Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

totallegend

keane2097 wrote: »

Thanks guys, great post emmet.

Is there a genuine worry of Jennings not even going to NZ?

Yes. Firstly, he has a broken arm but it is expected to heal in time.

Secondly, he has been consistently ignored by the Irish management for his entire career; part of that was down to his departure to Leicester for a couple of seasons, part of it is down to the quality of players Ireland have had in the back-row over the last few years, but for a player of Jennings' quality to have only nine caps (only four of which were in the starting jersey) is nothing short of scandalous.

Kidney is very likely to pick Leamy or Donnacha Ryan ahead of him, which would be laughable, frankly.

CatFromHue

Jennings would only have been on the international radar the year or so he came back from Leicester, the 2007/08 season.

This was also the emergence of Ferris in the Ireland team.

There is alot of competition in the back row for ireland. While you say its scandalous for him to have only 9 caps who do you pick him ahead of?

08/09 ferris, heaslip, and wallace were all Lions. Thats a tricky bunch to get ahead of. This season has seen the emergence of SOB for Ireland.

Jennings did go on tour to oz and nz last year and started against the ozzies and I think came on for the injured Muldoon against the kiwis. I have to say my main memory of Jennings input was the missed tackle that lead to Cooper scoring the try against us.

jolley123

Not sure whether his low number of caps is scandalous, but what would be scandalous, is if Kidney doesn't give him a fair enough chance in the warm-up games. By fair enough chance, I'm talking at least 50 mins in a game. Rather than the epic 5-10 mins he likes to give.

Jennings added so much to the Leinster v Northampton game, and it's worth seeing if he can add something similar to Ireland. In saying that, Ferris is probably the no.1 bench back-rower at the moment. But we all know how injury prone he is.

irishbucsfan

Jennings is an absolute class act and has been unfortunate. This year he's played some of the best rugby of his career and back around christmas was among Leinster's best players.

If he doesn't go to the world cup though, it will be because he is going against two brilliant players for the 7 jersey, even if he can play in a way that they can't.

roycon

ferris is probably the no.1 starting back row not no.1 bench back row. hes definitely our most rounded backrow player wallace and obrien are great but arent as proficient in the lineout or as physical in defence.he can fit any game plan

Riskymove

Quint2010 wrote: »

So hang on? He can cover OH? So you would propose to have him on the bench as well as O'Gara-in order to cover O'Gara?

I am not proposing anything - its just the way it is , he is the cover at OH in the squad...not the match XV

How is that saving a place in the squad if you are not going to put that extra place on the bench? Wallace hardly saw any game time in the 6N simply because he was there, as you say, to cover our sub OH. But our sub OH didnt get injured so it was a complete waste of a bench spot. Our bench should be 2 props, a hooker, a second and back row, a SH, an OH and a player that can play wing/centre, not a player who can play OH and centre.

the decision to play Wallace on the bench( as well as ROG) was bizarre, noone I know understands it

GerM

The fact that DK didn't bring Ian Keatley into the extended squad to train with the international players, learn moves etc and that Ian Humphreys is injured suggests that in the event of injury to ROG or Sexton, we won't consider calling up anyone else and Wallace will be covering outhalf. So basically, he's travelling and that's that I reckon.

WeeBushy

roycon wrote: »

ferris is probably the no.1 starting back row not no.1 bench back row. hes definitely our most rounded backrow player wallace and obrien are great but arent as proficient in the lineout or as physical in defence.he can fit any game plan

When fit I might agree with you, but its been so long since he's played an extended run of games. I think he will struggle to break into the starting team unless he really proves himself during the warm up games. I really hope he hits the ground running and stays fit during the warm up games. SOB/Wallace/Heaslip/Ferris as your match day back rows gives me shivers.

GerM wrote: »

The fact that DK didn't bring Ian Keatley into the extended squad to train with the international players, learn moves etc and that Ian Humphreys is injured suggests that in the event of injury to ROG or Sexton, we won't consider calling up anyone else and Wallace will be covering outhalf. So basically, he's travelling and that's that I reckon.

Unfortunately, that is a good point.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

The fact that DK didn't bring Ian Keatley into the extended squad to train with the international players, learn moves etc and that Ian Humphreys is injured suggests that in the event of injury to ROG or Sexton, we won't consider calling up anyone else and Wallace will be covering outhalf. So basically, he's travelling and that's that I reckon.

DK picked Paddy Wallace in the 22-man squad for all five games Six Nations; it would be a Damascene conversion if he now decides Wallace doesn't fit into a 30-man squad.

The fact that Wallace only saw 11 minutes in total in a tournament in which the Irish backline failed to find any consistent rhythm would seem to indicate that Kidney doesn't actually rate him in terms of potential impact. Even more so since Wallace can effectively only cover 12, yet D'Arcy was by no means at his best in the Six Nations (or if, as Kidney maintains, he can cover FB, why was Luke Fitz not given the shepherd's crook?)

It just begs the question; why does Kidney pick him?

CatFromHue

i can only assume that kidney believes that if an outside back gets injured with wallace and sexton/o gara on the bench that the versatility of the players on the pitch can accomodate any changes.

against england we had o gara and sexton on the bench with earls, trimble, bowe, bod and darcy in the backs.

if earls goes down injured wallace could cover him. if trimble or bowe goes down injured darcy goes to the wing with wallace into the centre.

if mcfadden is on the bench and earls goes down then its bowe to full back and mcfadden to the wing.

i can only assume that kidney rates wallace a better 15 than bowe and wallace a better center than mcfadden.

totallegend

CatFromHue wrote: »

i can only assume that kidney believes that if an outside back gets injured with wallace and sexton/o gara on the bench that the versatility of the players on the pitch can accomodate any changes.

against england we had o gara and sexton on the bench with earls, trimble, bowe, bod and darcy in the backs.

if earls goes down injured wallace could cover him. if trimble or bowe goes down injured darcy goes to the wing with wallace into the centre.

That's the theory alright but my point is that DK clearly regards Wallace only as emergency cover in case of injury rather than someone who can actually do a job when the game needs to be changed.

CatFromHue wrote: »

i can only assume that kidney rates wallace a better 15 than bowe and wallace a better center than mcfadden.

I wouldn't rule it out; I'd be interested to see if anyone else on this board would agree with either of those calls.

Let's assume the backline is:
Kearney
Bowe
BOD
D'Arcy
Trimble/Earls

Then any of Trimble/Earls, Luke Fitz, McFadden or even Murphy are better candidates for the 22 jersey because they can realistically cover more than one position.

CatFromHue

well from kidneys reluctance to put bowe at 15 in preferance for luke fitz there i assume its cos kidney doesnt want bowe there at all. against wales it was a direct swap between luke fitz and wallace. bowe stayed on the wing.

considering the majority of wallaces starts for ireland have come under kidney, he must have some trust in him to do a job.

porterbelly

GerM wrote: »

The fact that DK didn't bring Ian Keatley into the extended squad to train with the international players, learn moves etc and that Ian Humphreys is injured suggests that in the event of injury to ROG or Sexton, we won't consider calling up anyone else and Wallace will be covering outhalf. So basically, he's travelling and that's that I reckon.

Ditto Jamie Hagan.

Can't fathom Kidney at all. You'd think he'd have learned from Eddie's mistakes. His blinded loyalty to some players is scandalous. Keatley and Hagan had excellent seasons with Connacht and could learn an awful lot from a few weeks in camp. Hagan is a future irish tighthead who needs exposure to the setup and the coaches. Keatley could be Sexton's understudy down the line if he continues his progression.

Denis Leamy can't make the Munster team. Paddy Wallace has had a slack season and will struggle to make the Ulster team imo if Spence and Cave can remain fit. Cop on Deccie. Tomas O' leary is not international standard full stop and will be no2/3 scrum half in Munster next year. Cop on Deccie. This charade is getting old

val_jester

CatFromHue wrote: »

well from kidneys reluctance to put bowe at 15 in preferance for luke fitz there i assume its cos kidney doesnt want bowe there at all. against wales it was a direct swap between luke fitz and wallace. bowe stayed on the wing.

considering the majority of wallaces starts for ireland have come under kidney, he must have some trust in him to do a job.

I think Bowe will stay on his wing no matter what, he hasn't played a minute elsewhere under Kidney. If a change has to be made in the backline it will be earls who will be moved, like against wales last year when he went to 13 and bod to 12. Which makes sense as Bowe is one of the best wings in the world so why move him to a position where he is less effective.

Wallace gets a lot of unfair criticism, he has been one of Ulster's main players for the last few years and preformed when it mattered in the Heineken cup for them this year. He will definitely be in the 30 man squad because he has a good relationship with Kidney who has known him since they won the u19 world cup but that isn't the reason he will be selected. The reason he will be selected is because he is in the top two 12 in the country, he gives a different type of option to D'arcy, he offers emergency cover at outhalf and he has preformed very well in the southern hemisphere against aus and nz before. The amount of criticism he has come in for since the Wales game is ridiculous and completely over the top. We had plenty of chances to win the game and should have taken them, he made a decision and it turned out to be the wrong one but we still could have scored after that phase if it wasn't for a knock on bringing the game to an end.

People are saying it will be a disgrace if Kidney chooses Wallace over McFadden, but that isn't true because they aren't in competition for the same place. McFadden has been used on the wing for Ireland and as such is in competition with Earls, Bowe and Trimble who are all ahead of him imo and Fitzgerald who has being starting ahead of him for Leinster so its difficult to argue that Mc Fadden should be brought instead of him.

Kidney will pick what he considers the best squad possible but with only (probably) 13 backs being brought with 2 outhalfs, 3 scrumhalfs, leaving 8 positions for outside backs. Bod, Darcy, Wallace, Bowe, Earls are nailed on leaving 3 places. I think Kidney will bring 2 full backs leaving one place between trimble, fitz and mcfadden. And I don't think mc fadden will win that battle and I don't think he can have too many complaints about it as trimble has been excellent for ulster and fitz has being starting ahead of him(which you could argue was not a form selection). Kidney could take 14 backs but I still see mcfadden missing out.

thomond2006

IMO Wallace should start one warm up game at 10 and another at 12. It wouldn't surprise me if that happens anyway.

val_jester

porterbelly wrote: »

Ditto Jamie Hagan.

Can't fathom Kidney at all. You'd think he'd have learned from Eddie's mistakes. His blinded loyalty to some players is scandalous. Keatley and Hagan had excellent seasons with Connacht and could learn an awful lot from a few weeks in camp. Hagan is a future irish tighthead who needs exposure to the setup and the coaches. Keatley could be Sexton's understudy down the line if he continues his progression.

Denis Leamy can't make the Munster team. Paddy Wallace has had a slack season and will struggle to make the Ulster team imo if Spence and Cave can remain fit. Cop on Deccie. Tomas O' leary is not international standard full stop and will be no2/3 scrum half in Munster next year. Cop on Deccie. This charade is getting old

In reply to your first paragraph; this is about Ireland having the best world cup possible, keatley and hagan aren't going to be involved and it would be a waste of the coaches limited time working with players who won't be involved. It will much better for the two players to stay with their new clubs so they can settle in there and start the season well. If they well they will be brought into the set up for the 6nations.

As for your 2nd paragraph; Wallace will be first choice 12 for Ulster next year, there is absolutely no doubt about that as he is integral to the way the team plays. Cave will probably play 13 with spence on the wing. Hopefully by this time next year we will see marshal emerging as a successor to wallace but spence wont take the 12 of wallace. Kidney has included 5 scrumhalfs who all have their limitations tol has been poor but is capable of being an average scrumhalf which is the best ireland can cope with.
Leamy will do a job but I'm not really bothered whether he is in the final 30 or not, after the top 4 backrowers is all much the same.

val_jester

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO Wallace should start one warm up game at 10 and another at 12. It wouldn't surprise me if that happens anyway.

I would expect wallace to start at 10 against the connacht selection.

CatFromHue

porterbelly wrote: »

Ditto Jamie Hagan.

Can't fathom Kidney at all. You'd think he'd have learned from Eddie's mistakes. His blinded loyalty to some players is scandalous. Keatley and Hagan had excellent seasons with Connacht and could learn an awful lot from a few weeks in camp. Hagan is a future irish tighthead who needs exposure to the setup and the coaches. Keatley could be Sexton's understudy down the line if he continues his progression.

Denis Leamy can't make the Munster team. Paddy Wallace has had a slack season and will struggle to make the Ulster team imo if Spence and Cave can remain fit. Cop on Deccie. Tomas O' leary is not international standard full stop and will be no2/3 scrum half in Munster next year. Cop on Deccie. This charade is getting old

you're right keatley COULD be in a few seasons a contender for the irish jersey. he is nowhere in the running for it now though. I havent seen enough of hagan to really say, he has looked all right / good in the games ive seen him, not amazing.

i dont know when connacht start pre season but they will have long seasons ahead of em next season so getting a good break from rugby would be better than holding tackle bags in the irish camp.

thats a fairly ridculous comment about wallace next season. why was wallace picked ahead of cave for the magners game against leinster? and why was it spence who made way for cave in the same game?

CatFromHue

val_jester wrote: »

People are saying it will be a disgrace if Kidney chooses Wallace over McFadden, but that isn't true because they aren't in competition for the same place. McFadden has been used on the wing for Ireland and as such is in competition with Earls, Bowe and Trimble who are all ahead of him imo and Fitzgerald who has being starting ahead of him for Leinster so its difficult to argue that Mc Fadden should be brought instead of him.

some of his best performances for leinster have been on the wing too, both the clermont games for example. he has actually come off the bench on to the wing as well in few big games too.

jolley123

val_jester wrote: »

People are saying it will be a disgrace if Kidney chooses Wallace over McFadden, but that isn't true because they aren't in competition for the same place. McFadden has been used on the wing for Ireland and as such is in competition with Earls, Bowe and Trimble who are all ahead of him imo and Fitzgerald who has being starting ahead of him for Leinster so its difficult to argue that Mc Fadden should be brought instead of him.

People are saying that it's a disgrace if he's in the 22. Why? Well because D'arcy is playing better than him atm. Therefore D'arcy is Ireland's starting 12. Which means if Wallace is in the 22 you put him there as the replacement back. Which is the wrong decision.


Wallace covers 12. At a stretch he covers 10, but to me that horse-manure. If he was un-impressive at 10 in the Magners, then why on earth would you give him the slot in green. So, he just covers 12.
Whereas someone like McFadden has, as you rightly pointed out, played quite a lot of rugby on the wing. But McFadden's primary position is in the centre. Whether it's 13 or 12 is undecided, but he's shown that he's able to play either.

Even Fitzgerald offers more options on the bench than Wallace.
In reality, if we lose one of our back-three through injury, and Wallace is covering, it's not looking good. Whereas if we lose on of our back-three or centres with McFadden covering, hope still remains.

I'm not going to be angry if Wallace travels. He's a good creative 12. But I will be angry if he benches. Either start the man, or leave him out all together.

Put it this way. If SBW starts for NZ. Do you think Nonu benches. I doubt it. Henry would be much more inclined to use a versatile back as a replacement.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jolley123 wrote: »

I'm not going to be angry if Wallace travels. He's a good creative 12. But I will be angry if he benches. Either start the man, or leave him out all together.

If Wallace is on the bench he should be covering 10/12 with an outside back Earls if Trimble starts for example covering the back 3 and if BOD gets injured bring on Wallace and move D'arcy to 13. If Rog/Sexton is on the bench Wallace should not be in the 22.

CatFromHue

jolley123 wrote: »

People are saying that it's a disgrace if he's in the 22. Why? Well because D'arcy is miles better than him at the moment, seeing as Wallace hasn't even been starting for Ulster.

? he has started 19 games in total for ulster including all 7 heineken cup games!

jolley123

CatFromHue wrote: »

? he has started 19 games in total for ulster including all 7 heineken cup games!

Wow, I cannot believe that! I just went and checked and you're right! I find that incredible. How can I have watched all of Ulster's game's this season and not noticed the guy was playing.....
I'll edit that out. But my point still stands. D'arcy is Irelands no.1 inside centre atm.

CatFromHue

jolley123 wrote: »

Wow, I cannot believe that! I just went and checked and you're right! I find that incredible. How can I have watched all of Ulster's game's this season and not noticed the guy was playing.....
I'll edit that out. But my point still stands. D'arcy is Irelands no.1 inside centre atm.

darcy has had a few high profile mistakes in attack and defence this season. he is the man in posession of the jersey and does work very hard for the team. his tackle count is very high and he must be in every 2/3 ruck but it wasnt a vintage season from him.

jolley123

CatFromHue wrote: »

darcy has had a few high profile mistakes in attack and defence this season. he is the man in posession of the jersey and does work very hard for the team. his tackle count is very high and he must be in every 2/3 ruck but it wasnt a vintage season from him.

By no means. His form has been shaky, and he perhaps didn't deserve to start in all the games he has. Like I said. I'm not against Wallace starting, in as much as I wouldn't see it as disgraceful. But I'm totally against him benching, unless he is the covering 10. It just isn't an intelligent tactic.

irishbucsfan

Pretty much irrelevant who is on the bench with Declan "8 seconds" Kidney in charge.

ALH-06

Seems perfectly obvious to me - if either ROG or Sexton get injured at the RWC, iHumph should be sent to NZ as the replacement bench 10. Teams do this all the time - SA did it after their first match in 2007 when their first choice 12 (JDV) got injured.

iHumph has his weaknesses and they've been well chronicled on this forum. But he is undoubtedly a far superior OH option than Wallace. Fact.

pajunior

ALH-06 wrote: »

Seems perfectly obvious to me - if either ROG or Sexton get injured at the RWC, iHumph should be sent to NZ as the replacement bench 10. Teams do this all the time - SA did it after their first match in 2007 when their first choice 12 (JDV) got injured.

iHumph has his weaknesses and they've been well chronicled on this forum. But he is undoubtedly a far superior OH option than Wallace. Fact.

But what if sexton tweaks his ankle before the USA game? If you bring in Ian to cover the bench then Sexton can't play for the rest of the WC.
However if you have wallace on the bench he can sit there for 80 minutes and then Sexton can play for the remainder of the WC.

val_jester

jolley123 wrote: »

People are saying that it's a disgrace if he's in the 22. Why? Well because D'arcy is playing better than him atm. Therefore D'arcy is Ireland's starting 12. Which means if Wallace is in the 22 you put him there as the replacement back. Which is the wrong decision.


Wallace covers 12. At a stretch he covers 10, but to me that horse-manure. If he was un-impressive at 10 in the Magners, then why on earth would you give him the slot in green. So, he just covers 12.
Whereas someone like McFadden has, as you rightly pointed out, played quite a lot of rugby on the wing. But McFadden's primary position is in the centre. Whether it's 13 or 12 is undecided, but he's shown that he's able to play either.

Even Fitzgerald offers more options on the bench than Wallace.
In reality, if we lose one of our back-three through injury, and Wallace is covering, it's not looking good. Whereas if we lose on of our back-three or centres with McFadden covering, hope still remains.

I'm not going to be angry if Wallace travels. He's a good creative 12. But I will be angry if he benches. Either start the man, or leave him out all together.

Put it this way. If SBW starts for NZ. Do you think Nonu benches. I doubt it. Henry would be much more inclined to use a versatile back as a replacement.

I wasn't calling for him to be in the 22, at no point have I said he should be on the bench covering the outside backs. Lots of people on here have being giving out about him making the 30 man squad. I agree that he either starts or doesn't make the 22 unless its as backup outhalf/12. You can't have rog and wallace on the bench like the 6 nations.

pajunior

val_jester wrote: »

I wasn't calling for him to be in the 22, at no point have I said he should be on the bench covering the outside backs. Lots of people on here have being giving out about him making the 30 man squad. I agree that he either starts or doesn't make the 22 unless its as backup outhalf/12. You can't have rog and wallace on the bench like the 6 nations.

I completely agree.
Wallace should be in the squad. After that he should either be starting at twelve or be cover for 10/12 in the event of Rog/Sexton getting injured. If the injury to ROG/Sexton puts them out for the whole world cup then one of the Ians should be called up as a replacement and Wallace can go back to either starting at 12 or not on the bench.