Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Podge_irl

pajunior wrote: »

But what if sexton tweaks his ankle before the USA game? If you bring in Ian to cover the bench then Sexton can't play for the rest of the WC.
However if you have wallace on the bench he can sit there for 80 minutes and then Sexton can play for the remainder of the WC.

If Sexton tweaks his ankle before the USA game then you start ROG and have O'Driscoll as back up out-half, or anyone really. They are massively more than likely not going to be used and even if he had to play outhalf against USA, Ireland would still have more then enough to win the game.

For all the talk of Wallace "covering" outhalf, he's really not very good at it.

(I like Wallace as a 12 for the record and am surprised/disappointed he didn't get more gametime in the 6N there).

theboss80

Ferris was in court today where he denied 2 counts of assault.

Story

durkadurka

Well now we know. I suspect very little details will emerge between now and then

GerM

I'm sure we all avidly watch Saturday Night With Miriam anyway but this evening Heaslip and Kearney will be featured if anyone is channel surfing with nothing to do. Should shed some light on Kearney's injury status anyway.

durkadurka

Shes going to drool over them like your mates flirty mother.

Many will squirm...

thomond2006

The Ireland squad converged in Kildare this evening for the first of the three planned preseason camps as part of preparations for the Rugby World Cup in September.

Ireland head coach Declan Kidney recently announced a 43-man panel that would take part in this first camp, which included four uncapped players in Conor Murray, Felix Jones, Brett Wilkinson and Mike McCarthy.

While the majority of players have already begun some level of preseason training depending on when they finished playing, there are several players from that original 43-man squad who will not be attending due to injury or ongoing rehabilitation.

Brett Wilkinson has pulled a hamstring and has remained in his provincial centre to begin rehabilitation on the injury.

Stephen Ferris has returned to full running following his long-term knee injury, but has remained with Ulster to continue his rehabilitation programme.

Gordon D'Arcy had injured his right ankle during the Heineken Cup final and having not responded to treatment, underwent surgery last week.

It is expected that he will return to full training at the start of August and should be available for selection for the home Guinness Summer Series games against France and England.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/0626/ireland1.html

CatFromHue

darcy's been unlucky with injuries. his arm break took a long time to heal, then there was his hip/groin problem last season. now this!

Taco Corp

Hope he makes it back for those games. If he doesn't, then he'll end up out of contention like Horgan, Humphreysand Spence did.

Podge_irl

Interesting. If he doesn't make it then McFadden will almost certainly travel but it's an interesting choice between himself and Wallace. Wallace has by far the more experience at international level but McFadden is a more like for like replacement (with the benefit of much great pace).

theboss80

Ya I just spotted that there and posted in the World Cup Squads Thread , that was kept very quiet wasn't it? If he is only returning to full training in August he will surely only play one game?

jolley123

K, so over in the Munster thread there's a debate that should really be in here. The debate started out about whether Ryan deserves to go to the WC ahead of McLaughlin. It has then moved on to our 6's in general.

I personally don't think it's worth wasting a spot on Ryan simply because he's average in two areas of the pitch rather than 1. Why wouldn't you bring someone who's very good at one area of the pitch? In my opinion Ryan is very low down on MY 6 list. The list(based mostly on this season) goes like this.

1. O'Brien
2. Ferris
3. Muldoon
4. McLaughlin
5. Leamy
6. Ruddock
7. Ryan

In terms of our locks, I would put it in this order, taking into account that Tuohy is/has been unfortunately injured.

1. O'Connell
2. Cullen
3. O'Callaghan
4. O'Driscoll
5. Tuohy
6. Ryan

I don't think there has honestly been a performance where I've watched Ryan and thought, wow, MOM performance. I'm not saying he's been poor, just that others have done more.

Alas I think he'll travel. For reason I cannot legitimately explain.
By the way, my opinions are just that. I'm not tearing the guy down, I'm saying it how I think it is.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd also add in Connacht's McCarthy just above D Ryan on both lists if there is to be a utility lock/br slot I think it is his.

That said I wouldn't throw in a utility slot if I was picking the squad. I'd bring POC, DOC, Cullen and MOD as locks and Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Wallace, and Jennings in the back row

Tuohy would take MOD's spot if he hadn't been injured so much last season

Amazotheamazing

From the Munster thread...

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

You really think saying someone covers two positions poorly is different to saying he's a poor player? Like I said, neither are in the class of our top three 6's (Ferris, O'brien and Leamy) or tbf, as good as Muldoon (when fit). I'd say at a push they are fighting out for 5 and 6th?

I would say that Mike Ross would be a poor bench option, in that he only covers 3.

So I think it's not ridiculous to say that he covers 1 and 3 poorly.

I'd rather we didn't push "dynamic" players who are anything but in place of players who can actually do a number on the game.

This is the reason we've been shouting down the screen at Kidney for quite some time. If the lineout goes to muck, we need a second row capable of taking it back. If the breakdown falls apart, we need a bench back rower who can make an impact. What we certainly don't need, is someone who's "filling a gap", and "giving us more choices", when in fact, it's actually hurting our team because it means that the guys in front can't get any respite.

Donnacha Ryan off the bench into 4, or 6 come WC time, would be an error against pretty much any team bar Russia and the USA.

Likewise, McL coming on at 4 would not be good news. However, McL coming on at 6 can do a far better job than Ryan can.

We've all seen how Paddy Wallace has suffered this tag of "dynamism", how he's benched because he offers "cover for out half", yet how much game time has he gotten? How many games have we cried out for a winger to come off the bench and we only have a 12 cum 10 available? I dread the moment if we go for the split that requires McL or Ryan to cover 4 and backrow. No team would be worried by our bench, and having seen how important a bench is (Heineken Cup Final) time and time again this season, I just couldn't see any reason whatsoever that you would choose a player of Ryan's Calibre to take up a spot on the bench, a la Paddy Wallace, and cripple the team where it most needs a replacement.

Donnacha Ryan is not an international 4, and he's not an international 6.
Kevin McLaughlin is not an international 4, but he's certainly an international 6.

Funnily enough, I'd have more faith in MOD to cover both positions than either of them after the season he's had. With the proviso that we have a 7 and only 7 on the bench with him... i.e Jennings / Wallace.

ormond lad

Deleted User wrote: »

From the Munster thread...

I would say that Mike Ross would be a poor bench option, in that he only covers 3.

So I think it's not ridiculous to say that he covers 1 and 3 poorly.

I'd rather we didn't push "dynamic" players who are anything but in place of players who can actually do a number on the game.

This is the reason we've been shouting down the screen at Kidney for quite some time. If the lineout goes to muck, we need a second row capable of taking it back. If the breakdown falls apart, we need a bench back rower who can make an impact. What we certainly don't need, is someone who's "filling a gap", and "giving us more choices", when in fact, it's actually hurting our team because it means that the guys in front can't get any respite.

Donnacha Ryan off the bench into 4, or 6 come WC time, would be an error against pretty much any team bar Russia and the USA.

Likewise, McL coming on at 4 would not be good news. However, McL coming on at 6 can do a far better job than Ryan can.

We've all seen how Paddy Wallace has suffered this tag of "dynamism", how he's benched because he offers "cover for out half", yet how much game time has he gotten? How many games have we cried out for a winger to come off the bench and we only have a 12 cum 10 available? I dread the moment if we go for the split that requires McL or Ryan to cover 4 and backrow. No team would be worried by our bench, and having seen how important a bench is (Heineken Cup Final) time and time again this season, I just couldn't see any reason whatsoever that you would choose a player of Ryan's Calibre to take up a spot on the bench, a la Paddy Wallace, and cripple the team where it most needs a replacement.

Donnacha Ryan is not an international 4, and he's not an international 6.
Kevin McLaughlin is not an international 4, but he's certainly an international 6.

Funnily enough, I'd have more faith in MOD to cover both positions than either of them after the season he's had.

Funny that kidney seems to rate donnacha a lot.
Donnacha ryan, is an international standard 4, not in the class as a 6 as SOB or ferris but comparing him to Micko is unfair, when did MOD last play at 6?
Neither KmcL or DR will be involved in important games unless their is injuries to a second row and/or back row, their will be 1 of wallace/sob/heaslip/ferris on bench as well. DR played super at 6 the last few weeks of the season and while he is not as quick off the mark as Genuine back rows, he is probably the quickest of any of our potential 2nds rows
Ryan has probably had his best season for Munster looking more at home in the backrow than he's ever done, after a run of games without injury.

So is he a 6 or a 4?

Podge_irl

If Ferris is fit and travels then we'll have one of Ferris or SOB on the bench as well as Cullen. Neither Ryan or McL will be involved in any important matchday 22s anyway.

I'd personally rate McL as a better 6 then Ryan and Ryan as a better lock then McL (mind you, I think we'll see more of McL at lock next year for Leinster). It's one of these periphery calls that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I expect Kidney will pick Ryan because he prefers players he knows in these kind of calls.

Amazotheamazing

Deleted User wrote: »

So is he a 6 or a 4?

I think he's probably the closest we have, along with McCarthy in Connacht, as Australian style forward who can shift between the rows. You want to put definitions on him, not me (man!). Same as Lawes for England.

In general the roles are being blurred at the highest level, you're getting more and more tall, athletic monsters like Ruddock in the backrow. A guy like Nagle can put himself about a backrower, much better tackler and hands then a traditional lock but not fully dynamic enough to be a flanker.

jolley123

Oh my god. Did I just see Ryan and Lawes in the same sentence:eek:

Amazotheamazing

jolley123 wrote: »

Oh my god. Did I just see Ryan and Lawes in the same sentence:eek:

No. Look again and see if you can spot the full stop marking the end of one sentence and the beginning of another.

Ryan isn't in the same class as lawes or elsom of course. I was just pointing out it's a growing trend to have interchangeable players between the second row and the backrow. Hell, Chabal faked an entire career out of it.

Podge_irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Hell, Chabal faked an entire career out of it.

I'm still pretty convinced he got most of his career out of the beard.

Amazotheamazing

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm still pretty convinced he got most of his career out of the beard.

The definition of an overhyped player for me. In fairness to France, they've kept faith in some ordinary (for france's level) players over the years but Chabal is the ultimate in looking the part but not being the part.

jolley123

I think the argument has run it's course. I think we can all agree that if either Ryan or KvM were to go, they would play a rather minor role anyway. Both players are talented, some people have a higher opinion of Ryan than I would, and I have a higher opinion of KvM than others.

danthefan

I for one don't care which of Ryan or McL goes.

bamboozle

danthefan wrote: »

I for one don't care which of Ryan or McL goes.

i do, McL has proven himself over the last 2 seasons at every level he's played at and deserves his selection to be based on this, Ryan has had 4 or 5 seasons of doing nothing to live up to the potential he initially had shown until the tail end of this season gone when he had a run of games in ML matches at 6.

McL deserves to go ahead of Ryan but knowing Kidney, he wont.

Cpt_Blackbeard

bamboozle wrote: »

i do, McL has proven himself over the last 2 seasons at every level he's played at and deserves his selection to be based on this, Ryan has had 4 or 5 seasons of doing nothing to live up to the potential he initially had shown until the tail end of this season gone when he had a run of games in ML matches at 6.

McL deserves to go ahead of Ryan but knowing Kidney, he wont.

McL is a 6 who has had very little gametime at lock. He ended the season poorly and is ~4th choice 6 in the country. Ryan on the other hand, ended the season out of position and in great form. Ryan is currently the form player of the 2.

Ireland don't need a good 6 who can play lock (although its unproven that he can play lock), they need a good lock who can cover 6.

jolley123

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He ended the season poorly

That is a complete over-statement if ever there was one. What are we calling the tail end of a season?? The last two games? Obviously KvM wasn't playing too badly if Schmidt thought he was the right option for the Toulouse, Leicester and Northampton game. KvM hit great form at the end of this season. And the ironic thing is that the reason he kept getting picked over Jennings is because of his line-out work. Yet the argument for Ryan over KvM is that Ryan is a better lock. The only job of a lock over a back-rower is the line-out duty, and KvM is brilliant in the line-out.

It appears to me that Ryan's last couple of games for Munster are being shouted about like he had stormers. Rhys Ruddock has put in better shifts at 6 this season than Ryan has.

Although I agree with the core of your statement(We don't need another 6), I think such an argument can be applied to Ryan. All this tremendously amazing form he hit was at 6, he's been quiet at lock. So if he's better suited at 6, why would we take him? As you said, we don't need another 6, so let's take a good lock. McCarthy is who I'm leaning towards at the moment.

GerM

I think Ryan will travel but Jolley has hit the nail on the head...somewhere along the way public perception has taken a major turn and there appears to be a belief that Ryan was tearing teams apart in the last couple of months of the season. In reality, he was getting a run (and playing well) in the ML and benching in the Amlin Cup getting 15 minutes at the end of games. He did a good job but by no means was setting the world alight. It was only about 12 weeks ago that he got a start at 6 against Leinster and the majority of people said he couldn't hack it in that role after being exposed for a try and taken off early.

McLaughlin was playing some excellent stuff during that period, better than anything himself or Ryan managed at any other stage in the season. He did well at lock in a few starts there and excelled against Leicester when he was a complete terror for them at the line out. He finished the season quietly enough but was still playing alright stuff. The juxtaposition of his leaving the field with the repeated introduction of Jennings seems to have influenced a lot of people's opinions.

Ryan will travel I'm fairly confident but there's peculiar logic and recollection at work in some quarters.

bamboozle

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

McL is a 6 who has had very little gametime at lock. He ended the season poorly and is ~4th choice 6 in the country. Ryan on the other hand, ended the season out of position and in great form. Ryan is currently the form player of the 2.

Ireland don't need a good 6 who can play lock (although its unproven that he can play lock), they need a good lock who can cover 6.

Nonsense, McL dismantled the Leicester lineout in the HC quarter final and started both the semi final and final, i'm not sure what you're basing his poor form on?
Ryan after 5 seasons knocking on the door got a run of Magner's league games at 6 and looked good yet nowhere near McL's standard, Ryan has never played consistently at a level higher than Magners league.

theboss80

O'Leary Injury Free

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0708/1224300300965.html

“I don’t know what way Deccie’s (Kidney) thinking,” he says. “But I think it’s very much open. It will all be down to form and how lads play in the build up to the World Cup. Obviously last season will have an impact on it but all I can focus on now is to get a game or two in the summer series and try to impress the coaches. I’m happy enough that there is a chance for me to get back in the nine jersey.”

twinytwo

theboss80 wrote: »

O'Leary Injury Free

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0708/1224300300965.html

oh god no... my grandmother would provide better service at 9 and she is dead