New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

xper

nowecant wrote: »

AFAIK you are correct and the rest of the campus has not got any funding right now. At least the first 10,000 students will have a vast improvement in facilities and services even if it takes a while for the rest to arrive. DIT will finally be getting a home which is worthwhile investing in rather than maintaining and half investing in unsuitable distributed locations.

Patience is indeed advised. It took 40 odd years to shift all of UCD's academic facilities out from the city centre to Belfield.

nowecant

Nice video on the move to the new campus

nowecant

This is the first new DIT building which is due to be open in 2015. the sucessfull contractor BAM have just released an animation of its construction.

"The Greenway Hub will create specialist research facilities for the Environmental Sciences Health Institute (ESHI) and FOCUS in addition to providing incubation spaces for start-up companies. A range of meeting places will be available including one-to-one spaces as well as larger 6-8 people meeting rooms and a number of breakout spaces for informal meetings. All rooms will have Wi-Fi as standard." http://ggda.ie/dit-greenway-hub/

nowecant

Residents complain about DIT campus at Grangegorman

Residents around Grangegorman, Dublin, have accused a State development agency of breaching planning permission for the new DIT campus, just a month ahead of the arrival of its first students.

Some 1,000 of the DIT’s 20,000 students are due to move to the new consolidated campus on the site of the former St Brendan’s hospital in the northwest inner city in September.

The planning scheme for the development, approved by An Bord Pleanála two years ago, required entrances to be opened at the eastern and western boundaries of the site to reduce “excessive pressure” on the local road network.

“The opening up of these accesses prior to the occupation of the facilities by the DIT students is a prerequisite of the planning scheme,” the board stated.
However, the Grangegorman Development Agency says these gates will not now be open ahead of the arrival of the students, who will enter the campus from the North Circular Road or Grangegorman Lower.

The Grangegorman Residents Alliance, an umbrella group of local residents associations, said the failure to open the two entrances would result in traffic gridlock.

“The area already has a serious traffic problem with long tailbacks on the North Circular Road and Rathdown Road leading on to Grangegorman Lower, and now they are going to try to bring 1,000 more people through that bottleneck,” alliance chairman Pirooz Daneshmandi said.

Complaint lodged

The alliance has lodged a complaint with the council and is asking that it not permit the DIT to move students on site if the entrances are not open.
“This is an issue of complying with planning permission. Is nobody in this country going to abide by the law? We are just asking people to do their job and enforce the decision made by An Bord Pleanála”.

If the students did arrive ahead of the opening of the entrances, the alliance would consider legal action or a possible blockade of the campus, Mr Daneshmandi said.

The council is investigating the complaint, according to executive manager of the planning department Jim Keogan.

The east and west entrances were outside the area governed by the planning scheme and land ownership issues had arisen in relation to both gates, he said.
The eastern entrance is the Broadstone Gate which was to provide the main vehicular, pedestrian and cyclist access entrance for the campus as well as a stop for the new Luas Cross City line.

The plans involved the demolition of a small number of buildings, including the Maxol garage on Constitution Hill. However when Maxol last year withdrew its consent for the demolition, the council had to redraw the plans, working the new entrance plaza around the garage.

Plans approved

The plans were recently approved by the councillors, but there has not been sufficient time to build the entrance ahead of the arrival of the students.
The western entrance on to Prussia Street has also presented a problem in that some of the lands needed are in private ownership and an agreement has not been reached on their sale.

Mr Keogan said there was currently no issue of non-compliance with the board’s decision as there were no students on site. “We are looking into the complaint and we will evaluate the situation on September 1st. We will not ignore [the planning scheme] but this is a national project and there has to be a degree of reasonableness applied.”

A spokesman for the development agency said it was in compliance with all permissions granted to it by the council.

So the council have approved the new plans for the Maxol garage and Broadstone gate? would it not be better to sort the issue and find Maxol a new site and/or CPO their site?

Also does anyone know where exactly the western entrance onto Prussia Street is meant to be?

monument

nowecant wrote: »

Also does anyone know where exactly the western entrance onto Prussia Street is meant to be?

Somewhere near or down the hill from Tesco, but nothing has been confirmed, which is a problem given that it was a planning condition that westren and eastern access would be opened before there's students on campus.

TheBandicoot

It'll be horrible if they are really building an entrance plaza around an active garage. What a bodge.

Pete_Cavan

TheBandicoot wrote: »

It'll be horrible if they are really building an entrance plaza around an active garage. What a bodge.

It would be a disgrace and would undermine both the Grangegorman project and Luas Cross City. It never should have come to this, DCC should have given Maxol the site on Oscar Traynor Road regardless of what parents at a school half a mile away thought, now they should be CPOing.

The thing I dont understand about this is the Broadstone entrance doesnt matter at this stage. There is nothing but wasteland between Broadstone and the buildings which will be occupied this year as can be seen here. Everybody will be accessing these buildings from Grangegorman Road not Constitution Hill. Surely the Broadstone Gate doesnt come into use until the Luas is constructed?

monument

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The thing I dont understand about this is the Broadstone entrance doesnt matter at this stage. There is nothing but wasteland between Broadstone and the buildings which will be occupied this year as can be seen here. Everybody will be accessing these buildings from Grangegorman Road not Constitution Hill. Surely the Broadstone Gate doesnt come into use until the Luas is constructed?

It's quite clear that it was a planning condition so it should be happening.

We're not talking about fully finished access route, but at least temporary access.

East-west access routes would give more people far easier and more direct across when walking, cycling and to access buses. Without such access, driving will seem far more attractive.

Permeability is one of the most undervalued things in Irish planning. I was recently in Utrecht where they are reconstructing their large train station -- it's a massive project. Part of the project is to keep walking and cycling routes open at all times, even where that means building temporary paths which are moved a few times.

markpb

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It would be a disgrace and would undermine both the Grangegorman project and Luas Cross City. It never should have come to this, DCC should have given Maxol the site on Oscar Traynor Road regardless of what parents at a school half a mile away thought, now they should be CPOing.

+1

I used to live there, I don't see the problem at all.

L1011

monument wrote: »

It's quite clear that it was a planning condition so it should be happening.

Based on my experiences with Kildare CC, enforcing conditions seems to be next to non-existent as a priority.

monument wrote: »

Permeability is one of the most undervalued things in Irish planning. I was recently in Utrecht where they are reconstructing their large train station -- it's a massive project. Part of the project is to keep walking and cycling routes open at all times, even where that means building temporary paths which are moved a few times.

That project is taking years upon years longer than expected - from memory of the huge signs up in 2008, the stage it was at in February 2014 was somewhat similar to where the signs said "Summer 2010" should be. Although that's not the fault of ensuring routes are left open...

That station and more importantly the surrounding shopping centre (from which it is finally being detached) are left open all night to ensure there's reduced division of the city also, something we lose in Dublin with shopping centres etc being locked up at night - Royal Hibernian Way comes to mind. Needs security to prevent rough sleeping and antisocial behaviour though.

Pete_Cavan

monument wrote: »

It's quite clear that it was a planning condition so it should be happening.

We're not talking about fully finished access route, but at least temporary access.

East-west access routes would give more people far easier and more direct across when walking, cycling and to access buses. Without such access, driving will seem far more attractive.

Permeability is one of the most undervalued things in Irish planning. I was recently in Utrecht where they are reconstructing their large train station -- it's a massive project. Part of the project is to keep walking and cycling routes open at all times, even where that means building temporary paths which are moved a few times.

Fine but what I am saying is that there is a couple of hundred metres of bus parking and wasteland between Broadstone and any of the buildings to be used, the Maxol garage doesnt affect this. People are more likely to be put off using that as an entrance by the bus parking and the wasteland than it being beside a petrol station. People will be making there way to Grangegorman Road to access the buildings which will be in use. Nobody is going to go to Constitution Hill to tramp across a bus park and wasteland to get to college. Building a shiny new plaza/entrance at Broadstone isnt going to affect peoples mode of transport or the traffic in the are a given said entrance is so far removed from the site.

Now, if they had a beautiful walking and cycling path from Broadstone to the buildings to be used, the Broadstone plaza, or lack of, would be an issue. The fact is there is no link between Broadstone and the site anyway so people simply wont be using Broadstone as an entrance. It is cart before the horse stuff to build the entrance before the actual link.

cgcsb

afaik the Prussia st gate was originally to be through the autocentre at the end of saint Joseph's road, but at this stage it's more likely that an entrance might be built by knocking down the wall at the end of Fingal place.

Carawaystick

Wasn't the building on the corner across the road built as student accommodation?
It was mentioned as getting the student accom tax relief when it was being built anyway.
This would be one reason to provide access here

nowecant

It is DIT student accommodation.

Pete_Cavan

nowecant wrote: »

It is DIT student accommodation.

Broadstone Hall, the building at the corner of Phibsboro Road, Constitution Hill and Dominic Street? Its private student accommodation aimed at DIT students but is not associated with DIT.

http://www.broadstoneaccommodation.com/index.htm

gauchesnell

just wondering if anyone is visiting the new campus when it opens...except for staff and students of course

MJohnston

I'm wondering if it will be possible anytime soon for a member of the public to walk through the campus - I'm living near Blessington Street Basin and have friends (and favourite bars) in Stoneybatter, so a route through the campus would be very welcome considering the larger detours you currently have to make. The planned maps seem to suggest it will be possible, but not when.

gauchesnell

there was a site tour for locals on Thursday (sorry bit late now)

I am not sure about being able to walk through the campus yet due to Health and Safety Reasons but the campus is open now. Students are being asked to come on the 8th but staff are there and buildings are open. I know the main reception is at the grangegorman road lower entrance and the DIT reception is just at the entrance. I am not sure about the north circular road entrance yet.

I would check out the ggda website or if you wish call into the DIT reception desk in Grangegorman they should be able to help you out.

There are great pics on the DIT website and on the ggda website.

I have been there myself and it looks amazing

monument

Never got around to replying...

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Fine but what I am saying is that there is a couple of hundred metres of bus parking and wasteland between Broadstone and any of the buildings to be used, the Maxol garage doesnt affect this. People are more likely to be put off using that as an entrance by the bus parking and the wasteland than it being beside a petrol station.

What exactly are you trying to claim here?

That most people at peak times will detour around rather than look at hoardings / a building site / a bus garage?

If cycling / walking from the north city to Grangegorman and most people had the choice of the end bit of the trip being:

• the yellow route (440m) -- direct with no traffic and a crossing or two
• the blue route (1.37km/1.24km) -- indirect with a ton of traffic, and difficult and busy junctions

I know most would choose the direct route regardless of the building site.

Another example, walking from the closest Swords / Drumcondra corridor bus stops -- the orange route (1.93km) vs the green one (1.25km) -- to Grangegorman, and, due to stop locations, the reverse is shorter for the green route and slighly longer for the orange route:

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

People will be making there way to Grangegorman Road to access the buildings which will be in use. Nobody is going to go to Constitution Hill to tramp across a bus park and wasteland to get to college.

There's no such place as Grangegorman Road.

These people seem happy enough cycling via a waste land of a building site:

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Building a shiny new plaza/entrance at Broadstone isnt going to affect peoples mode of transport or the traffic in the are a given said entrance is so far removed from the site.

No, but building a half decent access route (temporary or not) would have a positive effect on cycling, walking and public transport options.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Now, if they had a beautiful walking and cycling path from Broadstone to the buildings to be used, the Broadstone plaza, or lack of, would be an issue. The fact is there is no link between Broadstone and the site anyway so people simply wont be using Broadstone as an entrance. It is cart before the horse stuff to build the entrance before the actual link.

If you care about cycling, walking and public transport access, it's general good planning to give these direct routes from day zero.

That's even if temporary routes have to be built and even moved a few times while the redevelopment is ongoing -- the Utrecht centra station area, as mentioned above, is a good example.

nowecant

Putting up the sign at the front gate

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/11/04/meanwhile-at-dit/#comments

ardmacha

You'd think she would put a helmet on the child.

nowecant

In case anyone does not know the GGDA Facebook page regularly updates with images of the development. This is the latest arial photo.



More at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grangegorman-Development-Agency/382314786412?fref=ts

monument

ardmacha wrote: »

You'd think she would put a helmet on the child.

Is that a joke?

ardmacha

Is that a joke?

No.

monument

ardmacha wrote: »

No.

Ha... Right, so...

Aard

Cycling helmet use is entirely irrelevant to a thread on DIT Grangegorman. There are many other threads on which such a matter can be discussed.

- Moderator.

nowecant

There is still no update on what they plan to do with the so called Broadstone Gate and the issue with the Maxol garage on Constitution Hill.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0404/606784-maxol-considers-legal-action-over-dublin-site/

This is due to start in early 2015 http://ggda.ie/broadstone-gate

TheBandicoot

Luas BXD construction begins next year as well, the plans for that indicate "Remove existing service station" in order to accommodate the Broadstone stop, so either the Luas route is going to need to be realigned or an agreement reached with Maxol.

hfallada

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Luas BXD construction begins next year as well, the plans for that indicate "Remove existing service station" in order to accommodate the Broadstone stop, so either the Luas route is going to need to be realigned or an agreement reached with Maxol.

It will be a compulsory purchase order. They arent going to risk the failure of a 400 million expansion on a petrol station. It will be brought and demolished for the luas.But I hope they put another petrol station elsewhere in town. As its one of the few petrol stations left in the city. Other than Gem on the southbound quays which is constantly in the media for the wrong reasons

In Germany I have seen petrol stations on the lower floor of multi-storey car parks. So they arent taking up prime retail space

nowecant

hfallada wrote: »

It will be a compulsory purchase order. They arent going to risk the failure of a 400 million expansion on a petrol station. It will be brought and demolished for the luas.But I hope they put another petrol station elsewhere in town. As its one of the few petrol stations left in the city. Other than Gem on the southbound quays which is constantly in the media for the wrong reasons

How long does that take? Can Maxol object?

My guess is that the station was meant to be gone as part of the Broadstone Gate development so by the time Luas work was meant to commence in the area it was already gone. Luas probably had very little to do with it originally.