Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Hagz

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see people criticize Jenning's performance against France. After what has been revealed, how can you?

-Firstly the guy was playing his first game since coming back from a broken arm.

-Secondly, he was ill several days before the game

-Thirdly, nobody played well against France, and to say he was the worst is ridiculous.

-And Fourth, THE GUY WAS TOLD HE WASN'T GOING. How do you not get that? He was running out onto the pitch fully aware that his performance, no matter how brilliant, would not get him on that plane.

Jennings is not better than David Wallace, and I'm upset that Wally won't travel, but Jennings deserves his seat. Especially when you consider that Leamy and Ryan are going. Not that both of those guys haven't played decent in the warm-ups.

Jennings should either start or bench, it's as simple as that. We know damn well what impact he can have on the game. And we know what impact Leamy has. Start SOB, FEZ and Heaslip, and then bring on Jennings. Simples.

MaryKing

Deleted User wrote: »

what could possibly have changed it?

Perhaps Ryan's incredible run of form that saw him scoring trys, winning MotM awards, knocking players back in tackles, being involved in lineout steals or even securing our own ball at lineout time. Perhaps seeing him offer himself up in link play in the midfield, or making ground, or making a try saving tackle, or shunting a maul into touch for us to make a turnover. Or maybe seeing him actually present a ball for quick recycling which lead to a decent opportunity for us to use the ball?

Perhaps, but literally none of those things has happened since I made that post.

Not one.

So, which of the squad players (those not obviously in the starting 15) are doing all of those things that you mention above?

MaryKing

MaryKing wrote: »

So, which of the squad players (those not obviously not in the starting 15) are doing all of those things that you mention above?

I didn't ask for all of those things, I know we don't have world beaters in every position. Just an example of one of the above criteria for a player making an impact would be enough to get us excited about them.

D.Ryan hasn't had a meaningful impact on a game since he's been a professional. Compare Ryan off the bench vs anyone, vs Jennings off the bench in the HEC final.

Realise which one was in the original panel, and which one wasn't.

I'm finished responding to you on this topic btw, it will only drive me demented.

MaryKing

Hagz wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see people criticize Jenning's performance against France. After what has been revealed, how can you?

-Firstly the guy was playing his first game since coming back from a broken arm.

-Secondly, he was ill several days before the game

-Thirdly, nobody played well against France, and to say he was the worst is ridiculous.

-And Fourth, THE GUY WAS TOLD HE WASN'T GOING. How do you not get that? He was running out onto the pitch fully aware that his performance, no matter how brilliant, would not get him on that plane.

Jennings is not better than David Wallace, and I'm upset that Wally won't travel, but Jennings deserves his seat. Especially when you consider that Leamy and Ryan are going. Not that both of those guys haven't played decent in the warm-ups.

Jennings should either start or bench, it's as simple as that. We know damn well what impact he can have on the game. And we know what impact Leamy has. Start SOB, FEZ and Heaslip, and then bring on Jennings. Simples.

I think he is a professional rugby player who has had to deal with being dropped in the past. For instance, he must have felt disappointed that he didn't start the Heineken Cup Final - yet he came on and played a blinder.

I don't think anyone has a problem with him going to the world cup. And in my opinion, unless he is starting at 7, he won't be in the match day squad because of his lack of physicality.

I can definately see him starting against USA & Russia as I think Sean O'Brien won't be fit for the US game.

shuffol

Donnacha Ryan unfortunately falls into the same category as TOL. He's a test level athete but doesnt have the requisite skills or intelligence for test rugby. Its a pity because after the Munster-All Blacks game I thought he'd challenge DOC for his Munster and Irish place.
Kidney certainly gave him every opportunity to play himself into the WC squad, Mclaughlin or McCarthy didnt get afforded the same opportunity even though McCarthy impressed me more in his outing against Scotland than Ryan did in any of his.

Podge_irl

shuffol wrote: »

Donnacha Ryan unfortunately falls into the same category as TOL. He's a test level athete but doesnt have the requisite skills or intelligence for test rugby.

I think he might have developed them if he had played more high-level games for Munster. Getting such little HEC gametime can't have helped his game to grow much.

MaryKing

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't ask for all of those things, I know we don't have world beaters in every position. Just an example of one of the above criteria for a player making an impact would be enough to get us excited about them.

D.Ryan hasn't had a meaningful impact on a game since he's been a professional. Compare Ryan off the bench vs anyone, vs Jennings off the bench in the HEC final.

Realise which one was in the original panel, and which one wasn't.

I'm finished responding to you on this topic btw, it will only drive me demented.

I can't remember Leo Cullen having much of an impact in a long time on any game and he is going. The same can be said about Tom Court who is going, Jerry Flannery, Rory Best among others. Jamie Heaslip didn't make an impact either.

Only players that stands out for me of making an impact off the bench are Paul O'Connell and Stephen Ferris.

MaryKing

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think he might have developed them if he had played more high-level games for Munster. Getting such little HEC gametime can't have helped his game to grow much.

You should also remember that Ryan was a late starter - he took up rugby at 18.

last one so.

Leo Cullen vs France (long time ago, but obvious example)
Tom Court has had plenty of big games for Ulster, carrying ball hugely. Tighthead props are not very visible though.
Jerry Flannery? You have to be joking with this...
Rory Best - Watch the Ireland vs Scotland game from the 6N, himself, Grey and ROG were the best players on the pitch that day.
Heaslip - no impact - Christ

Podge_irl

MaryKing wrote: »

You should also remember that Ryan was a late starter - he took up rugby at 18.

Doesn't make much difference to the fact he's largely sat on his arse for the last 6 years at Munster. Complete waste of a talent. Leinster should have picked him up years ago instead of going through a revolving door of useless second rows.

MaryKing

Podge_irl wrote: »

Doesn't make much difference to the fact he's largely sat on his arse for the last 6 years at Munster. Complete waste of a talent. Leinster should have picked him up years ago instead of going through a revolving door of useless second rows.

I believe Cheika spotted him playing for Shannon against UCD and tried to bring him to Leinster (according to a recent profile of him in I think the Irish Times). Around the time that Trevor Hogan came to Leinster.

He also missed a huge opportunity of getting game time being injured the same time as Paul O'Connell. (He got injured in the same 6Ns as Paul did and was out for the rest of the season).

MaryKing

Deleted User wrote: »

last one so.

Leo Cullen vs France (long time ago, but obvious example)
Tom Court has had plenty of big games for Ulster, carrying ball hugely. Tighthead props are not very visible though.
Jerry Flannery? You have to be joking with this...
Rory Best - Watch the Ireland vs Scotland game from the 6N, himself, Grey and ROG were the best players on the pitch that day.
Heaslip - no impact - Christ

I'm referring to the recent international world cup warm-up games - not 2 years ago.

danthefan

Hagz wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see people criticize Jenning's performance against France. After what has been revealed, how can you?

-Firstly the guy was playing his first game since coming back from a broken arm.

-Secondly, he was ill several days before the game

-Thirdly, nobody played well against France, and to say he was the worst is ridiculous.

-And Fourth, THE GUY WAS TOLD HE WASN'T GOING. How do you not get that? He was running out onto the pitch fully aware that his performance, no matter how brilliant, would not get him on that plane.

Jennings is not better than David Wallace, and I'm upset that Wally won't travel, but Jennings deserves his seat. Especially when you consider that Leamy and Ryan are going. Not that both of those guys haven't played decent in the warm-ups.

Jennings should either start or bench, it's as simple as that. We know damn well what impact he can have on the game. And we know what impact Leamy has. Start SOB, FEZ and Heaslip, and then bring on Jennings. Simples.

I will qualify this post by saying I'm a Leinster fan and I'm a massive fan of Jennings, he's unbelievable for Leinster.

However.

The France game completely passed him by. I don't believe the fact he knew he wasn't going would make any difference, he'd have given it 100% either way, and to suggest otherwise is basically calling him unprofessional.

I watched him closely enough because I was really delighted he got a start in a full strength team for once and he just did not get involved like usual. He seemed to stay away from rucks for whatever reason. I'd start him against USA or Russia no bother but I would not start him against Aus or Italy.



On the Donnacha Ryan "debate", his track record speaks for itself. He has only ever shown himself to be a decent ML player. He has one start in his life in the HEC and he got dropped for the next game. He had to play backrow against England and our backrow simply got destroyed. If you look at what he's done then he doesn't really deserve to go to the RWC but two massive things went in his favour - first was that there was only one viable alternative to him in the squad, that was McLaughlin, and he's primarily a 6 and we definitely did not need another 6 in the squad, and secondly Kidney knows him and he knows Kidney.

bamboozle

MaryKing wrote: »

I'm referring to the recent international world cup warm-up games - not 2 years ago.

Yet you highlight Donncadh Ryan's performance for Munster against the AB's many moons ago to big him up...

MaryKing

bamboozle wrote: »

Yet you highlight Donncadh Ryan's performance for Munster against the AB's many moons ago to big him up...

No I wasn't. I was responding to this post:

Originally Posted by Deleted User
what could possibly have changed it?

Perhaps Ryan's incredible run of form that saw him scoring trys, winning MotM awards, knocking players back in tackles, being involved in lineout steals or even securing our own ball at lineout time. Perhaps seeing him offer himself up in link play in the midfield, or making ground, or making a try saving tackle, or shunting a maul into touch for us to make a turnover. Or maybe seeing him actually present a ball for quick recycling which lead to a decent opportunity for us to use the ball?

Perhaps, but literally none of those things has happened since I made that post.

Not one.

No reference whatsoever to the ABs game.

ambid

Hagz wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see people criticize Jenning's performance against France. After what has been revealed, how can you?

-Firstly the guy was playing his first game since coming back from a broken arm.

-Secondly, he was ill several days before the game

-Thirdly, nobody played well against France, and to say he was the worst is ridiculous.

-And Fourth, THE GUY WAS TOLD HE WASN'T GOING. How do you not get that? He was running out onto the pitch fully aware that his performance, no matter how brilliant, would not get him on that plane.

Jennings is not better than David Wallace, and I'm upset that Wally won't travel, but Jennings deserves his seat. Especially when you consider that Leamy and Ryan are going. Not that both of those guys haven't played decent in the warm-ups.

Jennings should either start or bench, it's as simple as that. We know damn well what impact he can have on the game. And we know what impact Leamy has. Start SOB, FEZ and Heaslip, and then bring on Jennings. Simples.

This post is absolutely correct in my opinion. It's very unfair to criticise Jennings performance against France.

WeeBushy

ambid wrote: »

This post is absolutely correct in my opinion. It's very unfair to criticise Jennings performance against France.

Exactly. And the whole back row is covered for injuries if Jennings is on the bench.

Jennings -> O'Brien
Jennings -> Ferris (move SOB to 6)
Jennings -> Heaslip (move SOb to 8)

Leamy -> O'Brien (who plays 7?)
Leamy -> Ferris
Leamy -> Heaslip

phog

Murray living the Ireland dream

HURLING yourself off a ledge on the side of a mountain makes for an exhilarating descent, as long as you’re attached to a bungee cord, but for a young scrum-half thrown into a World Cup campaign, the ascents tend to be just as thrilling.

That is certainly the case for Conor Murray, who just 10 months ago was making his first start for Munster in his final year in the academy set-up and now finds himself in contention for the Ireland No. 9 jersey for the Pool C opening game against the United States on Sunday.

For now, though, the 22-year-old from Patrickswell, Limerick, is enjoying the attractions of Queenstown, Ireland’s pre-tournament base in New Zealand’s South Island, where the players have been given a little free time between training to explore some of the safer adventure sports on offer ahead of today’s first full-contact training session.

"It’s one of the cooler places," Murray said on Sunday, "with lots to do here so I am really enjoying it. We had an activity day Saturday, a little bit of jet-boating, bungee jumping and we went up the gondola thing as well, and the luge thing. It was great craic. About eight of us did the bungee. It was my first and it was some rush."

Murray’s rise to Ireland’s World Cup campaign was the big surprise at Declan Kidney’s squad announcement two weeks ago, coming at the expense of fellow Munster scrum-half Tomás O’Leary, and the sudden elevation in status is only now beginning to dawn on him. In fact, it was all his house-mates — Munster players Mike Sherry, Declan Cusack, Paddy Butler and Dave Kilcoyne — could do to get a smile out of him when the call came.

"The enormity of it is hitting me since we arrived here. Before when I found out, I had no emotion, it didn’t really hit me at all. I was just at home with the lads I live with and they were physically shaking me, trying to get me excited. It’s definitely starting to hit me now and I’m looking forward to it."

Murray has made a big impression on the senior Munster players since Tony McGahan put his faith in the young scrum-half at the end of last season, to a man praising his composure and the sense that he plays as if he has been operating at the highest level for a long time. Asked if he is as calm and comfortable as he appears to his team-mates, the half-back betrayed huge self-confidence in his response. "Yeah, even talking with Deccie before, rugby isn’t that different when you go up the levels, obviously it gets a bit quicker and you make quicker decisions but if your basics are good... obviously you have to have some bit of skill to be able to play at another level but I find it okay at the moment. I’m sure I have to be tested yet but so far, so good."

Nerves on his Ireland debut last month were inevitable but Murray’s position demands an instant command of the game and that means barking orders at players with considerable achievements on their CVs, including his Munster and Ireland out-half Ronan O’Gara.

"I think you have to, you can’t be intimidated by anyone on your team. Playing with him at Munster has really stood to me, he’s great to play with. He barks at me, I bark at him but it works really well. It was a bit daunting at the start, my first game against Cardiff with ROG at 10 but it was just to get it over with, get a game under my belt playing with him. But I enjoy playing with him, same with Johnny (Sexton), I had 20 minutes with him against England so it’s good to get that game time under your belt."

Murray, who won the Munster Academy player of the year award last season, has also been in contact with his provincial coach, Tony McGahan, during his time preparing for the World Cup at Carton House. And no doubt McGahan will have reinforced Murray’s belief that he is every bit as worthy of a starting place against the USA this weekend as his scrum-half rivals Eoin Reddan and Isaac Boss.

"First of all I was delighted to get into the squad, of course," Murray said.

"But you see other players that are over here and you know they are going to get game time and you want to be like them, you want to train as hard as you can and if you get on the pitch, then great. I’m just going to focus on my game and do as well as I can and if I get a bit of game time, great. I’m really going to try and get some game time over here, it would be great."




Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/murray-living-the-ireland-dream-166639.html#ixzz1X9pJscLZ

bamboozle

MaryKing wrote: »

No I wasn't. I was responding to this post:



No reference whatsoever to the ABs game.

a quote from your post 1150

As for the introduction of Ryan into this debate - similar situation to 25 year old Fergus McFadden who is behind three internationals/Lions in his club (2 centres, wing). Ryan also missed most of a season through an injury (I think he broke his leg/arm in 6Ns). And he can attempt to play two positions - lock and 6, unlike Shane Jennings who can only play one. He also played very well against the All Blacks when they played Munster a few years back, so he can lift his game.

Hayley1

Ireland have to concentrate on the other three games and forget about Austalia.

grohlisagod

Hayley1 wrote: »

Ireland have to concentrate on the other three games and forget about Austalia.

I agree that a little too much emphasis is being placed on the Australia and that the other games are every bit as important, but I think to say that we should write the game off is going too far. For me, the Italy game is the crucial game but the Australia game has to be targeted as it's our first chance to make a real statement. Also, funny things can happen at World Cups. On a wet night in North Harbour, Italy could well beat the Ozzies. Scrum dominance, Cooper's dodgy kicking, a wet ball, stranger things have happened. So it's quite possible that if we forget about the Australia game we could find ourselves in a situation where a win over Italy isn't enough for us to qualify. It's quite easy to envisage a situation where Italy beat us too. Every game has to approached in the correct, committed way.

Ireland have to concentrate on the US game and forget about the others.

Then when that game is over they've to concentrate on the next etc. There are very few forgone conclusions in Rugby Competitions.

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

There are very few forgone conclusions in Rugby Competitions.

There are loads actually. Ireland are going to beat USA and Russia. NZ will tonk Tonga etc. There is reasonably little scope for upsets.

Ireland can concentrate on Aus just fine. They have two weeks off before facing Italy and can put out a shadow side against Russia.

Hayley1

"shadow side against Russia."
Are you joking ! Ireland have to win this game (4 Tries) 5 Points.

danthefan

Hayley1 wrote: »

"shadow side against Russia."
Are you joking ! Ireland have to win this game (4 Tries) 5 Points.

Not really, bonus points aren't going to matter a toss. The first team have to get a rest. The Russia game is the sensible time to give it to them.

Podge_irl

Hayley1 wrote: »

"shadow side against Russia."
Are you joking ! Ireland have to win this game (4 Tries) 5 Points.

Yes. But it's Russia. They are quite close to the worst team in the competition.

Also, as mentioned bonus points won't matter a toss.

GerM

Hayley1 wrote: »

"shadow side against Russia."
Are you joking ! Ireland have to win this game (4 Tries) 5 Points.

Russia are useless at this level. Our second string side should put 4 tries past them. The Dragons second string put 6 on them. Regardless, as Dan says, bonus points aren't going to matter in our group barring a very, very unlikely set of results.

Hayley1

Ireland have to win USA, Russia and Italy and give the 2nd string players a run at Australia.
We have to ensure getting through the group stage.

Podge_irl

Hayley1 wrote: »

Ireland have to win USA, Russia and Italy and give the 2nd string players a run at Australia.
We have to ensure getting through the group stage.

What a pile of nonsense. Ireland will beat Russia handily with their second string side. I'd expect a third string side to win easily enough. They'll go all out to beat Aus, and rightly so. The Italy game is two weeks after the Aus game, plenty of time for a rest (before playing a team who have never managed to beat Ireland in the professional era).

thomond2006

Hayley1 wrote: »

Ireland have to win USA, Russia and Italy and give the 2nd string players a run at Australia.
We have to ensure getting through the group stage.

Dear lord that's negative.