Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

CIARAN_BOYLE · 04-05-2011 1:07pm

roycon wrote: »

what are peoples views on two definite irish qualified starters for the h-cup final. roger wilson and james downey. should they get a look in for Ireland A if theyre playing so well in such a successful team.

I am not certain that they can play them for Ireland

I believe that it is not required for teams to release players for international A duty. At the very least the A game a week before the 6Ns is not in any international window and teams don't have to release players.

Anyway there is two Ireland A matches this season. That is all. I wish they would enter Ireland A in the Churchill cup or send it on mini tours in the summer or something but they dont.

I don't see much opportunity for Wilson and Downey at A level because of this.

copacetic · 07-05-2011 11:06am

Was impressed by McLaughlin for Leinster last night. He could really have put his hand up for the WC squad by showing he can cover 4 and 5 if required. Picking him may free up Kidney to take a different squad split.

Personally I'd feel that the various 'dual' players are the really valuable ones when looking at a tight squad. O'Brien, Leamy, McLaughlin etc. I'd also say that McFaddens kicking along with his cameo performances has given the management options there too.

LuckyGent88 · 07-05-2011 11:50am

copacetic wrote: »

Was impressed by McLaughlin for Leinster last night. He could really have put his hand up for the WC squad by showing he can cover 4 and 5 if required. Picking him may free up Kidney to take a different squad split.

Personally I'd feel that the various 'dual' players are the really valuable ones when looking at a tight squad. O'Brien, Leamy, McLaughlin etc. I'd also say that McFaddens kicking along with his cameo performances has given the management options there too.

Well if you find a video of the penalty Leamy gave away last night you will witness the reason why he cant be selected for the world cup. Absolute stupidity from him.
Ref: "do you want me to give them another 10 meters"
Leamy:" ya" :rolleyes: so the ref obliged with his request.

McLaughlin seems a very good option at the moment.

CouchSmart · 07-05-2011 12:57pm

I'm just going to say it, Leamy shouldn't go to the World Cup - he's been far from his best for years now. My backrow pecking order for Ireland is:

1. Heaslip
2. O'Brien
3. Ferris - if he could get fit.
4. Wallace
5. Jennings
6. McLoughlin
7. Ruddock
8. Coughlan
9. Muldoon
10. Wilson

danthefan · 07-05-2011 1:05pm

Leamy will definitely be going, no point in even discussing otherwise tbh.

If Ferris is fit it'll be Heaslip, SOB, Wallace, Ferris, Leamy + 1.

Imo the +1 should be McLaughlin.

WeeBushy · 07-05-2011 1:06pm

Its interesting how Ruddock is higher up in the pecking order for Ireland than for Leinster. He's been behind Ryan for a lot of the season at Leinster, but he's been capped and involved in training squads over many other Irish back rowers and Ryan who hasn't had any sort of Irish recognition yet.

durkadurka · 07-05-2011 1:29pm

They capped him to nail him down for Ireland.

WeeBushy · 07-05-2011 1:33pm

durkadurka wrote: »

They capped him to nail him down for Ireland.

True, and there were a bunch of injuries so they brought up someone young and talented to give them a bit of experience instead of a 30 something year old. However, he has been involved in training squads throughout the year and is talked about in terms of international recognition on here while say Ryan isn't, despite being behind him at Leinster for much of the season.

I guess he is more physically up to international standard than Ryan is at the moment. Was more just an idle observation than anything serious really.

copacetic · 07-05-2011 2:07pm

danthefan wrote: »

Leamy will definitely be going, no point in even discussing otherwise tbh.

If Ferris is fit it'll be Heaslip, SOB, Wallace, Ferris, Leamy + 1.

Imo the +1 should be McLaughlin.

I'm not as certain on Leamy. With SOB coming through who can cover 8, then it frees up the option of a proper specialist like Jennings along with a back row and lock cover like McLaughlin.

My point above was that these types of players are key, rather than who they are. Eg, I'd prob still bring McLaughlin over MOD if he doesn't make the back row cut. It should let you bring one less. Personally I think Ferris is almost out of the running, he is a starter if fit, but a big risk to find a place for him with his record of injury.

danthefan · 07-05-2011 2:28pm

copacetic wrote: »

I'm not as certain on Leamy. With SOB coming through who can cover 8, then it frees up the option of a proper specialist like Jennings along with a back row and lock cover like McLaughlin.

My point above was that these types of players are key, rather than who they are. Eg, I'd prob still bring McLaughlin over MOD if he doesn't make the back row cut. It should let you bring one less. Personally I think Ferris is almost out of the running, he is a starter if fit, but a big risk to find a place for him with his record of injury.

Kidinme has picked Leamy in every single match day 22 for big games that he's been available for, every single one, hasn't matter what form he's been in. There is no way in hell he's not going to the RWC.

TheHighRoad · 07-05-2011 2:29pm

The sad thing is that Kidney will likely bring his circus of deadweights with him to the world cup. Expect to see: O'Leary, Leamy, Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Flannery (even though he hasnt played all year), Horan, Hayes while players such as Shane Jennings, Connor Murray, Jamie Hagan, Kevin McLoughlin are left at home.

copacetic · 07-05-2011 2:44pm

danthefan wrote: »

Kidinme has picked Leamy in every single match day 22 for big games that he's been available for, every single one, hasn't matter what form he's been in. There is no way in hell he's not going to the RWC.

I think we are at cross purposes. I'm talking about who I think should go being rational, rather than who Kidney will pick.

I'd agree there are a number of players who apparently will have to make it impossible not to pick them to get a seat on the plane, as Ross and O'Brien had to do. The difficulty they had seems even more laughable now.

danthefan · 07-05-2011 2:50pm

copacetic wrote: »

I think we are at cross purposes. I'm talking about who I think should go being rational, rather than who Kidney will pick.

I'd agree there are a number of players who apparently will have to make it impossible not to pick them to get a seat on the plane, as Ross and O'Brien had to do. The difficulty they had seems even more laughable now.

Ross and O'Brien only got a chance because of injury anyway, our friend Leamy was firmly ahead of SOB in November and both Hayes and Buckley ahead of Ross. He's stumbled upon our best team (including Reddan ahead of TOL), unfortunately the same won't happen for the RWC squad.

GerM · 07-05-2011 3:49pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

The sad thing is that Kidney will likely bring his circus of deadweights with him to the world cup. Expect to see: O'Leary, Leamy, Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Flannery (even though he hasnt played all year), Horan, Hayes while players such as Shane Jennings, Connor Murray, Jamie Hagan, Kevin McLoughlin are left at home.

I reckon you're in for a few surprises. Hagan and Murray are out of the equation. Murray didn't even start being picked for Munster until several weeks ago. Hagan should have been looked at but Ross has the 3 jersey locked down now and I don't think Hagan has much of a chance of travelling. He doesn't have the versatility of Court nor the impact that Buckley is capable of in a short period.

I think neither MOD nor Ryan are nailed down. I think it's pretty open there and if I had to guess, MOD won't travel. 3 locks with one lock/flanker to travel is appears to be what Kidney is looking at. Horan doesn't have a prayer of travelling and Hayes is touch and go. It depends whether they take 4 or 5 props and currently I think Hayes could be out of the equation. If he proves some fitness in the warm up games, Flannery should absolutely travel. TOL shouldn't but will.

EDIT: Highly unlikely but I'd love to see DK give a shoot out between Ruddock and Leamy in the warm up games. I don't think Leamy would compare well. His comment last night at the concession of a penalty was ridiculous. He should have been taken aside at half time and absolutely bollocked out of it for being a knob.

danthefan · 07-05-2011 3:57pm

GerM wrote: »

I reckon you're in for a few surprises. Hagan and Murray are out of the equation. Murray didn't even start being picked for Munster until several weeks ago. Hagan should have been looked at but Ross has the 3 jersey locked down now and I don't think Hagan has much of a chance of travelling. He doesn't have the versatility of Court nor the impact that Buckley is capable of in a short period.

I think neither MOD nor Ryan are nailed down. I think it's pretty open there and if I had to guess, MOD won't travel. 3 locks with one lock/flanker to travel is appears to be what Kidney is looking at. Horan doesn't have a prayer of travelling and Hayes is touch and go. It depends whether they take 4 or 5 props and currently I think Hayes could be out of the equation. If he proves some fitness in the warm up games, Flannery should absolutely travel. TOL shouldn't but will.

I would be 99% sure the squad is picked already, with the only question marks over guys who may or may not be fit. There aren't going to be any surprises really I would say.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 07-05-2011 4:11pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Well if you find a video of the penalty Leamy gave away last night you will witness the reason why he cant be selected for the world cup. Absolute stupidity from him.
Ref: "do you want me to give them another 10 meters"
Leamy:" ya" :rolleyes: so the ref obliged with his request.

The ref asked if he wanted to give them 5 or 10 meters. Any ref that asks such a stupid question deserves a smart answer. POC's reaction was hilarious too.

According to the Opta index of the HC going into the Semi Finals, Leamy was the 8th best forward in European competition this year. Not bad for a player playing poorly.

But I guess factsdo nothing to deter people calling for their favourites to be on the plane to the WC. :rolleyes:

Cpt_Blackbeard · 07-05-2011 4:13pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

The sad thing is that Kidney will likely bring his circus of deadweights with him to the world cup. Expect to see: O'Leary, Leamy, Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Flannery (even though he hasnt played all year), Horan, Hayes while players such as Shane Jennings, Connor Murray, Jamie Hagan, Kevin McLoughlin are left at home.

Mind taking off the Blue-tinted specs?

TheHighRoad · 07-05-2011 4:17pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The ref asked if he wanted to give them 5 or 10 meters. Any ref that asks such a stupid question deserves a smart answer. POC's reaction was hilarious too.

According to the Opta index of the HC going into the Semi Finals, Leamy was the 8th best forward in European competition this year. Not bad for a player playing poorly.

But I guess factsdo nothing to deter people calling for their favourites to be on the plane to the WC. :rolleyes:

Well if were going on those statistics then Ian Humphries should be brought ahead of O'Gara for the world cup. POCs reaction was towards Leamy and it wasn't hilarious it was a reaction of disgust.

TheHighRoad · 07-05-2011 4:24pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Mind taking off the Blue-tinted specs?

No. Because I'm right, Hayes, Horan, Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll, O'Leary and an unfit Flannery are all dead weight. Hayes can't scrummage, Horan is finished, Donnacha Ryan isn't even HC standard, Mick O'Driscoll is out of his depth at international level, O'Leary was been terrible for 2 years now and Flannery hasn't even played a game. It would be a joke if they are brought Hagan is much better than Hayes, Horan is not needed with Healy and Court, If Kidney is insistent on bringing a lock/backrow then Kevin McLoughlin is a much better player than Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't be near that plane if we have POC, DOC, Cullen and McLoughlin covering second row, Boss, Reddan and Murray/Stringer should be our scrumhalfs and there is no point in bringing Flannery when he just hasn't played it would be suicidal throwing him into a world cup game. As for Leamy hes completely unneeded considering Ferris, O'Brien and McLoughlin can cover 6 and Heaslip and O'Brien can cover 8, Shane Jennings should go instead. Thats not being biased thats just being honest. I am not bothered looking through your posts to see if I'm right but I guarantee that you are someone who was probably calling for Buckley being picked ahead of Ross and Wallace ahead of O'Brien before they got their chances.......prove me wrong.

Tomtom364 · 07-05-2011 4:29pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

No. Because I'm right, Hayes, Horan, Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll, O'Leary and an unfit Flannery are all dead weight. Hayes can't scrummage, Horan is finished, Donnacha Ryan isn't even HC standard, Mick O'Driscoll is out of his depth at international level, O'Leary was been terrible for 2 years now and Flannery hasn't even played a game. It would be a joke if they are brought Hagan is much better than Hayes, Horan is not needed with Healy and Court, If Kidney is insistent on bringing a lock/backrow then Kevin McLoughlin is a much better player than Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't be near that plane if we have POC, DOC, Cullen and McLoughlin covering second row, Boss, Reddan and Murray/Stringer should be our scrumhalfs and there is no point in bringing Flannery when he just hasn't played it would be suicidal throwing him into a world cup game. As for Leamy hes completely unneeded considering Ferris, O'Brien and McLoughlin can cover 6 and Heaslip and O'Brien can cover 8, Shane Jennings should go instead. Thats not being biased thats just being honest. I am not bothered looking through your posts to see if I'm right but I guarantee that you are someone who was probably calling for Buckley being picked ahead of Ross and Wallace ahead of O'Brien before they got their chances.......prove me wrong.

Not gonna debate who should go (for now).
But could you at least be consistant?

Flans shouldnt go becausehe hasnt come back from injury yet.
Ferris (currently injured) should go ahead of leamy...

sense make none.

TheHighRoad · 07-05-2011 4:33pm

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Not gonna debate who should go (for now).
But could you at least be consistant?

Flans shouldnt go becausehe hasnt come back from injury yet.
Ferris (currently injured) should go ahead of leamy...

sense make none.

Your really equating an 10 week injury with an injury over a year? Theres a huge difference, theres a debate as to whether Flannery will ever actually play again its really not the same or even close.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 07-05-2011 4:38pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

No. Because I'm right, Hayes, Horan, Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll, O'Leary and an unfit Flannery are all dead weight. Hayes can't scrummage, Horan is finished, Donnacha Ryan isn't even HC standard, Mick O'Driscoll is out of his depth at international level, O'Leary was been terrible for 2 years now and Flannery hasn't even played a game. It would be a joke if they are brought Hagan is much better than Hayes, Horan is not needed with Healy and Court, If Kidney is insistent on bringing a lock/backrow then Kevin McLoughlin is a much better player than Donnacha Ryan, Mick O'Driscoll shouldn't be near that plane if we have POC, DOC, Cullen and McLoughlin covering second row, Boss, Reddan and Murray/Stringer should be our scrumhalfs and there is no point in bringing Flannery when he just hasn't played it would be suicidal throwing him into a world cup game. As for Leamy hes completely unneeded considering Ferris, O'Brien and McLoughlin can cover 6 and Heaslip and O'Brien can cover 8, Shane Jennings should go instead. Thats not being biased thats just being honest. I am not bothered looking through your posts to see if I'm right but I guarantee that you are someone who was probably calling for Buckley being picked ahead of Ross and Wallace ahead of O'Brien before they got their chances.......prove me wrong.

Interesting that Hayes and Horan convincingly best Wikinson and Hagan yesterday isn't it? They shouldn't travel though. Hayes has earned his retirement though and Horan is still a handy player to have if needed.

Your opinion of Ryan is baseless. If he was a Leinster Player he would have plenty of HC caps. He is behind 2 Lions captains and MOD who is only a slightly worse player than Cullen and is consistently solid in POC's absence. Ryan is a much better lock than McLoughlin but a much worse backrow, it will be an interesting decision to see who Kidney picks.

Buckley could have been a great player. He is a capable scrummager when being coached by Smal (Playing for Ireland) and is brilliant around the pitch, when interested. Ross is undoubtedly our first choice TH but, he has improved remarkably since the start of the year, as has Healy.

Wallace should be selected ahead of SOB. He is better 7.

No mention of the fact that Fitz and Kearney will be on the plane ahead of much more deserving players? Blue-Tinted Glasses as I said.

danthefan · 07-05-2011 4:45pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The ref asked if he wanted to give them 5 or 10 meters. Any ref that asks such a stupid question deserves a smart answer. POC's reaction was hilarious too.

What absolute rubbish. Leamy should have kept his mouth shut.

TheHighRoad · 07-05-2011 4:49pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Interesting that Hayes and Horan convincingly best Wikinson and Hagan yesterday isn't it?

In the scrums? They didn't best them at all unless you are trying to attribute Munster's win solely down to Hayes and Horan

They shouldn't travel though. Hayes has earned his retirement though and Horan is still a handy player to have if needed.

Hes not needed, hes deadweight

Your opinion of Ryan is baseless. If he was a Leinster Player he would have plenty of HC caps.

This isn't about caps its about what I have seen of him when hes played and hes not even HC standard and definitely behind McLoughlin.

He is behind 2 Lions captains and MOD who is only a slightly worse player than Cullen and is consistently solid in POC's absence.

...........O.K captain

Ryan is a much better lock than McLoughlin but a much worse backrow, it will be an interesting decision to see who Kidney picks.

Whenever I've seen McLoughlin at lock hes been much better than Ryan. You're right about McLoughlin being much better at lock though.

Buckley could have been a great player.

Could have been a great player......is now a reason to bring him to the world cup?

He is a capable scrummager when being coached by Smal (Playing for Ireland)

LOL.

and is brilliant around the pitch, when interested.

What a great attitude he has!

Wallace should be selected ahead of SOB. He is better 7.

Another laughable comment. In case you haven't noticed O'Brien is regarded as the best 7 (best player even!) in the HC on the back of his performances at 7 so far. Such nonsense.

No mention of the fact that Fitz and Kearney will be on the plane ahead of much more deserving players? Blue-Tinted Glasses as I said.

I don't think Kearney will travel but if he does it will only be because of a huge lack of options available and Fitzgerald deserves to be there, hes versatile, hes experienced and hes returning to form as seen in the HC semi against Tolouse. We don't have any other wingers playing at that level currently.

Tomtom364 · 07-05-2011 4:53pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Your really equating an 10 week injury with an injury over a year? Theres a huge difference, theres a debate as to whether Flannery will ever actually play again its really not the same or even close.

Ferris has missed alot of this season. And is on the Currently injured list, till at least middle of June.

I'm not saying he wont get a place. But to say one player shouldnt be included due to current injury/coming back from injury, and that another should be in for sure even though he is injuried currently, is inconsistant.

GerM · 07-05-2011 4:54pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The ref asked if he wanted to give them 5 or 10 meters. Any ref that asks such a stupid question deserves a smart answer. POC's reaction was hilarious too.

No it doesn't. He's the ref and you don't answer him back. You're taught that from day one. To answer him back in a smart ass and undermining manner is just absolutely mindless. Leamy embarrassed himself last night. For a supposed leader and sometimes captain it was really poor.

CatFromHue · 07-05-2011 4:55pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The ref asked if he wanted to give them 5 or 10 meters. Any ref that asks such a stupid question deserves a smart answer. POC's reaction was hilarious too.

According to the Opta index of the HC going into the Semi Finals, Leamy was the 8th best forward in European competition this year. Not bad for a player playing poorly.

But I guess factsdo nothing to deter people calling for their favourites to be on the plane to the WC. :rolleyes:

those stats can be misleading.

did you check the leading backs. sexton no. 1, ian humphreys no. 3, rog no. 6.

well thats the out half and back up for ireland sorted then. with wallace being the third outhalf to go to the world cup rog can have the summer off:cool:

CIARAN_BOYLE · 07-05-2011 5:37pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

those stats can be misleading.

did you check the leading backs. sexton no. 1, ian humphreys no. 3, rog no. 6.

well thats the out half and back up for ireland sorted then. with wallace being the third outhalf to go to the world cup rog can have the summer off:cool:

From my understanding of those stats you lose points for a missed tackle, while if you don't bother to attempt a tackle your points count stays the same. In the case of two OHs who can't defend well, the one that tries to defend (ROG) will lose points.

ROG doesn't tackle well but you can see the fight in the dog defensively. He gets involved even if he is only a speed bump slowing people down allowing someone else to get a tackle in. That would be counted as a loss of points for the Index.

CatFromHue · 07-05-2011 5:46pm

exactly!

thats why when reading stats like that you have to know how to interept and understand them. just reading then blindly is no good.

i agree about o gara. his technique is routinely awful but i respect him for trying all the same. the times he gets it right it tends to be over looked in favour of showing the times he gets steam rolled.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 07-05-2011 6:02pm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

....

You win.

There is no point arguing with someone who won't listen to reason, or any other points of view for that matter.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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