is hard to describe. The thing is, a lot of this anger is not grounded in the banking crisis or the economic crisis.

It's hard to describe this, but the slightest thing at all now and you are getting daggers from someone. Yesterday I went to cross a road, a car on the road was stopped because the driver was turning left. We looked at each other, I didn't know if he was going to move off, he didn't know if I was going to step out in front of him, so I decided to stay where I was until he moved because if I got it wrong and stepped out in front of him when he decided to move off, I'd be mashed.

A simple little situation, just a pedestrian being cautious and your man revs the absolute f*ck out of the car and takes the left turn with the car probably up on two wheels he was that annoyed at me.

Then I think back to the day before yesterday, I get a call from a customer, an item they ordered an hour previously has not been received yet, more abuse and hyper behaviour.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is an undescribable amount of anger and rage out there and I can't really accept that it is down to the banking crisis or the state of the economy.

It feels like the whole country is completely living on its nerve and the slightest little thing at all and people are resorting to rage, unleashing bile and fury...

I'd love to know why we are all so utterly f*cking angry at this time???

MrDarcy

Riddle101 wrote: »

It depends on how deep his depression was though. If it was so bad that his mind and judgment were clouded to the point where he wasn't thinking straight then maybe my comments about him being selfish were wrong. But if it was to the point that he still had his state of mind, then I don't know, when you have a family that are proberly counting on you to bring home the money, and you still have your wits about you. How do you find suicide is the only option. Again, maybe it's wrong to label all suicide as selfish. But it's something that i'm strongly oppossed to(suicide).

Women don't understand this emotion enough I think, but men are genetically wired to be providers, when there are children involved, the failure to be able to provide is a hugely powerful emotion, it can drive depression like nothing else, compounding and reinforcing the perceived notion of entire failure as a person...

Sticky_Fingers

walter sobchak wrote: »

You might want to reconsider your sig. if this is your opinion... pretty bad taste in the light of this thread

Fair cop and I'll take it under advisement but I'm am probably going to keep it. I intend no disrespect though to the man or his family.

ClutchIt

Max Power1 wrote: »

trial by media?

We are now one step away from mob rule.

One step from Mob rule? Are you high? People say shít, nobody actually does anything. I doubt there is a country in the world farther from mob rule than us. I actually think this is a pity also.

thebaz

Morlar wrote: »

RIP to the family. Fitzpatrick on the other hand should be in prison.


Can anyone explain what this is about ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/wife-worth-euro3m-as-seanie-laughs-all-the-way-to-court-2349465.html

If true, Quite sickening that the legal eagles, gave Seanie a warm welcome in their chamber, just goes to show that there is a golden circle of untouchables in Ireland - fancy a round in Marbella at the weekend ? - or are you slumming round Greystones amongst the plebs who are picking up our tab

Plautus

Riddle101 wrote: »

It depends on how deep his depression was though. If it was so bad that his mind and judgment were clouded to the point where he wasn't thinking straight then maybe my comments about him being selfish were wrong. But if it was to the point that he still had his state of mind, then I don't know, when you have a family that are proberly counting on you to bring home the money, and you still have your wits about you. How do you find suicide is the only option. Again, maybe it's wrong to label all suicide as selfish. But it's something that i'm strongly oppossed to(suicide).

You do know the majority of suicides take place under precisely such circumstances as you deem maybe 'un-selfish'?

Some people in this thread have described suicidal ideation but having recoiled from it because they considered the impact it might have on their relatives. Not to put too fine a point on it, but these people have neither attempted nor committed suicide (obviously.)

Consider that those who go through with it usually do not have the benefit of such a perspective. They do not have their 'wits' about them (I mean, really, you think suicidal people are coldly rational?) They are not just a little bit blue. People who commit suicide make a faulty weighing of the pros and cons, often seeing suicide as providing relief from their own pain and those of others they perceive as 'putting up with them.' The last thing they need is to be branded 'selfish' either in life (if they make an attempt and fail) or death.

You won't succeed in reducing suicide by stigmatising the victims of it as 'selfish'. How ignorant/insensitive do you have to be? I say this as someone who went through depression myself. I felt pretty bad, I thought a lot about suicide; but I never brought myself to doing it. So I can only imagine how bad people who do go through with it feel and all I can think is that it is a shame they didn't get the serious help they needed. 'Selfish', like 'waster' and 'layabout' and 'spoofer' and a thousand other words I've had to deal with myself, are harsh and demeaning names and seem to be entirely misplaced anger. Hate the illness, not the person.

AudreyHepburn

How tragic, the poor man! My heart goes out to his family. RIP.

However can I just say, this thread does strike me as a little hypocritical tbh. Everyone is expresses anger and outrage at those who abused this man, rightly so HOWEVER I'd be very surprised to hear that no-one hear ever critised a bank or its employees in recent times.

I'll hold my hands up and admit I have, because lets be honest they've left the country in a mess.

I know it's not the employees' fault, my uncle is one and he works himself to the bone trying to fix things. But I would be surprised if no-one had done what is being critised here.

Plautus

There's a world of difference between criticising reckless lending policy and bemoaning the lack of capital liquidity in the financial markets ... and verbally abusing rank and file employees of Anglo-Irish bank. Can't say many here would have done that.

Sure, some of the stuff said about Sean Fitzpatrick tends to be OTT and a little on the lynch mob end of things; and that isn't miles away from what this guy was enduring, but it remains that Sean Fitz behaved deviously, recklessly and greedily. I would never let my criticism of him extend beyond that. 'Economic treason' is some kind of crimina excepta that everybody loves to talk about as if it were so easily definable or, er, an actual capital crime.

Needless to say, I don't like taking taxis much these days -_-

My name is URL

gizmo wrote: »

Occam's Razor to be honest. Large numbers of people harassing him on a daily basis, his health begins to decline, he's then moved away from this position after staff and management see what was going on and become concerned. Soon later he kills himself. While it certainly doesn't prove anything, I think it's quite obvious what happened.

For argument's sake though, let's consider the alternative, that his depression was caused by some other reason. That still doesn't excuse the abuse he was getting from the public, even if it wasn't what caused him to eventually take his own life.

And spitting at people? Don't even get me ****ing started...

I don't doubt that the abuse towards him was a contributing factor, that **** would affect anyone. The people that spat and hurled insults at him are mindless idiots, but that doesn't change the fact that those idiots have been feeding on the trash spouted by newspapers, and base their opinions of others on what is said in the rags. I bet if you search the Tribune's site for the word "bankers" that many of the results will be for articles shining "bankers" in a negative light.

They, and all the other papers only want to sell a story, be it by generalising and lambasting "bankers" or blaming the public for a bankers suicide. Where's the mention in that article about the hate filled media who have caused some idiots to react in this way against the banking sector as a whole? The greedy fcuking twats don't care about the man.. how long will it take for them to revert back to their wholesale hatred towards "bankers"?

Johnny Utah

Morlar wrote: »

RIP to the family. Fitzpatrick on the other hand should be in prison.


Can anyone explain what this is about ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/wife-worth-euro3m-as-seanie-laughs-all-the-way-to-court-2349465.html

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

That my friend is about cute hoorism, sure how did you do it Seanie and isn't terrible that they are coming after you after all the good work that you've done. It's about a sickness that has festered in this country since its foundation, we got rid of the British but we have kept the school tie system and the old boys club that they have managed to shrug off.

It is what is truly wrong with this country, from these ranks will come our future judges and law makers and they are having tea with a man who has heralded the ruination of this state. This country needs to wake up, we are acting like 19th century serfs tugging our forelocks to these bottom feeders and confidence tricksters. They have presided over what may very well be the economic destruction of our nation and they have the gall to celebrate (or commiserate) with one of its principle architects.

The Greeks said that they are not like the Irish but its the absolute contempt shown to the people of this nation by these parasites that makes me wish that we had a bit more Greek in us.

aidan24326 wrote: »

I think I'm going to be sick too. Fitzpatrick was given some kind of hero's welcome into the barrister's tearoom? WTF? (he's not a lawyer in case anyone was wondering).

Though really I'm not too surprised. That the law library should openly welcome a gangster like him into their midst shows you what you're dealing with there. Inside the walls of the four courts goldmines lies another layer of protection for the elite few that have looted and bankupted this country.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

Sticky_Fingers

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

You know something we don't, spill the beans

Craebear

If someone shot this guy, they'd be a national hero.

Johnny Utah

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

You know something we don't, spill the beans

No, I don't have any inside knowledge about this specific case or the reported incident yesterday. I'm not in the law library. All I said was to 'not belive everything you read in the papers'...... perhaps he was meeting his own legal team and was greeted by them; the Indo then runs with a sensationalist story :rolleyes:

Tbh, I'm getting a bit sick with all this lawyer bashing, we had it another thread recently here too!

gizmo

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't doubt that the abuse towards him was a contributing factor, that **** would affect anyone. The people that spat and hurled insults at him are mindless idiots, but that doesn't change the fact that those idiots have been feeding on the trash spouted by newspapers, and base their opinions of others on what is said in the rags. I bet if you search the Tribune's site for the word "bankers" that many of the results will be for articles shining "bankers" in a negative light.

They, and all the other papers only want to sell a story, be it by generalising and lambasting "bankers" or blaming the public for a bankers suicide. Where's the mention in that article about the hate filled media who have caused some idiots to react in this way against the banking sector as a whole? The greedy fcuking twats don't care about the man.. how long will it take for them to revert back to their wholesale hatred towards "bankers"?

While I don't doubt the media have had their hand in the rabble, one need look no further than Boards to see the same hate filled vitriol being spouted by people despite them not actually understanding what has happened. You can blame the media for affecting these people too of course but if you're capable of joining an internet forum and posting about it then you're more than capable of educating yourself on the factors which caused the current crisis. As I said above, it's nice to see people's sympathy for the man and his family but I wonder how long it will take for them too to regress back to the "****ing bankers" stage.

ejmaztec

gizmo wrote: »

While I don't doubt the media have had their hand in the rabble, one need look no further than Boards to see the same hate filled vitriol being spouted by people despite them not actually understanding what has happened. You can blame the media for affecting these people too of course but if you're capable of joining an internet forum and posting about it then you're more than capable of educating yourself on the factors which caused the current crisis. As I said above, it's nice to see people's sympathy for the man and his family but I wonder how long it will take for them too to regress back to the "****ing bankers" stage.

I think that most intelligent people know which bankers to have a go at, and always have known, but the mob wants to string up all bank employees.

Riddle101

Plautus wrote: »

You won't succeed in reducing suicide by stigmatising the victims of it as 'selfish'. How ignorant/insensitive do you have to be? I say this as someone who went through depression myself. I felt pretty bad, I thought a lot about suicide; but I never brought myself to doing it. So I can only imagine how bad people who do go through with it feel and all I can think is that it is a shame they didn't get the serious help they needed. 'Selfish', like 'waster' and 'layabout' and 'spoofer' and a thousand other words I've had to deal with myself, are harsh and demeaning names and seem to be entirely misplaced anger. Hate the illness, not the person.

There are a lot of people out there who agree and disagree to yours/my opinion(maybe not of this thread or forum). While you don't brand it as selfish for someone to take his/her life especially if they suffer from depression. I find it is in away because there are people out there who have died that didn't need/want to die. If you think about it this way. It's selfish to me because, it's like spitting in the face of people who have died of cancer or heart attacks, etc. Do you think the families of those type of victims, deserve that type of a burden. To be have a loved one go because it was just their time and there was no other way to save them. Then you have a person who even though he/she might be depressed, still has a life. Yet would give it up. It really depends on how bad you really are. Life is a beautiful thing, it's not something to be looked at, as a curse or a burden. I'm sorry that you had to go through depression yourself. It must have been hard for you. But at the risk of going any deeper then I already am. That's all I have to say about that.

gizmo

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that most intelligent people know which bankers to have a go at, and always have known, but the mob wants to string up all bank employees.

Indeed, and that's what I'm lamenting unfortunately.

Riddle101

Riddle101 wrote: »

Whether Stephen Doyle couldn't cope with the abuse he was receiving is not the problem. The issue I have is that he left his wife and two nine month old daughters behind like that. I can't respect a man who would do something so selfish, so I won't be giving my condolences to the man. Instead I pray for the family that they will be able to cope now without him. I'm not sure if the wife works or not but these are hard economical times, and if the wife is taken care of the children then who is out bringing in the wages to support the family?

Depression is an awful affliction and perhaps as you obviously don't understand it, you shouldn't talk about it like such.

Biggins

We don't know the FULL details of why he did what he did or specifics of the abuse he got in relation to how it effected EXACTLY his relationships with his family and/or his outlook on life.
We don't know how he was being treated exactly for his depression, if he was on medication and/or the quality of the support system he had around him in in times of stress, etc.

I mention all the above because some armchair specialists seems to be able to quickly judge on the sad outcome of the mans death and outright state a verdict.

I won't say it was right or wrong, I can't for I'm not wise to the FULL details.
I will say that any family that find themselves having to cope with this situation, has my deepest sympathies.
End of story.

Riddle101

Deleted User wrote: »

Depression is an awful affliction and perhaps as you obviously don't understand it, you shouldn't talk about it like such.

Yeah we've been down this road before. Thanks