Dole claimants may have to work in community

carbsy

nachoman wrote: »

It'll toughen them up, get rid of the silver spoon wedged in their gob and get rid of the sense of entitlement graduates had in the celtic tiger blah blah blah insert Bill Cullen rant here.

wtf are you on about? Just because someone has a law degree or had been an accountant doesn't mean that they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths! Grow up ffs! how about all the people that worked double shifts and scrapped and scraped to get these qualifications? hmmm another well thought out post! :eek: :rolleyes:

flutered

Septic Leper wrote: »

A shi!te experience!! but for the people that are on the dole and doing nothing except drinking and being bums in general ,it might make them think of a new career path;)

it seems to me that you have never to live on 196 lids.

Amhran Nua

Just a couple of points here, many of those on social welfare at the moment have already paid quite a lot of money into the system via PRSI - someone earning 30k per year, below average wage, for twenty years, has already put in 60k probably plus health levy. Thats around five years of full SW benefits, and it wouldn't be that atypical.

These are the people you want to earn their dole with community work?

During the boom, long term unemployment was hovering around the 1% mark, and thats with hundreds of thousands of Eastern European economic migrants added to the workforce. The vast majority of people on the dole are not feckless spongers, but well educated and motivated people. Rather than this poorly thought out idea the government would be far better off trying to figure out how to use this motivation and education to CREATE jobs, not just go hat in hand to the usual suspects looking for FDI while the civil service tries desperately to get their personal investment properties back into positive equity by fiddling with the banking system.

Voluntary groups are overrun with people that want to help out their community, one of the groups I work with are the VEC and they tell me that volunteer tutor applications are pouring in.

All of the signs point to a government that has utterly and completely failed its people, and now the people are to be punished for that failure by shanghai-ing them into whatever project a well fed and unsackable beaurocrat wants them in?

Hm.

And for those quietly patting themselves on the back that they aren't among the jobless, think about this. It could very easily be you.

Augmerson

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If I lost my Job tomorrow i'd have another one the day after. I passed a few signs for barmen today. There's jobs out there. I saw them and I wasn't even looking.

That's great, and as you have plenty of experience as a barman your bound to get the job. I assume you also like working nights and taking ****e from drunks?

Yes, there are jobs out there. Unfortunately not enough jobs for the 400,000+ unemployed.

-Trek-

Augmerson wrote: »

I think that they should get people off the Dole and into the higher levels of Civil Service and Government.

now this makes more sense.

foxshooter243

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Just a couple of points here, many of those on social welfare at the moment have already paid quite a lot of money into the system via PRSI - someone earning 30k per year, below average wage, for twenty years, has already put in 60k probably plus health levy. Thats around five years of full SW benefits, and it wouldn't be that atypical.

These are the people you want to earn their dole with community work?

During the boom, long term unemployment was hovering around the 1% mark, and thats with hundreds of thousands of Eastern European economic migrants added to the workforce. The vast majority of people on the dole are not feckless spongers, but well educated and motivated people. Rather than this poorly thought out idea the government would be far better off trying to figure out how to use this motivation and education to CREATE jobs, not just go hat in hand to the usual suspects looking for FDI while the civil service tries desperately to get back into positive equity by fiddling with the banking system.

Voluntary groups are overrun with people that want to help out their community, one of the groups I work with are the VEC and they tell me that volunteer tutor applications are pouring in.

All of the signs point to a government that has utterly and completely failed its people, and now the people are to be punished for that failure by shanghai-ing them into whatever project a well fed and unsackable beaurocrat wants them in?

Hm.

And for those quietly patting themselves on the back that they aren't among the jobless, think about this. It could very easily be you.

by far the most sensible post in this thread:)

nachoman

carbsy wrote: »

wtf are you on about? Just because someone has a law degree or had been an accountant doesn't mean that they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths! Grow up ffs! how about all the people that worked double shifts and scrapped and scraped to get these qualifications? hmmm another well thought out post! :eek: :rolleyes:

wow





wow.

Terry

So the builders, bankers and those politicians in their pockets caused all of this, but the people on the dole should pay for it?
Fascinating stuff altogether.

Sitting here in my ivory tower, I'm looking out the window and seeing my fellow ivory tower dwellers spitting on the pond scum.

Having spent some time as part of the pond scum below, and seeing how they treat each other, I'm going to go back and live with them again. I'll just remember to bring an umbrella, and will always be welcoming to those who have recently fallen from their ivory towers.

Pond scum dwellings also offer the opportunity to chop the legs off high horses.

Augmerson

Terry wrote: »

So the builders, bankers and those politicians in their pockets caused all of this, but the people on the dole should pay for it?
Fascinating stuff altogether.

Sitting here in my ivory tower, I'm looking out the window and seeing my fellow ivory tower dwellers spitting on the pond scum.

Having spent some time as part of the pond scum below, and seeing how they treat each other, I'm going to go back and live with them again. I'll just remember to bring an umbrella, and will always be welcoming to those who have recently fallen from their ivory towers.

Pond scum dwellings also offer the opportunity to chop the legs off high horses.

Come back Terry. I've saved you a seat. Eastenders is on in a bit.

Terry

Augmerson wrote: »

Come back Terry. I've saved you a seat. Eastenders is on in a bit.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Fúck that. I'm not going back if I have to watch that. I do have some standards.

homerjay2005

PAULWATSON wrote: »

I know a man who has worked for 30 years, now he is on the dole.

You little bigots would now suggest that he should be degraded to picking up litter in town centers with a high vis vest on his back.

CLOWNS, the lot of you.

bulls*it, i just love the moral outrage cos of one example. this would involve 3% of the total people unemployed rising to about 8%, so first off, the chances of him being selected are slim. for every person like your friend, there are dozens of lazy useless ***** ripping us all off by nliving the highlife off the state.

also, if they did it right, i cant see why it would not work for everybody able to work. your friend, if he did work for 30 years, i am sure has some qualification and this would not involve him picking up litter in a street. if you read the article you will see there would be many opportunities to do something.

i think its a great idea and about time, though i think it will not be done right.

Isnt it great that FF are bringing back the Workhouses, this will not reduce the welfare bill by 1 cent but add millions to it.

:mad:

SCUM FF.

I look forward to the coming revolt.

gizmo

Question, do people actually know the difference between Job Seeker's Allowance and Job Seeker's Benefit?

I can only assume that the vast majority of people on this thread don't as many of the complaints here are completely irrelevant given that these measures are being aimed at the former category.

Augmerson

Deleted User wrote: »

I look forward to the coming revolt.

Don't hold your breath.

Amhran Nua

gizmo wrote: »

Question, do people actually know the difference between Job Seeker's Allowance and Job Seeker's Benefit?

I can only assume that the vast majority of people on this thread don't as many of the complaints here are completely irrelevant given that these measures are being aimed at the former category.

How does that invalidate many of the concerns on the thread? The rules for JB were only changed in 2008 to limit the length of time you can receive JB to one year, meaning even if you had put in tens of thousands of euros into PRSI you were only going to get a fraction of that back. All those people paying faithfully for social insurance for years were failed entirely by a bankrupt government.

This means that JA recipients could be absolutely anyone from long term welfare sponges (a tiny number) to people who have worked for decades and have fallen on hard times, which given employment levels during the boom would be the vast majority of JA recipients. These are the same people that the government wanted to put in a full days work in exchange for their dole on the much abused WPP (and it has been badly abused, look up the threads on the jobs in Spar stocking shelves being advertised as WPP positions).

Good people, failed and failed again by a government that railroaded the nation into the ground.

Stinicker

DonJose wrote: »

The United States did abolish slavery, however their unemployment benefits last a maximum 26 weeks, then its onto the food stamps program. The Irish welfare system is too generous as it is, the recipients should be grateful to offer something back in return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits#United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assistance_Program

Wrong the people of Ireland are crippled with Tax and the people on the dole have paid their tax and are thus deserving of their dole. In America, they have minimal taxation and economic freedom, I consider Ireland to be a country with Scandinavian levels of taxation but American levels of public services and 3rd world infrastructure.

Either you pay taxes and get something in return or you cut taxes and the welfare state. Increasing taxes while cutting the welfare state will backfire badly on this government if they try to implement this.

The dole in this country has kept half a million people out of poverty and if they mess with it then not only will it drive more people in poverty but it will also be the straw that breaks the camels back and if they cut the dole further then it will drive people onto the street and hopefully end this government and the political corruption known as fianna fail.

What needs to happen is welfare reform to get people back to work, wage subsidies and an system to give priority to Irish workers over EU nationals. End all non-EU migration. Introduce a cut-off deadline of say Dec 31st 2011 for all non-Irish EU citizens.

All Jobseekers Allowance (The Dole) claims after that date to be stopped for all non-Irish, Jobseekers Benefit (Your Stamps) for all workers to be unaffected. Basically I don't care where you are from if you have the PRSI Contributions up then you are entitled to draw your stamps (JSB) but if you are not Irish and have exhausted your stamps and are not working then no dole for you.

People must remember the real enemy here are Fianna Fail you have pumped €100bn (of borrowed money) into their vested interests in the banks which will never be seen again. This is a divide and conquer approach by Fianna Fail when we the people should be out protesting, The Dail should be burned and Cowen hanging from the gallows. They have committed economic treason against their people and we the people should wake up and get them out permanently.

the_dark_side

Deleted User wrote: »

Isnt it great that FF are bringing back the Workhouses, this will not reduce the welfare bill by 1 cent but add millions to it.

:mad:

SCUM FF.

I look forward to the coming revolt.

hi... how would it add millions to it?

Stinicker

the_dark_side wrote: »

hi... how would it add millions to it?

I am sure they will set up a new quango to oversee the whole thing, employ about 5,000 morons who are all directly related to some Fianna Fail hack as no normal person gets a job in the Public sector without a FF pull, these are the sort of people who could hardly oversee a piss up in a brewery.

baldbear

Why wasn't this brought in 7 years ago when we had to get thousands of foreign workers to come over and do work in factories etc. when unemployment was at 4%.
Good scheme though, better late than never!

bleg

Perfectly acceptable.

starbelgrade

I wonder if this would be available to people who are unemployed but not entitled to social welfare payments?

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Lone Stone

I think it would be a good thing but it would have to be everyone on the dole it wouldnt work if it only applied a few. It would be goood if the work was community based like setting up youth center's or that kind of thing being on the dole should not mean you have to work a job that is perceived by meny as degrading and demoralising what good is that going to do anyone. People on the dole are having a hard enough time as it is.

They should also require people on the dole to attend a gym for a few hours a week like they do in some other countrys to keep them active.

But then again the state would be libel for any injuries or what ever so you know its most likely not going to happen.

-Trek-

Lone Stone wrote: »

I think it would be a good thing but it would have to be everyone on the dole it wouldnt work if it only applied a few. It would be goood if the work was community based like setting up youth center's or that kind of thing being on the dole should not mean you have to work a job that is perceived by meny as degrading and demoralising what good is that going to do anyone. People on the dole are having a hard enough time as it is.

They should also require people on the dole to attend a gym for a few hours a week like they do in some other countrys to keep them active.

But then again the state would be libel for any injuries or what ever so you know its most likely not going to happen.

LOL, and have mandatory weigh in on signing day?

Amhran Nua

baldbear wrote: »

Why wasn't this brought in 7 years ago when we had to get thousands of foreign workers to come over and do work in factories etc. when unemployment was at 4%.

Unemployment isn't really important at that level, its long term unemployment that you want to be looking at. Most of that 4% were temp workers between jobs, people leaving college and so on - perfectly healthy for a normal economy. Long term unemployment is what you need to be looking at, and it hovered at or below 1%, which includes people on disability allowance and so on.

baldbear wrote: »

Good scheme though, better late than never!

Here's hoping none of the "its their own fault" Victorian-era bravos on here ever fall on hard times.

Kidchameleon

Leeg17 wrote: »

Good idea IMO. 19.5 hours for €210 as proposed is €10.76 an hour. A part time job with above minimum wages.

I wonder how many people will be unable to do the work because they're too "busy"

It's also a nice way to keep people occupied, they may even find a new interest (ie gardening) and may want to pursue a career in it or start a new business.

Ha ha, 500,000 gardening businesses open...

Lone Stone

Trekmad wrote: »

LOL, and have mandatory weigh in on signing day?

Now that you mention it ! we could make a national tv show out of it and raise money for corrupt td's in clontarf to buy a 5th home

jimmyw

First off, there is still the old fashioned notion that all people on the dole are complete wasters, which is not true.While I accept that there are some,all dolers are pigeon holed.If the jobs situation was good, then yes cant have sympathy for them, but people have no choose but to go on the dole. I cant see much of a difference with this thing and the present CE scheme.I think its not the worse idea though.

Greyfox

I think it's an absolutely superb idea, I actually felt happy after watching the news for the first time in years!

Nozebleed

this scheme ain't going to work..there's simply not enough wall's to paint for all us loser's out in tallaght.

If this scheme does come about...im not going to participate. if SDCC want graffiti free walls in tallaght they can employ me to to do it...or one of the painting contractors who are out of work in the area..Same goes for the grand canal..if waterways ireland want people such as myself to clean it they can employ me to clean it. This sh*t should be done by the people employed by local authorities. not people looking for work.

a disgraceful attempt to introduce slave labour by our government.