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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #242
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Lucky guess I think.....
    Oh Jeeez, Owen! I was defending you.


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    #243
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But just since you mention the new plan for Irish education here in the south I honestly think it is the worst thing they could possibly do. As a person who did his leaving cert this year I can honestly tell you the pressure before the Irish oral exam is far worse then the pressure before the actual exam. I believe resting 40% of the students results on a 15 minute exam is not only blatently mean but rather un-fair also.

    Speaking & listening are the most important aspects of a language. Why shouldn't it receive just weight in marks?


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    #244
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    Dunno, I have no interest in reading the constitution - none at all. So all I've read on it is what quoted here as Article 8.

    So maybe I'd think more of it was BS if I actually read the thing - but that ain't likely to happen.

    I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I read it, I don't - doesn't bother me in the least :)
    You should read it, fascinating stuff.


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    #245
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    By the way CoalBucket. Do you know what the definition of native language is? Obviously not so I'll provide you with a quote and link from wikipedia:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    A first language (also native language, arterial language, or L1) is the language a person has learned from birth or speaks the best.
    Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_language

    Now seeing as I didn't speak Irish from birth and it is not by far the language I speak best we can conclude from this that it is not my native language as it does not fit the definition of a native language. Ok?

    There is nothing wrong with being wrong. But please in future don't use terms such as our native language when in the presence of one who does not share your misty eyed celtic tripe.


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    #246
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    By the way CoalBucket. Do you know what the definition of native language is? Obviously not so I'll provide you with a quote and link from wikipedia:

    Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_language

    Now seeing as I didn't speak Irish from birth and it is not by far the language I speak best we can conclude from this that it is not my native language as it does not fit the definition of a native language. Ok?

    There is nothing wrong with being wrong. But please in future don't use terms such as our native language when in the presence of one who does not share your misty eyed celtic tripe.

    At last someone has proven them wrong!:eek:


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    #247
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    the englishman would laugh at us if he read all of these threads, bickering and arguing about our own language, ye turncoats can kiss mine........

    irish was deliberately though in a **** manner in schools:confused: , how is it my own son thought me more about the language in a day then i learned in primary school.


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    #248
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Speaking & listening are the most important aspects of a language. Why shouldn't it receive just weight in marks?
    Because it adds undue pressure on students who already have their hands full. I always liked the German course, are you familiar with it? I think something like that. Especially for Ordinary level would be the best way to go.


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    #249
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Because it adds undue pressure on students who already have their hands full. I always liked the German course, are you familiar with it? I think something like that. Especially for Ordinary level would be the best way to go.

    I'm not. I only studied German for the junior cert, and that was 15 years ago - so I can't remember much of it to be honest.

    But I agree, in the context of - that you can't just put added marks on for spoken Irish, unless something is done beforehand to improve your spoken Irish. Therefore, language immersion is the best way to solve that.

    But spoken Irish IMO is the most important aspect of the language, and yet - it's the one that we struggle with most. I learned to speak Irish through immersion, so I feel it's the best way to solve this.


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    #250
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So you are willing to believe every piece of bullshít that comes from the governments mouth? No wonder you support the continued waste of tax-payers money.

    No I don't believe every word that comes out of the governments mouth. The Census is not carried out by the government. It is carried out by a state agency known as the central statistics office. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the government.

    I don't support waste of tax payers money. I do support efficient spending on the official language of the state. I do not contend that the way the money is currently spent is efficient but I don't believe that all funding towards Irish should be withdrawn.

    Do me a favour and read what I actually said rather assuming something that you erroneously inferred.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But it is still a relic. A relic in use is still a relic.

    In your opinion it is a relic. I disagree.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Ok then can you give me pragmatic reasons why Irish is worth every penny it recieves? And notice I wrote pragmatic.

    I addressed my opinions on spending on the Irish language above. I do hope you find the response pragmatic.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I know what is wrote in the constitution thanks. I have a copy as home. Either way the language of the state is not my native language. Ok?

    It is the official language of the state. What you choose to stand by or ignore in the constitution is a matter for you.


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    #251
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I think with the huge popularity of Gaelscoileanna (it basically guarantees a child a honors in LC Irish) the trend for Irish can only go up. I really wish I went to one, would love to be fluent or at least partially fluent. It shames me whenever I am talking to foreign people and they react with surprise that there is an Irish language. Their reaction is almost uniformly "why are you not speaking it?" And I can barely muster together a few basic sentences. Personally I feel there is a lot of national pride to be found in a language.

    Ever thought about a tutor or night classes ?;)Friends of mine from eastern europe are taking Irish classes and love it :)

    Irish (Gaeilge) is a Celtic language and is the official language of Ireland. Since the 1st of January 2007 Irish has been an official language of the European Union. Of the 4 million plus residents in the Republic of Ireland approximately 85,000 speak Irish on a daily basis;)


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    #252
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    By the way CoalBucket. Do you know what the definition of native language is? Obviously not so I'll provide you with a quote and link from wikipedia:

    Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_language

    Now seeing as I didn't speak Irish from birth and it is not by far the language I speak best we can conclude from this that it is not my native language as it does not fit the definition of a native language. Ok?

    There is nothing wrong with being wrong. But please in future don't use terms such as our native language when in the presence of one who does not share your misty eyed celtic tripe.

    By the way I said National Language rather than native. I agree there is nothing wrong with being wrong. Again try reading the post rather than inferring a meaning that is not there.


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    #253
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    caseyann wrote: »
    Ever thought about a tutor or night classes ?;)Friends of mine from eastern europe are taking Irish classes and love it :)

    Irish (Gaeilge) is a Celtic language and is the official language of Ireland. Since the 1st of January 2007 Irish has been an official language of the European Union. Of the 4 million plus residents in the Republic of Ireland approximately 85,000 speak Irish on a daily basis;)

    Run for your life now for stating that fact.


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    #254
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    By the way I said National Language rather than native. I agree there is nothing wrong with being wrong. Again try reading the post rather than inferring a meaning that is not there.

    How can it be national when only 85,000 people speak it out of 4million english people that is just not right and stupid of the Irish government to do that.


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    #255
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I'm not. I only studied German for the junior cert, and that was 15 years ago - so I can't remember much of it to be honest.

    But I agree, in the context of - that you can't just put added marks on for spoken Irish, unless something is done beforehand to improve your spoken Irish. Therefore, language immersion is the best way to solve that.

    But spoken Irish IMO is the most important aspect of the language, and yet - it's the one that we struggle with most. I learned to speak Irish through immersion, so I feel it's the best way to solve this.
    But how can you expect students to immerse themselves in a language when not only to they have six-seven other subjects to do but only 2-3% of the population actually speaks Irish?


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    #256
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But how can you expect students to immerse themselves in a language when not only to they have six-seven other subjects to do but only 2-3% of the population actually speaks Irish?

    Teach a subject through Irish, place focus on spoken Irish. Divide the Irish curriculum into spoken Irish, and grammar/poetry etc..


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    #257
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    owenc wrote: »
    Run for your life now for stating that fact.

    Why i am on side of Irish and to see the percentage of Irish speaking it on daily basis and the others who try to speak it on a daily basis it will and always has been and will be my families native language.
    What needs to be done is fix how its taught to the kids.


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    #258
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    owenc wrote: »
    How can it be national when only 85,000 people speak it out of 4million english people that is just not right and stupid of the Irish government to do that.

    It is the national language as it is the language of the state enshrigned in our constitution.

    By the way when I say "our" I am not including you in that comment as you are a british national.

    I am glad to get an international opinion whether you think it was "stupid of the Irish government to do that" but it is up to the people of Ireland to alter our constitution as we see fit.


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    #259
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    caseyann wrote: »
    Why i am on side of Irish and to see the percentage of Irish speaking it on daily basis and the others who try to speak it on a daily basis it will and always has been and will be my families native language.
    What needs to be done is fix how its taught to the kids.

    No i was expecting them to bombard you with arguments because you gave a figure lower than their estimated 150,000.


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    #260
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    It is the national language as it is the language of the state enshrigned in our constitution.

    By the way when I say "our" I am not including you in that comment as you are a british national.

    I am glad to get an international opinion whether you think it was "stupid of the Irish government to do that" but it is up to the people of Ireland to alter our constitution as we see fit.

    Yes its the national language of the Republic of Ireland.


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    #261
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    By the way I said National Language rather than native. I agree there is nothing wrong with being wrong. Again try reading the post rather than inferring a meaning that is not there.
    You said native language right here, post number two hundred and thirty.
    Here's the quote:
    CoalBucket wrote:
    There is more than enough tax being wasted in this country which might need addressing before trying to justify a case for trying to get rid of our native language. However that is a completly different thread.
    You must have a short memory. But anyway since you agree that there is nothing wrong with being wrong I hope in future you wil no longer use this term.


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    #262
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You said native language right here, post number two hundred and thirty.
    Here's the quote:

    You must have a short memory. Since you agree that there is nothing wrong with being wrong I hope in future you wil no longeruse this term.

    I stand corrected, change native for national, now how about addressing the remainder of my points. BTW I aspire to live up to your hopes


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    #263
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Teach a subject through Irish, place focus on spoken Irish. Divide the Irish curriculum into spoken Irish, and grammar/poetry etc..
    Surely you cannot expect teachers to teach subjects like Business Studies or Biology through the Irish language. I doubt words even exist for half of the technical terms. And even if they did the majority of teachers will refuse to learn a new language.


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    #264
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    owenc wrote: »
    No i was expecting them to bombard you with arguments because you gave a figure lower than their estimated 150,000.

    Well these are estimated they can be higher.
    I know personally a good few people who speak Irish in their homes on daily basis in Dublin and encourage their kids to speak it.
    I know a few older teens and young adults who have Irish clubs they go out and meet up coffee in the pub and speak Irish.
    If anything Irish is becoming hip :cool:


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    #265
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    I stand corrected, change native for national, now how about addressing the remainder of my points. BTW I aspire to live up to your hopes
    Sure thing. But later, food calls now. :D


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    #266
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Surely you cannot expect teachers to teach subjects like Business Studies or Biology through the Irish language. I doubt words even exist for half of the technical terms. And even if they did the majority of teachers will refuse to learn a new language.

    They could teach history, for a start. You asked what we can do, I provided you with an answer. If spoken Irish is to be improved, we need to immerse our students in the language. That is the only way that they can learn it to a high standard. If I can become semi-fluent in 3 years, meeting up with people once a week - then students can certainly learn it to a semi-fluent standard over a decade.


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    #267
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Surely you cannot expect teachers to teach subjects like Business Studies or Biology through the Irish language. I doubt words even exist for half of the technical terms. And even if they did the majority of teachers will refuse to learn a new language.
    I was taught all these subjects through Irish.:p


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    #268
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    caseyann wrote: »
    I was taught all these subjects through Irish.:p

    Why did you learn english?


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    #269
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Sure thing. But later, food calls now. :D

    I will await with great anticipation.


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    #270
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    Why did you learn english?

    Why wouldn't she learn English?


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    #271
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    owenc wrote: »
    Why did you learn english?


    Because it was apart of the fecking curriculum :mad: Forced i would have been happy with Irish only :) Just kidding why not learn English also i have nothing against English been spoken but i sure have a hell of alot against people wanting my native teanga gone :mad:
    That would be like asking people in other countries why they learned English also,don't you think?


    P.S i wouldnt be able to converse with you if i didnt unless you made an effort to learn Irish,An bhfuil é sin ceart?


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