Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

ironingbored

MaryKing wrote: »

I would have imagined that the starting br would have been Ferris/Wallace/Heaslip, with Sean O'Brien being sub who at least has played all positions in the backrow once in the last year or so.

Imagine away.

This is one of the most non-sensical posts I think I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

You're saying Ireland should have kept the best player in Europe this season on the bench! :rolleyes:

Imagine New Zealand benching Kieran Read just because Kaino and Vito have played more of the back row positions!

Absolute hogwash Mary.

Podge_irl

ironingbored wrote: »

Imagine away.

This is one of the most non-sensical posts I think I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

You're saying Ireland should have kept the best player in Europe this season on the bench! :rolleyes:

Imagine New Zealand not benching Kieran Read just because Kaino and Vito have played more of the back row positions!

Absolute hogwash Mary.

Actually, I would have expected the same as her. You simply can't not play Ferris if he's fit and Wallace is a better fit for 7 then SOB is in many ways.

wixfjord

Podge_irl wrote: »

Actually, I would have expected the same as her. You simply can't not play Ferris if he's fit and Wallace is a better fit for 7 then SOB is in many ways.

Eh?! Play Ferris, who has barely played all year, and drop SOB, the best player in Europe?
Why is Ferris undroppable?
I can't understand that logic.

I would say that you simply can't drop SOB if he's fit tbh.

ironingbored

Podge_irl wrote: »

Actually, I would have expected the same as her. You simply can't not play Ferris if he's fit and Wallace is a better fit for 7 then SOB is in many ways.

SOB must start end of.

It was either bench Wallace or Ferris. But I suppose it's a non-argument now with Wallace out.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Ferris at his best is a better player than SOB, he has a much more rounded games. SOB's carrying is obviously phenominal but, Ferris' defense and hitting of rucks would be much more suited to start a game whereas SOB's carrying would be more destructive against a tiring team. Were Wallace fit, his carrying would easily have covered for SOB's omission.

It would be almost sinful to have dropped SOB but, it would have been acceptable were Ferris not crocked. As his knees are fcuked, Ferris would have benched imo. We don't have that issue anymore now that Wallace is injured. The priority has to be to get 3 fit standout backrows on the pitch.

Podge_irl

As you say though, Ferris has barely played all year or could well have been the best player in Europe himself. He's an absolute beast of a player and has shown more on the international stage then SOB has yet. If he's fit and in form then I just don't see how you can leave him out.

wixfjord

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Ferris at his best is a better player than SOB, he has a much more rounded games. SOB's carrying is obviously phenominal but, Ferris' defense and hitting of rucks would be much more suited to start a game whereas SOB's carrying would be more destructive against a tiring team. Were Wallace fit, his carrying would easily have covered for SOB's omission.

It would be almost sinful to have dropped SOB but, it would have been acceptable were Ferris not crocked. As his knees are fcuked, Ferris would have benched imo. We don't have that issue anymore now that Wallace is injured. The priority has to be to get 3 fit standout backrows on the pitch.

Ferris isn't near his best though, and may never be, while SOB is the form player in the NH, never mind Ireland.

Which brings me on to another issue. We really need to start using our backrow better, and getting them running onto ball from deep. Ferris SOB and Heaslip is probably the best carrying backrow in the tournament, and should be used as such. Switch angles, offloads, lineouts and as decoys. Seriously hope Uncle Gaffney has a few plans up his sleeve for this.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Actually, I would have expected the same as her. You simply can't not play Ferris if he's fit and Wallace is a better fit for 7 then SOB is in many ways.

Yes you can. SOB with a season of rugby in great form > Ferris just back from injury with no form to speak of, that's pretty obvious. If Ferris shows himself fully fit and in form then yes, he's a guaranteed starter, but he doesn't make the team just by virtue of being fit.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Ferris at his best

I stopped reading. He's played one game in about 9 months.

tayto lover

Would the best player in Europe be as good as any of the starting 15 of a team representing the Southern Hemisphere ? Just interested as i am not really knowledgeable on Rugby but realise that the S. Hemisphere players are very good.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

Yes you can. SOB with a season of rugby in great form > Ferris just back from injury with no form to speak of, that's pretty obvious. If Ferris shows himself fully fit and in form then yes, he's a guaranteed starter, but he doesn't make the team just by virtue of being fit.

I meant to say fit and in form. You're right, obviously, simply being fit isn't enough. And it's impossible to tell at the moment as he hasn't played enough. He played as well in the warm-ups as SOB did really.

Hagz

tayto lover wrote: »

Would the best player in Europe be as good as any of the starting 15 of a team representing the Southern Hemisphere ? Just interested as i am not really knowledgeable on Rugby but realise that the S. Hemisphere players are very good.

What do you mean by best payer in Europe, do you mean would any of the Europe XV be ahead of the SH XV? Or do you mean is SOB better than all his SH counter-parts?

If it's the former, then yes. Parisse, Harinordoquy and Heaslip are better than their SH counter parts, although some would say Reid is better than Heaslip. Which is something I would disagree with everytime. Also, on current form you could argue that SOB is better than Burger, but only if you base it on current form. Lawes would also make it in, as would a LH.

If it's the latter you mean, then based on current form SOB is the best 6. Elsom has been slumping for quite some time, Kaino has been solid but no where near as strong as SOB has been, and Burger has had a quite season. But if you're not talking about current form then Elsom and Burger are ahead of SOB.

bm1993

Jesus, anyone who thinks SOB shouldn't start would want their head checked. After BOD, Mike Ross and perhaps POC SOB is our most important player. He's undoubtedly one of the top 5 or 6 back rows in Europe ffs. FWIW I would put Ferris at 4 SOB at 6 Jennings 7 and Heaslip 8. I would rather put Ferris or Heaslip at 7 than SOB.

PhatPiggins

Yes and maybe we should put O'Brien at hooker and Cronin at 12 for impact. Ferris at 4 Talk about getting a race horse to pull a plough.

I'm fairly sure the 'rest' SOB stuff is because he might be a slight injury concern. Jennings/Leamy/Ryan are there as cannon fodder and should be used accordingly

danthefan

I've no bother with SOB not playing tomorrow anyway. Give him 20 mins off the bench maybe to stretch his legs because he missed the England game.

Taco Corp

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup/2011/0907/obrien_worldcup.html

"If there aren't any holes, I'll just have to make one."

With an attitude like that, I hope SOB starts every game

Hermy

I thought it said "...flattering opponents...":o

bm1993

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Yes and maybe we should put O'Brien at hooker and Cronin at 12 for impact. Ferris at 4 Talk about getting a race horse to pull a plough.

I'm fairly sure the 'rest' SOB stuff is because he might be a slight injury concern. Jennings/Leamy/Ryan are there as cannon fodder and should be used accordingly

Well it's better to have a racehorse pulling a plough than stuck in a stable. Explain to me why Ferris can't play 4:rolleyes:

PhatPiggins

bm1993 wrote: »

Well it's better to have a racehorse pulling a plough than stuck in a stable. Explain to me why Ferris can't play 4:rolleyes:

I'm sure BOD would do a job at 7 as well.

You've obviously seen a lot of Ferris at 6, why the feck would you even dream of moving him to 4?

CIARAN_BOYLE

bm1993 wrote: »

Well it's better to have a racehorse pulling a plough than stuck in a stable. Explain to me why Ferris can't play 4:rolleyes:

1. BR and lock are different positions. The RWC is not a good place to experiment.
2. Ferris has history of knee trouble and has little or no cartilage in one knee. I had an injury from MA that resulted in me losing a little cartilage in one knee and I was given a list of several activities that I could never do again. Heavy jump training such as that needed for High Jump, Long Jump, Triple Jump and signicant line out work for rugby was one of the list. I imagine relying on Ferris in the lineout is asking to break Ferris again. Can we play with just one lineout lock. The only jumper in the backrow you suggest is Heaslip and he isn't great.

MaryKing

ironingbored wrote: »

Imagine away.

This is one of the most non-sensical posts I think I've ever had the displeasure of seeing.

You're saying Ireland should have kept the best player in Europe this season on the bench! :rolleyes:

Imagine New Zealand benching Kieran Read just because Kaino and Vito have played more of the back row positions!

Absolute hogwash Mary.

SOB did not win player of the 6Ns - Masi did (Fabio Semenzato was 2nd, with SOB & Toby Flood joint 3rd). This is international level.

Anthony Foley was selected as the best No. 8 over the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup - this was ahead of Laurence Dallaglio who won 2 Heineken Cups, a world cup and was finalist in a 2nd world cup! I don't think anyone thought that Anthony Foley was undroppable at any stage of his career either for club or country.

European/club does not equal international.

wixfjord

MaryKing wrote: »

SOB did not win player of the 6Ns - Masi did (Fabio Semenzato was 2nd, with SOB & Toby Flood joint 3rd). This is international level.

Anthony Foley was selected as the best No. 8 over the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup - this was ahead of Laurence Dallaglio who won 2 Heineken Cups, a world cup and was finalist in a 2nd world cup! I don't think anyone thought that Anthony Foley was undroppable at any stage of his career either for club or country.

European/club does not equal international.

Dead right, none of the three others on that list would get near the Irish, or Leinster team for that matter.

I don't how that relates to your point about SOB though, was Ferris or Wallace nominated for either award?

bm1993

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'm sure BOD would do a job at 7 as well.

You've obviously seen a lot of Ferris at 6, why the feck would you even dream of moving him to 4?

Actually BOD probably would do a job at 7. Undoubtedly Ferris is a great 6. But at the moment SOB is a better 6. So therefore I would rather see Ferris on the pitch than on the bench and I think he would bring more to no 4 than DOC.

But if he can't play 4 because his knee is that badly banjaxed then fair enough

David900

MaryKing wrote: »

SOB did not win player of the 6Ns - Masi did (Fabio Semenzato was 2nd, with SOB & Toby Flood joint 3rd). This is international level.

Am I missing something here? You're trying to argue that SOBs award for best European player of the year does not necessarily mean he is international standard, but to make this point you highlight he is joint third best player in this years 6Ns....

Hagz

MaryKing wrote: »

SOB did not win player of the 6Ns - Masi did (Fabio Semenzato was 2nd, with SOB & Toby Flood joint 3rd). This is international level.
.

Woah! Hold on a second. Are you saying that SOB isn't the best 6 in Europe right now? Who is? Tom Croft? Danny Lydiate? Kelly Brown? Thierry Dusatoir?

No, it's SOB. A fit Ferris would run him close sure, but a fit Ferris does not exist at the moment.

And that 6N player accolade was always going to be given to an Italian, because they beat France. The fact that Masi won it was a charity case. He got it because of his performance at 15 in that game. Not that I would take it away from him, but going on your argument, you've just said that Masi is more up to it at international level than SOB is, which is a joke of a statement.

PhatPiggins

bm1993 wrote: »

Actually BOD probably would do a job at 7. Undoubtedly Ferris is a great 6. But at the moment SOB is a better 6. So therefore I would rather see Ferris on the pitch than on the bench and I think he would bring more to no 4 than DOC.

But if he can't play 4 because his knee is that badly banjaxed then fair enough

Ferris will never be on the bench if fully fit. I can understand your mentality of playing him at 4 if we had Wallace available but for me putting Ferris in 4 to accomodate Jennings is out of the question.

irishbucsfan

Ferris will never play 4. Why do people keep saying he will.

He certainly isn't going to be thrown in there without playing there at a lower level first.

bm1993

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Ferris will never be on the bench if fully fit. I can understand your mentality of playing him at 4 if we had Wallace available but for me putting Ferris in 4 to accomodate Jennings is out of the question.

But who would you rather in the team DOC or Jennings? For me it's Jennings especially against the Aussies or Boks.

vinny chase

bm1993 wrote: »

But who would you rather in the team DOC or Jennings? For me it's Jennings especially against the Aussies or Boks.

That's like asking who do you prefer more, DOC or Mike Ross? Apples and oranges.

PhatPiggins

bm1993 wrote: »

But who would you rather in the team DOC or Jennings? For me it's Jennings especially against the Aussies or Boks.

Thats not even a question. Doc is a better second row then Ferris could ever could be (especially in the space of 10 days) and Ferris is a better backrow then Jennings is.

vinny chase

vinny chase wrote: »

That's like asking who do you prefer more, DOC or Mike Ross? Apples and oranges.

Mike Ross, the shape of an apple
DOC, the tint of an orange.

I like it