New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

D Trent

nowecant

The have got excavators working at the new Broadstone Gate on constitution hill this morning. Hopefully we will be seeing more progress there soon

trellheim

Playing fields and brand new playground now open..... lots of kids around ... it has a zip line !!!

qweerty

trellheim wrote: »

Playing fields and brand new playground now open..... lots of kids around ... it has a zip line !!!

Zipline? :eek: I'm on my way.

Sam Russell

trellheim wrote: »

Playing fields and brand new playground now open..... lots of kids around ... it has a zip line !!!

I thought it was getting a Luas. How many can get on the zip line at a time? Is it quicker than the Luas?

doseire

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/grangegorman-dit-campus-injunction-refused-by-high-court-1.2450152

nowecant

This is a bit strange

http://www.per.gov.ie/en/minister-howlin-welcomes-high-court-decision-to-refuse-an-application-for-an-injunction-over-the-awarding-of-a-contract-for-the-grangegorman-dit-campus/

Minister Howlin welcomes High Court decision to refuse an application for an injunction over the awarding of a contract for the Grangegorman DIT campus

Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Brendan Howlin T.D., today (1 December 2015) welcomed the High Court decision to refuse an application for an injunction against the awarding of a multi-million euro contract for the new Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT) campus at Grangegorman.

In May of this year Minister Howlin made a number of changes to the Remedies Regulations to give the High Court jurisdiction to lift an “automatic suspension” should it see fit to do so.

The Remedies Regulations allow tenderers or candidates who feel that a public procurement process was not carried out in an open, fair and transparent manner the option of seeking recourse from the courts.

Welcoming today’s judgment, Minister Howlin said:

“This decision will allow for the Department of Education and Skills to recommence this project. DIT is currently one of the largest providers of higher education in the State. When completed the Grangegorman education facility will accommodate approximately 11,000 students and staff, consolidating half of DIT into a single site. This will derive significant efficiencies for a key third-level institution, which constitutes some 10% of all third-level education places in Ireland”.

I thought the idea was to move all of DIT to the new site? Have the scaled back the plans?

Subpopulus

nowecant wrote: »

This is a bit strange

http://www.per.gov.ie/en/minister-howlin-welcomes-high-court-decision-to-refuse-an-application-for-an-injunction-over-the-awarding-of-a-contract-for-the-grangegorman-dit-campus/



I thought the idea was to move all of DIT to the new site? Have the scaled back the plans?

It's been known for a while that DIT plan to hold onto the DIT Bolton Street complex, given its proximity to Grangegorman. Probably also the Cathal Brugha Street Building. Also that may refer to the fact that DIT is likely to amalgamate with IT Tallagh and IT Blanchardstown into a Dublin Technical University or somesuch institution, and therefore the numbers outside Grangegorman will swell. The Grangegorman plan is now almost 15 years old so I think the expectation that all of DIT would move to Grangegorman is a bit out of date.

Also, you have to think about future expansion of DIT - it would be silly if DIT moved all their facilities into the one location, and then wanted to expand, and had to start spreading out from Grangegorman. It makes sense to hold onto their properties close to Grangegorman.

qweerty

Yeah, very strange. If "Subpopulus" is right about it being known that DOT intends to hold on to Bolyon Street, the media certainly isn't aware, because they've been churning out articles over the last year citing the 20k figure. Under the original plans, it was supposed to be 11k by 2017 and 20k by 2020. Maybe that led to confusion. I would be disappointed if the single campus project were watered down so significantly, though I accept that the technological university project always seemed to be contrary to that.

nowecant

I had heard that some parts of the development had been scaled back slightly and there seems to be some recognition that the timeline would need to be stretched out further but 11k amounts to about half the student body moving.

The Broadstone Gate is also taking longer than I expected as well. I understand that this is linked to the Luas works which are currently focused on city center work but even with that I do not see much progress. Once this is done the new campus will seem much more connected to the city.

Long term I cant help but feel that that Dublin Bus and/or the Bus Eireann garages might be moved out of the city and the sites used incorporated into the Campus.

The new sports facilities at broombridge are also moving forward http://www.dit.ie/newsandevents/news/archive2015/latest/title,119895,en.html

LXFlyer

nowecant wrote: »

The Broadstone Gate is also taking longer than I expected as well. I understand that this is linked to the Luas works which are currently focused on city center work but even with that I do not see much progress. Once this is done the new campus will seem much more connected to the city.

Long term I cant help but feel that that Dublin Bus and/or the Bus Eireann garages might be moved out of the city and the sites used incorporated into the Campus.

There was a significant legal action involving the garage opposite Western Way that delayed work on the entrance site.

As for relocating the bus depots at Phibsboro and Broadstone, I would fervently hope that never happens.

Bizarrely enough you need depots both at the city end of routes and at the other end. Relocating it elsewhere would mean a significant amount of dead running by buses (especially Bus Eireann). Buses that arrive at Busaras and need refuelling and cleaning would have to travel much longer distances to get serviced, wasting time and money unnecessarily.

That site is strategically important for our public transport services and changing the status would be a serious mistake.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

There was a significant legal action involving the garage opposite Western Way that delayed work on the entrance site.

As for relocating the bus depots at Phibsboro and Broadstone, I would fervently hope that never happens.

Bizarrely enough you need depots both at the city end of routes and at the other end. Relocating it elsewhere would mean a significant amount of dead running by buses (especially Bus Eireann). Buses that arrive at Busaras and need refuelling and cleaning would have to travel much longer distances to get serviced, wasting time and money unnecessarily.

That site is strategically important for our public transport services and changing the status would be a serious mistake.

Which is more suitable at a city centre location served by Luas and buses and in easy walking and cycling distance to most of the employment in the city: thousands of homes and many offices or surface parking and garage space for buses? In sustainable planning terms the answer is not buses!

There's no desirable route between Broadstone and Busaras where you want buses running empty or where does not suffer from major congestion. If refueling is the main issue, surely a site in or around the Docklands could be found? Maybe as an expanded part of the planned NTA coach parking?

As for Dublin Bus, most routes should be cross city, so there's little need for buses to be parked or repaired at central locations on the level as currently happens. The need for sustainable development of homes and offices far outweighs the need for mass levels of surface bus parking and repair.

It's maybe best for another thread.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Which is more suitable at a city centre location served by Luas and buses and in easy walking and cycling distance to most of the employment in the city: thousands of homes and many offices or surface parking and garage space for buses? In sustainable planning terms the answer is not buses!

There's no desirable route between Broadstone and Busaras where you want buses running empty or where does not suffer from major congestion. If refueling is the main issue, surely a site in or around the Docklands could be found? Maybe as an expanded part of the planned NTA coach parking?

As for Dublin Bus, most routes should be cross city, so there's little need for buses to be parked or repaired at central locations on the level as currently happens. The need for sustainable development of homes and offices far outweighs the need for mass levels of surface bus parking and repair.

It's maybe best for another thread.

Whatever you may think, that site is strategically important as it allows easy access to the city centre and four major corridors - you have to accept that for an efficient bus network to operate, you need depots sited at strategic locations. This (and indeed Donnybrook - another site people wanted to redevelop) are precisely that - strategic locations.

You'd actually be surprised how quickly BE coaches get from the city to Broadstone.

Similarly DB use Broadstone for many peak extras, many of which do start in the city.

Operating a public transport system is never as black and white as you think, and whether you like it or not sometimes you have to accept that depots and bus stands in strategic locations are a necessity that it cannot do without.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

monument wrote: »

Which is more suitable at a city centre location served by Luas and buses and in easy walking and cycling distance to most of the employment in the city: thousands of homes and many offices or surface parking and garage space for buses? In sustainable planning terms the answer is not buses!

There's no desirable route between Broadstone and Busaras where you want buses running empty or where does not suffer from major congestion. If refueling is the main issue, surely a site in or around the Docklands could be found? Maybe as an expanded part of the planned NTA coach parking?

As for Dublin Bus, most routes should be cross city, so there's little need for buses to be parked or repaired at central locations on the level as currently happens. The need for sustainable development of homes and offices far outweighs the need for mass levels of surface bus parking and repair.

It's maybe best for another thread.

Whatever you may think, that site is strategically important as it allows easy access to the city centre and four major corridors - you have to accept that for an efficient bus network to operate, you need depots sited at strategic locations. This (and indeed Donnybrook - another site people wanted to redevelop) are precisely that - strategic locations.

You'd actually be surprised how quickly BE coaches get from the city to Broadstone.

Similarly DB use Broadstone for many peak extras, many of which do start in the city.

Operating a public transport system is never as black and white as you think, and whether you like it or not sometimes you have to accept that depots and bus stands in strategic locations are a necessity that it cannot do without.

I'm not saying it's black and white, I know it's not. But the current level of bus parking and garage space in central areas isn't getting the balance right.

It goes against the grain of sustainable planning to allow Broadstone to be kept for surface parking in the mid to long run -- the CIE site near Docklands, part of which is air marked for coach parking should be kept for coach and bus parking. It's a better location in terms of access to the Busaras, and the M50 and airport via the Port Tunnel.

Re Donnybrook: I'd at least partly try that as a park and ride site in connection with rolling out proper BRT-standard bus segregation from there into the city centre. Apartments and offices could be built over the P&R. Call it a trade off for a better route into town. Replace surface parking at UCD with some bus parking.

nowecant

I would also argue against both bus garages as to their effect on the area. Granted Grangegorman has not helped but they are a large, impermeable barrier in the city which divides the greater Phibsborough area from the greater Stoneybatter area. On top of that the benefit to both communities and local business if both sites were redeveloped for high quality housing, retail and/or business would be immense. For the area both these garages occupy they do not bring a huge amount of employment to the area and those that are there are kind of separated from any community around them.

Is there also not an argument that if e.g. the Dublin Bus garage was moved out to an extended and further modernized Harristown that considerable savings could be made though efficiency

I have always thought the Broadstone station building a wonderful piece of architecture which would make a fantastic hotel or concert venue, perhaps a concert/conference venue linked to the new DIT

nowecant

Although the plans have changed since they were originally conceived this will give an idea of the original vision of the masterplan for an expanded grangegorman campus. http://www.moorerubleyudell.com/projects/grangegorman-urban-quarter-masterplan-broadstone-terminal

There are also a lot of other ideas floating around on the internet for the garages if one cares to look

I think it is only a a matter of time before it is eventually redeveloped, I just hope that both the college and the local communities benefit in equal measure

qweerty

Was in Grangegorman today. As ever, I found it delightful. And grass now covers the pitches and surrounding slopes, and the opaque barriers have been taken down. However, while it's partly inevitable that I would feel this way in the absence of students, I thought the playground detracted from what should be a student-y atmosphere.

nowecant

O'Donnell Tuomey won the contract to design the Academic Hub T
http://ggda.ie/o-donnell-tuomey-to-design-new-academic-hub

This is to include co located DIT and DCC libraries among other college facilities

This is a really good choice, their work is great and they have a lot of experience working in the education sector and they won the Royal Gold Medal last year

Also I see that work is finally progressing at pace for the Broadstone Gate, they finally finished the bridge to allow buses to move from one bus garage to the other and allow the Luas and students pass under

LXFlyer

The bridge is really to allow buses enter/exit Broadstone depot rather than move from one depot to the other.

Good to see progress!

nowecant

I seen that they were finally removing some of the soil between the new bridge and the road just below the old garage. Hopefully they make quick work of the petrol station soon.

The Luas tracks have been laid (though not finished) on the other side of the road. I wonder are they going to use the extra space they dig out on the garage side to reroute traffic so they can complete the installation of tracks across the road.

Once the ground is dug out it will be much easier to see how this space will work, i have high hopes for it in the long term.

spacetweek

Quick q - can I clarify that the Luas is being bridged over Constitution Hill?

brownbeard

spacetweek wrote: »

Quick q - can I clarify that the Luas is being bridged over Constitution Hill?

The luas will cross at grade with church street I believe. The bridge is for the busses going from one garage to the other.

LXFlyer

brownbeard wrote: »

The luas will cross at grade with church street I believe. The bridge is for the busses going from one garage to the other.

As above LUAS will cross Constitution Hill at grade, subsequently passing under a bridge as it heads towards Broombridge.

The bridge is to allow buses access Broadstone depot from Constitution Hill. Buses don't go from one depot to the other.

nowecant

lxflyer wrote: »

As above LUAS will cross Constitution Hill at grade, subsequently passing under a bridge as it heads towards Broombridge.

The bridge is to allow buses access Broadstone depot from Constitution Hill. Buses don't go from one depot to the other.

You can see progress here https://www.facebook.com/382314786412/photos/pcb.10154067769286413/10154067766076413/?type=3&theater

MJohnston

Bit of a shame they couldn't make a Luas bridge or tunnel work financially here, Constitution Hill can already get pretty bad with traffic in the evening.s

dubhthach

MJohnston wrote: »

Bit of a shame they couldn't make a Luas bridge or tunnel work financially here, Constitution Hill can already get pretty bad with traffic in the evening.s

indeed there use to be the Foster Aqueduct right beside route (you can see a fragment of it on railway station side of road. They could have revived the name and all

nowecant

Indeed I remember seeing some of the original concept images for this and there was to be a large Dundrum style bridge across the junction here with the Luas stop on front of and at the level of the old Broadstone Terminus.

Not sure if it was cost or engineering involved but it seems to have been abandoned pretty early in the design phase. It might also have something to do with the gradient it would have had to go up coming off Upper Dominic Street.

Wasted opportunity I think, and one that might have helped to speed up the Luas in and out of the city, even 1 or 2 minutes is a big difference when you multiply it by a few hundred people, dozens of times a day for several decades

nowecant

There might finally be some progress on either or the central and eastern quads now.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/builder-loses-challenge-to-tender-for-new-dit-campus-35111306.html

Even if they were to start tomorrow I wonder how long it would be before they could move students? September 2018?

This Irish Times article is much more extensive

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/high-court-rejects-challenge-to-dit-contract-award-1.2820849

nowecant

Finally there is movement on this.
"New research hub is first new DIT Grangegorman building"
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0301/856491-new-research-hub-is-first-new-dit-grangegorman-building/

No more updates on the central or eastern quads though. These are major elements of the college and would move circa 10,000 students up to the site.

This is also interesting. I think it would be perfect for the college if they decided to go for it.
"DIT denies purchase of €9m Dublin's North Circular Road office"
http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/dit-denies-purchase-of-9m-dublins-north-circular-road-office-35493661.html

I cant find the links now but there is a number of Student accommodation schemes under construction, approved or in planning on the north inner city at the moment. I believe the figures are circa 8,000 beds.

This is obviously a major benefit to the area and will really invigorate some of the local shops and bars. However others have their concerns

"Concerns raised over impact of student accommodation on north Dublin communities"
http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/concerns-raised-over-impact-student-12654175

Sam Russell

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