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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #182
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    owenc wrote: »
    Do you agree then that it is a waste of time making people learn it and wasting money on puting it on road signs when half people have no clue what it says.

    why do you give a shit? it barely has an effect on your life? or perhaps it effects your granny's second cousin once removed who moved down south 30 years ago??


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    #183
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    A person can have two or more native languages.

    There is no language called "Scottish". There is Scottish Gaelic, which is derived from the middle Irish language, and there is Scots which is derived from middle English.

    Scots is a dialect.


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    #184
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    aDeener wrote: »
    why do you give a shit? it barely has an effect on your life? or perhaps it effects your granny's second cousin once removed who moved down south 30 years ago??

    I don' have anyone down south stop trying to tell me my family tree.


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    #185
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I don' have anyone down south stop trying to tell me my family tree.
    Stop telling us about yours then, we don't care what your cousins/uncles/grannies/postman/neighbor's dog have done or are currently doing.


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    #186
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Stop telling us about yours then, we don't care what your cousins/uncles/grannies/postman/neighbor's dog have done or are currently doing.

    Would you stop friggen bringing that up , i never said that.!:mad::mad: and an adult should not be bothered if i tell them that.


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    #187
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    Scots is a dialect.

    Well, I didn't want to offend you by calling it a dialect. It's up for dispute whether it's a dialect or indeed a language in it's own right, as it is derived from middle English, and not modern English.

    In anycase, you missed about 20 points that I made and cherry-picked something of non-importance to debate. Well done. :rolleyes:


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    #188
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Well, I didn't want to offend you by calling it a dialect. It's up for dispute whether it's a dialect or indeed a language in it's own right, as it is derived from middle English, and not modern English.

    In anycase, you missed about 20 points that I made and cherry-picked something of non-importance to debate. Well done. :rolleyes:

    Thanks it was nice of you to complemet me. How would that offend me?


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    #189
    simonj
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    owenc wrote: »
    Scots is a dialect.

    Well, its just slightly different, but I like to think of it as a language in its own right, as do people from Barra, Uist, Moideart and other areas


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    #190
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    simonj wrote: »
    Well, its just slightly different, but I like to think of it as a language in its own right, as do people from Barra, Uist, Moideart and other areas

    Why aren't you identifying the other areas.:rolleyes: How is that a language they have scots here in coleraine and it is not a language just a accent with a few scottish words in it.


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    #191
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    Yes it is a dead language and it is just so pointless and useless, I hated learning Irish in school, it's just a complete waste of time.


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    #192
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    Yes it is a dead language and it is just so pointless and useless, I hated learning Irish in school, it's just a complete waste of time.
    Here we go again. You are wrong, it is not dead, there are thousands of native speakers.


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    #193
    simonj
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    owenc wrote: »
    Why aren't you identifying the other areas.:rolleyes: How is that a language they have scots here in coleraine and it is not a language just a accent with a few scottish words in it.

    Well, I do not need to list the entire geolingual area of the British and Irish Isles FFS, and as for using words from different languages, try thug, local, galore, schardenfreude, nous - most English words based in latin or flemish - dont expect me to list them all, buy a dictonary.

    I tried to be civil, and explain as much as I could that Irish is a living and a culturally valuable asset to our island, but people like you - on both sides of the divide - seem stuck on identity politics.

    As I said earlier, I did not apprieciate the attempt at pidgeon holing, and this is verging on trolling.

    If you are unable to debate the issue as an reasonable adult, in English or any other language both of us may share, there is little point in me posting.


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    #194
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    simonj wrote: »
    Well, I do not need to list the entire geolingual area of the British and Irish Isles FFS, and as for using words from different languages, try thug, local, galore, schardenfreude, nous - most English words based in latin or flemish - dont expect me to list them all, buy a dictonary.

    I tried to be civil, and explain as much as I could that Irish is a living and a culturally valuable asset to our island, but people like you - on both sides of the divide - seem stuck on identity politics.

    As I said earlier, I did not apprieciate the attempt at pidgeon holing, and this is verging on trolling.

    If you are unable to debate the issue as an reasonable adult, in English or any other language both of us may share, there is little point in me posting.

    Yes but these scottish words are unigue to Northern Northern ireland they are not used anywhere else in this island.


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    #195
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but these scottish words are unigue to Northern Northern ireland they are not used anywhere else in this island.
    What has that got to do with Irish?


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    #196
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What has that got to do with Irish?

    I was talking to the above poster.:rolleyes: Back on topic, i think irish will eventually be dead theres not really that many people learning it so the numbers won't support it.


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    #197
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    I was talking to the above poster.:rolleyes: Back on topic, i think irish will eventually be dead theres not really that many people learning it so the numbers won't support it.

    You just haven't bothered to pay attention to anything in this thread have you?

    No matter the proof and evidence that was posted, you just ignored anything that deviated from your own opinion.


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    #198
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    owenc wrote: »
    I was talking to the above poster.:rolleyes: Back on topic, i think irish will eventually be dead theres not really that many people learning it so the numbers won't support it.
    Yeah, and you were talking off-topic. :rolleyes:

    Anyway I think you are right when you say irish death is inevitable. There just is no reason for it's continued existence. Eventually with the increasing speed of gobalisation and the less important role ideals such as nationalism and tribalism play in peoples minds, irish will fall by the way-side never to be picked up again because there is simply no point.


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    #199
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yeah, and you were talking off-topic. :rolleyes:

    Anyway I think you are right when you say irish death is inevitable. There just is no reason for it's continued existence. Eventually with the increasing speed of gobalisation and the less important role ideals such as nationalism and tribalism play in peoples minds, irish will fall by the way-side never to be picked up again because there is simply no point.

    Globalisation is no excuse for erasing anything of a cultural nature, if anything it is more important than ever to hold on to such things.


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    #200
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Having read the last 15 plus pages ( tough reading ) I found lots of opinion but little to back it up either way.

    For those interested in the only figures available to the number of Irish speakers refer to the following link to the 2006 census which indicate the numbers of Irish speakers has been underestimated in this thread.

    http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_9/tables_1-17.pdf

    I don't speak Irish. I've been through the Irish education system. Maybe it was my dis-interest at the time, the teaching of the language or possibly my ineptitude towards the language.

    Despite my inablity I find the "dislike" (the mildest word that comes to mind) of the Irish language astounding.

    If you love the Irish language and can speak and promote it good for you.

    If you can't speak the language and are frustrated and dispair that the methods of teaching have not been more successful, I completely agree.

    If you are of the opinion that Irish should die out purely because you can't speak it, you need to get over it.

    If you think that it is a complete waste of tax payers money. There is more than enough tax being wasted in this country which might need addressing before trying to justify a case for trying to get rid of our native language. However that is a completly different thread.


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    #201
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    Having read the last 15 plus pages ( tough reading ) I found lots of opinion but little to back it up either way.

    For those interested in the only figures available to the number of Irish speakers refer to the following link to the 2006 census which indicate the numbers of Irish speakers has been underestimated in this thread.

    http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_9/tables_1-17.pdf

    I don't speak Irish. I've been through the Irish education system. Maybe it was my dis-interest at the time, the teaching of the language or possibly my ineptitude towards the language.

    Despite my inablity I find the "dislike" (the mildest word that comes to mind) of the Irish language astounding.

    If you love the Irish language and can speak and promote it good for you.

    If you can't speak the language and are frustrated and dispair that the methods of teaching have not been more successful, I completely agree.

    If you are of the opinion that Irish should die out purely because you can't speak it, you need to get over it.

    If you think that it is a complete waste of tax payers money. There is more than enough tax being wasted in this country which might need addressing before trying to justify a case for trying to get rid of our native language. However that is a completly different thread.

    There isn't nearly 2 million irish speakers!! Theres no doubt about that.


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    #202
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yeah, and you were talking off-topic. :rolleyes:

    Anyway I think you are right when you say irish death is inevitable. There just is no reason for it's continued existence. Eventually with the increasing speed of gobalisation and the less important role ideals such as nationalism and tribalism play in peoples minds, irish will fall by the way-side never to be picked up again because there is simply no point.

    But yet, it's growing in speakers, especially in urban areas - which is evidence of language revival, rather than language extinction. We now have a vast range of Irish media, with relevant and modern programming. We also have a 20 year plan developed from the Government, to increase the amount of daily Irish speakers.

    Compare the Irish language today, to how it was in the 60's - 80's. I'd say that we are in a much stronger position to promote the language. While you are certainly entitled to your view that you don't support state-funding for the language - I don't think you can say that it's near extinction with a straight face to be honest.

    Learning Irish today is easier than it ever was. With improved access to the language, more and more people will take it up. And hopefully, with a revamped Irish curriculum - it will be more visible in society in 10-20 years, rather than lessened.


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    #203
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    karma_ wrote: »
    Globalisation is no excuse for erasing anything of a cultural nature, if anything it is more important than ever to hold on to such things.
    Not the way things work I'm afraid. Gobalisation makes other cultures and ideas more accessible to the people. Eventually it breaks down walls and unifies the people of the area so the cultural ideals that divided them in the past seem unimportant.

    It's not that people intentionally drop their culture. It's just that gobalisation makes the world a smaller place and local ideals less important.

    Which is exactly why N.Ireland will benifite hugely from continued gobalisation.


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    #204
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not the way things work I'm afraid. Gobalisation makes other cultures and ideas more accessible to the people. Eventually it breaks down walls and unifies the people of the area so the cultural ideals that divided them in the past seem unimportant.

    It's not that people intentionally drop their culture. It's just that gobalisation makes the world a smaller place and local ideals less important.

    In 500 years from now, the Irish language will still be here, and we'll still be hearing about Globalization. You know what Globalization has done? It has expanded the accessibility of the Irish language. Now, we have more and more people outside of Ireland learning the Irish language. 1000's of people around the world are learning it, because the internet has given them access to it.


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    #205
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    owenc wrote: »
    There isn't nearly 2 million irish speakers!! Theres no doubt about that.

    I agree however these are the only figures presented other than guesstimations.


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    #206
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    There isn't nearly 2 million irish speakers!! Theres no doubt about that.
    I have no doubt that there is that amount with a basic grasp of some Irish.


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    #207
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    dlofnep wrote: »
    In 500 years from now, the Irish language will still be here, and we'll still be hearing about Globalization. You know what Globalization has done? It has expanded the accessibility of the Irish language. Now, we have more and more people outside of Ireland learning the Irish language. 1000's of people around the world are learning it, because the internet has given them access to it.
    Exactly. There is even a small Gaeltacht in Canada.


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    #208
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I have no doubt that there is that amount with a basic grasp of some Irish.

    NO way!


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    #209
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    NO way!
    By basic I mean a few sentences etc...


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    #210
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    Having read the last 15 plus pages ( tough reading ) I found lots of opinion but little to back it up either way.

    For those interested in the only figures available to the number of Irish speakers refer to the following link to the 2006 census which indicate the numbers of Irish speakers has been underestimated in this thread.

    http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_9/tables_1-17.pdf
    Haha, 1,095,830 Irish speakers in 1991?? The people in the census office must be joking. That figure is very obviously wrong.
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    I don't speak Irish. I've been through the Irish education system. Maybe it was my dis-interest at the time, the teaching of the language or possibly my ineptitude towards the language.

    Despite my inablity I find the "dislike" (the mildest word that comes to mind) of the Irish language astounding.
    Why? If it is possible to like a language why is it astounding to dislike a language? Not that I dislike irish. I just find it pointless and a relic of a long gone time.
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    If you think that it is a complete waste of tax payers money. There is more than enough tax being wasted in this country which might need addressing before trying to justify a case for trying to get rid of our native language. However that is a completly different thread.
    Just because there are more other services wasting tax payers money it does not mean Irish isn't also a waste of tax money. Surely you can see how saying "yes irish is a waste but here are other wastes to deal with first", is a bit silly?
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    trying to get rid of our native language
    This gets on my nerves to no end. It is not our native language. It is your's if you want it to be but do not call it our native language.


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    #211
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Exactly. There is even a small Gaeltacht in Canada.

    lol do yous really think that irish will expand, it'll be gone within 500 years.


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