Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

LXFlyer

Idbatterim wrote: »

doubt there is much of a case to be made! they are needed, end of! One suggestion and that FG guy mentioned it, is removing some seating from the existing trams, not ideal, but potential short term / very cheap solution. Perfectly in keeping with everything transport wise here...

Not necessarily.

Some of the trams on the Green Line are currently only see use during the morning peak and are in the depot for the rest of the day until the next morning.

There are spare red line trams that are not in daily use (over and above maintenance spares) - this is now facilitating the testing of the BXD line.

Is that necessarily a good use of public funds?

Idbatterim

so use the red line trams then and get more drivers (assuming frequency can be increased on green line during morning peak) or increase length of existing trams... Or reduce seat numbers...

bk

Idbatterim wrote: »

doubt there is much of a case to be made! they are needed, end of! One suggestion and that FG guy mentioned it, is removing some seating from the existing trams, not ideal, but potential short term / very cheap solution. Perfectly in keeping with everything transport wise here...

In fairness, less seating, more standing space is absolutely standard practice for mass transit around the world.

It is Ireland that has a bit of a fetish with everyone having a seat on bus and trams.

In most other countries the idea is fast, direct, frequent transport that gets you to your destination quickly, so the fact you are standing shouldn't be a big deal. In Ireland the idea is more along the lines of a seat for everyone, since the bus will take forever to meander through every housing estate, stopping at a bus stop every hundred meters, taking ages to unload and load people through the single door, of course with a lovely chat with the driver for each passenger! Oh but then leaving people behind at the stops as now there isn't enough space on the bus!

Idbatterim

In fairness, less seating, more standing space is absolutely standard practice for mass transit around the world.

It is Ireland that has a bit of a fetish with everyone having a seat on bus and trams.

yeah i suggested it previously, what does Sandyford to SSG take currently? 22 mins? for the first few stops, seating wont be an issue, if some extra people have to stand for 10-15 minutes for what 1-2 hours a day, big deal. Id take that over not knowing if I will even be able to get on it!

LXFlyer

I wouldn't necessarily be putting that much faith in what that FG senator says either.

The current service pattern has every second tram starting at Sandyford with untimetabled extras also operating from Sandyford (these use the trams mentioned above) in the morning peak.

The trams from Brides Glen are going to fill up as they get further in - that's kind of inevitable, but the following trams that start in Sandyford then clear up the passengers at the inner stops.

It's exactly the same as on most bus corridors.

Trams and buses are inevitably going to be full if starting further out - as long as the service pattern deals with that by having services start from inner stops then it's not an issue.

I very much doubt Neale Richmond figured that much out when doing his "survey".

bk

I saw the Luas on O'Connell Street on Saturday. Looked fantastic, it had a real big presence there. I can't wait to see 54m long ones, two minutes apart, making there way up the streets. I think it will look even more impressive then the red line (a bit hidden away in narrow streets).

Hopefully it will have a positive impact on peoples perceptions of public transport and lead to more pressure on DCC and politicians to prioritise public transport over cars.

Maybe it was just me, but on a very sunny Saturday, Dublin suddenly looked very mainland European!

Idbatterim

Hopefully it will have a positive impact on peoples perceptions of public transport and lead to more pressure on DCC and politicians to prioritise public transport over cars.

I hope so too. I wonder about the luas though. sure extend it out to bray and maybe a few other places. but ripping up city centre streets again for an eternity, for a slow service, that reduces space for buses, that are the backbone and going to be for the short - medium term, I dont agree with...

D14Rugby

Idbatterim wrote: »

I hope so too. I wonder about the luas though. sure extend it out to bray and maybe a few other places. but ripping up city centre streets again for an eternity, for a slow service, that reduces space for buses, that are the backbone and going to be for the short - medium term, I dont agree with...

I think the luas' are great, they're fast enough, regular enough and look nice too. The only problem I have with them is I'm in a bit of a blackspot for them and they're very crowded but other than that I think they're great an should be expanded more

Stephen15

Despite what people say about the luas it is the best piece of public transport we have in this country I think most people can agree.

Zebra3

For all those office workers whom spend about eight hours a day sitting down, 15 mins in the morning and evening standing would be very good for them ergonomically.

spacetweek

bk wrote: »

It is Ireland that has a bit of a fetish with everyone having a seat on bus and trams.
<snip>
Oh but then leaving people behind at the stops as now there isn't enough space on the bus!

This is all a bit much.

Jamie2k9

Is the Green Line really as bad as the red line in the mornings? I find it very hard to believe.

LXFlyer

As I posted above - the Brides Glen originating trams will fill up earlier and people at inner stops will have problems boarding them, but the following Sandyford originating trams will then "clear the road".

That's exactly why the schedule is designed the way it is.

This is a nothing story.

LeinsterDub

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/testing-of-luas-cross-city-line-to-be-scaled-uhttp://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/testing-of-luas-cross-city-line-to-be-scaled-up-over-coming-weeks-1.3125801p-over-coming-weeks-1.3125801

Breakdown on tram sizes

The platforms are being lengthened to 54m to accommodate seven new 54m trams which will be delivered by the end of the year.

Currently, there are 66 trams in the Luas fleet; 40 are 40m trams, and 26 are 43m trams. To serve future demand the new 54m trams will operate on both lines and will be deployed based on demand at peak periods.

Interesting the 54m trams will serve both lines

loyatemu

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Interesting the 54m trams will serve both lines

will they fit on the Red Line platforms?

seekers

Even more interesting is that the trams had to be extended shortly after being delivered on the red line

lateconnection

Red Line platforms would need to extended. They cant handle 54m trams at present.

The 40m trams that currently operate on the line can of course fit the platforms.

The platforms can also handle the 43m 5000 class trams that currently operate on the Green Line. I wonder after LCC opens will we see the 5000 class trams on the Red Line..... but they are being lengthened to 54m also though......

LeinsterDub

lateconnection wrote: »

Red Line platforms would need to extended. They cant handle 54m trams at present.

The 40m trams that currently operate on the line can of course fit the platforms.

The platforms can also handle the 43m 5000 class trams that currently operate on the Green Line. I wonder after LCC opens will we see the 5000 class trams on the Red Line..... but they are being lengthened to 54m also though......

Most likely a case of terrible Irish infrastructure journalism than an actual intention to lengthen the Red Line platforms

Geuze

I wonder can I just get clarification on the tram fleet?


(1) Initial 2004 launch

26 No. Citadis 301 model, class 3000, length = 30m [for Red line]
14 No. Citadis 401 model, class 4000, length = 40m [for Green line]

(2) 2007/08 the shorter class 3000 trams had 10m added to make 40m

At this stage all 40 trams are 40m long, and all trams can work all lines.


(3) 2009 second major order

26 No. Citadis 402 model, class 5000, length = 43m


So at the moment there are 66 trams in the fleet, 40m or 43m long.

(4) third order 2017

seven more trams, to be 54m long, which can be used on the north-south line, after some of the platforms have been extended

Is that all correct?

lateconnection

Geuze wrote: »

I wonder can I just get clarification on the tram fleet?


(1) Initial 2004 launch

26 No. Citadis 301 model, class 3000, length = 30m [for Red line]
14 No. Citadis 401 model, class 4000, length = 40m [for Green line]

(2) 2007/08 the shorter class 3000 trams had 10m added to make 40m

At this stage all 40 trams can work all lines.


(3) 2009 second major order

26 No. Citadis 402 model, class 5000, length = 43m


So at the moment there are 66 trams in the fleet, 40m or 43m long.

(4) third order 2017

seven more trams, to be 54m long, which can be used on the north-south line, after some of the platforms have been extended

Is that all correct?

Yeah, spot on.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

As I posted above - the Brides Glen originating trams will fill up earlier and people at inner stops will have problems boarding them, but the following Sandyford originating trams will then "clear the road".

That's exactly why the schedule is designed the way it is.

This is a nothing story.

No I totally get your point but just pointing out that the Red Line is far worse in the mornings. You could be waiting for the third or fourth tram to arrive between Museam and Jervis/Abbey street to be able to board. Far worse than the Geen Line.

One thing they could possibly try is allow Sandyford trams departure ahead of the B Glen. T

TBH there is no problem on the Green Line.

Jamie2k9

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/testing-of-luas-cross-city-line-to-be-scaled-uhttp://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/testing-of-luas-cross-city-line-to-be-scaled-up-over-coming-weeks-1.3125801p-over-coming-weeks-1.3125801

Breakdown on tram sizes



Interesting the 54m trams will serve both lines

Don't see it happening on Red Line anytime soon. It would cripple peak line services because there are so many holding points they would no longer be able to use.

The platforms can also handle the 43m 5000 class trams that currently operate on the Green Line. I wonder after LCC opens will we see the 5000 class trams on the Red Line..... but they are being lengthened to 54m also though......

There are no pans to move 5000 class to Red Line.

Stephen15

Just minor thing I've noticed is why do Red Line trams still have dot matrix displays while the green line one have LED displays.

theskeptic

Stephen15 wrote: »

Just minor thing I've noticed is why do Red Line trams still have dot matrix displays while the green line one have LED displays.

Green Line 5000 series are just newer I guess. Also unlike the Red Line 3000 & 4000, they have completely low floors (no steps inside). And the 5000 series is comprised of 7 segments where as the 3000 and 4000 comprise 5 segments. Useless trivia:)

Chivito550

Has anybody else ever notice this particular flaw in the design of the LUAS. Basically at the half way point from one main standing area to the next (down through the predominantly seated area) there's an area where people can't stand safely as there is nothing in that exact point that a passenger can grab onto. As a result you get a gap in this area which would otherwise fit 2 extra passengers. Multiply that by the number of carriages and that's up to 10-12. You always get people asking people to push down further into the aisle, but there's only so far somebody can move before it becomes unsafe. This is rather stupid design IMO. It's something that could be easily fixed. Maybe I'm not explaining it well enough. Anybody else ever noticed this?

BonnieSituation

Stephen15 wrote: »

Just minor thing I've noticed is why do Red Line trams still have dot matrix displays while the green line one have LED displays.

Southside v Westside

MJohnston

Chivito550 wrote: »

Has anybody else ever notice this particular flaw in the design of the LUAS. Basically at the half way point from one main standing area to the next (down through the predominantly seated area) there's an area where people can't stand safely as there is nothing in that exact point that a passenger can grab onto. As a result you get a gap in this area which would otherwise fit 2 extra passengers. Multiply that by the number of carriages and that's up to 10-12. You always get people asking people to push down further into the aisle, but there's only so far somebody can move before it becomes unsafe. This is rather stupid design IMO. It's something that could be easily fixed. Maybe I'm not explaining it well enough. Anybody else ever noticed this?

You're talking about the area that's intended for wheelchairs and buggies, I believe, as well as generally infirm people. That's why there's extra space left here.

Stephen15

I find it odd aswell that most of the seats are mounted to a raised platform. Rather than mounted to the ground similar to bus seats.

Chivito550

MJohnston wrote: »

You're talking about the area that's intended for wheelchairs and buggies, I believe, as well as generally infirm people. That's why there's extra space left here.

No I'm not. A wheelchair wouldn't fit in the area I'm talking about. I'm talking about the middle of the aisle with the seats on either side.

jamo2oo9

Chivito550 wrote: »

No I'm not. A wheelchair wouldn't fit in the area I'm talking about. I'm talking about the middle of the aisle with the seats on either side.

The ones that fold up to make more space during rush hour?