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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #3392
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    i agree and i think everyone agrees that hayes was an outstanding player who gave his all during a long and successful career i can see where people are coming from when they say he went down hill towards the end (and at his age it is expected) but there was no1 better to start so he stayed on mike ross should have gotten a start when he was at quins but we all know how the irfu feels about players based abroad so that was never going to happen and tony buckley was not better at all

    unfortunately we do not produce props (although we are very lucky to have ross and healy at the mo) so until they came through we were better off with him staying


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    #3393
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You're definitely going to know a lot of people. Some people you're going to know better than others. I think the lads will know each other and that's all that matters

    That's uncanny!


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    #3394
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Blaming Hayes for playing for Ireland is completely daft. The fault lies with the utterly jokeshop decisions of Kidney and Smal in selecting him.


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    #3395
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    danthefan wrote: »
    Blaming Hayes for playing for Ireland is completely daft. The fault lies with the utterly jokeshop decisions of Kidney and Smal in selecting him.

    who would you have picked ahead of him at the time


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    #3396
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    nerd69 wrote: »
    danthefan wrote: »
    Blaming Hayes for playing for Ireland is completely daft. The fault lies with the utterly jokeshop decisions of Kidney and Smal in selecting him.

    who would you have picked ahead of him at the time
    Against Samoa in 2010? Mike Ross. Very easy question to answer that one.


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    #3397
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    nerd69 wrote: »
    who would you have picked ahead of him at the time

    In the AIs in 2010, Ross obviously.


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    #3398
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    nerd69 wrote: »
    who would you have picked ahead of him at the time

    Mike Ross.

    is that not utterly obvious? The AIs of 2010 with Buckley and Hayes cornering the scrum while Ross had added serious structure to the Leinster scrum in the preceding 10 weeks was bizarre tbh.


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    #3399
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Against Samoa in 2010? Mike Ross. Very easy question to answer that one.

    ya i cant argue with that but and im not 100% sure but i think he was just gone to leinester at that stage so maybe it was a farewell thing for Hayes i think ross should have been starting since he played for quins tbh thats on the irfu geordan murphy got screwd by their policy for years what kind of first team would wales have if they did the same


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    #3400
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    nerd69 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Against Samoa in 2010? Mike Ross. Very easy question to answer that one.

    ya i cant argue with that but and im not 100% sure but i think he was just gone to leinester at that stage so maybe it was a farewell thing for Hayes i think ross should have been starting since he played for quins tbh thats on the irfu geordan murphy got screwd by their policy for years what kind of first team would wales have if they did the same
    Mike Ross had been at leinster for over a year at that stage. Hardly an excuse.


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    #3401
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    nerd69 wrote: »
    ya i cant argue with that but and im not 100% sure but i think he was just gone to leinester at that stage so maybe it was a farewell thing for Hayes i think ross should have been starting since he played for quins tbh thats on the irfu geordan murphy got screwd by their policy for years what kind of first team would wales have if they did the same

    He was in his 2nd season for Leinster and had been pretty excellent in the HEC to that point. He was patently the best scrummager Ireland had available and as soon as he got his chance for Ireland in the 6N (only through Hayes and Buckley getting injured) he was almost instantly given a central contract.


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    #3402
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Mike Ross had been at leinster for over a year at that stage. Hardly an excuse.

    ahh fair enough he absolutely should have been starting so


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    #3403
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    "If Ireland don’t perform in the Six Nations there is little said in the media. If Munster or Leinster miss out on the ERC play-offs, there is war. It is out of balance and it is not good for the national team’s cause."

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0326/1224313892937.html

    That's from Matt Williams in today's Irish Times.

    There is very little talk in the media about this. A couple of people have skirted with the idea but the vast majority have not.


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    #3404
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    "If Ireland don’t perform in the Six Nations there is little said in the media. If Munster or Leinster miss out on the ERC play-offs, there is war. It is out of balance and it is not good for the national team’s cause."

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0326/1224313892937.html

    That's from Matt Williams in today's Irish Times.

    There is very little talk in the media about this. A couple of people have skirted with the idea but the vast majority have not.

    I think the biggest difference is that both Munster and Leinster have tasted success and have ambitions of winning the HC every year. Ireland on the other have haven't really experienced much success so; a 6N like we had this year is like the provinces going out in the quarters. There is a disappointment, but no huge uproar.


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    #3405
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    I have come to another heretical conclusion. The majority of supporters are not as passionate about Ireland winning as they were 10 years ago. They get their winning feeling from the provinces.

    The Aviva does not crackle and spark with Irish passion like it did at Lansdowne Road. All the supporters want Ireland to succeed but they know their province will win on the Heineken Cup stage. The edge has come off the fever.


    While this is true, to not comment on the turgid ****e the national team has been spewing for the last 5 years is indicative of just why the national team gets away with being so rubbish. The media does not hold those responsible to account.


    If Ireland were in any way enjoyable to watch, the national team would be better supported.


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    #3406
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    tolosenc wrote: »
    While this is true, to not comment on the turgid ****e the national team has been spewing for the last 5 years is indicative of just why the national team gets away with being so rubbish. The media does not hold those responsible to account.


    If Ireland were in any way enjoyable to watch, the national team would be better supported.
    If they were winning.


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    #3407
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    tolosenc wrote: »
    While this is true, to not comment on the turgid ****e the national team has been spewing for the last 5 years is indicative of just why the national team gets away with being so rubbish. The media does not hold those responsible to account.


    If Ireland were in any way enjoyable to watch, the national team would be better supported.
    If they were winning.
    Yes, but a more exciting style of play would achieve the same result.


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    #3408
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes, but a more exciting style of play would achieve the same result.
    Has never happened before with any team. Expectancy towards results is what affects interest. Not style. Why do you think there is a buzz about England at the moment? Its not for their backplay. Wales were not exactly flashy either. Couple of good scores but more or less played meat and two veg rugby, ensuring they were there or thereabouts towards the end of the game.
    How did Munster gain such a following since 2000 while playing as they did? Because they were either in the races or won. Leinster played with even more width when Matt Williams was in charge yet support sagged when they fluffed yet another playoff.
    Support is results-based, as said many times before here. Chucking it about has never achieved the same.


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    #3409
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Yeah well for the most part Ireland are playing crap rugby and losing; so we have the worst of both worlds and Farrelly and Thornley just blame the provinces.


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    #3410
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Short Term Matrix of Enjoyment for a fan

    Style
    Result Win Lose
    Good :D :cool:
    Bad :cool: :mad:


    A Long Term Matrix of Enjoyment for a fan

    Style
    Result Win Lose
    Good :D :mad:
    Bad :mad: :mad:


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    #3411
    siltirocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    leftleg wrote: »
    Yeah well for the most part Ireland are playing crap rugby and losing; so we have the worst of both worlds and Farrelly and Thornley just blame the provinces.

    In fairness people aren't mad on Farrelly but he seems to be the only major writter looking for change and a shake up in every article, a lot mirroring those of posters on this forum.


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    #3412
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes, but a more exciting style of play would achieve the same result.
    Has never happened before with any team. Expectancy towards results is what affects interest. Not style. Why do you think there is a buzz about England at the moment? Its not for their backplay. Wales were not exactly flashy either. Couple of good scores but more or less played meat and two veg rugby, ensuring they were there or thereabouts towards the end of the game.
    How did Munster gain such a following since 2000 while playing as they did? Because they were either in the races or won. Leinster played with even more width when Matt Williams was in charge yet support sagged when they fluffed yet another playoff.
    Support is results-based, as said many times before here. Chucking it about has never achieved the same.
    England and Wakes are incomporable to.Ireland right now. Both teams valued possession over territory this year. The ying to our complete failure of a yang.

    I never said results aren't important, but there are plenty of examples of teams in sports all over the world who have garnered support based on style of play despite results.


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    #3413
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    England and Wakes are incomporable to.Ireland right now. Both teams valued possession over territory this year. The ying to our complete failure of a yang
    Their support was boosted immeasurably by results, despite their style. Its applicable to any team in any sport.
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I never said results aren't important, but there are plenty of examples of teams in sports all over the world who have garnered support based on style of play despite results.
    Which teams are you thinking of that have seen a rise in support despite results? Genuine question, by the way. Not picking a blue with you.


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    #3414
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Which teams are you thinking of that have seen a rise in support despite results? Genuine question, by the way. Not picking a blue with you.

    Connacht


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    #3415
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Connacht

    Connacht made avail of a spot in the higher ERC comp as Leinster won it last year, and boosted crowds at the Sportsgrounds. Also the success of Connacht beating other Irish provinces contributed. Thats why demand spikes for games against these sides.


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    #3416
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Connacht made avail of a spot in the higher ERC comp as Leinster won it last year, and boosted crowds at the Sportsgrounds. Also the success of Connacht beating other Irish provinces contributed. Thats why demand spikes for games against these sides.

    I'm aware. But I thought that presenting massively grey areas of an argument as a black and white case was a good idea to highlight how you're treating the "results" = "support" issue.

    I would also be impressed if Connacht's win ratio vs the other Provinces has changed significantly in the last 10 years


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    #3417
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm aware. But I thought that presenting massively grey areas of an argument as a black and white case was a good idea to highlight how you're treating the "results" = "support" issue.

    I would also be impressed if Connacht's win ratio vs the other Provinces has changed significantly in the last 10 years
    The success of a team can be matched to its profile, whereas the style of a team (not only being subjective in what is stylish and what is not), is far more difficult to nail.

    A basic yet fundamental sports business element.


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    #3418
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    The success of a team can be matched to its profile, whereas the style of a team (not only being subjective in what is stylish and what is not), is far more difficult to nail.

    A basic yet fundamental sports business element.

    yes but there's an absolutely massive, massive relationship between a style and the success of the team.

    You're presenting a case that this doesn't exist.


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    #3419
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Their support was boosted immeasurably by results, despite their style. Its applicable to any team in any sport.


    Which teams are you thinking of that have seen a rise in support despite results? Genuine question, by the way. Not picking a blue with you.

    Scotland this season


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    #3420
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    yes but there's an absolutely massive, massive relationship between a style and the success of the team.

    You're presenting a case that this doesn't exist.
    Surely you're skipping an element to come to a conclusion here? Still fails to disprove that results are what matters when it comes to the worth of a team in attaracting new or previously lapsed support.

    Style is immaterial to a result, in what you're trying to convey. Execution would be a more relevant. The effectiveness of execution would determine the result, rather than the style as England, Wales and France have shown in the RWC and in the Six Nations. South Africa have won two RWCs with about as little 'style' as you can apply to a rugby match.

    Getting very philosophical and scientific now. Thats my cue...for the proverbial coat! lol


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    #3421
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    shuffol wrote: »
    Scotland this season
    Where was the rise in support? Ticket sales remained at same levels as pre-RWC. Expectancy? How is it now? Did Edinburgh's ERC form have anything to do with this? Will Andy Robinson still be Scotland coach this summer or in November?

    A little more complex, I would think.


This discussion has been closed.
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