Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

MaryKing

durkadurka wrote: »

I've been to queenstown and its not at 12000 feet or anything.

Edit: Wikipedia says it's at 1157 feet which is not that high.

No, its not very high. But its in the middle of a mountain range and there is a photo of O'Gara & Tommy Bowe in a chairlift ascending some mountain!

duckysauce

this was the start of the alt sickness as you can see he is getting giddy

GerM

duckysauce wrote: »

this was the start of the alt sickness as you can see he is getting giddy
http://www.inpho.ie/app/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/wa/p?cl=kcpzqpnhK7CK1U8X4_U_Nw..a&ts=vC_nXJb9Csk1I9yQeD4x8OQQdD-ud3TB32yrmz9wJqk.a

That's the street luge on the hill behind the town. You've to get a chair lift up there to come down a steep hill on what's essentially a non-motorised go kart. Some of the most fun you can have with your clothes on!

mrboswell

theboss80 wrote: »

So with our games n the pools on at weekends are we gonna be getting team announcements as usual on Thursdays? and if so what time will they be at I'm wondering?

Team announcement for the 1st match is Friday the 9th. Press conference scheduled for 13.15 local time, so makes that 12.15 at night here?? All the announcements are at 13.15 local.

Dates of the other team announcements are: Weds 14th, Fri 23rd, Fri 30th.

molloyjh

MaryKing wrote: »

So you don't think Shane Jennings is intelligent enough to figure out if he wasn't getting any start against a major team in the warm up games prior to squad selection that his chances were going to be limited getting to the world cup?

The point isn't whether Jenno figured it out before he was told or not. The point is he was never given an opportunity to show what he could do. And making a decision on a guy without really seeing him play is daft. And the only reason he got game time against the French was because Wally had to pull out with a hamstring strain (it was hamstring wasn't it?).

MaryKing wrote: »

Its unfortunate that neither Geordan or Shane got a huge amount of game time - coming back from injury didn't help them.

Yet other injured players like Fez, Wally, Fla, Bowe, Drico and Kearney weren't similarly affected. To be honest this only goes to prove the point that there was no real competition there and that Jenno and Murphy were never really in with a shot. We only saw them play after injuries ruled other people out and they are only on the plane because of those injuries too.

MaryKing wrote: »

Sean O'Brien will be selected ahead of Shane Jennings and rightly so against Australia.

That's what worries me. We'll take our best ball carrier and put him at open-side, thus reducing his impact. SOB should be at 6 not 7. Jenno may not be up to international level. We don't know because we haven't seen much of him at this level (I'd have faith in the guy but then I am somewhat biased). But playing the European Player of the Year out of position has to be viewed as poor decision making. And against the Aussies we need to target their breakdown. We need to prevent them getting quick ball at all costs. Our one and only down and dirty 7 is Jenno. If he can do the business he could be vital against Australia.

MaryKing

molloyjh wrote: »

The point isn't whether Jenno figured it out before he was told or not. The point is he was never given an opportunity to show what he could do. And making a decision on a guy without really seeing him play is daft. And the only reason he got game time against the French was because Wally had to pull out with a hamstring strain (it was hamstring wasn't it?).

Was he fit enough to play Scotland (when Mick McCarthy, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy and Kevin McLaughlin were involved)?

Yet other injured players like Fez, Wally, Fla, Bowe, Drico and Kearney weren't similarly affected. To be honest this only goes to prove the point that there was no real competition there and that Jenno and Murphy were never really in with a shot. We only saw them play after injuries ruled other people out and they are only on the plane because of those injuries too.

All of those players are proven internationals (grand slam winners) who have been called up for the Lions. That was stiff competition for Jennings.

That's what worries me. We'll take our best ball carrier and put him at open-side, thus reducing his impact. SOB should be at 6 not 7. Jenno may not be up to international level. We don't know because we haven't seen much of him at this level (I'd have faith in the guy but then I am somewhat biased). But playing the European Player of the Year out of position has to be viewed as poor decision making. And against the Aussies we need to target their breakdown. We need to prevent them getting quick ball at all costs. Our one and only down and dirty 7 is Jenno. If he can do the business he could be vital against Australia.

I think Stephen Ferris is highly rated as an international openside, not just at Heineken Cup Level. Jennings didn't do the business again France when he got his chance. I'm sure he is counting himself very lucky to be in New Zealand at David Wallace's expense and I'm sure he will give it his all now that he has been given a chance.

bamboozle

MaryKing wrote: »

Was he fit enough to play Scotland (when Mick McCarthy, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy and Kevin McLaughlin were involved)?

All of those players are proven internationals (grand slam winners) who have been called up for the Lions. That was stiff competition for Jennings.

I think Stephen Ferris is highly rated as an international openside, not just at Heineken Cup Level. Jennings didn't do the business again France when he got his chance. I'm sure he is counting himself very lucky to be in New Zealand at David Wallace's expense and I'm sure he will give it his all now that he has been given a chance.

eh no he's not, he's a blindside, at very best a stop gap at 7 where EOS tried him a few times many moons ago.

ps Felix Jones certainly didnt do the business against France, yet barring injury he was on the plane. Jennings might be counting himself lucky to be in NZ at Wallace's expense, however he can certainly count himself very unlucky not to have been origionally selected at Ryan or Leamys expense.
Ryan once again displayed against england why he's only started 1 HC game at the age of 27, carried the ball 4 times, twice he was penalised for not releasing.

tolosenc

MaryKing wrote: »

Was he fit enough to play Scotland (when Mick McCarthy, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy and Kevin McLaughlin were involved)?

MaryKing

bamboozle wrote: »

eh no he's not, he's a blindside, at very best a stop gap at 7 where EOS tried him a few times many moons ago.

ps Felix Jones certainly didnt do the business against France, yet barring injury he was on the plane. Jennings might be counting himself lucky to be in NZ at Wallace's expense, however he can certainly count himself very unlucky not to have been origionally selected at Ryan or Leamys expense.
Ryan once again displayed against england why he's only started 1 HC game at the age of 27, carried the ball 4 times, twice he was penalised for not releasing.

Meant blindside - the point I was making is that Ferris would edge O'Brien from what I've seen as an international blindside so you wouldn't want to move him from there to faciliate Sean O'Brien who has won a couple of MOTM I think at European level at openside.

Rob Kearney looks as if he is first choice fullback. Geordan Murphy is 33 years old, coming back from a season long injury. No harm to have a bit of youthful experience in the camp, though I think we are very lucky to have Geordan and his experience there.

Was Jennings fit to be picked against Scotland as he broke his arm in the Magners Final?

As for the introduction of Ryan into this debate - similar situation to 25 year old Fergus McFadden who is behind three internationals/Lions in his club (2 centres, wing). Ryan also missed most of a season through an injury (I think he broke his leg/arm in 6Ns). And he can attempt to play two positions - lock and 6, unlike Shane Jennings who can only play one. He also played very well against the All Blacks when they played Munster a few years back, so he can lift his game.

Ireland lost Jamie Heaslip & David Wallace against England. Luckily Ryan had some experience of playing in the backrow - it could have been Leo Cullen & Shane Jennings on the bench. Has either of them ever played No. 8?

mrboswell

MaryKing wrote: »

Meant blindside - the point I was making is that Ferris would edge O'Brien from what I've seen as an international blindside so you wouldn't want to move him from there to faciliate Sean O'Brien who has won a couple of MOTM I think at European level at openside.

Rob Kearney looks as if he is first choice fullback. Geordan Murphy is 33 years old, coming back from a season long injury. No harm to have a bit of youthful experience in the camp, though I think we are very lucky to have Geordan and his experience there.

Was Jennings fit to be picked against Scotland as he broke his arm in the Magners Final?

As for the introduction of Ryan into this debate - similar situation to 25 year old Fergus McFadden who is behind three internationals/Lions in his club (2 centres, wing). Ryan also missed most of a season through an injury (I think he broke his leg/arm in 6Ns). And he can attempt to play two positions - lock and 6, unlike Shane Jennings who can only play one. He also played very well against the All Blacks when they played Munster a few years back, so he can lift his game.

Ireland lost Jamie Heaslip & David Wallace against England. Luckily Ryan had some experience of playing in the backrow - it could have been Leo Cullen & Shane Jennings on the bench. Has either of them ever played No. 8?

I have to say that our best option for the back row, by necessity more than by design, is probably Ferris, O'Brien and Heaslip. Are we overloaded with ball carriers?

It is a bit of a selection dilemma having O'Brien and Ferris for 6 and only Jennings for 7. I am still not convinced that Ferris is ready for the rigors of a world cup. I would give him 60 mins and put Jennings on for the last 20. The can al win their fair share of ball at ruck time but Jennings is the best at it.

To be honest I never rated Ryan in the past but I thought he carried and tackled very well against England. Yet to see him at 8 (recently anyway) but we are overloaded with 6's and only have one 7. He wouldn't make the match day 22 except in the case of injury.

Incidentally Jennings played 8 all through school. Not the same level as WC, but if he had to stand in I'm sure he would manage.

Leamy and Jennings are too slow in getting back to form to really make any impact on the starting backrow. On another note I have yet to see McFadden play a bad game, in any position.

Mr.Applepie

MaryKing wrote: »

As for the introduction of Ryan into this debate - similar situation to 25 year old Fergus McFadden who is behind three internationals/Lions in his club (2 centres, wing). Ryan also missed most of a season through an injury (I think he broke his leg/arm in 6Ns). And he can attempt to play two positions - lock and 6, unlike Shane Jennings who can only play one. He also played very well against the All Blacks when they played Munster a few years back, so he can lift his game.

Jennings can play 6 as well. He's nowhere near international standard but still probably better then Ryan.

MaryKing wrote: »

Ireland lost Jamie Heaslip & David Wallace against England. Luckily Ryan had some experience of playing in the backrow - it could have been Leo Cullen & Shane Jennings on the bench. Has either of them ever played No. 8?

Yes

MaryKing

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

Jennings can play 6 as well. He's nowhere near international standard but still probably better then Ryan.

Yes

Ryan was the lock sub. Leamy was backrow sub. on that occasion.

Which of Leo or Jennings would have been able to cover for Jamie Heaslip?

WeeBushy

MaryKing wrote: »

Ireland lost Jamie Heaslip & David Wallace against England. Luckily Ryan had some experience of playing in the backrow - it could have been Leo Cullen & Shane Jennings on the bench. Has either of them ever played No. 8?

Yes, both have at underage level and would be a damn sight better there even now than Ryan is, imo.

GerM

WeeBushy wrote: »

Yes, both have at underage level and would be a damn sight better there even now than Ryan is, imo.

I know they both captained Ireland there at U21 level for Ireland and were primarily No. 8s until professional but I think both have played senior rugby at No. 8 in the AIL also.

molloyjh

MaryKing wrote: »

Was he fit enough to play Scotland (when Mick McCarthy, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy and Kevin McLaughlin were involved)?

No, but given that answer I fail to see the relevance of the question. By not playing Wallace in the first game against France Jennos cards were marked. Wallace was fit for that game and by not playing him that meant he had to play the 2 home games. And that left Jennings no real opportunity. That was until fate stepped in and forced Kidneys hand (Mike Ross anyone?).

As for his performance that day do you think his was worse than everyone elses? He certainly didn't perform to his ability, but then who did on the day? And after being told he wasn't going to the RWC before-hand how was his head for it? Was it there fully? Probably not. A "You're just here to make up the numbers" selection is hardly motivating!

MaryKing wrote: »

All of those players are proven internationals (grand slam winners) who have been called up for the Lions. That was stiff competition for Jennings.

Yet Jones got a call up before Murphy and Leamy was included even though we were more than covered at 6 and 8.

MaryKing wrote: »

the point I was making is that Ferris would edge O'Brien from what I've seen as an international blindside so you wouldn't want to move him from there to faciliate Sean O'Brien who has won a couple of MOTM I think at European level at openside.

SOB has been, along with POC, one of our best and most consistent performers this year. And he didn't just win a few MOTM awards, he was named European Player of the Year. That's no small feat. The Wallace injury has certainly eased the selection headache Kidney would have had in that department, but had he been fit and available my back-row would have been SOB, Wallace and Heaslip. Fez, for as great as he is, hasn't had enough game time and has been far too prone to injury to get in ahead of Seanie, who has stood out in both green and blue.

MaryKing wrote: »

Ireland lost Jamie Heaslip & David Wallace against England. Luckily Ryan had some experience of playing in the backrow - it could have been Leo Cullen & Shane Jennings on the bench. Has either of them ever played No. 8?

Ain't hindsight grand. We went into that game with a fully fit 8 and a returning from injury 6 and 7. Realisitcally we should have been looking at replacing the 6 and 7 due to potential lack of match fitness or recurring injury. Instead we had cover for 6 and 8. What actually happened is beside the point as Kidney couldn't have known about it during his selection.

MaryKing

WeeBushy wrote: »

Yes, both have at underage level and would be a damn sight better there even now than Ryan is, imo.

Didn't Leamy move to No. 8 when Heaslip got injured?

I must say I thought Ryan did very well against Leinster in the Magners Final. Both backrows turned over an enormous amount of ball.

Why are people even responding to this anymore?

bamboozle

MaryKing wrote: »

Didn't Leamy move to No. 8 when Heaslip got injured?

I must say I thought Ryan did very well against Leinster in the Magners Final. Both backrows turned over an enormous amount of ball.

just to get things straight, Jennings is being talked down because he didnt play well against France when drafted in at the last minute for his first start since returning from a broken arm however Ryan despite a number of ineffectual performances in the warm up games is being talked up because of his performance in the ML final against a jaded Leinster team who had just won the HC days earlier?

Both Leo and Shane played at 8 in school and for irish schools and U21's.

Ardillaun

vinny chase wrote: »

The French defence was absolutely excellent yesterday in parts, and I think an element of Ireland's struggles in attack were due to the fact that O'Driscoll and d'Arcy simply weren't sharp after their lay-offs from injury.
.

Looking at a few highlights from the last Ireland-NZ and SA games, so many of our players looked way better than now e.g. Ferris, Heaslip, Bowe. Obviously, a player comes back from injury as a different person. BOD has managed to recreate himself each time and I hope the others can do the same.

This may have been answered already but how exactly did Healy's eye get injured?

profitius

bamboozle wrote: »

just to get things straight, Jennings is being talked down because he didnt play well against France when drafted in at the last minute for his first start since returning from a broken arm however Ryan despite a number of ineffectual performances in the warm up games is being talked up because of his performance in the ML final against a jaded Leinster team who had just won the HC days earlier?

Thats your opinion. I thought Ryan played well in the warm up games and he didn't look out of place.

One of the few bright spots from a ball carrying point of view was Donnacha Ryan's display. The flanker made several attacking surges and looks to be coming into a rich vein of form.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/0829/rugby_blog.html

profitius

profitius wrote: »

Thats your opinion. I thought Ryan played well in the warm up games and he didn't look out of place.

quote taken from Tadhg Peavoy's article...

http://www.thefreekick.com/board/topic/11993-the-tadhg-peavoy-thread/

Citations like that are asking for trouble I'm afraid.

MaryKing

molloyjh wrote: »

No, but given that answer I fail to see the relevance of the question. By not playing Wallace in the first game against France Jennos cards were marked. Wallace was fit for that game and by not playing him that meant he had to play the 2 home games. And that left Jennings no real opportunity. That was until fate stepped in and forced Kidneys hand (Mike Ross anyone?).

The relevance is that Niall Ronan who was obviously behind Jennings got to play instead. There was obviously a plan to start players on the periphery early in the warm up games. Or perhaps you think that Jennings could have ousted David Wallace as first choice?

As for his performance that day do you think his was worse than everyone elses? He certainly didn't perform to his ability, but then who did on the day? And after being told he wasn't going to the RWC before-hand how was his head for it? Was it there fully? Probably not. A "You're just here to make up the numbers" selection is hardly motivating!

Lots of players had very poor days. But he looked out of his depth.

Yet Jones got a call up before Murphy and Leamy was included even though we were more than covered at 6 and 8.

Geordan Murphy was also coming back from being out for a long time. I think Rob Kearney got the call before Geordan who was sent back to his club to try and get some gametime. Jones only got 20 mins. and did well.

SOB has been, along with POC, one of our best and most consistent performers this year. And he didn't just win a few MOTM awards, he was named European Player of the Year. That's no small feat.

I'm not disagreeing with you here.

The Wallace injury has certainly eased the selection headache Kidney would have had in that department, but had he been fit and available my back-row would have been SOB, Wallace and Heaslip. Fez, for as great as he is, hasn't had enough game time and has been far too prone to injury to get in ahead of Seanie, who has stood out in both green and blue.

I think Declan Kidney would have preferred to have that headache. I would have imagined that the starting br would have been Ferris/Wallace/Heaslip, with Sean O'Brien being sub who at least has played all positions in the backrow once in the last year or so.

Ain't hindsight grand. We went into that game with a fully fit 8 and a returning from injury 6 and 7. Realisitcally we should have been looking at replacing the 6 and 7 due to potential lack of match fitness or recurring injury. Instead we had cover for 6 and 8. What actually happened is beside the point as Kidney couldn't have known about it during his selection.

I disagree with you on what Declan Kidney was thinking. The reason why Donncha Ryan has edged it over Kevin Mclaughlin is that he can play 6 slightly better than Kevin can play lock.

Donncha Ryan acknowledged recently in interview Tony McGahan help by selecting him ahead of Denis Leamy in the Magners Final so that he would have a good shot at getting to the world cup.

bamboozle

profitius wrote: »

Thats your opinion. I thought Ryan played well in the warm up games and he didn't look out of place.

have a look again at the England performance, the first 2 times ryan carried the ball he was penalised for not releasing, he doesnt have the physique or power to play this level of rugby. There's a reason why at 27 he's only started one HC game and it wasnt at 6. His hunger and motivation on the pitch is not in question, his ability is.

Its a pity McLaughlin or McCarthy didnt get the opportunities which Ryan was afforded during the warm ups.

profitius

Deleted User wrote: »

quote taken from Tadhg Peavoy's article...

http://www.thefreekick.com/board/topic/11993-the-tadhg-peavoy-thread/

Citations like that are asking for trouble I'm afraid.

Who cares? I'm just showing that some people rate Donnacha Ryan.

profitius

profitius wrote: »

Who cares? I'm just showing that some people rate Donnacha Ryan.

And I've provided a reason why their opinion can be discredited.

MaryKing

Deleted User wrote: »

quote taken from Tadhg Peavoy's article...

http://www.thefreekick.com/board/topic/11993-the-tadhg-peavoy-thread/

Citations like that are asking for trouble I'm afraid.

Tony Ward's ratings.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/how-have-the-players-rated-so-far-2860816.html

SHANE JENNINGS
(1 start, v France home)
One of those players you seldom fail to notice yet in his one opportunity, albeit his first run out of the season against France at the Aviva Stadium, the game passed him by. But now, unexpectedly, David Wallace's misfortune gives him an opportunity to build on that and last Friday's run-out for Leinster. Rating: 3


SEAN O'BRIEN
(2 starts, v France twice)
He's another one of a handful we simply cannot afford to be without. I do not share the view that he can't play openside. On the contrary, I believe it a very viable option in the absence of David Wallace. Shane Jennings will travel as the first-choice scavenger, but don't rule out O'Brien as a very real alternative with Stephen Ferris wearing No 6. Rating: 7


STEPHEN FERRIS
(1 start, v England, plus one replacement appearance v France)
If injury to David Wallace was a killer blow, then the apparent good health of the human wrecking ball that is Stephen Ferris makes for the bonus. Declan Kidney will look on the positives but the dilemma now for the main man -- in consultation with Gert Smal -- is how best to balance Ireland's back-row. Rating: 5


DONNaCHA RYAN
(2 starts, v Scotland and France away, plus one replacement appearance v England)
The fact that each of the Tipperary man's starts were in different lines of the scrum underscores his importance to the match-day 22. There's also the extra line-out option he brings as a stand-in back-row allied to the quality of defence around the fringes. Rating: 5


DENIS LEAMY
(2 starts, v Scotland and France away, plus and one replacement appearance v England)
The Munster man also brings that element of versatility to the team, specifically on the blindside of the scrum as well as the middle of the back-row. His form has been adequate rather than earth-shattering. Rating: 5

tolosenc

MaryKing wrote: »

Lots of players had very poor days. But he looked out of his depth.

Bollox.

The only players that looked "out of [their] depth" in that match were TOL and Earls.

Welcome to my ignore list.

MaryKing

MaryKing wrote: »

DONNaCHA RYAN [/B]
(2 starts, v Scotland and France away, plus one replacement appearance v England)
The fact that each of the Tipperary man's starts were in different lines of the scrum underscores his importance to the match-day 22. There's also the extra line-out option he brings as a stand-in back-row allied to the quality of defence around the fringes. Rating: 5

Look Mary, I don't know why you are trying so hard here. For me, a rugby fan, I'll trust my own sense of judgement over any others. Why? Because to be honest, and somewhat arrogant, I'm usually right. Spend some time looking through match posts etc and you will see that I actually can back up what I say with good predictions, good reading of the game, and correct assertions about a number of our players.

Feel free to search "Donnacha Ryan" and posts I've made, and you'll see that I simply don't rate him. Here's a good one I made months back, and genuinely nothing has changed.

A telling indicator is this quite simple fact.

Rhys Ruddock, completely out of contention for a spot for the RWC would have been a better selection at 6 than Ryan.
MOD also way down the pecking order, is a far better 2nd row than Donnacha Ryan.

Ryan's supposed ability to play two positions is complete fallacy.

MaryKing

Deleted User wrote: »

Look Mary, I don't know why you are trying so hard here. For me, a rugby fan, I'll trust my own sense of judgement over any others. Why? Because to be honest, and somewhat arrogant, I'm usually right. Spend some time looking through match posts etc and you will see that I actually can back up what I say with good predictions, good reading of the game, and correct assertions about a number of our players.

Feel free to search "Donnacha Ryan" and posts I've made, and you'll see that I simply don't rate him. Here's a good one I made months back, and genuinely nothing has changed.

A telling indicator is this quite simple fact.

Rhys Ruddock, completely out of contention for a spot for the RWC would have been a better selection at 6 than Ryan.
MOD also way down the pecking order, is a far better 2nd row than Donnacha Ryan.

Ryan's supposed ability to play two positions is complete fallacy.

Well good for you that you are sticking to your own opinion.

MaryKing

MaryKing wrote: »

Well good for you that you are sticking to your own opinion.

what could possibly have changed it?

Perhaps Ryan's incredible run of form that saw him scoring trys, winning MotM awards, knocking players back in tackles, being involved in lineout steals or even securing our own ball at lineout time. Perhaps seeing him offer himself up in link play in the midfield, or making ground, or making a try saving tackle, or shunting a maul into touch for us to make a turnover. Or maybe seeing him actually present a ball for quick recycling which lead to a decent opportunity for us to use the ball?

Perhaps, but literally none of those things has happened since I made that post.

Not one.