Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

CIARAN_BOYLE

CatFromHue wrote: »

exactly!

thats why when reading stats like that you have to know how to interept and understand them. just reading then blindly is no good.

i agree about o gara. his technique is routinely awful but i respect him for trying all the same. the times he gets it right it tends to be over looked in favour of showing the times he gets steam rolled.

Before the Harlequins match O'Gara had attempted (in Europe) 45 tackles and he managed to make 34 of them. The missed tackles are poor but it shows he got around and got involved.

Before the Toulose match Sexton had attemped 40 tackles and completed 36 of them.

Sexton was rated as having 450 Index points for defense while O'Gara had just 100. I don't think there was that much of a difference. The missed tackles just dragged his rating down but I think he deserves a lot of credit for the amount of tackles he got involved in. Especially since a lot of his missed tackles was him slowing down the ball carrier.

The AOI is an interesting read but you have to see beyond it.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Interesting that Hayes and Horan convincingly best Wikinson and Hagan yesterday isn't it? They shouldn't travel though. Hayes has earned his retirement though and Horan is still a handy player to have if needed.

Your opinion of Ryan is baseless. If he was a Leinster Player he would have plenty of HC caps. He is behind 2 Lions captains and MOD who is only a slightly worse player than Cullen and is consistently solid in POC's absence. Ryan is a much better lock than McLoughlin but a much worse backrow, it will be an interesting decision to see who Kidney picks.

Buckley could have been a great player. He is a capable scrummager when being coached by Smal (Playing for Ireland) and is brilliant around the pitch, when interested. Ross is undoubtedly our first choice TH but, he has improved remarkably since the start of the year, as has Healy.

Wallace should be selected ahead of SOB. He is better 7.

No mention of the fact that Fitz and Kearney will be on the plane ahead of much more deserving players? Blue-Tinted Glasses as I said.

Donnacha Ryan wouldn't make Connacht Ulster or Leinster's team. I have literally no idea where the idea of him being any more than an average player has ever come from. Can't remember any stand out performances, any MotM appearances, any games where he actually had an impact tbh.

Asking players to consider the "tint of their glasses", while declaring that Buckley is a good scrummager, Ryan is a good second row, Wallace is better than arguably the best player in the NH this year is absolutely bizarre.

Anyone wearing ANYTHING but red glasses would easily argue against roughly 95% of your posting in here.

jolley123

You're comments of Blue tinted glasses are only embarrassing yourself Blackbeard. The comments that have been made about McLaughlin are totally valid. He deserves to go to the WC way more than Ryan. Anyone who wants Ireland to succeed can see that. Nobody has given reasonable argument as to why Leamy should travel. Leamy is a ball-carrier, a 6/8, and we have plenty of those in SOB,Ferris,Heaslip,Wallace. So why on earth would you bring another 6/8 instead of bringing Jennings as a 7. It astounds me that anyone could actually disagree.

CouchSmart

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

You win.

There is no point arguing with someone who won't listen to reason, or any other points of view for that matter.

Irony overload.

Tomtom364

jolley123 wrote: »

You're comments of Blue tinted glasses are only embarrassing yourself Blackbeard. The comments that have been made about McLaughlin are totally valid. He deserves to go to the WC way more than Ryan. Anyone who wants Ireland to succeed can see that. Nobody has given reasonable argument as to why Leamy should travel. Leamy is a ball-carrier, a 6/8, and we have plenty of those in SOB,Ferris,Heaslip,Wallace. So why on earth would you bring another 6/8 instead of bringing Jennings as a 7. It astounds me that anyone could actually disagree.

IMO main choice options for the RWC should be.
No. 7 options: SOB and Wallace.
No. 8 options: Heaslip and Wallace
No. 6 options: Ferris (if fit) Leamy.
and then McLaughlin in as SR/BR cover if theres space in the squad for that, or if Ferris isnt up to it then McLaughlin in with Leamy for No. 6.

CatFromHue

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The AOI is an interesting read but you have to see beyond it.

exactly.

on the mclaughlin thing it has to be noted that he has only played a couple of games at second row against relatively easy teams eg home to glasgow and home to aironi or treviso. its way too early to saying he should be starting or subbing for ireland in that position.

Cpt_Blackbeard

jolley123 wrote: »

You're comments of Blue tinted glasses are only embarrassing yourself Blackbeard. The comments that have been made about McLaughlin are totally valid. He deserves to go to the WC way more than Ryan. Anyone who wants Ireland to succeed can see that. Nobody has given reasonable argument as to why Leamy should travel. Leamy is a ball-carrier, a 6/8, and we have plenty of those in SOB,Ferris,Heaslip,Wallace. So why on earth would you bring another 6/8 instead of bringing Jennings as a 7. It astounds me that anyone could actually disagree.

Ryan is a better lock and McLoughlin is a better backrow. McLoughlin has played more Rugby though. They are both vying for the same spot on the plane so it will depend if Deccie wants a Lock/Backrow or a Backrow/Lock.

I don't think I claimed that Leamy should definitely travel; I just said that he is a much better player and having a much better season than some of the posters here would have you believe. Ferris isn't a cert to be fit either.

Leamy isn't much of at ball carrier anymore. He thrives on the physicality of the game and is brilliant at the "unseen" work. He allows the players around him to have more freedom to take ball on effectively. Jennings only covers 7 and is behind both Wallace and SOB for that jersey. Similarly, Leamy is behind Ferris and SOB at 6.

CouchSmart

When someone mentions the "unseen work" a player does, I now read it as "I have no evidence of what a player is doing well and in fact am just blindly bigging them up for the sake of it."

LeeroyJones

Whatever about posters having tinted glasses on, I really cannot buy into the conspiracy theory that Kidney has a Munster bias. There are some decisions he has made which I have disagreed with, but to claim he is biased is clutching a straws in my opinion.

I just want to address a few issues.
1) Regarding Leamy.
Personally my 6 back-rowers for the WC would be Ferris, SOB, Heaslip, Wallace, Jennings and McLaughlin. However, given Ferris' run of injuries, we need to have other options. I have no problem whatsoever in Leamy being selected.
We have seen what he can offer for years, OK recent form hasn't been fantastic-but there is a cliche which says 'form is temporary, class is permanent'. He's 29, he has not 'passed it'. It would be foolish to cast him aside when we have seen what he can offer.

2) Ryan or McLaughlin
As I've stated before, Locky is my choice here, but it's not as though Kidney has ignored him - or has favoured Ryan. Locky got a 6nations start and suffered an injury for the 2 following international series' - which he was selected for - which would have been an opportunity for him to get more caps. I am quite confident he will be selected in the greater pre-WC squad at the very least

3)TOL
Never has TOL been the flavour of the month here it must be said. Should he be in our starting XV, for me - no. Should he be on the plane - I wouldn't deny him a shot. He offers a physicality and pace which neither Stringer or Reddan can posses ie something different. Three carbon copy scrum-halves would be pointless IMO. Of course, Boss offers much of the same as TOL and I wouldn't begrudge either of them a spot... but it would be unfair to say TOL would only go on the back of a Kidney bias.

4)Sexton.
I was in Croke Park on 2 occasions in 2010 during the 6 Nations and had to bite my tongue on several occasions when I heard some amount of rubbish about how Sexton should never play for Ireland again in the stands - what a load of tosh. I don't understand how a coach who apparently has a Munster bias or is reluctant to try something new would would put so much faith and take so much flak for a new Leinster fly-half.

I think the Sexton case really highlights the fact that while fans, including myself in case I sound like I'm on a high horse, think they know who's better than who, it is the coach who knows best and while we may disagree with some decisions I think we must remember that Kidney is the man who spends day after day with his players watching each detail - an opportunity we don't get.

GerM

CouchSmart wrote: »

When someone mentions the "unseen work" a player does, I now read it as "I have no evidence of what a player is doing well and in fact am just blindly bigging them up for the sake of it."

Unseen work I think should just be called unglamorous work. DOC did it superbly against England. Smashed rucks and held up players in the tackles all day long. "Unseen" work is pretty easy to see once you look for it. Calling it unseen is a bit of an oxymoron. It's also used, as you rightly identify, to defend a lot of out of form players.

With that in mind, I don't think Leamy has been particularly prevalent in his unglamorous work. His tackle counts have not been high at all. He hasn't been on the shoulders of players driving them on. He has, despite perceptions, carried a hell of a lot of ball but he simply has not made any yards with the ball in hand with one or two notable exceptions. I thought he started the season very well. He was the most impressive back rower Munster had for the first couple of months but he has fallen away sharply and noticeably. At this point in time, the only thing getting him on the plane to New Zealand is his status as someone who has been there in the past and will slot in with the systems in terms of familiarity etc. It's the easy call. He certainly won't be getting on the plane on form.

CouchSmart

GerM wrote: »

Unseen work I think should just be called unglamorous work. DOC did it superbly against England. Smashed rucks and held up players in the tackles all day long. Unseen work is pretty easy to see once you look for it.

With that in mind, I don't think Leamy has been particularly prevalent in his unglamorous work. His tackle counts have not been high at all. He hasn't been on the shoulders of players driving them on. He has, despite perceptions, carried a hell of a lot of ball but he simply has not made any yards with the ball in hand. I thought he started the season very well. He was the most impressive back rower Munster had for the first couple of months but he has fallen away sharply and noticeably. At this point in time, the only thing getting him on the plane to New Zealand is his status as someone who has been there in the past and will slot in with the systems in terms of familiarity etc. It's the easy call. He certainly won't be getting on the plane on form.

Exactly, it's not unseen work, it's very easily seen. So when someone uses unseen I read it as non-existent. If a player has been clearing rucks, tackling his heart out, constantly rucking and making trouble for the opposition then say so, don't say unseen. Leamy has not been doing the 'unseen' work I just mentioned there, he's been doing nothing.

Leamy hasn't been terrible,yes he hasn't been great, and yes he's been fairly stupid with ridiculous penalties and yesterday's outrageous back comment, but he's not playing miles below what he's capable of.

Playing him at 8 when he's a 6 and a 6 only has been damaging for him this year tbh.

The fact of the matter is though, that there are players playing better than him elsewhere. It is possible for someone to overtake another, without the latter's standards slipping hugely.

Some people see "X is playing better than Y" this season as an insult to Y, even though it's not, its merely a comparison between the two.

Morf

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Another laughable comment. In case you haven't noticed O'Brien is regarded as the best 7 (best player even!) in the HC on the back of his performances at 7 so far.

Dusatoir is much better 7. As is Jennings. SOB has been fantastic though.

Tomtom364 wrote: »

No. 7 options: SOB and Wallace.
No. 8 options: Heaslip and Wallace
No. 6 options: Ferris (if fit) Leamy.

SOB and Wallace aren't really 7's. Jennings is the best 7 in Ireland but Kidney doesn't seem to want a 7.

When was the last time Wallace played 8? Surely SOB would be second choice 8.

SOB is sure competing with Ferris to be first choice 6.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Jennings only covers 7 and is behind both Wallace and SOB for that jersey.

Part a) Not true. Jennings covers 6 too. Possibly not to the very highest standard but if injuries were a problem he has experience at 6.

Part b) Jennings hasn't been consistently behind SOB at 7. Not by any stretch.

Cpt_Blackbeard

CouchSmart wrote: »

When someone mentions the "unseen work" a player does, I now read it as "I have no evidence of what a player is doing well and in fact am just blindly bigging them up for the sake of it."

I'm not "bigging (Leamy) up". Has he been brilliant this year? No but, he has been better than posters here are claiming. He has a huge workrate which allows his fellow backrows to do the more flashy noticeable stuff, its a big reason why Coughlan has generally been playing so well for Munster this year against the smaller teams where his lack of physicality can be covered by DOC and Leamy.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm not "bigging (Leamy) up". Has he been brilliant this year? No but, he has been better than posters here are claiming. He has a huge workrate which allows his fellow backrows to do the more flashy noticeable stuff, its a big reason why Coughlan has generally been playing so well for Munster this year against the smaller teams where his lack of physicality can be covered by DOC and Leamy.

How does his massive work rate manifest itself though CB? If it's just hitting rucks then that's not enough for a modern player. He isn't a particularly effective breakdown player. He doesn't link play. He's not much use in the line out. He doesn't have immense (or high) tackle counts. Munster have been turned over repeatedly in their crunch away HEC games this season so the back row haven't been superb at securing their own ball. Not trying to be contrary (that just comes naturally), just tying to understand where this unglamorous work is taking place.

yimrsg

Leamy's physicality in Munster's backrow compensates for Coughlan & Wallace whilst any for Ireland there is an abundance in Ferris, Heaslip & SoB in terms of physicality. For me he's redundant in terms of playing for Ireland if 2 out of those 3 play. It's far better to bring in someone in backrow who has a completely different skillset.

He doesn't have the nous of Jennings, the untold potential of Ruddock, or the versatililty of McLaughlin or Ryan. Plus he's got a reputation for giving away penalties which as impact sub (his most likely role for Ireland) brings more pressure on to us. That's why I wouldn't want him to travel.

roycon

the game has moved on and leamy has just stayed the same since he started. he gives away too many penalties.poor decision making. worse handling and carrying than wallace,obrien, heaslip and ferris and nothing much in the lineout.the old ground hog flankers arent as useful as they once were and hes not quick around the pitch even.

i dont mean to be so critical of the guy. he always puts in a good shift , he just hasnt got the tactical nous of others

roycon

can people stop quoting the opta index. its a load of bollox and just says if your playing in a winning team or not.

escape m1

So Ferris is officially out until the end of the season which isn't much of a statement seeing as there are only at most 2 games left for ulster. But this is just a continuation of a constant battle he's having that nobody seems to be able to see the end of. I imagine that they are saying the rest of the season just because its the next date that can think to mention. Do we think kidney is going to properly commit to one of our backrowers lower down the order or will he just hang on to someone until it looks like Ferris will be alright and then drop them out as he has done for other positions in the past? Its an awful pity to have to think of Ferris not being able to play a part but where do you draw the line really?

totallegend

escape m1 wrote: »

So Ferris is officially out until the end of the season which isn't much of a statement seeing as there are only at most 2 games left for ulster. But this is just a continuation of a constant battle he's having that nobody seems to be able to see the end of. I imagine that they are saying the rest of the season just because its the next date that can think to mention. Do we think kidney is going to properly commit to one of our backrowers lower down the order or will he just hang on to someone until it looks like Ferris will be alright and then drop them out as he has done for other positions in the past? Its an awful pity to have to think of Ferris not being able to play a part but where do you draw the line really?

I think Ferris is good enough to be an exceptional case and should be given as much time as possible to prove his fitness.

Heaslip, Wallace and O'Brien are nailed down for the squad, then you have a supporting cast of the likes of Leamy, McLoughlin, Jennings, Faloon, Wilson and Muldoon fighting it out for the next two spots. Ferris is so far ahead of anyone in that chasing pack in terms of ability that he should be given every chance. In the same way, Flannery is so far ahead of the "contender" hookers (which is basically just Varley) that he should also be given as much leeway as possible. Similar case (though not as clearcut) for R Kearney.

A fully fit Ferris would be a fantastic bonus for Ireland. I wouldn't be very optimistic about seeing it though

thomond2006

IRFU in negotiations with Os du Randt to be a consultant for the World Cup.

http://www.rugby365.com/news/2731781.htm

He would be a great guy to have on board.

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

IRFU in negotiations with Os du Randt to be a consultant for the World Cup.

http://www.rugby365.com/news/2731781.htm

He would be a great guy to have on board.

looks like they want more than a consultant, looks like he is looking at something permanent

'I'd arranged my life around coaching full-time, renting my farm out and so on. After Saru dropped me, I've had to look at other possibilities. I've asked myself, why not [sign with Ireland permanently]?

rockman15

Id have McLoughlin in the squad as he can cover back row and is a fantastic option for the 2nd row too in the event of 2 injuries. Has played well all season and deserves it. Work rate around the park in the 4/5 jersey has only been equalled by DOC and Hines this year. Excellent lineout option, huge carries and has a great offloading game.

With ongoing injuries to POC and Ferris he is the optium selection.

irishbucsfan

Given that Scotland are announcing their squad, I'm starting to think about ours. At the moment I think we'll see:

Healy, Court, Best, Cronin, Ross, Buckley; DOC, Cullen, O'Connell, M.O'Driscoll; McLaughlin, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Heaslip;
Reddan, O'Leary, Stringer; O'Gara, Sexton; D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden, Wallace; Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble; Kearney, Murphy/Duffy

No Flannery. Just don't think he'll be fit. If he is then drop Cronin for him. Buckley is in, because he has been the one they've stuck with until now. I think there's a strong chance they'll bring Hayes as well, not certain though.

Rest is fairly straight forward. No Tuohy means only second row with enough experience is either O'Driscoll or Ryan, and I rate O'Driscoll higher. Back row is fairly easy to pick, only people pushing for it would be Muldoon/DomRyan/Ruddock. I think he'll bring Leamy but I left him out to add Stringer as the extra Scrum Half to give the back line more variety. If Leamy does travel I think we could see McLaughlin miss out, in typical blind Kidney fashion.

Only 2 scrum halves, he could well bring more than that. Reddan and O'Leary are the ones there based on previous selections. 10s, wings and centres pick themselves. Kearney will be fit so he'll be guarranteed a place in the squad. From there I think Murphy is sure of a spot if he's fit, if not Duffy is an able replacement.

Our 1st XV from that squad:
Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, O'Connell, O'Brien, Wallace, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney;

2nd XV:
Court, Cronin, Buckley, Cullen, O'Driscoll, McLaughlin, Jennings, O'Brien;
O'Leary, O'Gara, Fitzgerald, Wallace, McFadden/Earls, Trimble, Murphy

thomond2006

He'll definitely bring 3 hookers and 3 scrum halves I'd say.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Our 1st XV from that squad:
Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, O'Connell, O'Brien, Wallace, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney;

2nd XV:
Court, Cronin, Buckley Annie the tea lady, Cullen, O'Driscoll, McLaughlin, Jennings, O'Brien;
O'Leary, O'Gara, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Spence / O'Malley, Trimble, Murphy

Improved.

Joking aside, in the '2nds' I'd have McFadden instead of Mincer despite the arguments about paddy as a 10 and Spence or O'Malley at 13. I'd far rather see Humphreys on the bench than Paddy on the pitch.

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Given that Scotland are announcing their squad, I'm starting to think about ours. At the moment I think we'll see:

Healy, Court, Best, Cronin, Ross, Buckley; DOC, Cullen, O'Connell, M.O'Driscoll; McLaughlin, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Heaslip;
Reddan, O'Leary, Stringer; O'Gara, Sexton; D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden, Wallace; Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble; Kearney, Murphy/Duffy

No Flannery. Just don't think he'll be fit. If he is then drop Cronin for him. Buckley is in, because he has been the one they've stuck with until now. I think there's a strong chance they'll bring Hayes as well, not certain though.

I'd be shocked if they only bring two hookers so you'd need to make room for one more; your selection is a 15:15 split when 16:14 or even 17:13 is the more likely. This probably means McFadden will get the bullet to bring Varley, which is a grim prospect.

[Sean O'Brien did a decent job of throwing the ball in against Racing a few months ago, maybe a last minute conversion to hooker to get all four of him, Heaslip, Ferris and Wallace into the starting XV could be the answer!]

thomond2006

FORWARDS (16)

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Flannery/Varley

Props: Healy, Court, Ross, Buckley

Locks: POC, Cullen, MOD, DOC (assuming Tuohy is out)

Backrows: McLaughlin, SOB, Jennings, Wallace, Heaslip

BACKS (14)

Scrumhalves: Reddan, Murray, Boss/Stringer

Flyhalves: Sexton, ROG

Centres: D'Arcy, BOD, McFadden (3rd goalkicker)

Back 3: Earls, Trimble, Horgan, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Kearney/G Murphy


Backup Players: Varley/Sherry, Hayes, Toner, Leamy, Stringer/Boss, P Wallace, Kearney/G Murphy

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

IRFU in negotiations with Os du Randt to be a consultant for the World Cup.

http://www.rugby365.com/news/2731781.htm

He would be a great guy to have on board.

Seems an odd one unless Feek is unavailable. I can't see the point of bringing in Du Randt after how well Feek has performed. I'd like to see an overall consultant come in alongside Kidney, similar to Eddie Jones in 2007 with the Boks. Our tactics and overall game management have been the most concerning areas for me. I'd like someone to be able to provide additional analysis on our opponents and input on how best to approach the fixtures.

David900

I think most people would be fairly unhappy if Hayes was included. I remember people saying he was included in the past few squads for his experience and what he could show the more internationally inexperienced players in the scrum, but realistically what can he show Ross and they have a scrum coach now anyway.

Hayes has talked about how he'd like to go to the World Cup as his last foray into rugby. I'd have no problem with the IRFU even paying for him to go on a holiday with the lads, the man is a legend and all. His inclusion in any squad at the expense of another player would be a joke though. Kidney must realise it himself though.