The Playstation 3 has been "jailbroken" *MOD NOTE POST 220*

Inquitus

Varik wrote: »

Steam is cheaper than a shop most of the time and have frequent sales with ridiculous value, the only reason other like Sony and MS have the price the same or greater than shops is because they can't undercut them without pissing off the people who sell the consoles.

Steam is cheaper for old games, always more expensive than the cheapest shops for newly released games, mainly for the same reason you mention above.

gizmo

Inquitus wrote: »

I have nothing against Piracy though, all the development houses are now massive corporations, the same as BP and co. The days of small dev houses are long gone with games costing millions up front, and they screw every last penny out of us anyways. I buy my games on Steam due to the kids destroying DVDs issues, and I resent being charged a premium on a shop price for what is a digital copy with none of the associated costs of a shop sale.

Ah, what we have here is simply a lack of understanding then. Development houses are far from massive corporations unfortunately, what you are thinking of, in the context of your description anyway, are the small number of large publishers worldwide. These are the companies which fork out the huge development costs for the latest games, whether they are internal studios or third party studios. In either case if a game does not preform as well as expected for whatever reason, it is the developers who will get the axe, not upper management. These are the people who are affecting every time you download a game.

As for the cost of digital sales, it may seem odd that they are not cheaper however remember that whatever saving is made on cutting out the retailer, wholesaler and packaging, it is replaced with the fact that you can redownload the game over their service as many times as you'd like, automatically patch it whenever you need to and purchase it from the comfort of your own home. Those benefits to me, are completely worth it.

Inquitus

gizmo wrote: »

In either case if a game does not preform as well as expected for whatever reason, it is the developers who will get the axe, not upper management. These are the people who are affecting every time you download a game.

To coin a Donald Rumsfeld quote, Piracy is a "Known Known" and is factored into sales expectations on any platform. Devs will lose their jobs when they write a poor game which fails to meet expectations. Jailbreaking an iPhone is easy, but only 1 in 10 are jailbroken, PS3 piracy is going to be harder than iPhone piracy, at the end of the day its probably not going to be that material.

Varik

EnterNow wrote: »

Why would they want to brick it though? I reckon they'd much rather cripple some features, meaning you had to buy any future games used on the console. At least they'll still get 1st party rights/3rd party royalties etc.

I don't get it, how would crippling features make you need to buy new games. New games will probably be unable(for a while) to be played on modded consoles as there will be newer security for them.

there will be a few kinds of people that will use this

1: fully hombrew who don't care about psn or retail games.

2: gamers who have real games already and really do just want to back them up.

3: pirates who buy some games (online)

4: pirates who buy no games.

5: most of the above.


Starting off with 4 & 1, What do Sony care they won't be getting more money off the pirate/homebrewers so the chance to make them buy a new ps3 is good for them.
Number 3 and 2 have an investment on the ps3 and would probably buy a new one given that they must know the risks of modding, kinda the same way 360 users keep buying after rrod.

gizmo

Inquitus wrote: »

To coin a Donald Rumsfeld quote, Piracy is a "Known Known" and is factored into sales expectations on any platform. Devs will lose their jobs when they write a poor game which fails to meet expectations. Jailbreaking an iPhone is easy, but only 1 in 10 are jailbroken, PS3 piracy is going to be harder than iPhone piracy, at the end of the day its probably not going to be that material.

The supposition that it is factored into sales figures is unfortunately false. On a related note, with the introduction of piracy on the PS3 do you think these companies will be forecasting lower sales for their titles? Do you find this fair?

No, developers lose their jobs when the game doesn't sell. It could be an extremely well received game critically but if it doesn't sell, they're ****ed.

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

Myrddin

Varik wrote: »

I don't get it, how would crippling features make you need to buy new games.

Well for a start, if a "term of use violation" could be made stand up in court, a simple background patch to disable to consoles USB ports could be an option, as a consequence of the violation. Then it's a case of update to play the latest games, or don't (assuming future games have mandatory requirements). Your more likely to buy a new game, than a new console. Crippling will NOT happen.

I doubt any of the above will happen though, it's a hardware & account ban, like it or not kinda thing which I assume will be the route they go.

Myrddin

gizmo wrote: »

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

I tend to agree, it's WAY too easy. If a PSP port ever happens, it's the DS flash cart thing all over again.

Inquitus

gizmo wrote: »

No, developers lose their jobs when the game doesn't sell. It could be an extremely well received game critically but if it doesn't sell, they're ****ed.

Just because a game is critically well received doesn't mean it will sell well. Piracy's impact on game sales is not as high as one would think. It's likely no matter what, that PSN will not be in-scope for pirates, MW2 is what an 8 hour game without online play? It will be a massive disincentive to pirates

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

You need rooted Android phones to do it, when it's released on the iPhone it will take a jailbroken iPhone to do it etc. It requires some technical knowledge to complete, and to maintain is going to require lots of fecking about with CFW etc, its not going to be like an R4 is on a DS.

All you have to do to jailbreak an iPhone is go to a webpage and yet still only 1 in 10 have done it, stats tell us. This is far harder than that, and imo will see far less take-up, couple in the lack of online play and the loss of trophy whoring etc. and I don't think you'll see anything more than a couple of % of Playstations playing pirated games.

Out of interest does anyone have any stats on what % of Wii's are softmodded? I would put the PS3 exploit on a par with that difficulty wise in broad brush estimation.

Varik

gizmo wrote: »

The supposition that it is factored into sales figures is unfortunately false.

So hotels don't account for theft either , I'd better stop stealing towels then and you know.......TVs.

Myrddin

Inquitus wrote: »

It requires some technical knowledge to complete, and to maintain is going to require lots of fecking about with CFW etc, its not going to be like an R4 is on a DS.

For now yes, but I wouldn't expect that to remain the case if any of these clones see the light of day. Opening the box it arrives in will be the most technically challenging thing about it. Ok it won't be like the flash card scene, but it's definitely too easy to do and will have more people doing it than say, an xbox 360 jtag or a drive flash.

Inquitus

Varik wrote: »

So hotels don't account for theft either , I'd better stop stealing towels then and you know.......TVs.

If people on their high horses about Game Piracy can swear hand on heart they never dl TV Series, or Movies and stream them to their PS3's and Xbox's then I take my hat off to them, because pirating a game is exactly the same as downloading The Wire, SGU, BSG, The West Wing, Spartacus or w/e from the US airings or from DVD rips instead of buying it in a boxset yourself.

Inquitus

Varik wrote: »

So hotels don't account for theft either , I'd better stop stealing towels then and you know.......TVs.

Hotels will accrue for shrinkage each month, theft of towels would be part of their annual operating plan.

gizmo

Inquitus wrote: »

Just because a game is critically well received doesn't mean it will sell well.

That's not the point at all, you said the only reason they'd lose their jobs is if they made a bad game and I pointed out that wasn't true.

Inquitus wrote: »

Piracy's impact on game sales is not as high as one would think. It's likely no matter what, that PSN will not be in-scope for pirates, MW2 is what an 8 hour game without online play? It will be a massive disincentive to pirates

Incorrect, check out some of the figures here. Note that is from public torrent sites therefore it does not include either private sites or usenet.

Inquitus

gizmo wrote: »

Incorrect, check out some of the figures here. Note that is from public torrent sites therefore it does not include either private sites or usenet.

Given MW2 is about 8 hours long in single player mode, and all its best bits require online play, you would have to postulate that the vast majority of those who pirated it would never have bought it.

Deleted, we're discussing games

Varik

Inquitus wrote: »

Given MW2 is about 8 hours long in single player mode, and all its best bits require online play, you would have to postulate that the vast majority of those who pirated it would never have bought it.

Going by the figures released for black ops, 30-40% of legal owners of MW2 never went online.

F1ngers

I have deleted/edited off topic posts.
We're discussing the PS3.
There are other fora for TV/Films.

L'prof

Has anybody tried this then? Does it take up any hard drive space or is everything contained on the stick? It'd be fantastic to have a full library of codecs for video playback. For the moment though, I think I'll buy a wireless n router and see how well that works for streaming unsupported content as currently, it's far too laggy for the higher quality stuff!

Inquitus

L'prof wrote: »

Has anybody tried this then? Does it take up any hard drive space or is everything contained on the stick? It'd be fantastic to have a full library of codecs for video playback. For the moment though, I think I'll buy a wireless n router and see how well that works for streaming unsupported content as currently, it's far too laggy for the higher quality stuff!

You put the PS3 into "Dev" mode using the USB Jig / Phone / Calculator and that then opens up a new option under game called "Install Package File" you can then open and install / run any unsigned code you wish. To date the packages available are limited to an FTP Server, a Hello World Movie and ofc the Backup Manager which I won't link to.

madmoe

Inquitus wrote: »

You put the PS3 into "Dev" mode using the USB Jig / Phone / Calculator and that then opens up a new option under game called "Install Package File" you can then open and install / run any unsigned code you wish. To date the packages available are limited to an FTP Server, a Hello World Movie and ofc the Backup Manager which I won't link to.

Cheers for explaining that mate! All makes sense now.

Myrddin

madmoe wrote: »

Cheers for explaining that mate! All makes sense now.

I detailed it in the consloe modding forum, see here

madmoe

EnterNow wrote: »

I detailed it in the consloe modding forum, see here

Good man EnterNow, thanks for that!

M

Thrill

PlayStation 3 update targets hardware hacks


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11213618

eddhorse

Main features in system software update version 3.42

* A patch has been added to address security vulnerability in the system software.

eddhorse

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

OK guys, discussion of this topic is necessary, but please refrain from 'piracy' talk, like providing links or tips on how to play...ahem... 'backups'. I'm sure boards doesn't want to encourage this, and could ultimately get you and the site in trouble! Obviously big news, but talk about the topic as it develops as opposed to anything illegal!

MOD NOTE 220 for reference....:rolleyes:

Otacon

eddhorse wrote: »

MOD NOTE 220 for reference....:rolleyes:

WTF?

[Why the Face?]

Man, I love Modern Family!

eddhorse

Didn't really mean the face, just making easy note to it so people didn't have to browse back through

Daemos

Erm... okay then...

Helix

ok so the hack turns the ps3 into a debug, essentially, right? so what if the end users updated with the debug firmware, rather than retail? you cant exactly close off the ability to run unsigned code from a debug unit....

Varik

Helix wrote: »

ok so the hack turns the ps3 into a debug, essentially, right? so what if the end users updated with the debug firmware, rather than retail? you cant exactly close off the ability to run unsigned code from a debug unit....

They can if they give new units to those that need them and Sony may think if better to ship out new debug PS3 rather than allow the current debug software to be used for evil.

Myrddin

Helix wrote: »

ok so the hack turns the ps3 into a debug, essentially, right? so what if the end users updated with the debug firmware, rather than retail? you cant exactly close off the ability to run unsigned code from a debug unit....

I havn't actually seen that point rasied before, but my first impression is that debug firmware won't install on a retail unit. The exploit doesn't turn retail units into debug units, it simply unlocks certain functions hidden within the OS, normally reserved for debugs.

There's hardware identifiers too which will determine what console can install what firmware. It's a good point, and probably is possible in the future, but for now I really doubt debug firmware would install on a exploited console. For a start the FW update is performed on a re-boot, so the exploit probably wouldn't initialise properly. That and the HW identifiers wouldn't match.

Actually the exploit wouldn't initialise properly on further thought, as the JIG search can only be performed on a cold boot & in conjunction with the eject button. The FW update reboot is a soft start.