Gardai, Government, Privately owned Corporations. Enslavement

drkpower · 08-07-2010 12:27pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Any chance of toning down on the arseholey comments. This is one of the more interesting threads here and your spoiling it.

Sure; just as soon as Mahatma, Uprising or anyone else actually makes a bit of sense. Ye might be interested in nonsense but somebody needs to direct you to the facts once in a while.

You might also direct this to Uprising who was threatening violence earlier - but that's not 'arseholey' is it?

uprising2 · 08-07-2010 1:19pm

drkpower wrote: »

Sure; just as soon as Mahatma, Uprising or anyone else actually makes a bit of sense. Ye might be interested in nonsense but somebody needs to direct you to the facts once in a while.

You might also direct this to Uprising who was threatening violence earlier - but that's not 'arseholey' is it?

Your imagination does not count as fact, you have directed nobody towards any fact.

What I was in court for is NOT punishable with prison, its punishable by fine.
Criminal fines and Road traffic fines are not the same.

I went to prison for defaulting on fines, not for the offence's that got me the fines.

Move away from jail in Fines Bill:D:D:D
The Fines Bill provides alternatives to imprisonment for fine defaulters and will allow the courts service to “name and shame” defaulters on a regular basis.
Moreover, new procedures will now mean that “when a court imposes a fine for a criminal offence it will also appoint a receiver to recover the fine or to seize and sell property from the offender to the value of the fine”, Mr Ahern said.
During the report stages of the Bill, Mr Ahern said “a total of 75 per cent of the fines in the District Court are for road traffic offences, so if the person who has offended owns a car then that could be taken in lieu of the fine”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0528/breaking37.html

Now it looks like I won't be returning to prison for not paying my fines, great news, and if I register my car in my wife's name then I don't own a car, so nothing to take from me, they may "NAME AND SHAME" me:D.

Now drkpower please try understand you've been talking through your hole all along, it may be hard to swallow for you at this stage, but it's fact, real fact.

humanji · 08-07-2010 1:51pm

drkpower wrote: »

Sure; just as soon as Mahatma, Uprising or anyone else actually makes a bit of sense. Ye might be interested in nonsense but somebody needs to direct you to the facts once in a while.

You might also direct this to Uprising who was threatening violence earlier - but that's not 'arseholey' is it?

I was kind of hoping that you'd simply see good sense in what Brown Bomber said. Stop being aggressive and condescending to others. That goes for everyone.

drkpower · 08-07-2010 1:55pm

uprising2 wrote: »

I went to prison for defaulting on fines, not for the offence's that got me the fines.

That may be true but failing to pay a fine is a criminal offence.
And every motor offence is a criminal offence.

So you have a criminal record (and a record of a custodial sentence) in respect of your failure to pay the fine. And (unless you either paid the fixed penalty notice or the Probation Act was appplied) you have a criminal record in respect of your motoring offences.

What part of this labyrinthine conundrum do you fail to understand? You might understand it if I link to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_ticket#Ireland
Ireland
In the Republic of Ireland, a traffic ticket (which is mailed out to the driver) is in the form of a notice alleging that some crime — traffic offences are all criminal offences — has been committed, but stating that if a payment of a certain amount is made to An Garda Síochána within 28 days, or the amount increased by 50% is paid within 56 days, the driver will not be prosecuted for the alleged offence. Some tickets carry penalty points as well as the fine.

Or perhaps from the page you linked to earlier....:D
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-offences/driving_offences
If the fixed charge notice is paid within the legal time limits and court proceedings are not commenced you will not have a criminal record in respect of the offence.

So if you pay the fixed penatly notice, you wont have a criminal record; the obvious implication being that if you dont, you will have a criminal record. Seriously, do you usually have this much difficulty in understanding basic concepts? Do you need some extra help going to the shops and counting change and such like?

uprising2 · 08-07-2010 2:19pm

drkpower wrote: »

That may be true but failing to pay a fine is a criminal offence.
And every motor offence is a criminal offence.

So you have a criminal record (and a record of a custodial sentence) in respect of your failure to pay the fine. And (unless you either paid the fixed penalty notice or the Probation Act was appplied) you have a criminal record in respect of your motoring offences.

What part of this labyrinthine conundrum do you fail to understand? You might understand it if I link to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Traffic_ticket&oldid=372388695#Ireland
Ireland
In the Republic of Ireland, a traffic ticket (which is mailed out to the driver) is in the form of a notice alleging that some crime — traffic offences are all criminal offences — has been committed, but stating that if a payment of a certain amount is made to An Garda Síochána within 28 days, or the amount increased by 50% is paid within 56 days, the driver will not be prosecuted for the alleged offence. Some tickets carry penalty points as well as the fine.

Or perhaps from the page you linked to earlier....:D
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-offences/driving_offences
If the fixed charge notice is paid within the legal time limits and court proceedings are not commenced you will not have a criminal record in respect of the offence.

So if you pay the fixed penatly notice, you wont have a criminal record; the obvious implication being that if you dont, you will have a criminal record. Seriously, do you usually have this much difficulty in understanding basic concepts? Do you need some extra help going to the shops and counting change and such like?

Recheck that wiki page:D, it says

In the Republic of Ireland, a traffic ticket (which is mailed out to the driver) is in the form of a notice alleging that some crime — traffic offences are not at all criminal offences

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Traffic_ticket&oldid=372388695#Ireland

Mahatma coat · 08-07-2010 2:24pm

that is the key point Uprising, the fine is an invitation to contract

Yitzhak Rabin · 08-07-2010 2:26pm

uprising2 wrote: »

Recheck that wiki page:D, it says

I think at this stage the agrument can be summed up as:

Drkpower: You have a criminal record

Uprising2: No I don't

Can we just drop it and move on. I think by now, only the two of ye give a fvck about whether or not you have a criminal record, so just take it to PM will yis!

drkpower · 08-07-2010 2:32pm

uprising2 wrote: »

Recheck that wiki page:D, it says

Because you just edited it; 13:27, 8 July 2010 86.45.60.78 (talk) (19,688 bytes) (→Ireland) (undo)

You really are a sad individual.

Yitzhak Rabin · 08-07-2010 2:38pm

drkpower wrote: »

Because you just edited it; 13:27, 8 July 2010 86.45.60.78 (talk) (19,688 bytes) (→Ireland) (undo)

You really are a sad individual.

I think he was just making the point that its not an authoritative source, given you can just change it to suit yourself.

Also given that the article was edited today at 13:15, and you linked to it at 13:55, isn't it possible you stuck in that bit to start with?

drkpower · 08-07-2010 2:48pm

yekahs wrote: »

I think he was just making the point that its not an authoritative source, given you can just change it to suit yourself.

Also given that the article was edited today at 13:15, and you linked to it at 13:55, isn't it possible you stuck in that bit to start with?

Of course it is possible; but i have linked to a number of different sources to make the (fairly obvious) assertion that road traffic offences are criminal offences; which they are.

Uprising has countered that by saying 'no they arent'.:rolleyes:

Who do you think edited it? And what does resorting to that kind of siliness say about that person?

drkpower · 08-07-2010 2:55pm

I also like the way his edit is awful English. Instead of adding one word to change it to ' traffic offences are not all criminal offences', he actually makes a hash of it and says 'traffic offences are not at all criminal offences'; which doesnt make a whole lot of sense.....:D:D

Hohohoho.

Di0genes · 08-07-2010 2:56pm

Mahatma coat wrote: »

that is the key point Uprising, the fine is an invitation to contract

No it isn't. They're not asking you to pay, they're telling you to pay.

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 3:07pm

A bill ask's you to pay, you don't recieve a bill, you recieve a notice (a fine). It ask's the" legal fiction" to contract.
In effect, the notice is asking you to represent the legal fiction entity they have created.

robtri · 08-07-2010 3:13pm

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

A bill ask's you to pay, you don't recieve a bill, you recieve a notice (a fine). It ask's the" legal fiction" to contract.
In effect, the notice is asking you to represent the legal fiction entity they have created.

no its a fine to the driver, not a legal fiction, the person doing the driving to pay for their mistakes.

Yitzhak Rabin · 08-07-2010 3:17pm

drkpower wrote: »

Of course it is possible; but i have linked to a number of different sources to make the (fairly obvious) assertion that road traffic offences are criminal offences; which they are.

Uprising has countered that by saying 'no they arent'.:rolleyes:

Who do you think edited it? And what does resorting to that kind of siliness say about that person?

I think its obvious Uprising2 edited it. I think his use of the

smilie gave the game away.

But in my opinion, seeing as it was edited by someone in Ireland, minutes before you linked to it, that you stuck the "-traffic offences are all criminal offences-" bit in there( which by the way is bad grammar too, it should be "all traffic offences are criminal offences")

But, I agree with your overall point that traffic offences are criminal offences.

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 3:20pm

robtri wrote: »

no its a fine to the driver, not a legal fiction, the person doing the driving to pay for their mistakes.

No, it's a fine to the strawman the have created.

MR JOHN DOE

Is your name "MR" or "ALL CAPITALS" ?

Yitzhak Rabin · 08-07-2010 3:23pm

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

No, it's a fine to the strawman the have created.

MR JOHN DOE

Is your name "MR" or "ALL CAPITALS" ?

When I write it is all capitals, yes.

What business have "freemen" on the roads anyway, if they're not paying for them?

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 3:27pm

yekahs wrote: »

When I write it is all capitals, yes.

Thats your choice. Is your name Mr ?

yekahs wrote: »

What business have "freemen" on the roads anyway, if they're not paying for them?

You don't think you have the right to freely travel acrosss your land without being taxed ?

Yitzhak Rabin · 08-07-2010 3:33pm

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Thats your choice. Is your name Mr ?

Thats my title yes (Well actually its Lt), but for the sake of argument, yes.

You don't think you have the right to freely travel acrosss your land without being taxed ?

Absolutely not.

If you won't pay for the maintenance and upkeep of the roads, you have no business on them. To do so, is free-loading!

drkpower · 08-07-2010 3:35pm

yekahs wrote: »

I think its obvious Uprising2 edited it. I think his use of the smilie gave the game away.

But in my opinion, seeing as it was edited by someone in Ireland, minutes before you linked to it, that you stuck the "-traffic offences are all criminal offences-" bit in there( which by the way is bad grammar too, it should be "all traffic offences are criminal offences")

But, I agree with your overall point that traffic offences are criminal offences.

Perhaps before you express your opinion (and criticising my grammar..), maybe you should have looked at what the edit was - there was no edit today inserting "-traffic offences are all criminal offences-". Whenever that edit was inserted (or perhaps that was in the orginial article), it wasnt today. Im presuming the timing discrepancy is because they use CET. So unless I made that edit months/years ago in preparation for this conversation, it wasnt me....

Of course the page now also reads "Also there is a wanker called drkpower, knows nothing about this".....:eek::D What a sad little man.

Mahatma coat · 08-07-2010 3:37pm

Di0genes wrote: »

No it isn't. They're not asking you to pay, they're telling you to pay.

No yer wrong, but anyway this is going round in circles.

Lads what we need to do is actually look at the definitions of the words they use

Mahatma coat · 08-07-2010 3:39pm

eh Freemen still pay for the roads with Car Tax and stuff, Business get taxed and we pay VAT/GST on stuff, we just exercise our right to not get Fvcked over more than the shee[;e:D

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 3:40pm

yekahs wrote: »

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Thats your choice. Is your name Mr ?

Thats my title yes (Well actually its Lt), but for the sake of argument, yes.

Absolutely not.

If you won't pay for the maintenance and upkeep of the roads, you have no business on them. To do so, is free-loading!

Does the person who pays no road tax have the right to walk or cycle on the road ? :eek:

Would you also consider the walker or cyclist free-loaders ?

robtri · 08-07-2010 3:46pm

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

No, it's a fine to the strawman the have created.

MR JOHN DOE

Is your name "MR" or "ALL CAPITALS" ?

Nope and IIRC the last fine i recieved for speeding had my name written, there was no MR on the actual fine section. the letter was addressed to me as the registered owner asking me to nominate who pays the fine and who recieves the penalty point, they made no reference to a "strawman" ...

EDIT:
Just for refereence here is a copy of a speeding fine handed out, sorry for bad quality all i could find on google, very similiar layout to what i got, as you can see no MR or is the name in capitals...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/3001269383_cba09718ec_m.jpg

So how does a strawman work again and fine on this????

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 3:52pm

robtri wrote: »

Nope and IIRC the last fine i recieved for speeding had my name written, there was no MR on the actual fine section. the letter was addressed to me as the registered owner asking me to nominate who pays the fine and who recieves the penalty point, they made no reference to a "strawman" ...

I find that extremely difficult to believe, sorry.

robtri · 08-07-2010 3:53pm

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

I find that extremely difficult to believe, sorry.

see edit above for further reference...

uprising2 · 08-07-2010 3:55pm

robtri wrote: »

see edit above for further reference...

Got a microscope?

robtri · 08-07-2010 3:57pm

uprising2 wrote: »

Got a microscope?

as i said apologies for the bad copy ...

TalkieWalkie · 08-07-2010 4:01pm

Move to strike that evidence from the record - substained

Must have come in the worlds smallest envelope.

Mahatma coat · 08-07-2010 4:02pm

if your name is written in all capitals then thats the Strawman

Gardai, Government, Privately owned Corporations. Enslavement

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