Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Chivito550

Stephen15 wrote: »

In fairness one of the good points about Dublin's public transport system is you can get to that you can get to the actual cc by oveground rail I know Hueston involves a bus/luas journey but most cities I've been have had their rail terminuses including suburban rail a good bit out of the cc but you hop on a good bus/tram/metro to get to the actual cc.

Most cities the size of Dublin have their main train station right in the city centre. Our main train station is not.

Jamie2k9

Chivito550 wrote: »

Most cities the size of Dublin have their main train station right in the city centre. Our main train station is not.

Connolly/Pearse are considered the main stations and they are both central. I don't know how much more central you want things?

Heuston is still pretty central, just because everything is not on O'Connal Bridge doesn't mean its not central.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

You don't seem to like actual issues being pointed out

Closing the South entrance to Tara reduces it's useful catchment area significantly. It is a longer walk as a result to the main shopping and entertainment areas of the southside. It needs to stay open longer or all hours and consistently too

With respect I just don't think that would a deal breaker for most people being honest about it viz-a-viz using Tara Street Station -v- paying extra to use the LUAS. That's all.

And I also didn't say it shouldn't open for longer.

D.L.R.

I expect the main punters on the Broombridge stretch will be former bus users in Phibsboro and Cabra.

Don't see Broombridge interchange being all that busy, its not like this is a metro line meeting a Dart line, its a slow tram meeting an infrequent commuter service.

Stephen15

D.L.R. wrote: »

Don't see Broombridge interchange being all that busy, its not like this is a metro line meeting a Dart line, its a slow tram meeting an infrequent commuter service.

And that is why the Maynooth line needs to be electrified

PhoenixParker

Stephen15 wrote: »

And that is why the Maynooth line needs to be electrified

If they started with taking out the people operated rail crossings I'd be happy, preferably replacing them with grade separated ones, but in a pinch I'll take electric gates.

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

Most cities the size of Dublin have their main train station right in the city centre. Our main train station is not.

In many cities, the rail line was brought to the closest possible location to the centre, Dublin had four stations close to the centre at one time, two are now closed.
I can't think of any major cities that had a rail line driven through the centre, but I can think of many that grew around the station. So the station became a central location in the city. Even cities like London have the railway stations on the edges of the "city".

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

In many cities, the rail line was brought to the closest possible location to the centre, Dublin had four stations close to the centre at one time, two are now closed.
I can't think of any major cities that had a rail line driven through the centre, but I can think of many that grew around the station. So the station became a central location in the city. Even cities like London have the railway stations on the edges of the "city".

Does not Thames Link pass through London?

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect I just don't think that would a deal breaker for most people being honest about it viz-a-viz using Tara Street Station -v- paying extra to use the LUAS. That's all.

And I also didn't say it shouldn't open for longer.

Its more than long enough for people to pay the Leap90 difference to not walk it

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does not Thames Link pass through London?

Mostly under London, but we're talking about surface rail.

Zebra3

Chivito550 wrote: »

So somebody living between Broombridge and Clonsilla who is studying in DIT or who is working at Stephen's Green/Harcourt/Charlement or working in Sandyford without the luxury of owning a car wouldn't use this connection? It's by far a better connection than any bus connections in this city anyway.

Of course some people will use it, just pointing out that the reality of the change is not as attractive as it can look on a map.

Chivito550

Zebra3 wrote: »

Of course some people will use it, just pointing out that the reality of the change is not as attractive as it can look on a map.

Of course. But having the interchange is a hell of a lot better than not having it, so not really sure why people are constantly moaning about it. If only a small portion of people use the interchange in the immediate future that is still better than the LUAS not connecting with the Maynooth line at all.

GerardKeating

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin had four stations close to the centre at one time, two are now closed.

More that four perhaps

1. North Wall
2. Connolly Station
3. Harcourt Street
4. BroadStone
5. Pearse Station
6. Heuston Station

LXFlyer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Of course. But having the interchange is a hell of a lot better than not having it, so not really sure why people are constantly moaning about it. If only a small portion of people use the interchange in the immediate future that is still better than the LUAS not connecting with the Maynooth line at all.

I am guessing that is aimed at me.

As I've consistently made clear I'm not "moaning" about the ability to interchange at Broombridge, it is of course a good thing - it's a welcome addition to the network.

But what I have done is said, that for reasonably valid reasons, I think are some people here have been overestimating the numbers that will use it as an interchange. That's all.

The reasons being:

- The fare penalty (2 LUAS fare zones on top of the rail fare less EUR 1.00 LEAP90 discount if travelling to points in the city centre beyond DIT);

- The uncertainty of making connections if travelling to the M3 branch or beyond Maynooth at peak times (people will be going for specifically timed trains in those cases, and as such it will be difficult to judge what time to be on a tram and if they miss their train they may have a long wait at a not very appealing location)

- The poor off-peak Maynooth line timetable (currently hourly but possibly may be half-hourly next year)

- Poor location to have to wait if you miss a train (no passenger facilities or alternatives such as bus routes available)

I don't doubt a reasonable number of people will use it to interchange at peak times, particularly going to locations in the north inner city, but my personal opinion is that the numbers won't be as high as some people think. I may be proved wrong, but that's my hunch.

I think that I'm entitled to point those factors out - it's not "moaning" about it as you seem to suggest - it's just pointing out some practical realities that will cause people to think twice about it.

Stephen15

GerardKeating wrote: »

More that four perhaps

1. North Wall
2. Connolly Station
3. Harcourt Street
4. BroadStone
5. Pearse Station
6. Heuston Station

Most cities I've been to only have only one large main station and then a number of secondary stations.

GerardKeating

Stephen15 wrote: »

Most cìties I've been to only have only one large main station and then a number of secondary stations.

London and Paris are exceptions then?, both have (or had) many Train Termini, I think Paris has eight, London had over 20 Terminal stations are one point.

Stephen15

GerardKeating wrote: »

London and Paris are exceptions then?, both have (or had) many Train Termini, I think Paris has eight, London had over 20 Terminal stations are one point.

Yes they are

KCAccidental

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes they are

Budapest has 4

Berlin has 3 or 4

Madrid has 2

it's a historical thing.

LeinsterDub

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/luas-may-make-areas-of-dublin-inaccessible-to-cyclists-1.3141052

Busy areas of Dublin city such as Henry Street may become virtually inaccessible to cyclists when Luas Cross City starts operating, according to a National Transport Authority (NTA) draft report.

It warns that a failure to act on the shortcomings it identifies would have “implications for the safety of cyclists and pedestrians”

Awh lads you had 10 years to sort this out!

lucernarian

I saw that earlier - what I don't get is that as Henry Street is a pedestrian street, it shouldn't be accessible to cyclists in the first place?

MJohnston

lucernarian wrote: »

I saw that earlier - what I don't get is that as Henry Street is a pedestrian street, it shouldn't be accessible to cyclists in the first place?

Piece is behind paywall, but I presume it means that cyclists won't be able to get near Henry Street - as in they won't be able to cycle on O'Connell Street with the Luas operating. Not about them cycling on Henry St.

Luas will definitely make things a lot more dangerous here for cyclists, not that OCS was ever particularly safe.

Muahahaha

But sure there will still be a bus lane up OConnell St and cyclists can use that to get to Henry St. Just not by cycling on the Luas tracks. Nassau, Dawson & the end of Grafton St could be a different story. Though if they are letting taxis use that stretch then Id imagine many cyclists will too.

MJohnston

OCS bus lane is generally more of a bus parking spot, from the perspective of cyclists. The bus lane there was a dangerous place to be before the Luas works began, never mind now. Ultimately if we were a country that did cycling infrastructure, there's plenty of footpath space on OCS for that, but nah.

Stephen15

MJohnston wrote: »

Piece is behind paywall, but I presume it means that cyclists won't be able to get near Henry Street - as in they won't be able to cycle on O'Connell Street with the Luas operating. Not about them cycling on Henry St.

Luas will definitely make things a lot more dangerous here for cyclists, not that OCS was ever particularly safe.

And how will this be policed?

MJohnston

Stephen15 wrote: »

And how will this be policed?

What?

Stephen15

MJohnston wrote: »

What?

How are cyclists going to be prevented from cycling on OCS or Henry Street will the Guards be enforcing it.

MJohnston

Stephen15 wrote: »

How are cyclists going to be prevented from cycling on OCS or Henry Street will the Guards be enforcing it.

Who said anything about cyclists being prevented from cycling on OCS?

Regarding Henry Street, nothing is changing there, so whatever current enforcement there is.

Quackster

The issue with OC St northbound is the service track linking the two Luas lines which curves left from OC St onto Abbey St and the risk of cyclists' tyres getting caught in the grooves of said service track as they won't be crossing this track at right angles.

This issue doesn't arise yet as these grooves are temporarily filled in.

Similar issue will arise elsewhere, particularly OC St/Parnell St and Marlborough St/Abbey St junctions.

Stephen15

MJohnston wrote: »

Who said anything about cyclists being prevented from cycling on OCS?

Regarding Henry Street, nothing is changing there, so whatever current enforcement there is.

I don't really understand what you were trying to say. If there's going to be no change then what are you going on about?

MJohnston

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't really understand what you were trying to say. If there's going to be no change then what are you going on about?

Try reading the thread again - I'm responding to the article which was linked. The opening of Luas Cross City, particularly the track grooves being un-filled, will lead to O'Connell Street becoming much more dangerous for cyclists and arguably stopping a lot of them from accessing it, and therefore Henry Street. No additional laws, no Garda barricades or anything like that, just a severe decrease in bicycle accessibility.

Wouldn't be so much of a problem if the one-way system didn't make alternate routes extremely out of the way for cyclists.