Ireland equals DOG UNFRIENDLY country

Shatner

This thread is making my blood boil. I like animals (esp dogs) but am not a pet owner myself. I do think that people making out that this is a 'dog unfriendly country' are taking the p*** however.

Dog owners get away with murder in this country. I realise that the people on here probably poop and scoop but the vast majority don't.

Apart from the nuisance of getting dogdirt on your shoes etc., it is posing a very serious risk to people's health. A grandson of a neighbour of mine is very seriously ill in hospital from an infection he got while playing in the local park (from dog dirt). People who don't poop and scoop should be fined, the dog should be confiscated and put to sleep.
To the people who say 'oh my dog wouldn't hurt a fly and when he jumps up on people he's only playing' - that's fine for you, you know the dog. If I'm jogging in the park and an unleashed dog runs over to me barking and jumping up on me, I don't know whether he will bite me or not. Keep him on a leash. Again, people that don't should be fined, the animal impounded and put to sleep.

People will now accuse me of being cruel to animals. I'm not. But owners who cannot or will not take responsibility for their animal should have their beloved pet taken from them. It is the only way to teach people.

Bill2673

But as you'll soon find out, all of the dog owners here poop and scoop, all of the dog owners here keep their dogs under control, all of the dog owners here own well behaved animals who are great around kids. its those other irresponsible dog owners, a small minority, who are giving the rest of them a bad name.

Dog crap on the beach, thats the worst for me, with all the kids running around in their bare feet.

(To be fair, I did see a council chap driving down BullIsland beach a few weeks back to make sure all dogs were being kept on a leash).

Tootle

Shatner wrote: »

This thread is making my blood boil. I like animals (esp dogs) but am not a pet owner myself. I do think that people making out that this is a 'dog unfriendly country' are taking the p*** however.

Dog owners get away with murder in this country. I realise that the people on here probably poop and scoop but the vast majority don't.

Apart from the nuisance of getting dogdirt on your shoes etc., it is posing a very serious risk to people's health. A grandson of a neighbour of mine is very seriously ill in hospital from an infection he got while playing in the local park (from dog dirt). People who don't poop and scoop should be fined, the dog should be confiscated and put to sleep.
To the people who say 'oh my dog wouldn't hurt a fly and when he jumps up on people he's only playing' - that's fine for you, you know the dog. If I'm jogging in the park and an unleashed dog runs over to me barking and jumping up on me, I don't know whether he will bite me or not. Keep him on a leash. Again, people that don't should be fined, the animal impounded and put to sleep.

People will now accuse me of being cruel to animals. I'm not. But owners who cannot or will not take responsibility for their animal should have their beloved pet taken from them. It is the only way to teach people.

I was in agreement with you until the last bit. Surely the owner should be the one put down?

Also maybe most dog owners on here are responsible. If we are bothering to spend time on animal welfare forums etc, surely that indicates we are putting the time in to educate ourselves on responsible dog ownership.
Anway you've just nicely demonstrated how dog unfriendly Ireland can be.

Jelly2

Putting a dog to sleep for such things is a bit extreme! But uncollected dog pooh is a right pain, there's no doubt. And lots of dog owners do not collect and bin it. I wonder would they if bins were positioned in places popular for exercising dogs? Many probably still wouldn't bother. Just as many people don't bother putting other forms of litter in the bin even when they walk near to them. The evidence at a festival over the weekend was damning...bins dotted around the gig field, only half full, but litter everywhere...

Bill2673

Tootle wrote: »

Anway you've just nicely demonstrated how dog unfriendly Ireland can be.

Goes to show that people just see what they want to see......

Welfare of Children

vs

Welfare of Dogs

Not a hard choice in my opinion.

Bill2673

Jelly2 wrote: »

Putting a dog to sleep for such things is a bit extreme! But uncollected dog pooh is a right pain, there's no doubt. And lots of dog owners do not collect and bin it. I wonder would they if bins were positioned in places popular for exercising dogs? Many probably still wouldn't bother. Just as many people don't bother putting other forms of litter in the bin even when they walk near to them. The evidence at a festival over the weekend was damning...bins dotted around the gig field, only half full, but litter everywhere...

One thing that confounds me about dog litter: I see piles of it around. There are signs up all over the estate, and they are surrounded by dog crap. There is a corner near our house, I call it crap corner, you have to step off the path to avoid the dog crap. But.... I rarely rarely see a dog owner allowing their dog to poo and not collect it. Its a bit odd. I reckon the worst offenders for this are elderly people. And I notice that elderly people in my area often walk their dogs very early or very late (bring it out for its poo before it goes to bed). So thats my best guess as to who the offenders are. But I guess for a 75 year old, telling them to pick up dog crap is laughable and ridiculous. Am I ageist? Am i wrong?

Shatner

Bill2673 wrote: »

Goes to show that people just see what they want to see......

Welfare of Children

vs

Welfare of Dogs

Not a hard choice in my opinion.

I agree. A child is very ill in hospital and I'm accused of being dog unfriendly for proposing that dogs that are not managed responsibly should be confiscated and put down.

I love dogs. Dogs should be under the charge of responsible people (and I'm sure the people posting on here are responsible). If a dog puts a human life in danger, the dog should be put down.

Bill2673

Shatner wrote: »

I agree. A child is very ill in hospital and I'm accused of being dog unfriendly for proposing that dogs that are not managed responsibly should be confiscated and put down.

I love dogs. Dogs should be under the charge of responsible people (and I'm sure the people posting on here are responsible). If a dog puts a human life in danger, the dog should be put down.

An additional point: is the inconsistency of dog welfare within wider animal welfare and rights.

Who cares if chickens spend their lives living in a area the size of a large matchbox..*....but if my poor doggy isn't allowed into a restaurant, oh what an awful country....

* and by this, i mean do you eat non-organic or free-range chicken.

Tootle

Shatner wrote: »

I agree. A child is very ill in hospital and I'm accused of being dog unfriendly for proposing that dogs that are not managed responsibly should be confiscated and put down.

I love dogs. Dogs should be under the charge of responsible people (and I'm sure the people posting on here are responsible). If a dog puts a human life in danger, the dog should be put down.

Unfortunately that is not what was said. It was said that all dogs who are off a leash should be confiscated and be put down. That is what I am referring to. With regards to dog poo and the health hazzards to children. I am in full agreement. However the law must be inforced for it to work. Have any of you actually done anything proactive to address this problem in your locality rather than making some sweeping statement that all dogs should die?
I am a dog owner, a runner, a member of the public. I have contacted my local authority, local politicians and national politicians on the subject of...yes dog poo! I've been looking for solutions to the problem. The biggest obsticle is enforcement. So why not be a little more proactive with some sensible suggestions.

ISDW

Bill2673 wrote: »

Goes to show that people just see what they want to see......

Welfare of Children

vs

Welfare of Dogs

Not a hard choice in my opinion.

Why do you think that the two are mutually exclusive? When I see what people do to children, unfortunately I'm not surprised by what they do to animals.

There are children near me who regularly drive cars around the roads, the youngest I've seen was 9 (I know this because he goes to my son's school). If he knocked somebody down, what would happen? He obviously isn't insured, he'd probably be killed, as the seat belt doesn't fit him properly behind the wheel. Why are his parents allowing them to do this? Its a rural area, everyone is related to everyone else, so nobody does anything. I rang the Gards about an 11 year old that drove past me and my son, but then I still saw him out driving again. Just the same as why do dog owners not control their dogs? I don't blame the child, just as I don't blame the dogs.

There are laws about all sorts of things regarding dogs, but they are not enforced, why not? I don't think there is any need for further laws, just that the ones we do have are enforced. Most of the dog poo that you see around the place is probably from people that just let their dogs out to wander - an offence, yet what happens about it? Nothing. Unless a warden picks the dog up, puts it in the pound, and it gets pts. What does the owner do? Go out and get another dog.

andreac

So an innocent dog doing what a dog should do, should get pts because its irresponsible owner is not doing the responsible thing?

Catch yourself on, you cant just go around taking peoples dogs off them and getting the put to sleep just because the owner doesnt pick up the poo or lets it run around a park, that is the most ridiculous thing ive hear.

Why should an innocent dog suffer because of its stupid owner?

Bill2673

ISDW wrote: »

Why do you think that the two are mutually exclusive? When I see what people do to children, unfortunately I'm not surprised by what they do to animals.

There are children near me who regularly drive cars around the roads, the youngest I've seen was 9 (I know this because he goes to my son's school). If he knocked somebody down, what would happen? He obviously isn't insured, he'd probably be killed, as the seat belt doesn't fit him properly behind the wheel. Why are his parents allowing them to do this? Its a rural area, everyone is related to everyone else, so nobody does anything. I rang the Gards about an 11 year old that drove past me and my son, but then I still saw him out driving again. Just the same as why do dog owners not control their dogs? I don't blame the child, just as I don't blame the dogs.

There are laws about all sorts of things regarding dogs, but they are not enforced, why not? I don't think there is any need for further laws, just that the ones we do have are enforced. Most of the dog poo that you see around the place is probably from people that just let their dogs out to wander - an offence, yet what happens about it? Nothing. Unless a warden picks the dog up, puts it in the pound, and it gets pts. What does the owner do? Go out and get another dog.

I agree with you completely. I have two young kids, and when I look about the things I worry about for them if and when they are out on the street, number one by a long shot is traffic, and in particular young males driving too fast. Number two or number three would be dog litter on the street (could a two year old pick it up and eat it?). They are not mutually exclusive.

And I agree with you that there is damn all can be done about it....in response to another post, I did bring the subject of dog poo up at a local residents meeting, but was moved on quickly from the topic. Most of the evenings debate focussed on anti-social behaviour, i.e. teenagers hanging around and playing football on the street, which as it happens I see as being relatively harmless.

When i say damn all can be done about it
- It will never be an election issue
- the laws are already there
- the laws will never be enforced
- so its down to a change in culture.....which takes decades....

Tootle

Bill2673 wrote: »

I another post, I did bring the subject of dog poo up at a local residents meeting, but was moved on quickly from the topic. Most of the evenings debate focussed on anti-social behaviour, i.e. teenagers hanging around and playing football on the street, which as it happens I see as being relatively harmless.

When i say damn all can be done about it
- It will never be an election issue
- the laws are already there
- the laws will never be enforced
- so its down to a change in culture.....which takes decades....

That's great you are being proactive but just as a suggestion maybe next residents meeting try to organize a local vet or Doctor come in to talk to the residents about the toxic effects of dog poo on children and how it can lead to blindness. I'm sure they would then realize it deserves to be higher up the pecking order than antisocial behavior. If we all give up and say nothing can be done about it, then nothing will be done about it. Also with regards to it not being an election issue; ever heard of Harvey Milk? First gay Mayor of San Francisco. What was one of his first policies to get the electorate on his side?....yep the elimination of dog poo!
Realize I've gone way off topic but it's all about making Ireland more dog friendly and harmonious!

Bill2673

Tootle wrote: »

That's great you are being proactive but just as a suggestion maybe next residents meeting try to organize a local vet or Doctor come in to talk to the residents about the toxic effects of dog poo on children and how it can lead to blindness. I'm sure they would then realize it deserves to be higher up the pecking order than antisocial behavior. If we all give up and say nothing can be done about it, then nothing will be done about it. Also with regards to it not being an election issue; ever heard of Harvey Milk? First gay Mayor of San Francisco. What was one of his first policies to get the electorate on his side?....yep the elimination of dog poo!
Realize I've gone way off topic but it's all about making Ireland more dog friendly and harmonious!

No not off topic......as I think to get harmony between dog owners and non dog owners, you have to get dog owners and non-dog owners thinking the same way.

morganafay

Bill2673 wrote: »

One thing that confounds me about dog litter: I see piles of it around. There are signs up all over the estate, and they are surrounded by dog crap. There is a corner near our house, I call it crap corner, you have to step off the path to avoid the dog crap. But.... I rarely rarely see a dog owner allowing their dog to poo and not collect it. Its a bit odd. I reckon the worst offenders for this are elderly people. And I notice that elderly people in my area often walk their dogs very early or very late (bring it out for its poo before it goes to bed). So thats my best guess as to who the offenders are. But I guess for a 75 year old, telling them to pick up dog crap is laughable and ridiculous. Am I ageist? Am i wrong?

A lot of old people might not be able to pick up dog poo. But they can still walk, and a dog is great company for them, so I think they should still be allowed to have a dog obviously, and I wouldn't expect them to pick up the poo if they might hurt themselves or fall because of it.

And in the countryside/small towns it would probably seem crazy to an old person to pick up dog poo.

morganafay

Shatner wrote: »

This thread is making my blood boil. I like animals (esp dogs) but am not a pet owner myself. I do think that people making out that this is a 'dog unfriendly country' are taking the p*** however.

Dog owners get away with murder in this country. I realise that the people on here probably poop and scoop but the vast majority don't.

Apart from the nuisance of getting dogdirt on your shoes etc., it is posing a very serious risk to people's health. A grandson of a neighbour of mine is very seriously ill in hospital from an infection he got while playing in the local park (from dog dirt). People who don't poop and scoop should be fined, the dog should be confiscated and put to sleep.
To the people who say 'oh my dog wouldn't hurt a fly and when he jumps up on people he's only playing' - that's fine for you, you know the dog. If I'm jogging in the park and an unleashed dog runs over to me barking and jumping up on me, I don't know whether he will bite me or not. Keep him on a leash. Again, people that don't should be fined, the animal impounded and put to sleep.

People will now accuse me of being cruel to animals. I'm not. But owners who cannot or will not take responsibility for their animal should have their beloved pet taken from them. It is the only way to teach people.

I think that's really sad that the child is sick, but it's not the dog's fault. It's the owner's fault. Also, unfortunately, people just have to watch their kids very closely in parks/gardens etc. because some people will leave dog poo around, but the kids could also get sick from other things like bird poo, or could cut themselves on broken glass, etc. If kids are young enough to go near dog poo, then they especially need to be watched.

Suggesting to get the dogs put down is ridiculous.

ISDW

morganafay wrote: »

A lot of old people might not be able to pick up dog poo. But they can still walk, and a dog is great company for them, so I think they should still be allowed to have a dog obviously, and I wouldn't expect them to pick up the poo if they might hurt themselves or fall because of it.

And in the countryside/small towns it would probably seem crazy to an old person to pick up dog poo.

But that is the problem, why would it seem crazy? You're right, it would, but why? Why is being responsible seen as crazy?

We need a sea change in the way people think about dog ownership, it should be a privilege to own a dog, not a right.

Shatner

andreac wrote: »

So an innocent dog doing what a dog should do, should get pts because its irresponsible owner is not doing the responsible thing?

Catch yourself on, you cant just go around taking peoples dogs off them and getting the put to sleep just because the owner doesnt pick up the poo or lets it run around a park, that is the most ridiculous thing ive hear.

Why should an innocent dog suffer because of its stupid owner?

Why is it ridiculous? People who cannot take care of a dog should not be allowed to have one (the dog doesn't necessarily have to be pts but I don't know if there are enough people to take care of all these dogs).

The licence for a dog should be as much if not more than for a TV - it's a living thing. Owners of unlicenced dogs should be fined €5000. That will stop the irresponsible owners. Plus it be better for dog welfare.

Some people care more about dogs than they do about other people. That's sad in my opinion.

adser53

I certainly couldn't afford 4 dog licences if it cos as much as tv licence. all that would do would lead to more dogs being abandoned. put the fee up to, say, 50 quid but have a huge reduction for owners who obtain something like the canine good citizen award. that'll encourage people who want dogs to have well behaved ones while at the same time discouraging the half arsed owners that are the problem in the first place

kylith

I do think that something like a canine good citizen award should have benefits when it comes to things like letting your dog off lead, or a reduction in the cost of a dog licence.

However, I do think that training needs to be much more accessible. I live in Dublin city and I can't drive. I would love to take my dogs to obedience and agility classes but there's nothing within walking distance. I can't take them in a taxi (they won't take them and I couldn't afford it), and I can't depend on being able to take them on the bus.

ISDW

kylith wrote: »

I do think that something like a canine good citizen award should have benefits when it comes to things like letting your dog off lead, or a reduction in the cost of a dog licence.

However, I do think that training needs to be much more accessible. I live in Dublin city and I can't drive. I would love to take my dogs to obedience and agility classes but there's nothing within walking distance. I can't take them in a taxi (they won't take them and I couldn't afford it), and I can't depend on being able to take them on the bus.

Which brings us back nicely to the title of the thread about Ireland being a dog unfriendly country:D If you try to be responsible, it would appear that barriers will be put in your way.

kylith

ISDW wrote: »

Which brings us back nicely to the title of the thread about Ireland being a dog unfriendly country:D If you try to be responsible, it would appear that barriers will be put in your way.

Yep. I clean up after them, only let them off lead in a safe area if there's no people or dogs around, don't let them wander the streets etc, and still I can't do anything.

I think that it would be great that if you get a canine good citizen award it came with a cert that you could show to be allowed on public transport, but I still wouldn't be able to get one because of the reasons above.

To be honest, I have had them in a taxi before taking them to the train station (where I have been told in the past that they have to travel in the guard's van, and since there are no more guard's vans tough, I can't travel) but it depends on a particular dog loving driver being on duty.

ruru

woodies diy does not mind you bringing dogs in, i have 2 small terriers with excellent manners and temperment, but it always amazes me the amount of parents that allow thier children to come over and rub them pull thier tails etc, i always tell children to ask owners before touching dogs, self catering in Ireland is not great for dogs I have lost count of the amount of people letting holiday homes will say they will accomodate one dog! Hello! I have 2! bring one and leave other at home! I think its unruly dogs and couldnt care less owners that ruins it for everybody!

morganafay

ISDW wrote: »

But that is the problem, why would it seem crazy? You're right, it would, but why? Why is being responsible seen as crazy?

We need a sea change in the way people think about dog ownership, it should be a privilege to own a dog, not a right.

Because older people in the countryside wouldn't mind a bit of poo, well mightn't. They'd probably be used to it, lots of them being farmers or having had dogs.

But it's different these days . . . though I've never seen anyone in my town pick up dog poo, I wish everyone would.

Tootle

morganafay wrote: »

Because older people in the countryside wouldn't mind a bit of poo, well mightn't. They'd probably be used to it, lots of them being farmers or having had dogs.

But it's different these days . . . though I've never seen anyone in my town pick up dog poo, I wish everyone would.

And this comes back to the education point again. It's not whether they mind it or not a) it's an offense (like littering...infect that is the offense it is under) and b) it's not like cow poo. It is dangerous to children. Toxocariasis larvae can, if ingested by small children playing near dog poo, travel to the brain and eyes causing partial blindness.
I'm sure in the old days lots of things were acceptable like drink driving, smoking in confined spaces around kids. Dog poo should be cleaned up, it's simple.

andreac

Shatner wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous? People who cannot take care of a dog should not be allowed to have one (the dog doesn't necessarily have to be pts but I don't know if there are enough people to take care of all these dogs).

The licence for a dog should be as much if not more than for a TV - it's a living thing. Owners of unlicenced dogs should be fined €5000. That will stop the irresponsible owners. Plus it be better for dog welfare.

Some people care more about dogs than they do about other people. That's sad in my opinion.

Its ridiculous because you cant just go around killing dogs because its doing something that its supposed to do.:rolleyes:
All animals poo, but putting them to sleep because of it is the silliest reason ive ever heard for having a dog pts.
Its up to the owner to look after it properly. So why should an innocent dog be pts because it pooped and its owner didnt pick it up?
So yes, that idea is ridiculous.

Shatner

andreac wrote: »

Its ridiculous because you cant just go around killing dogs because its doing something that its supposed to do.:rolleyes:
All animals poo, but putting them to sleep because of it is the silliest reason ive ever heard for having a dog pts.
Its up to the owner to look after it properly. So why should an innocent dog be pts because it pooped and its owner didnt pick it up?
So yes, that idea is ridiculous.

Yes, dogs poo naturally. There would not be as many dogs pooping in urban areas if they were not being 'kept' by an owner. By stopping owners who are lazy and irresponsible, by taking their dogs away, and by refusing them permission to keep animals, you would lower the number of dogs in urban areas, thus lowering the poop. And if all that was left were dogs kept by responsible owners, it would be better for everyone.

I realise you love dogs. Dogs (like children) are not a right or an entitlement, they are something that should be earned.

Cherry Blossom

Shatner wrote: »

Yes, dogs poo naturally. There would not be as many dogs pooping in urban areas if they were not being 'kept' by an owner. By stopping owners who are lazy and irresponsible, by taking their dogs away, and by refusing them permission to keep animals, you would lower the number of dogs in urban areas, thus lowering the poop. And if all that was left were dogs kept by responsible owners, it would be better for everyone.

I realise you love dogs. Dogs (like children) are not a right or an entitlement, they are something that should be earned.

I wonder how long it would take for children to be put into care if their parents let them run around in public places pooing everywhere and not bothering to clean it up

Cherry Blossom

Bill2673 wrote: »

Maybe what is needed therefore, in order to get a licence, is that all pet dogs must be formally trained? A bit like the drivers licence.

This would give non-dog owners more comfort; and would cut out a lot of owners for whom a dog is for Christmas not for life, and such like.

Personally I would abolish the whole dog licence system and introduce a dog-owner licensing system if I had any authority over such things . . . which I don't! The amount of people out there who just decide they want a dog one day and get one the next with no inkling what they're doing is a complete joke. How many threads in this forum have started with . . . I got a puppy yesterday what do I need to buy for it/I'm just feeding it left overs/ why is it wrecking my house/ it won't shut up so I've locked it in the garden shed and my all time favourite . . . I've had this dog for 10 months and it still won't use the litter tray so I'm thinking about giving it away:rolleyes:

<ETA> These are just the ones that actually come here looking for help, how many are there that are just completely making it all up as they go along!

Corsendonk

adser53 wrote: »

i was in bruges last year and I couldn't get over how dog friendly it was. Everyone had a dog and they could go in and out of shops as they pleased. Like the post above, saw a few large dogs in a fancy shop. All the pubs and cafes etc had bowls of water and such left out. Every dog I saw was really calm, well socialised and happy. AND i didn't see a single piece of crap on the footpaths or grass areas. It looked like heaven for dog owners

In Belgium if you slipped on dog poo or pee its your fault because you weren't looking and they would laugh if you threated to sue. In Ireland its always someone elses fault thats why shops dont like dogs unless guidedogs. I am afraid its the Irish obsession with blaming someone and seeking compensation.