If Mohammed had sex with his 9 year old wife does that make him a pedophile?

The Highwayman

Times change as they say but a 53 year old man and a 9 year old girl can't be right in any era can it?

x PyRo

The Highwayman wrote: »

can't be right in any era can it?

It sure can.
I joke obviously!

starbelgrade

Yes / no / maybe *

* = delete as appropriate.

M5

Its right era

ldxo15wus6fpgm

inb4 mob of angry muslims demanding boards take this thread down.

OT: Definitely not right. You'd want her to at least be 11 ffs :rolleyes:

Rabies

it makes her one of the youngest gold diggers ever

Havermeyer

If he existed he'd be considered a pedo.

But given the fact he doesn't (in my opinion), then no. He's just a made up pedophile. Just like pedobear, who also can't be one because he's a cartoon.

I'd draw a diagram to show how it would be impossible for Mo' to be a pedophile, but I thought I'd pass. My Danish artist friend advised me not to, as he thought it would annoy some beardy muppet, who also enjoys intimacy with goats (allegedly), that lives in a cave many miles to the east of here.

FearDark

Isnt Saudi Arabia the place where they behead you for being a homosexual and chop your hand off for stealing?

Chop his díck off.

skelliser

nummnutts wrote: »

If he existed he'd be considered a pedo.

But given the fact he doesn't (in my opinion), then no. He's just a made up pedophile. Just like pedobear, who also can't be one because he's a cartoon.

Actually there is quite alot of evidence that suggests he did exist.

FearDark

Obligitory durka durka mohammed jihad.

d.anthony

FearDark wrote: »

Obligitory durka durka mohammed jihad.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.... Durka durka durka

scientific1982

nummnutts wrote: »

If he existed he'd be considered a pedo.

But given the fact he doesn't (in my opinion), then no. He's just a made up pedophile. Just like pedobear, who also can't be one because he's a cartoon.

I'd draw a diagram to show how it would be impossible for Mo' to be a pedophile, but I thought I'd pass. My Danish artist friend advised me not to, as he thought it would annoy some beardy muppet, who also enjoys intimacy with goats (allegedly), that lives in a cave many miles to the east of here.

Mohammed is actually a historical figure. He was also a pedo.

zuroph

maybe thats why we're not allowed draw pictures of him, in case the cops identify him.

Absurdum

good boxer but ffs 9????

old_aussie

Looks like all here(AH) are trying to force western values on islamic countries.
Beware that a jihad will be launched against all and sundry.

In islam it's seems likw it's the thing to do......

The sad case of Elham Assi, a 13-year old Yemeni girl who died from internal hemorrhaging after being raped by her 23-year-old husband, has certainly sparked conversation in Yemen over the longstanding practice of child marriage. But the conversations -- taking place everywhere from Sanaa kitchens to the parliament building -- aren't exactly what you'd expect.

Instead of addressing the question of children's rights in a country where a quarter of all girls are married before they're 15 and half before they're 18, some Yemenis are treating Elham Assi's death as a rallying point against the so-called imposition of a Western agenda. Instead of catalyzing protective legislation for children in Yemen, as the tragic 1911 Triangle Factory fire did for industrial laborers in the United States, her death may actually make it more likely that others will share her fate.



More...

In February 2009, parliament approved a bill to raise the marriage age to 18 years old, causing an immediate furor in the Islamist community, which denounced the legislation as un-Islamic. The September 2009 death of a 12-year-old-girl in childbirth once again drove home the importance of this issue. However, the bill has since languished while a parliamentary subcommittee decides whether or not it's in accordance with sharia law. The subcommittee's decision is scheduled for May.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/30/yemens_child_bride_backlash

Terry

old_aussie wrote: »

Looks like all here(AH) are trying to force western values on islamic countries.
Beware that a jihad will be launched against all and sundry.

In islam it's seems likw it's the thing to do......

The sad case of Elham Assi, a 13-year old Yemeni girl who died from internal hemorrhaging after being raped by her 23-year-old husband, has certainly sparked conversation in Yemen over the longstanding practice of child marriage. But the conversations -- taking place everywhere from Sanaa kitchens to the parliament building -- aren't exactly what you'd expect.

Instead of addressing the question of children's rights in a country where a quarter of all girls are married before they're 15 and half before they're 18, some Yemenis are treating Elham Assi's death as a rallying point against the so-called imposition of a Western agenda. Instead of catalyzing protective legislation for children in Yemen, as the tragic 1911 Triangle Factory fire did for industrial laborers in the United States, her death may actually make it more likely that others will share her fate.



More...

In February 2009, parliament approved a bill to raise the marriage age to 18 years old, causing an immediate furor in the Islamist community, which denounced the legislation as un-Islamic. The September 2009 death of a 12-year-old-girl in childbirth once again drove home the importance of this issue. However, the bill has since languished while a parliamentary subcommittee decides whether or not it's in accordance with sharia law. The subcommittee's decision is scheduled for May.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/30/yemens_child_bride_backlash

Wow. Legal paedophilia.

PirateShampoo

Terry wrote: »

Wow. Legal paedophilia.

Yes its the Holy Grail of Pedophilia.


Its the cup Mohamed gave his first Roofie from.

Strange Loop

The claim that she was 9 when the marriage was consumated came from a book written some 250 years after the fact, and all subsequent claims came from this.

Modern historians using a method of aging people according to other events that occured around the same time have determined she was 10 years older, aged 19, when she and Mohammed had sex.

So, the fact is there are no facts. Do you believe the guy 250 years after the marriage or do you believe the modern-day historians? (or will you take the agnostic position)

I suspect peoples personal feelings towards Muslims (or child brides) will help determine which 'fact' they choose to believe.

Terry

Strange Loop wrote: »

The claim that she was 9 when the marriage was consumated came from a book written some 250 years after the fact, and all subsequent claims came from this.

Modern historians using a method of aging people according to other events that occured around the same time have determined she was 10 years older, aged 19, when she and Mohammed had sex.

So, the fact is there are no facts. Do you believe the guy 250 years after the marriage or do you believe the modern-day historians? (or will you take the agnostic position)

I suspect peoples personal feelings towards Muslims will help determine which 'fact' they choose to believe.

Well if you're going to put it that way, I'd tend to believe that the Yemeni (that's the plural, right?) want to believe he was a paedo. I'm basing this on their reaction to proposed sensible laws.

Strange Loop

Terry wrote: »

Well if you're going to put it that way, I'd tend to believe that the Yemeni (that's the plural, right?) want to believe he was a paedo. I'm basing this on their reaction to proposed sensible laws.

It suits their cultural practices to do so, so yes, they seem to believe it.

Terry

Strange Loop wrote: »

It suits their cultural practices to do so, so yes, they seem to believe it.

Still doesn't make it right though.

Strange Loop

Terry wrote: »

Still doesn't make it right though.

I never suggested it did.

Wibbs

skelliser wrote: »

Actually there is quite alot of evidence that suggests he did exist.

scientific1982 wrote: »

Mohammed is actually a historical figure.

Funny enough not really. Though it seems its more accepted, almost a given that he was a real life figure than say Jesus or Moses, the actual evidence is pretty slim. The entire body of evidence comes from Muslim sources. There are no, zero, nada outside historical sources that reference him in his lifetime. You have to wait 100 years before that happens and in that a Greek describes him as a general. No mention of his religious mission at all. Now consider he was supposed to have dealt with the Greeks/Byzantines officially, yet none of their pretty extensive records mention him. They do mention an Arabic war alright, but that's about it. Even the Islamic sources that do exist are later. The earliest Islamic writings don't mention him. The coinage of the time don't mention him. The dome of the rock inscriptions which are the earliest Quranic inscriptions don't mention him. The Gospel origins are a little earlier in timeline and you often read that a fair few consider Jesus to be a non historical figure. The historicity of Mohammed is equally untrustworthy.

Strange Loop wrote: »

The claim that she was 9 when the marriage was consumated came from a book written some 250 years after the fact, and all subsequent claims came from this.

True, but even so that culture clearly saw no issue with the notion of their most revered figure marrying 9 year olds.

Modern historians using a method of aging people according to other events that occured around the same time have determined she was 10 years older, aged 19, when she and Mohammed had sex.

Islamic "historians" extrapolating from Islamic sources, as they're the only ones to go on. Again I look on it this way as this is all we can be sure of: The Muslim/Arabic culture 250 years after the events were supposed to have happened thought that 9 year olds marrying 50 odd year olds was acceptable.

So, the fact is there are no facts. Do you believe the guy 250 years after the marriage or do you believe the modern-day historians? (or will you take the agnostic position)

Well the modern types have their own agenda too of course.

R0ot

nummnutts wrote: »

If he existed he'd be considered a pedo.

But given the fact he doesn't (in my opinion), then no. He's just a made up pedophile. Just like pedobear, who also can't be one because he's a cartoon.

The greatest trick the Pedobear ever pulled (besides yore ma :pac: ) was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Strange Loop

Wibbs wrote: »

True, but even so that culture clearly saw no issue with the notion of their most revered figure marrying 9 year olds.

The Yemenis, you mean?

The Muslim/Arabic culture 250 years after the events were supposed to have happened thought that 9 year olds marrying 50 odd year olds was acceptable.

The OP asked a question about Mohammad only, which I answered as best I could.

Well the modern types have their own agenda too of course.

Then so too, perhaps, Bukhari, the guy who first claimed the girl was 9.

orourkeda

FearDark wrote: »

Obligitory durka durka mohammed jihad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G07szNm_5Jk

Wibbs

Strange Loop wrote: »

The Yemenis, you mean?

No I mean the culture that first wrote this down and subsequent cultures that implemented the practice. Hey in europe we were marrying off children too, so it wasnt just them.

The OP asked a question about Mohammad only, which I answered as best I could.

Oh yes I was just bringing more context into it.

Then so too, perhaps, Bukhari, the guy who first claimed the girl was 9.

Quite possibly, though the culture that recieves the info/instruction would take or leave it depending on their cultural attitudes. Bukhari would get short shrift today in the west(and among most Muslims), but clearly didnt at the time in the early Islamic culture.

Handsome Bob

You shouldn't be talking about Mohammed lads.

kjl

Terry wrote: »

Wow. Legal paedophilia.

No, pedophilia refers to preteen girls.

Stercus Accidit

kjl wrote: »

No, pedophilia refers to preteen girls.

Ages 9,11,12 aren't teenagers.

Hank_Jones

skelliser wrote: »

Actually there is quite alot of evidence that suggests he did exist.

+1. I've read a few books on the subject and the guy was quite real.

In the same sort of vain as Jesus really, except not as many magic tricks.

sligopark

Hank_Jones wrote: »

+1. I've read a few books on the subject and the guy was quite real.

In the same sort of vain as Jesus really, except not as many magic tricks.

nor are there records of Jesus shagging children, forcing women into subserviance or giving the ok for male rape

muslims what a f_cking bunch

mohammed the paedophile - sort of puts Islam into a different perspective for me

Strange Loop

Wibbs wrote: »

Bukhari would get short shrift today in the west(and among most Muslims)

As would his evidence that Mohammad was a paedophile in a modern-day Western court of law.

gu10

Its paedophile, not pedophile. with a distinct letter 'a' after the initial p

sligopark

gu10 wrote: »

Its paedophile, not pedophile. with a distinct letter 'a' after the initial p

whoever it is you are giving out to might be canadian

The Highwayman

Strange Loop wrote: »

The claim that she was 9 when the marriage was consumated came from a book written some 250 years after the fact, and all subsequent claims came from this.

Modern historians using a method of aging people according to other events that occured around the same time have determined she was 10 years older, aged 19, when she and Mohammed had sex.

So, the fact is there are no facts. Do you believe the guy 250 years after the marriage or do you believe the modern-day historians? (or will you take the agnostic position)

I suspect peoples personal feelings towards Muslims (or child brides) will help determine which 'fact' they choose to believe.

He must have been a magic man because he died when she was 18


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

jibblybitsy

what a bunch or fetards you cant have sex with a 9 year old!!! am i the only one who has spotted this super duper facto mackto detracto. like a track cosmo retro intro outro i listened to there. ok. thankwank

Nijmegen

The issue is not what Mohammad did, it's what the religion believes he did.

As we see in Yemen, they think marrying and having sex with 9 year olds is grand.

JuliusCaesar

Richard II of England was joined in marriage to young Isabel of France, who had been 7 years old when their engagement was announced the previous year in Paris. Not only was there no uproar; there was considerable happiness expressed over the assumed probability that this marriage would end the Hundred Years War then in one of its periodic states of truce between the two kingdoms. Peace was to be ensured by joining together this man and this little girl in marriage.

Source

Nijmegen

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Source

And nowadays we have Brits marrying 7 year olds?

Strange Loop

The Highwayman wrote: »

He must have been a magic man because he died when she was 18


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Evidence that Aisha was older than nine

Muqtedar Khan argues that there are different reports within the Islamic sources about the age of Aisha at the time of marriage,[7] Maulana Muhammad Ali makes a detailed historical argument that Aisha was betrothed at nine or ten, but was fifteen at marriage,[6] while Moiz Amjad agrees with Hafiz Niaz Ahmad and Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi and argues on the authenticity of hadith regarding Aisha's age and shows that it contradicts with other Islamic literature and puts her age at marriage as late as twenty.[3][4][5] Following arguments are given to support this conclusion.

URL="http://www.aimislam.com/w/index.php?title=Aisha%27s_age_at_marriage&action=edit§ion=8"][COLOR=#000000]edit[/COLOR][/URL Authenticity of hadith regarding Aisha's age

• Reports regarding Aisha's age were recorded during the Abbasid caliphate when Aisha's youth might be deliberately emphasized by scholars to reject Shi'a claims for the descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib.[20]
• Most of the narratives regarding Aisha's age are reported only by Hisham ibn Urwa reporting on the authority of his father. All the narratives of this event have been reported through narrators from Iraq, where Hisham ibn Urwa is reported to have shifted after living in Madinah for seventy-one years. It is reported in one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to Muhammad that Yaqub ibn Shaibah said, "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq.[21] Another book on the narrators of the traditions of Muhammad reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly.[22]
• Muhammad is attributed to say, "A woman must be consulted and get her permission to make the marriage valid".[23] According to another report, Aisha at the age of nine was rather more interested to play with toy-horses than to take up the responsible task of a wife.[24] The permission of an immature girl cannot be a valid authorization for marriage.
• Comparison of hadith of Aisha's age with hadith of Laylat al-Qadr, in which 1 was used for 21, 3 for 23, 5 for 25 and so on, suggest that maybe Aisha's reports were transmitted literally and 16 became 6 and 19 became 9, as it is a way of talking in Arabic language when base is already known.[4]

URL="http://www.aimislam.com/w/index.php?title=Aisha%27s_age_at_marriage&action=edit§ion=9"][COLOR=#000000]edit[/COLOR][/URL Evidences from Islamic literature

• According to hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE[25] and then in 625 CE in the Battle of Uhud.[26] As no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties,[27][28] Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.
• Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.[29]
• Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`im ibn `Uday's son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.[30][5](p.91)
• Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr's four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah,[31] the pre Islamic period, which is said to have ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE when Aisha started living with Muhammad.
• Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl".[32] The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah.[33] According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years then her age at the time of marriage would be 16 to 23.
• According to almost all the historians, Asma bint Abu Bakr, the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha.[34][35] Asma is reported to die in the 73 AH, when she was 100 years old.[36][37] Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of Migration to Medina (1 AH). If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at that time, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at the same time. Thus, Aisha - if she got married in 1 AH or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

...

biko

The Highwayman wrote: »

If Mohammed had sex with his 9 year old wife does that make him a pedophile?

It would if it happened under current legislation. Also Socrates, Plato and Aristotle would face some jail time because in those days older men often had young boy lovers. That's how they rolled like.

The Highwayman

Strange Loop wrote: »

...

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. "(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

Strange Loop

The Highwayman wrote: »

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. "(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

None of the Hadith's were written until well over 200 years after Mohamads death.

The other hadiths took their evidence from Bukhari's Hadith whose sole source for that claim was from a single source, one guy, who had the story passed down by mouth through his family.

That's all the evidence there is. The other hadith got it from there.

Cuddlesworth

Nijmegen wrote: »

The issue is not what Mohammad did, it's what the religion believes he did.

As we see in Yemen, they think marrying and having sex with 9 year olds is grand.

I would love to see evidence of another culture of that time who spoke out against the trafficking of young women/girls. We accept its wrong as a western society now, doesn't mean it was wrong then for the people living in those times.

Denerick

I can't find Mohammad anywhere in this picture...

The Highwayman

Strange Loop wrote: »

None of the Hadith's were written until well over 200 years after Mohamads death.

The other hadiths took their evidence from Bukhari's Hadith whose sole source for that claim was from a single source, one guy, who had the story passed down by mouth through his family.

That's all the evidence there is. The other hadith got it from there.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an

June 27, 2008
Age, or lack thereof, is no hindrance to marriage under Islam, according to Ahmad Al-Mu'bi, an officiant for marriages from Saudi Arabia who says sex at 9 is fine.

He confirmed, "The Prophet Muhammad is the model we follow. He took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was 6, but he had sex with her only when she was 9."
I think this man would be a better scholar of Islam than me and maybe you?

Strange Loop

The Highwayman wrote: »

The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an

June 27, 2008
Age, or lack thereof, is no hindrance to marriage under Islam, according to Ahmad Al-Mu'bi, an officiant for marriages from Saudi Arabia who says sex at 9 is fine.

He confirmed, "The Prophet Muhammad is the model we follow. He took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was 6, but he had sex with her only when she was 9."
I think this man would be a better scholar of Islam than me and maybe you?

You asked if he was a paedophile.

You've presented evidence for the prosecution. I've presented evidence for the defence.

I don't think evidence compiled 200 years after the fact, from a non-written source, would be admissible in a Western court, less so the word of a single imam/scholar from June 27, 2008.

Wibbs

Hank_Jones wrote: »

+1. I've read a few books on the subject and the guy was quite real.

In the same sort of vain as Jesus really, except not as many magic tricks.

I dunno how you read a few books on the subject and came to that conclusion. Actually TBH I do as too often his historicity is taken as read. Objectively it's anything but. There are no Non Muslim sources for him or his life. None at all. Even those sources are not until 130 years after the date given as his death. Around the time some external sources come to light. They're not that helpful in pinning down the reality of him as they either make no mention of a religious mission and refer to him as a general in a localised Arab war or get his message wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad#Sources_for_the_historical_Muhammad

The historical record of Jesus, while still weak in todays terms is far better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus It was written earlier and by people who knew him in life or knew people who did. External sources are thin enough in number but again far higher than with Muhammad.

Nijmegen wrote: »

The issue is not what Mohammad did, it's what the religion believes he did.

As we see in Yemen, they think marrying and having sex with 9 year olds is grand.

Exactly. The original hadith texts would not have survived if they considered it wrong for him to act like this. Clearly the guy who came up with this and more importantly his audience and the scribes felt that this was perfectly fine an act to associate with the Prophet. Its only in subsequent years where the scholars have started to look of an "out" to bring it into more enlightened times.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Source

Yep like I said we were at this in Europe(and elsewhere). The main difference being that none of the religious faith founders did the same. Thus it's a lot easier to call it a morally dodgy practice and change it. If Jesus had married a 9 year old we might have very different laws and attitudes still.

Wibbs

Strange Loop wrote: »

I don't think evidence compiled 200 years after the fact, from a non-written source, would be admissible in a Western court, less so the word of a single imam/scholar from June 27, 2008.

I would agree, though that also means that much of what Muslims(and other faiths) believe is equally inadmissable. It's all up for grabs. Like I said the historical Muhammad would also go by the wayside.

JuliusCaesar

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep like I said we were at this in Europe(and elsewhere). The main difference being that none of the religious faith founders did the same. Thus it's a lot easier to call it a morally dodgy practice and change it. If Jesus had married a 9 year old we might have very different laws and attitudes still.

Mary was about 14 or 15 and Joseph was about 30 years olders than her.

This age difference should not be taken as a norm for the faithful, but as a special situation. Joseph needed to be much older in order to have a man with much wisdom and experience to care for and protect the Christ-child and His Mother.

From Catholic Answers All religions will justify themselves, even against common sense, or modern sensibilities. (Yes, yes, I know the self-justifying delusions start with the existance of a god.)