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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #212
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    lol do yous really think that irish will expand, it'll be gone within 500 years.
    It is expanding. Dont choke on that sand.


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    #213
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    lol do yous really think that irish will expand, it'll be gone within 500 years.

    Wishing thinking, aye Owen?


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    #214
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Wishing thinking, aye Owen?

    Whatever i'm not going to argue with yous two, you go on and on and on and its doing my head in, everytime i post a point yous go against it in some nationalist way.


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    #215
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Whatever i'm not going to argue with yous two, you go on and on and on and its doing my head in, everytime i post a point yous go against it in some nationalist way.
    Shock!!!! someone has refuted your points?

    Yes, the purpose of this forum is to be in uniform agreement with Owen.


    For Gods sake.


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    #216
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Wishing thinking, aye Owen?
    Not really. If you think five hundred years ago 90-95% of the population spoke irish. Now only 2-3% speak Irish.

    That is a fall of 88-93% in the space of five hundred years. I doubt it will be around in another five hundred.


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    #217
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,481 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It "exists" so it's not dead.

    But we should stop wasting so much taxpayer's money so a few people can feel smug about speaking it. It should also be removed as an entry requirement to uni/mandatory on leaving certificate.

    Can speak and read the language to a fairly high level, but haven't needed to since finishing the LC for what it's worth.

    Would much preferred to have spent the time getting more in depth with French or be able to learn Chinese/Japanese/Spanish/German instead.


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    #218
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not really. If you think five hundred years ago 90-95% of the population spoke irish. Now only 2-3% speak Irish.

    That is a fall of 88-93% in the space of five hundred years. I doubt it will be around in another five hundred.

    In some form it will be. Like we have now for physical artefacts in museums in 500 years I can envisage some form of cultural museums where things like languages are kept/stored/remembered.

    You can make the 500 years argument about any language also, English has also changed drastically in that time.


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    #219
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not really. If you think five hundred years ago 90-95% of the population spoke irish. Now only 2-3% speak Irish.

    That is a fall of 88-93% in the space of five hundred years. I doubt it will be around in another five hundred.

    The reason the language fell, was due to a number of factors. The language was banned in the national schools which meant less access to the language in education. The famine also killed off the majority of Irish speakers.

    I don't think you can predict the future of the language based on that. You need to look at the language in a modern context. More and more people are speaking it, there is improved access to irish language media, and a new plan to improve the way the language is taught. There is no evidence to suggest the language is going to get weaker. It is now seen as a progressive, and modern language - and society in most part is reacting to it as such.


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    #220
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Here we go again. You are wrong, it is not dead, there are thousands of native speakers.

    It's not a first language for anyone - I mean you have to speak English in this country or any other language - where will you get with Irish? Ah nowhere. Irish is a complete waste of taxpayers' money - we waste so much money translating stupid bills into Irish, who reads them? Probably just a handful.

    If you want to learn it, then fine - go do it on your own time, but I don't want my PAYE being spent on keeping a language going which is practically extinct anyway. We have plenty of other issues to deal with in Ireland that need the money rather than wasting it on the ****e that is the Irish language. I did Irish for 14 years in school and can I even remember how to speak it now? Hardly, how pointless is that. At least I can remember some French and German and they'd actually stand to me if I went to one of those countries. How on earth is Irish helpful to anyone? It's not. It's useless.


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    #221
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Haha, 1,095,830 Irish speakers in 1991?? The people in the census office must be joking. That figure is very obviously wrong.

    These are the figure presented by the Census. In your opinion the figures are wrong and when you present a source for your opinion I will agree completely.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Why? If it is possible to like a language why is it astounding to dislike a language? Not that I dislike irish. I just find it pointless and a relic of a long gone time.

    I selected the word dislike as the most moderate expression. It is not a relic of long time gone if it is still in use. It may not be in use by you or myself for that matter but it doesn't mean it is not in use.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Just because there are more other services wasting tax payers money it does not mean Irish isn't also a waste of tax money. Surely you can see how saying "yes irish is a waste but here are other wastes to deal with first", is a bit silly?

    I said "If" you think it is a waste of tax payers money. I don't have that opinion. I think the money could be better spent to promote the language.


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    This gets on my nerves to no end. It is not our native language. It is your's if you want it to be but do not call it our native language.

    If Ireland is your nationality Irish is your national language. English is the second language.

    This is enshrigned under Article 8 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN, otherwise known in English as the Irish Constitution.

    Article 8
    1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
    2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf


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    #222
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    If Ireland is your nationality Irish is your national language. English is the second language.

    This is enshrigned under Article 8 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN, otherwise known in English as the Irish Constitution.

    Article 8
    1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
    2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf

    How out of date is that article? When was it written, in the 1500s?

    Irish is not our official language, and English is not the second language - English is our first language. If that was the case, then why isn't everything in Irish? Sounds to me like that Article 8 needs to be updated, it's BS.


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    #223
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The reason the language fell, was due to a number of factors. The language was banned in the national schools which meant less access to the language in education. The famine also killed off the majority of Irish speakers.

    I don't think you can predict the future of the language based on that. You need to look at the language in a modern context. More and more people are speaking it, there is improved access to irish language media, and a new plan to improve the way the language is taught. There is no evidence to suggest the language is going to get weaker. It is now seen as a progressive, and modern language - and society in most part is reacting to it as such.
    There was no indication that irish would die out five hundred years ago either but it more or less has now. Thing is we can't see the future. Maybe the language will by some miracle have a total revival and my great grand-daughter will speak Irish natively just like my great grand-father did, (thank you 1911 census). But I seriously doubt it.

    But just since you mention the new plan for Irish education here in the south I honestly think it is the worst thing they could possibly do. As a person who did his leaving cert this year I can honestly tell you the pressure before the Irish oral exam is far worse then the pressure before the actual exam. I believe resting 40% of the students results on a 15 minute exam is not only blatently mean but rather un-fair also.


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    #224
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    These are the figure presented by the Census. In your opinion the figures are wrong and when you present a source for your opinion I will agree completely.




    I selected the word dislike as the most moderate expression. It is not a relic of long time gone if it is still in use. It may not be in use by you or myself for that matter but it doesn't mean it is not in use.




    I said "If" you think it is a waste of tax payers money. I don't have that opinion. I think the money could be better spent to promote the language.





    If Ireland is your nationality Irish is your national language. English is the second language.

    This is enshrigned under Article 8 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN, otherwise known in English as the Irish Constitution.

    Article 8
    1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
    2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf

    They were born and bread to a english speaking family so their native language is english and you cannot tell them otherwise.


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    #225
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There was no indication that irish would die out five hundred years ago either but it more or less has now. Thing is we can't see the future. Maybe the language will by some miracle have a total revival and my great grand-daughter will speak Irish natively just like my great grand-father did, (thank you 1911 census). But I seriously doubt it.

    But just since you mention the new plan for Irish education here in the south I honestly think it is the worst thing they could possibly do. As a person who did his leaving cert this year I can honestly tell you the pressure before the Irish oral exam is far worse then the pressure before the actual exam. I believe resting 40% of the students results on a 15 minute exam is not only blatently mean but rather un-fair also.
    I did my LC this year too, and I felt that the aural and oral were the least stressful part of the exam. Higher or ordinary?


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    #226
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    They were born and bread to a english speaking family so their native language is english.
    The first language is Irish. It says so in the constitution.


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    #227
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    These are the figure presented by the Census. In your opinion the figures are wrong and when you present a source for your opinion I will agree completely.
    So you are willing to believe every piece of bullshít that comes from the governments mouth? No wonder you support the continued waste of tax-payers money.
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    I selected the word dislike as the most moderate expression. It is not a relic of long time gone if it is still in use. It may not be in use by you or myself for that matter but it doesn't mean it is not in use.
    But it is still a relic. A relic in use is still a relic.
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    I said "If" you think it is a waste of tax payers money. I don't have that opinion. I think the money could be better spent to promote the language.
    Ok then can you give me pragmatic reasons why Irish is worth every penny it recieves? And notice I wrote pragmatic.
    CoalBucket wrote: »
    If Ireland is your nationality Irish is your national language. English is the second language.

    This is enshrigned under Article 8 of BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN, otherwise known in English as the Irish Constitution.

    Article 8
    1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
    2. The English language is recognised as a second official language.

    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland.pdf
    I know what is wrote in the constitution thanks. I have a copy as home. Either way the language of the state is not my native language. Ok?


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    #228
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The first language is Irish. It says so in the constitution.

    Their language is english. Its stupid saying that the first language is irish whenever 100,000 only speak it when well over 4 million speak english.


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    #229
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I did my LC this year too, and I felt that the aural and oral were the least stressful part of the exam. Higher or ordinary?
    You're crazy.


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    #230
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Their language is english. Its stupid saying that the first language is irish whenever 100,000 only speak it when well over 4 million speak english.
    So then you feel the constitution is stupid then.


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    #231
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The first language is Irish. It says so in the constitution.
    It could say in the constitution that I am a cloud. That doesn't mean I am a cloud.


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    #232
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You're crazy.
    Ha, not at all. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw paper 2, give me the oral any day!


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    #233
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So then you feel the constitution is stupid then.
    Don't put words in his mouth.


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    #234
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    How out of date is that article? When was it written, in the 1500s?

    No it was enacted by the people of Ireland in 1937. It's most recent ammendment was in 2004.
    tinkerbell wrote: »
    Irish is not our official language, and English is not the second language - English is our first language.

    Em again The Constitution of the state disagrees.
    tinkerbell wrote: »
    If that was the case, then why isn't everything in Irish?

    Indeed :)
    tinkerbell wrote: »
    Sounds to me like that Article 8 needs to be updated, it's BS.

    Which other articles of the constitution do you think are Bulls*** ?


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    #235
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So then you feel the constitution is stupid then.

    Yes its the most i****** thing i've seen in my life.


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    #236
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    give me the oral any day!
    :pac:


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    #237
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    ^^ Yep. If the constitution is right then why are all our tv shows in English? Why is most of RTE programming in English? Why doesn't Brian Cowen address the nation in just Irish and not English?

    Just because the constitution says it's the native language, doesn't mean it's right - it's a whole load of BS that's what it is!


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    #238
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Don't put words in his mouth.
    owenc wrote: »
    Yes its the most idiotic thing i've seen in my life.

    Lucky guess I think.....


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    #239
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    :pac:
    Haha, either way it was better than paper 2!


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    #240
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Lucky guess I think.....

    Are you trying to get me banned.


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    #241
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    Which other articles of the constitution do you think are Bulls*** ?
    Dunno, I have no interest in reading the constitution - none at all. So all I've read on it is what quoted here as Article 8.

    So maybe I'd think more of it was BS if I actually read the thing - but that ain't likely to happen.

    I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I read it, I don't - doesn't bother me in the least :)


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