Cheating in the Leaving Cert

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

spankyman

Oh hai, I'm banned from the LC forum now.......

Fad

spankyman wrote: »

Your a fecking sap, thats just gonna make more trouble for u nd d people ur reportin r obv gonna find out it was u nd kick ur head in tosser

Bye now.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

irondragons wrote: »

Why so Ad hominem?

I don't speak latin, and I'm not going googling.
Can you actually explain how you think the average student, in an exam with only their brain, is going to do better than someone with a book, or are you just a troll?

irondragons

Red Alert wrote: »

Just a warning shot to a few people to watch what they say on this: please think before you type.

I wonder if the state will bother investigating people playing the devil's advocate in this thread.

DaveyDave

Making It Bad wrote: »

A 'piss take' which we've spent the last 6 years of our lives preparing for.

I hate these cool college kids who suddenly after they've completed the LC downplay it at every opportunity possible.

Depends on what way you look at it and probably the school you're in/went to.

I think the LC is a joke. I'm know the most about Information Technology and have the most interest in it out of all the people in my school, but I'm unlikely to get into college because I'm not going to do well in my exams yet someone else in the class is likely to do the course I want.

I'm studying, but a family issue ****ed up the past 2 years of my life, so if I don't get into college it's because I don't know much about things that are irrelevant to what I want to do in life, like King Lear. Funnily enough, I can read, write and speak fine. My grammar isn't the best, but it's fine and I can spell. But that won't help me get into college. It's not like I'm not trying.

I'll be lucky to even get on a PLC course, but I only found out about them a month ago thanks to my school's crap career guidance. I got rejected from a PLC course the day before the Leaving started, despite being told to go back in July and after an interview that went really well, I don't have high hopes.

They really need to sort out the LC. School should be like a PLC course.

irondragons

Lisa Round Planet wrote: »

I don't speak latin, and I'm not going googling.
Can you actually explain how you think the average student, in an exam with only their brain, is going to do better than someone with a book, or are you just a troll?

Okay. Let's weigh out all the possibilities in the situation :

How much time does one have in a bathroom before it starts looking suspicious? And of course, more than one visit to the bathroom during the exam is going to look suspicious too. So, let's say 10 minutes. You have 10 minutes to memorize massive essays and a whole load of questions during that short period of time. You're not going to get a whole load done.

You should also consider : the cheaters are going to be studying under immense pressure. Probably most of the information will go right through them.

So, 10 minutes, immense pressure and gambling on the possibility you won't get caught. It doesn't exactly look like the expressway to an A1 to me.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

irondragons wrote: »

Okay. Let's weigh out all the possibilities in the situation :

How much time does one have in a bathroom before it starts looking suspicious? And of course, more than one visit to the bathroom during the exam is going to look suspicious too. So, let's say 10 minutes. You have 10 minutes to memorize massive essays and a whole load of questions during that short period of time. You're not going to get a whole load done.

You should also consider : the cheaters are going to be studying under immense pressure. Probably most of the information will go right through them.

So, 10 minutes, immense pressure and gambling on the possibility you won't get caught. It doesn't exactly look like the expressway to an A1 to me.

10 minutes is more than enough when you know exactly what answers you need. It's also more than enough to learn the main points of an essay off, especially when you're going straight to writing it once you're done looking at the book.
They get to go to the bathroom and look for answers to the exact questions on the paper. The people who aren't cheating have a brain crammed full of now useless information, along with the little bits they need for the exam.

Also, the part in bold, yeaaahh.... no. It works the other way. When you're under immense pressure your mind will go into overdrive and act like a sponge. How do you think cramming works? I've noticed it as have many others, they're doing better than they've ever done in school exams.

kylerr

the peeps who need to cheat are prob just lookin for a pass... therefore not gona be much of a threat to your college place

ldxo15wus6fpgm

kylerr wrote: »

the peeps who need to cheat are prob just lookin for a pass... therefore not gona be much of a threat to your college place

You obviously haven't heard of Salman85

irondragons

Lisa Round Planet wrote: »

10 minutes is more than enough when you know exactly what answers you need.

derp.

Well, I'm guessing you have experience in this field, so I'll take your word for it, champ.

JellyBeans92

It's not right that people are cheating in your centre, or any other centre.
These people are just cheating college places off you, but the odd 60,000 others of us sitting exams this year.

Why should these people be allowed to cheat, when the rest of us have had to work really hard for the last few months...

Also, think about it for one second.. If it comes out about these people cheating, and that you knew and said nothing how's that going to look for you?
Maybe they'll think you were too if you don't say anything.


Someone in your centre needs to stand up for the rest of us honest people and tell the true.


Good Luck with the rest of you exams btw, and don't stress about this cheating going on around, you've done nothing wrong and there's no reason to not tell the true, besides the Debs you mightened see half of those people again after the LC

ldxo15wus6fpgm

irondragons wrote: »

derp.

Well, I'm guessing you have experience in this field, so I'll take your word for it, champ.

I'm not proud of it, but I like many others have cheated in xmas and summer tests.
However I take pride in the fact that I didn't even consider it for the JC or LC, and frankly I am disgusted at the people trying to justify it.

fufureida

LutherBlissett wrote: »

It is also important to note that due to the harsh penalty for cheating, many supervisors are unwilling to report or note the incident.*
*
Finally - there is a limit to the amount of advantage you can gain by cheating. So, you might have the textbook in the bathroom. In reality - you can only spend a couple of minutes in the bathroom away from authority. You might pick up one definition or one formula. That won't carry a C3 student to an A1.*Try to be rational and gain a measure of perspective.

Someone I know for a fact is cheating. He went to the bathroom 4 times in one exam. And goes quite often in the rest. That could mean a difference of 20+ points. It could mean a B1 instead of a B3. He carries notes in the hood of his hoodie; I know this for a fact. Rational measure? Pffft ...*

I can't believe people are saying not to care. What is it with people not speaking out against wrongs? This decision of not telling could effect everyone in the end. And it's simple not fair! It's the leaving cert not shorty mock exams where no one cares. This can actually make a difference!

The reason I said he should tape it is because HOW will he prove it if he does tell?

watevertrevor

AlmostFamous wrote: »

Admittedly my use of the word snitch was a bit harsh and I apologize for it. However, I still feel you shouldn't expose the cheating by your fellow peers. It is not your responsibilty that they are cheating. I wouldn't be able to expose my friends and fellow peers if I was aware that they were cheating. I feel that the risk they take by cheating is wreckless and that somewhere down the line the cheater's faults will be exposed.

yeah... if the OP does the responsible thing and expose them!

zam

This makes me really angry and upset to hear... some of us (myself included) have been working really hard all year, to hear this makes me depressed that some people can do as well without the same effort... Please please report it, although it's probable that it goes on in a lot of places around the country

irondragons

Lisa Round Planet wrote: »

I'm not proud of it, but I like many others have cheated in xmas and summer tests.
However I take pride in the fact that I didn't even consider it for the JC or LC, and frankly I am disgusted at the people trying to justify it.

Eh. Let's leave it there then.

Cheating is undeniably immoral, and I'm not trying to justify cheating at all. I'm just trying to help the OP cut the cheater some slack. The cheaters are obviously not very intelligent and they're clearly not aiming very high.

Although, we can agree that Ireland would be a much better place full of cheaters with a sub-par Leaving Cert, than an Ireland full of cheaters with absolutely no qualifications. Unless you consider moral obligation worth more than a steady economy.

fufureida

irondragons wrote: »

Eh. Let's leave it there then.

Cheating is undeniably immoral, and I'm not trying to justify cheating at all. I'm just trying to help the OP cut the cheater some slack. The cheaters are obviously not very intelligent and they're clearly not aiming very high.

I mean, we can agree that Ireland would be a much better place filled with a bunch of cheaters with a mediocre Leaving Cert, than an Ireland filled with a bunch of cheaters with absolutely no qualifications. Unless, you know, you consider moral obligation worth more than a steady economy.

um hello? Did you hear of the guy who cheated, told everyone about it, and got 500 plus points?

itac

imo, it's the old adage, "it's the principle of the matter".

I never bothered cheating on tests, because although it may have been handy for summer/xmas results to bring home nice results to the parentals, it was only myself I was cheating. I knew my possibilities if I studied, and my limits if I didn't, and I opted to limit myself by not studying-c'est la vie.

It showed when I did my LC, and only studied (ie re-read my books & notes the week before) for the exams I wanted, and therefore failed several subjects. I knew I was screwed in at least 2 of them, and could've tried to wrangle some magic way of cheating, but why would I bother? That was my choice then.

The LC is a rite of passage growing up, for some it leads to college, for others it leads to their life. It's not the be all & end all it's made out to be, and you will go through far harder "tests" in your life.

Cheating is a part of life. Seeing as it's World Cup time, let's reference Henri**. He had a choice to accept the cheating, or call on it, not once, but twice in a matter of moments. He chose not to call it until long after it mattered. These cheaters may look back in 10+ years time as I'm doing, and wonder about the choices they made a decade ago. They may not. But if they're called on it, it's a lifelong lesson. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't.

These kind of choices are in front of everyone at some point in their life. The cheaters have chosen to cheat, it's up to others whether they want to accept that cheating, and let it slide or not, and Samskeyti doesn't want to let it slide. Kudos to her for that choice.

**can so see this becoming the Irish Godwin's Law....:D

Samskeyti

fufureida wrote: »

Someone I know for a fact is cheating. He went to the bathroom 4 times in one exam. And goes quite often in the rest. That could mean a difference of 20+ points. It could mean a B1 instead of a B3. He carries notes in the hood of his hoodie; I know this for a fact. Rational measure? Pffft ...*

I can't believe people are saying not to care. What is it with people not speaking out against wrongs? This decision of not telling could effect everyone in the end. And it's simple not fair! It's the leaving cert not shorty mock exams where no one cares. This can actually make a difference!

The reason I said he should tape it is because HOW will he prove it if he does tell?

I noticed that there's people ADMITTING to cheating in the Leaving Cert on their facebook, maybe some of the people you are on about might be doing the same. Screenshots could work here

Samskeyti

itac wrote: »

imo, it's the old adage, "it's the principle of the matter".

I never bothered cheating on tests, because although it may have been handy for summer/xmas results to bring home nice results to the parentals, it was only myself I was cheating. I knew my possibilities if I studied, and my limits if I didn't, and I opted to limit myself by not studying-c'est la vie.

It showed when I did my LC, and only studied (ie re-read my books & notes the week before) for the exams I wanted, and therefore failed several subjects. I knew I was screwed in at least 2 of them, and could've tried to wrangle some magic way of cheating, but why would I bother? That was my choice then.

The LC is a rite of passage growing up, for some it leads to college, for others it leads to their life. It's not the be all & end all it's made out to be, and you will go through far harder "tests" in your life.

Cheating is a part of life. Seeing as it's World Cup time, let's reference Henri**. He had a choice to accept the cheating, or call on it, not once, but twice in a matter of moments. He chose not to call it until long after it mattered. These cheaters may look back in 10+ years time as I'm doing, and wonder about the choices they made a decade ago. They may not. But if they're called on it, it's a lifelong lesson. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't.

These kind of choices are in front of everyone at some point in their life. The cheaters have chosen to cheat, it's up to others whether they want to accept that cheating, and let it slide or not, and Samskeyti doesn't want to let it slide. Kudos to him for that choice.

**can so see this becoming the Irish Godwin's Law....:D

Thank you, and it's a she btw lol

ldxo15wus6fpgm

irondragons wrote: »

Although, we can agree that Ireland would be a much better place full of cheaters with a sub-par Leaving Cert, than an Ireland full of cheaters with absolutely no qualifications. Unless you consider moral obligation worth more than a steady economy.

Eh, no. If people succeed in cheating their Leaving Cert what's to stop them committing acts of fraud etc. in the workplace? Our government, banks etc. are already full of cheaters, and look how that turned out. Hardly a steady economy is it? Covering up cheating is not the answer, they need to be exposed immediately IMO.

Also, I wouldn't advise recording conversations to the OP. Firstly, if they were ever shown the evidence they'd immediately know it was you. Secondly they could just say they were acting cool / trying to wind you up or whatever. The only way to get them is to catch them red handed.

fufureida

Lisa Round Planet wrote: »

Eh, no. If people succeed in cheating their Leaving Cert what's to stop them committing acts of fraud etc. in the workplace? Our government, banks etc. are already full of cheaters, and look how that turned out. Hardly a steady economy is it? Covering up cheating is not the answer, they need to be exposed immediately IMO.

Agreed

Jack Leahy

Samskeyti wrote: »

They're not 'peers' or 'friends' of mine. I don't see why I should protect them, I owe them nothing. They could be exposed but I believe it'll be too late, maybe when they take the places of people who actually worked. So I'm going to put a stop to this before they wreck our futures by taking our places in college.

"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that a few good men do nothing"

As it is, I'm trying to contact the SEC about this post.

itac

Samskeyti wrote: »

Thank you, and it's a she btw lol

ooops!:o Was still working on the assumption that you were the facebook page I saw, sorry! Had that problem myself a few times, doh to non-gender specific usernames:D

Samskeyti

Jack Leahy wrote: »

"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that a few good men do nothing"

As it is, I'm trying to contact the SEC about this post.

Already emailed them with the link to it

Mr Cawley

the SEC have procedures and they will Not compromise themselves.

they would not admit they're not in contol!

join the cheaters or else focus on yourself.

if you get every definition correct Nobody can take an A away from you.

only you can get the required points,

2% of cheaters will not increase the points entry for a course significantly,

good luck everyone

watevertrevor

Just contacted the SEC and gave them a link to this thread. This kind of behaviour cannot go unchecked.

Samskeyti

watevertrevor wrote: »

Just contacted the SEC and gave them a link to this thread. This kind of behaviour cannot go unchecked.

Thanks for helping to stop this cheating

irondragons

I just had an epiphany, guys.

Playing the devil's advocate has just wasted me 3 hours of precious studying time.

God dammit.

FyeaG

...I see my class mates goin to toilet, and u kno for what, like 3 times in the exam, and the examiners just laughs, thinkin they need just for a piss, also some got notes und whiler the jumpers or in socks, examiner turns away, they put the notes on tabble between the papers, and here u go, at the end they just put it in the pocket while she again not lookin, also some use phones in the back, but thats risky, some got new tattoos on hands, if u kno what i mean while me, i wont cheat, i rather fail bein fare than act tough while u dumb...

Samskeyti

FyeaG wrote: »

...I see my class mates goin to toilet, and u kno for what, like 3 times in the exam, and the examiners just laughs, thinkin they need just for a piss, also some got notes und whiler the jumpers or in socks, examiner turns away, they put the notes on tabble between the papers, and here u go, at the end they just put it in the pocket while she again not lookin, also some use phones in the back, but thats risky, some got new tattoos on hands, if u kno what i mean while me, i wont cheat, i rather fail bein fare than act tough while u dumb...

Same thing is happening in my school...

watevertrevor

irondragons wrote: »

I just had an epiphany, guys.

Playing the devil's advocate has just wasted me 3 hours of precious studying time.

God dammit.

You're right. Nothing more can be said or done now. Although i urge everyone who wants to put a stop to this cheating to contact the SEC themselves as a sort of petition if you like. The more voices there are, the more action will be taken.

stainluss

Mr Cawley wrote: »

2% of cheaters will not increase the points entry for a course significantly,

If those who cheat take so much as one place off an honest student, then IMO its a disgrace and the SEC have failed.

The people who cheat are cheating us all due to the bell curve and the distribution of college places.

Hopefully, the SEC will put additional measures in at your school and any other which cheating could be taking place..
No one will know who done it and cheating will be prevented:)
Its not about concentrating on yourself as others have said, these are national exams, these guys are ****ing us all over:mad:

FyeaG

Samskeyti wrote: »

Same thing is happening in my school...

But u waist alot of time by doin so, and u can get caught + u can wont find what u need or lookin for to answer, so i just play this fair and square

Please refrain from using txtspit, thanks! - Mod.

randylonghorn

Samskeyti wrote: »

I'm logged in on this account but this isn't my account, so I doubt you know what school I'm talking about but to be honest I have no problem with saying what school it is because it's a lousy one that only cares about its reputation, not the students who go there.

- Don't mention details on the internet.

- Do remember that the account you are using may be known to others, and that person may get some of the backlash.

Jack Leahy wrote: »

"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that a few good men do nothing"

Longfellow, good to see someone knows a few poets not on LC course.

Samskeyti wrote: »

Already emailed them with the link to it

That's not going to do much good, they need specifics.

The section which deals with exam centres is at this email: user.super@examinations.ie

Email them the relevant details re: school etc., you don't necessarily need to name names if you don't want to, they will hopefully ensure that the supers get a kick up the arse and wake up.

If you wish, you can do so anonymously, it takes 2 minutes to set up a new email on yahoo or whatever.

Then put it out of your head and concentrate on your own work.



And those of you who are saying "sure, what harm, no-one gets hurt?" ... *

When these people cheat in the LC, and get away with it, what lesson do they learn?

That it's ok to cheat in life, and to hell with who gets hurt.

So they go ahead to cheat in business, in politics, in life, and to hell with who gets hurt.

It could be you, your family, your friends ...

Is that really the kind of world you are happy to grow up in, silently, without lifting one finger in defense of honesty, of integrity, of honour?




* They do actually, btw ... even 5 extra points gained by cheating could easily knock someone out of a college place. And it is not just those afraid of failing who attempt to cheat!

xMeganx

Its not so bad to do it for a christmas or summer exam but for the LC! a state exam like! thats really unfair on other people cos the person who cheated would end up getting a place in the collage when they dont even deserve it!!! :mad:

XXRachelXX

About time to close the thread now I'd say, people are starting to get distracted from studying and arguments are starting to break out

randylonghorn

XXRachelXX wrote: »

About time to close the thread now I'd say, people are starting to get distracted from studying and arguments are starting to break out

Then people need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions, whether it's their study or what they do when people around them are cheating ...

LadyGaga!

irondragons wrote: »

No, I don't think you get the point. The possibility of someone robbing you of a college place is next to zero. It's a silly sentiment that doesn't really justify ratting someone out.

Also, if someone does go out of their way to cheat, the chances are that they don't know the material as well as you, and thus, their answers will come out clunky and incoherent.

You're really missing the point.

For example, I'm thinking of some of my friends here who aren't the strongest in some subjects - they study night and day but they're not good at a subject but they try their best and get say, a B3. One of the cheaters is just pure lazy but has the ability to do well and knows how to use the material they've just spent 5 minutes in the toilet learning, or the past 10 minutes they've just spent copying the material from their cheat sheet to the official sheet. They've done no study all year but using the material they've learned in 5 minutes or copied down during the exam gets them a B2. Without using the material they've just learned they would have gotten say a C1.

Both apply for the same courses - the cheater gets the last place because they got those 5 extra points.

How is that fair when they didn't put effort in before the exam and just took the easy way out? Why should they be allowed to get away with it?

Oh Sheesh Yall Twas A Dream

fufureida wrote: »

Someone I know for a fact is cheating. He went to the bathroom 4 times in one exam. And goes quite often in the rest. That could mean a difference of 20+ points. It could mean a B1 instead of a B3. He carries notes in the hood of his hoodie; I know this for a fact. Rational measure? Pffft ...*

I can't believe people are saying not to care. What is it with people not speaking out against wrongs? This decision of not telling could effect everyone in the end. And it's simple not fair! It's the leaving cert not shorty mock exams where no one cares. This can actually make a difference!

The reason I said he should tape it is because HOW will he prove it if he does tell?

And when he gets caught cheating they will say they have a recording of you admitting to it, he will deny it and say that he was only messing.They don't have enough proof ... he will get away with ... he tells all your peers that you ratted him out and everyone will think that you are the one in the wrong

randylonghorn

Oh Sheesh Yall Twas A Dream wrote: »

<modsnip>

Less of the name-calling, please.

watevertrevor

Taping someone admitting to cheating won't hold up anyway. It's called entrapment.

muffinz

Im afraid to even think about cheating, imagine the look on your parents when you get an NG in everything! Those people are disgraceful...!

fufureida

watevertrevor wrote: »

Taping someone admitting to cheating won't hold up anyway. It's called entrapment.

No its not. You could just say tge record button accidently got pressed ( which sounds ridiculous but has happened to me before )
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. I don't care if he/she told my peers. He can lick my asre hole for all I care, and tge other lot.
I really don't get you people. Oh, he's cheating; so what. Let's not do anything. A girl I know who cheated in 2007 got 525 points. She admitted to ms later she hid alot if notes in her bra.

I basically hate cheaters. Scum of the earth.

SquirrelFace

Its not fair. Why should they get the advantages when Im the one who's actually worked? Snitch sounds like theres some honour code about not telling on cheaters. Well *feck* them... Seeing as its poin ts that count, and these people are getting points theyve neither worked for or deserved, then tell!!! You should write an email to the SEC or something, and tell them the superintendents dont care. Theyll send new ones, like they did with the guy in the paper today who was using Twitter.

sheep-go-baa

Even if the cheaters are only doing it for a C or D, there are other people out there who work their asses off to get that C or D. Cheaters can steal college places from high point scorers and low point scorers.

fufureida

Twitter..? I didn't hear about this...

Cook!eMonster

Hmm i was wondering about this too. reporting a lad in my centre who cheated. I just mght now!