Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

1huge1

One of the secondary benefits to the Luas cross city was to develop areas of the North inner city, obviously its far too early to have made much of a difference, but with the depot out in Broombridge, I would expect a lot more security and activity in that area in particular, has any regular commuters from there (even passing by on Irish rail) noticed an improvement?

Zebra3

Not aware of any stats but once the development of the derelict land beside the Irish Rail station started, whatever groups of people hung around and were tempted to throw stuff at the trains had to move on.

Whether they’ve found new people to piss off elsewhere or not I don’t know, but been quite a while since I’ve gone through there on a train and had something come through or even hit a window.

roadmaster

I seen on the train this morning connellys have finished the luas and IR tie in. Very nice and tidy job. I hope irish rail plan to tidy up there two platforms as they still look RAF

fxotoole

roadmaster wrote: »

I seen on the train this morning connellys have finished the luas and IR tie in. Very nice and tidy job. I hope irish rail plan to tidy up there two platforms as they still look RAF

Are you talking about the Broombridge platform that connects the train and Luas?

Does anyone have idea when the passenger bridge will open? When I get the train in the morning I change from train to Luas, but it’s a pain in the hole having to take the long way around (over the bridge). I can’t understand what the delay is with opening the passenger walkway

Jamie2k9

Notice the poorly installed set of crossovers at the SSG spur, the speed restriction in place. Wonder if they plan to address the problem.

handlemaster

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not aware of any stats but once the development of the derelict land beside the Irish Rail station started, whatever groups of people hung around and were tempted to throw stuff at the trains had to move on.

Whether they’ve found new people to piss off elsewhere or not I don’t know, but been quite a while since I’ve gone through there on a train and had something come through or even hit a window.

Want a waste of tax payers money these people are.

Stephen15

So after all the media scaremongering a couple of months ago all appears to be rosy in the garden.

Jamie2k9

Looks like a complehe signal failure at Trinity entrance today. 9 minutes to clear trams at the junction.

Idbatterim

with the sheer amount of office , hotel, student accomodation and to a lesser extent, residential construction going on. Are there quick fixes they will be able to do, to up system capacity, before or IF we every get metro link? Id say it will be under massive strain again come the autumn...

like turning half them around at SSG that come in from the southside? giving them absolute priority at everything other than crucial junctions etc? increasing the city centre speed limits they can travel at...

bk

Idbatterim wrote: »

with the sheer amount of office , hotel, student accomodation and to a lesser extent, residential construction going on. Are there quick fixes they will be able to do, to up system capacity, before or IF we every get metro link? Id say it will be under massive strain again come the autumn...

like turning half them around at SSG that come in from the southside? giving them absolute priority at everything other than crucial junctions etc? increasing the city centre speed limits they can travel at...

Well the 7 new 55m trams should now be in operation and they are the main approach to increasing capacity. I believe there is also talk of extending some of the older trams to 55m too.

Of course having actual real enforcement at junctions in the city center might help too, but realistically Luas really is reaching the max of what can be achieved with it.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Well the 7 new 55m trams should now be in operation and they are the main approach to increasing capacity. I believe there is also talk of extending some of the older trams to 55m too.

All of the other 26 trams on the Green Line are being extended to 55m.

In addition there are 8 more trams on order.

CatInABox

bk wrote: »

Of course having actual real enforcement at junctions in the city center might help too, but realistically Luas really is reaching the max of what can be achieved with it.

The NTA are aware of the lack of enforcement when it comes to junctions and bus lanes, and recently said that this was going to be a legislative problem. Presumably this means they'll ask the government to look at it.

Now, I only read that the other day, but I've no idea where now. S***e.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

All of the other 26 trams on the Green Line are being extended to 55m.

In addition there are 8 more trams on order.

When were the extra 8 ordered?

Idbatterim

the worse the overcrowding becomes, the more they will be forced to actually do something, like introduce a realistic capacity metro out to swords etc and upgrading the green line.The last thing we need is another recession sinking the plans and those idiots, morons, telling us, that the bus will do the job, which is easily believable in banana republic! :rolleyes:

devnull

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

When were the extra 8 ordered?

At the same time that the order was placed to lengthen the existing trams.

Stephen15

Idbatterim wrote: »

the worse the overcrowding becomes, the more they will be forced to actually do something, like introduce a realistic capacity metro out to swords etc and upgrading the green line.The last thing we need is another recession sinking the plans and those idiots, morons, telling us, that the bus will do the job, which is easily believable in banana republic! :rolleyes:

We'll have to wait for the Metro to be given a railway order first.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

At the same time that the order was placed to lengthen the existing trams.

I completely missed that info of the extra 8, any idea when they are due to arrive?

cgcsb

Well ABP are making a decision on college green shortly which will mean a green light for closing the green to east-west traffic and making Parliament st a bus only street

The changes will mean a car ban on Bachelors walk, Aston Quay and George's street. All of which has to be in place before the bus connects change over next year.

How this might be enforced is another issue, a camera based solution is required.

Muahahaha

If Parliament St goes bus only does that mean Capel St will too? Or are northbound buses from Parliament St going to cross the bridge and turn right onto the quays?

cgcsb

The plan is for them to turn right onto the quays.

My personal preference would be for Capel St to become a 2 way bus only street which would allow some routes a faster trip through the City Centre and relieve the congestion we're going to face when every N-S bus spine in Dublin goes through O'Connell st.

Muahahaha

Yeah Capel St is crying out for an upgrade and making it buses only would facilitate that. But I doubt DCC will allow that that to happen easily, they must have 100+ car parking spaces along Capel St that would have to go.

jd

cgcsb wrote: »

The plan is for them to turn right onto the quays.

My personal preference would be for Capel St to become a 2 way bus only street which would allow some routes a faster trip through the City Centre and relieve the congestion we're going to face when every N-S bus spine in Dublin goes through O'Connell st.

E and F Spines will use O'Connell Street. A will use Gardiner Street. B, C and D will used the quays. G will go down Dame Street, and terminate before the proposed College Greeen Plaza.

cgcsb

jd wrote: »

E and F Spines will use O'Connell Street. A will use Gardiner Street. B, C and D will used the quays. G will go down Dame Street, and terminate before the proposed College Greeen Plaza.

Not strictly true, A, B, C and D will all share the quays between Capel St and Customs House. That means a bus every couple of seconds, manageable, assuming you have an effective management system in place and enough restrictions on cars. There's potential for bus congestion though. Diverting A via capel st would improve access to western parts of the city centre and relive some of the pressure on the quays. Likewise E could use Church St. It'd mean a lot more km of bus lanes but that's a good thing.

L1011

If you look at the NTA infrastructure plans, the C spine predecessor routes were shown as going up Mount Brown and Thomas Street not the Quays once bus priority measures had been done

Kevtherev1

I went up earlier today on the luas to Broombridge. All the construction and refurbishment of Broombridge rail station is now completed and open.


A really great job has been done, the new pedestrian rail bridge is open with lifts. New paths and landscaped foliage just growing. It looks great, leap card validators also now available at station for jumping on the IR trains. Very easy and quick now to transfer between Luas and Irish Rail. Check it out

L1011

People are beginning to interchange more and more at Broombridge but some trains, M3 Parkway services particularly, are at crush loading when they get there. Ten or so people were having to force themselves onboard one there. This massively compromises the usability of the service.


The Maynooth line isn't likely to get the bulk of the stock released when the 2700s come back but it could probably use all of it and more. Electrification tenders and the hybrid tender have to go out this year. You'd think it'd be coming up as a serious issue for the Taoiseach on home ground at this stage.

I still believe that the transport authorities missed a golden opportunity at the start of this build.
They should have reopened Broadstone Railway station and have the Luas terminus in front of the station, trains from the north and west then would have terminated at a station that was connected to the city via a tram line.
This would have eased congestion on the east coast lines.

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

I still believe that the transport authorities missed a golden opportunity at the start of this build.
They should have reopened Broadstone Railway station and have the Luas terminus in front of the station, trains from the north and west then would have terminated at a station that was connected to the city via a tram line.
This would have eased congestion on the east coast lines.

Your idea would mean that the proposed LUAS to Finglas wouldn’t be possible and would remove the ability to connect directly at Connolly with other rail services.

The vast majority of trains serve Broombridge which means that the connection with LUAS is already made.

Frankly I don’t really see the merit in it - it would restrict connectivity even more.

LXFlyer

LXFlyer wrote: »

Your idea would mean that the proposed LUAS to Finglas wouldn’t be possible and would remove the ability to connect directly at Connolly with other rail services.

The vast majority of trains serve Broombridge which means that the connection with LUAS is already made.

Frankly I don’t really see the merit in it - it would restrict connectivity even more.

Not at all, you just send the tram line up the R108 straight up to the Airport via Ballymun. As for other connecting services, simply change at one of the commuter stations west of Broombridge or at Broombriodge.

My suggestion would relieve Connoly of much of the congestion by using Broadstone as a terminus for some of the traffic from the west, including Galway & Westport/Ballina if the Athlone to Mullingar line is reinstated. Commuters can change at Athlone if they want Heuston or Broadstone/Connelly.

Try not to be too blinkered in your view of what is possible and what is not possible due to excessive constraints.

Stephen15

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not at all, you just send the tram line up the R108 straight up to the Airport via Ballymun. As for other connecting services, simply change at one of the commuter stations west of Broombridge or at Broombriodge.

My suggestion would relieve Connoly of much of the congestion by using Broadstone as a terminus for some of the traffic from the west, including Galway & Westport/Ballina if the Athlone to Mullingar line is reinstated. Commuters can change at Athlone if they want Heuston or Broadstone/Connelly.

Try not to be too blinkered in your view of what is possible and what is not possible due to excessive constraints.

I don't see any merit in your idea. The capacity issue in Connolly is mostly to do with the congestion on the Northern Line and the Loopline Bridge and is not to do with the capacity being taken up by the Sligo trains.

As for the Athlone to Mullingar line being reopened not gonna happen. It would be a silly move to do so as Galway trains would be slowed down running on the Maynooth line which would be idiotic, if the line was to be electrified as far as Maynooth you'd just be creating the exact same situation which happens on the Northern Line where Commuter, Intercity and Dart services all slow each other down which would be solved by four tracking.

You'd also be cutting DIT Grangegorman, Phibsboro and Cabra off from Luas services.

handlemaster

How is the morning rush hour connection from the clonsilla line working out to broombridge ? I havent used this in years. Used to be jammed in the morning and evening

handlemaster

How is the morning rush hour connection from the clonsilla line working out to broombridge ? I havent used this in years. Used to be jammed in the morning and evening

Jamie2k9

Opened one year ago today.

Irish Times report Green Line revenue up 30% and Red up 7%. Of course nothing on costs.

Qrt

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Opened one year ago today.

Irish Times report Green Line revenue up 30% and Red up 7%. Of course nothing on costs.

I noticed it said passenger numbers have reached 10m for the first time...? That sounds very wrong unless I’m reading it wrong.

Telchak

Qrt wrote: »

I noticed it said passenger numbers have reached 10m for the first time...? That sounds very wrong unless I’m reading it wrong.

I think she means just for the second quarter.

AngryLips

I've been following the IT coverage of the Cross City anniversary and, overall, it's quite negative.

ongarboy

Well, if gentrification as listed in the Irish Times article below is one of the biggest fears that residents of Cabra have, then the arrival of Luas services to the area can't be too much of an issue.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/luas-cross-city-brings-fresh-challenges-to-cabra-1.3725518

Lord Glentoran

AngryLips wrote: »

I've been following the IT coverage of the Cross City anniversary and, overall, it's quite negative.

Yeah. I gave up on the IT when The Times Ireland Edition went into print.

LuckyLloyd

AngryLips wrote: »

I've been following the IT coverage of the Cross City anniversary and, overall, it's quite negative.

Is it unreasonable to suggest there have been negatives?

marno21

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is it unreasonable to suggest there have been negatives?

Well I was under the impression that back in the Transport21 days, Luas BXD (well the city centre part at least) was devised as an ancilliary service to complement Metro North. Instead it has been built on its own cos it had a smaller price tag, with no consideration given to the job it was being given.

Totally unsurprising result.

Brian CivilEng

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is it unreasonable to suggest there have been negatives?

It's unreasonable to suggest there have only been negatives.

CramCycle

I was on it for the first time in a long time the other day, found it absolutely fine, it appears to have improved alot since it started. Although maybe I just got lucky.

LuckyLloyd

marno21 wrote: »

Well I was under the impression that back in the Transport21 days, Luas BXD (well the city centre part at least) was devised as an ancilliary service to complement Metro North. Instead it has been built on its own cos it had a smaller price tag, with no consideration given to the job it was being given.

Totally unsurprising result.

I completely agree there.

Idbatterim

Ive just watched the a video about Luas cross city, link below. Why cant they simply take seating out of one section of the tram? From Dundrum in (where it was claimed, it become near impossible to get on), most people get off around SSG, is standing about then minutes a problem?! :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/luas-green-line-frustrating-and-unpredictable-in-the-mornings-1.3725160

devnull

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ive just watched the a video about Luas cross city, link below. Why cant they simply take seating out of one section of the tram? From Dundrum in (where it was claimed, it become near impossible to get on), most people get off around SSG, is standing about then minutes a problem?! :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/luas-green-line-frustrating-and-unpredictable-in-the-mornings-1.3725160

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

Lord Glentoran

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

In my archives are cuttings of the back and forth over the Luas project from the Irish Times from 1996 through 1999. Frank McDonald was in favour of the original phase 1 of Luas, which was to be a continuous line from Tallaght through O’Connell Street to what is now Balally. The letters pages had plenty of harrumphing letters about white elephants, planning density and buses, while I have wondered for years about Garret FitzGerald’s motive in writing article after article slamming the project from every conceivable angle.

Bray Head

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

It's quite astonishing when you think that Metrolink station at Tara Street will mean that the Irish Times office will be literally at the major intersection of Metrolink and the heavy rail network. It will have the best public transport connections in the country!

Bray Head

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

In my archives are cuttings of the back and forth over the Luas project from the Irish Times from 1996 through 1999. Frank McDonald was in favour of the original phase 1 of Luas, which was to be a continuous line from Tallaght through O’Connell Street to what is now Balally. The letters pages had plenty of harrumphing letters about white elephants, planning density and buses, while I have wondered for years about Garret FitzGerald’s motive in writing article after article slamming the project from every conceivable angle.

Maybe so, but in the mid- to late-2000s McDonald was in general negative on Metro North. He went to great lengths to FOI the costs, and also highlighted the impact on SSG that would have come from building a large station there.

FitzGerald, if I recall correctly, frequently made the point that the Luas green line should have gone underground around Ranelagh to deal with capacity issues. In hindsight he was probably right.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The constant anti public transport routine from the Irish Times and the one-sided journalism around it is getting really pathetic now and there's no chance of any balance in any of their pieces it seems.

They were always anti LUAS, both when it opened and when cross city opened, they published a number of highly misleading articles on BusConnects, and continue to give one-sided journalism about LUAS Cross City now.

Obviously the LUAS services are busy and it's right to point that out, but a more balanced report would have noted that 26 trams are being lengthened by 12m and there are a further 8 on order to provide capacity - but I guess those facts will get in a way of a one-sided report.

Also have to laugh tha bit about delays and cutting to a display about them, which if you notice, just before the cut, is about signal failure so has absolutely nothing to do with capacity at all, despite the point that is being made.

Obviously the LUAS does have it's capacity issues and we all know that, but as per usual, the Irish Time is unable to be balanced on Public Transport and negates to report the full situation.

And anti Metro pieces aswell don't forget. In fairness it's not only them the Indo and the rags have been at it aswell. The Journal have to some extent been the only publication to give fair balanced coverage.

cgcsb

Bray Head wrote: »

It's quite astonishing when you think that Metrolink station at Tara Street will mean that the Irish Times office will be literally at the major intersection of Metrolink and the heavy rail network. It will have the best public transport connections in the country!

No doubt providing all the journos with an excellent commute.