New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

TheBandicoot

I'm an confused, are they going around the site with the new "access routes for DIT Grangegorman", or are they CPOing the site so the original route can go ahead? Or is it both?

nowecant

I think most of us are confused as well.

I believe they are going ahead will all of the rest of the construction, pending getting the CPO.

This video shows what the new Broadstone Gate is meant to look like.

nowecant

Has anyone heard anything else about this?

Also I wonder what the changes are that DIT might bid on Park House on the North Circular Road. It looks like it could be very useful to the college.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/park-house-on-ncr-to-headline-latest-allsop-space-auction-1.1769999

BonkeyDonker

nowecant wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything else about this?

Also I wonder what the changes are that DIT might bid on Park House on the North Circular Road. It looks like it could be very useful to the college.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/park-house-on-ncr-to-headline-latest-allsop-space-auction-1.1769999

While not an expert I cannot see them needing to. The new campus is planned to take the majority of the staff/students, and their remaining facilities would probably on if required.

nowecant

It would be more a of a long term strategic investment. Its not often that a site/building like this in a location beside the new campus will come on the market. Considering the current property values and the fact that not a lot of business will be interested in this location I think it would be a perfect investment.

wicklowwonder

nowecant wrote: »

It would be more a of a long term strategic investment. Its not often that a site/building like this in a location beside the new campus will come on the market. Considering the current property values and the fact that not a lot of business will be interested in this location I think it would be a perfect investment.

Do DIT have the sort of money required?

nowecant

No idea, I would assume that with an institution of that size with he kind of money moving in and out of it it would not be too difficult to set up financing on such an asset.

Whether the money is got from a bank or from the government I dont know. But they have bought premisses in the past, I just dont know what the process is.

Aard

The Grangegorman SDZ has been approved. I can't see them looking for a variation on the plan just to incorporate another site. It's an incredibly complicated structuring of all the different parts - DIT has to plan for which Schools will move and when, the City Council / the Bord has to approve the scheme, the government has to finance it all, the architects have to design it.... It would be a nightmare to make alterations just for one building when ostensibly they already have all their ducks in a row as it is. What you suggest gets to the core of the nature of planning - what approach to take. If opportunities arise, should they be assessed and perhaps grasped? Or should the plan go ahead as approved, knowing all of the weak points already without potentially adding another?

Godge

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Do DIT have the sort of money required?

No

nowecant wrote: »

No idea, I would assume that with an institution of that size with he kind of money moving in and out of it it would not be too difficult to set up financing on such an asset.

Whether the money is got from a bank or from the government I dont know. But they have bought premisses in the past, I just dont know what the process is.

Don't think they can borrow money.

nowecant

Godge wrote: »

No
Don't think they can borrow money.

How do they go about funding any capital investments? I am not doubting you I would just find it interesting to know the process. While i certainly understand that this would be a significant and unexpected investment I believe it would be a great investment for the future.

In comparison Trinity seem to be able to make these sort of investments, though i know their respective situations are not really comparable.

Also i notice that the tender has just gone up for Phase 2 Works Contract for the Refurbishment, Construction of Structure 12
(Laundry Building) to form a Primary Care Centre and New Building
Extension to form a Primary Care Centre.

nowecant

Does anyone know of any updates to this situation with Maxol and the entrance to the new campus? I cant seem to find anything online


Maxol Oil Company is considering legal action in a dispute over a one acre site in the North of Dublin that has threatened both the Luas Cross City and DIT Grangegorman projects.


Dublin city councillors have given the go ahead for new access routes for the DIT Grangegorman development to be built around a site that Maxol has refused to vacate.

petronius

It seems crazy that they can not sort this out, the idea from plans of the plaza and a landscaped area from constitution hill kings inns across where the broadstone bus station is linking into st brendans way and DIT Grangegorman looked wonderful and it would be shameful if some mess up couldnt compensate properly the maxol station and allow it to be incorporated into the plan.

my understanding was they had had an agreement but were unhappy and withdrew from it.

nowecant

petronius wrote: »

my understanding was they had had an agreement but were unhappy and withdrew from it.

AFAIK the agreement fell through when DCC were unable to provide them with an alternative site when the only site they offered them had its planning permission application turned down.

This issue still have not been sorted. It must be affecting construction times now and the new luas line

Aard

Did the Coolock site even go to planning permission stage?

nowecant

Sorry you are correct. It was DCC who turned down the application

http://www.thejournal.ie/proposal-to-place-petrol-station-next-to-coolock-school-rejected-by-dublin-city-council-945504-Jun2013/

nowecant

Incase anyone has not seen it the Grangegorman Development Authority have a decent Facebook Presence at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grangegorman-Development-Agency/382314786412?fref=ts

Aard

@nowecant

What's your interest in this project? You seem to know a lot about it and are the main contributor to this thread! (Not an accusatory question, just curious.)

nowecant

I like big infrastructure projects, I live locally, work locally, I went to DIT and have a couple of contacts on the project. I also plan on working in third level education. I also believe that education (good and effective) is the silver bullet to many of the issues we face. And it seems to me that DIT is the least discriminatory of the major institutions.

I follow several infrastructure threads on boards but dont really contribute to many as i don't know enough about the subject, but i like to keep up to date. When i started this thread a few years back it seemed that even among infrastructure anoraks that this was being ignored

Lastly I think DIT have been treated like the distant cousin with Tourette syndrome of Irish education, pitied, laughed at and their qualities ignored.

petronius

While I have my misgivings about a one size fits all style of third level institution and they all want to be all encompassing universities the move to Grangegorman will allow DIT to be such single campus university.
Does Dublin need a 4th university as such is another question, I fear the DIT is losing its role for providing stepping stones to degrees via apprenticeships to certificates to diplomas to degrees etc.

In many ways DIT is becoming what the NIHE (DCU) was intended to be.
I like Grangegorman as a place and it will benefit the area greatly, I hope they maintain as much green space as possible, and keep the campus open to the surrounding areas and used by the community. And not use the Institutions walls to segregate it from its hinterland the way TCD is closed off from Pearse Street etc.

Was the planning permission refused or the maxol garage on the M1 due to some prior commitment with applegreen? or was it some other issue...

Idbatterim

I hope they are building a serious amount of onsite accommodation for students?

cgcsb

Over 10000 units afaik

nowecant

cgcsb wrote: »

Over 10000 units afaik

I was not aware of that. Do you have any links?

10000 would be enough to provide accommodation for a half the students or roughly the first two years, more than any other third level institution.

nowecant

Found a link referencing the 10000 student accommodation places at

ggda.ie/assets/GG_CG_CEO_Slides_21_March_2013.pdf

That seems like a very impressive amount.

Idbatterim

I came across a document saying the accommodation would sleep 1500-2000, there is no way it is 10,000! Here we go 1550-2000 bed spaces...

http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/OtherDevelopmentPlans/LocalAreaPlans/Documents/GG%20Chapter05.pdf

brownbeard

nowecant wrote: »

Found a link referencing the 10000 student accommodation places at

ggda.ie/assets/GG_CG_CEO_Slides_21_March_2013.pdf

That seems like a very impressive amount.

Can't find a reference to 10000 accommodation places in the link above? On p39 it references capacity on site for 1600 beds...

nowecant

brownbeard wrote: »

Can't find a reference to 10000 accommodation places in the link above? On p39 it references capacity on site for 1600 beds...

Sorry I read this wrong last night. "Relocation of circa 10,000 students ~50% of DIT students" (page 20) Too late and too tired to be on the internet.

But here is a link which also specifies "The Project provides for the relocation and accommodation of circa 10,000 students" http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:292424-2013:TEXT:EN:HTML

Now i doubt that they are housing 10,000 on that site, as i said last night i was unaware of this until it was stated here. I just read that statement wrong. The quote from the second link above is also not exactly clear as its for the relocation and accommodation. Maybe in the future of they were to be given one or both buss garage sites they would be able to accommodate 10,000

cgcsb

hover over the map and it tells you what each blocks, it seems at first like there are 6 quads each housing 2000 students i.e. 12,000 in total, however 2000 is probably the planned total. There are also derelict areas around grangegorman which will no doubt become student homes.

http://ggda.ie/projects

nowecant

I would love if they were providing accommodation for 10,000 but looking at the plans and the documentation I really don't think they are.

The tool tips on that map state "the creation of student housing on site aims to provide 2,000 bed spaces for student accommodation in a number of buildings on site." That unfortunately reads 2000 in total, not 2000 per block.

I have long argued, and hoped that DIT would also get possession of at least one if not both bus garages adjacent to the site. I believe there is room out beside Harristown Bus Garage to expand operations there.

Adding either or both of these sites would significantly add to the amount of student accommodation that the college could provide. It would also be of significant benefit to the local community.

Some of the early concept designs and video seems to suggest that they had plans extending to these sites but I am unsure whether it was something seriously discussed or if it was just dreaming.

brownbeard

Would it be the case that development of the bus garages is planned for in the distant future? It's my understanding that the whole campus as envisioned hasn't got funding in place as it is. The two quads have funding under PPPs plus the environmental health sciences institute plus refurbishment of old buildings. This would put 10000 students on campus, which is half of the whole project as envisioned. Does anyone know about the status of the rest of it?

nowecant

brownbeard wrote: »

Would it be the case that development of the bus garages is planned for in the distant future?

Lets hope so

brownbeard wrote: »

It's my understanding that the whole campus as envisioned hasn't got funding in place as it is. The two quads have funding under PPPs plus the environmental health sciences institute plus refurbishment of old buildings. This would put 10000 students on campus, which is half of the whole project as envisioned. Does anyone know about the status of the rest of it?

AFAIK you are correct and the rest of the campus has not got any funding right now. At least the first 10,000 students will have a vast improvement in facilities and services even if it takes a while for the rest to arrive. DIT will finally be getting a home which is worthwhile investing in rather than maintaining and half investing in unsuitable distributed locations.