2010 Dublin Marathon- Sub 3 mentored thread

ELFOYZER

Hey there,

Unfortunately I will be away from tomorrow on hols.(Yippee!)
Would have liked to hook up with you all - perhaps sunday after, 15th Aug if that suits?

8 min mile pace is pretty much where I'm at on LSR's and I would make an effort and juggle things about to run later. Phounix Park would be my preference but would be flexible on that too.

I'll be back on Friday, 13th with update of my training. Talk to you all then and happy miles to ya all!!!

kaymin

I'm in Galway for the weekend - doing the Streets of Galway 8k race. Plan is to do the recovery run / walk tomorrow instead of on Saturday.

Should be around Sunday 15 August for a LSR if that suits.

Speedy44

kaymin wrote: »

I'm in Galway for the weekend - doing the Streets of Galway 8k race. Plan is to do the recovery run / walk tomorrow instead of on Saturday.

Should be around Sunday 15 August for a LSR if that suits.

If your looking for a LSR on Sunday morning, there is a club run that starts from the Cathedral at 9am. We normally get a bunch of people that have done the Streets down as well to blow off the cobwebs from the 8K (and sometimes the post race pints;)).

The run is 11mls but for folks that want to go longer we start at the pavillion in Dangan (NUIG sportgrounds) and run down, that normally gives us 14mls, if you want to tie on anymore there is a 2.25ml loop in Dangan as well.

smmoore79

ecoli wrote: »

Right lads (and ladies if we have any) lets start sorting out this LSR on Sunday. I am thinking around 11-12 in the park maybe? (again this will be based on majority rule)

Also be nice to get peoples usual LSR pace so we can try and find common ground in terms of pace i was thinking around 8 min pace or so unless people think it too fast/slow (again this will be a majority ruling)

So just drop your name and pace if you are interested in coming (and also time of day if suggested doesnt suit) and hopefully we can facilitate everyone

I'll be up in Portrush this Sunday so wont be able to join. Somehow have to do 18 miles up there. havent run past 15 yet!!

kaymin

Speedy44 wrote: »

If your looking for a LSR on Sunday morning, there is a club run that starts from the Cathedral at 9am. We normally get a bunch of people that have done the Streets down as well to blow off the cobwebs from the 8K (and sometimes the post race pints;)).

The run is 11mls but for folks that want to go longer we start at the pavillion in Dangan (NUIG sportgrounds) and run down, that normally gives us 14mls, if you want to tie on anymore there is a 2.25ml loop in Dangan as well.

Thanks for the heads up - might prove difficult to get up so early on a Sunday but I'll try.

donothoponpop

ecoli wrote: »

Right lads (and ladies if we have any) lets start sorting out this LSR on Sunday. I am thinking around 11-12 in the park maybe? (again this will be based on majority rule)

Also be nice to get peoples usual LSR pace so we can try and find common ground in terms of pace i was thinking around 8 min pace or so unless people think it too fast/slow (again this will be a majority ruling)

So just drop your name and pace if you are interested in coming (and also time of day if suggested doesnt suit) and hopefully we can facilitate everyone

Have family stuff later in the day, so the only way I could do this would be an 8am start.

But its a great idea, and I'd like to try and get together for LSR's maybe when people aren't so busy with hols etc.

(PS. I've been traveling the past couple of days, and time was short, but the thought of other runners sticking by the program forced me out for 11 yesterday and 8 today!)

donothoponpop

Week 7 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|||193
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|||148.5|


Another good week, managed to stick to the program throughout the week. I've started doing cold baths (or sea plunges when I can) after the hard runs, and have noticed a huge improvement in muscle recovery. Having said that, happy that tomorrow is a day off!

ecoli

Another week down 11 to go

Having a look through the odd training log and seems as though you are coming along nicely. Again other feedback always appreciated. Another fairly heavy week this week but the good news is that next week is a down week in the build up to the Frank Duffy for those of you who are doing it. Anyone who is not i will replace that day with another session in the training so dont worry im not forgetting about ya

Here is this weeks schedule anyway

Monday| Rest
Tuesday| 4 miles (easy), 5x2 min hills+ cool down
Wednesday| 12 miles easy
Thursday|4 miles (easy), 3x1 mile (10 k pace) 3 min recovery, 1mile cool down
Friday| 8 miles easy
Saturday| 4 miles recovery
Sunday|8 miles easy 9 miles MP


Rather than have a topic regarding training this week i thought it might be a bit better to give ourselves a reminder about the joys of running. Hopefully this can motivate training now that we are getting to the heavy stuff.

So this week i want people to give a bit of a race report on there favourite ever race they have run. It doesnt have to be your fastest just your favourite and you dont even have to give your times if you dont want. The idea is hopefully this will help motivate and inspire your fellow sub 3 runners.

donothoponpop

ecoli wrote: »

Again other feedback always appreciated. Another fairly heavy week this week

Purely for the sake of feedback- am I alone in feeling like this was a step-back week? Lots of easy miles, limited fast running. Just throwing that out there, but it seemed like an "easy" week compared to previous.

ecoli wrote: »

Rather than have a topic regarding training this week i thought it might be a bit better to give ourselves a reminder about the joys of running. Hopefully this can motivate training now that we are getting to the heavy stuff.

So this week i want people to give a bit of a race report on there favourite ever race they have run. It doesnt have to be your fastest just your favourite and you dont even have to give your times if you dont want. The idea is hopefully this will help motivate and inspire your fellow sub 3 runners.

DM '08, ran it feeling like I was holding something in reserve until 8 miles to go, the pain started in the legs. Nothing terrible, just like I had to maintain the pace. Got home passing runners all the way in the last 8, happy to finish, but able to run a few more miles if I had to. Was going for 3:15, came in at 3:10, max milage was about 45 a week.

I want to be able to say I ran sub 3 for a marathon, its going to happen this time in Dublin. Motivation is I'm a better person than the fat bast*rd I was a few years back, smoking and drinking for distraction rather than pleasure.

ecoli

donothoponpop wrote: »

Purely for the sake of feedback- am I alone in feeling like this was a step-back week? Lots of easy miles, limited fast running. Just throwing that out there, but it seemed like an "easy" week compared to previous.

Interesting in comparing it to the week before there was only one more session
that week which was a fartlek so as such shouldnt have taken too much out of ya. Though there was less fast miles this week they were at a slightly higher intensity to give you a bit of zip come next week. If you found this week easy thats probably a good thing. The plan will be to alternate MP session one week with HMP the following both building up. The idea is the HMP sessions are there to develop your threshold while the MP will be able to cope with race pace.

I dunno did other people find this an easier week?

Bloody Nipples

Week 7 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|||193
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|4-5|38.5|187|

Speedy44

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

Week 7 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26|6 |63 | 277|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|||193
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|4-5|38.5|187|

kaymin

Week 7 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26|6 |63 | 277|
kaymin|n/a|5|50|332
ELFOYZER|3.29|||193
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|4-5|38.5|187|

Summary for the week:

Monday 12km steady kayak - excluded from summary table above.

Tuesday 2 mile warm up 6-8 x 1k @ 5k +5-7 secs pace (1 min - 90 sec recovery) 2 mile cool down
Efforts averaged: 3:47, 3:31, 3:41, 3:29, 3:39, 3:32, 3:45, 3:30
Every second effort was slightly downhill and with the wind whereas every other effort was slightly uphill and against the wind. Struggled with this session.

Wednesday 11 miles easy - average 6:56 per mile.

Thursday 8 miles easy - average 7:17 per mile. Slowed it up in an attempt to rest up for the race on Saturday.

Friday Rest

Saturday Streets of Galway 8km race
Disappointed with how I ran this race. Plan was to run 3:30 per km - this was too fast and I should have realised that from Tuesdays session. First two km were on target. Settled into a group for 3rd km and did it in 3:37 - too slow I thought and increased the pace - did the 4th km in 3:26 - big mistake! Struggled a little on the 5th km and went through 5km in about 17:45 - a pb. Completely died for the last 3km and ended up counting down the minutes in an effort to keep me going - was passed by over 10 people over the last 2km. Managed to push it for the last 500m in an effort to get under 29. Finished in 28:55 for 50th place. Was hoping for 28 flat but slight headwind on last 2km and poor pacing put an end to that target.

28:55 Km splits were: 3:24, 3:29, 3:37, 3:26, 3:35, 3:42, 3:47, 3:42, 0.09

Sunday 17 miles easy - 1:58:50 - average 7mins flat per mile. Felt comfortable throughout. Started in Salthill and went 8.5 miles towards Spiddal and then back again.

kaymin

ecoli wrote: »

Interesting in comparing it to the week before there was only one more session
that week which was a fartlek so as such shouldnt have taken too much out of ya. Though there was less fast miles this week they were at a slightly higher intensity to give you a bit of zip come next week. If you found this week easy thats probably a good thing. The plan will be to alternate MP session one week with HMP the following both building up. The idea is the HMP sessions are there to develop your threshold while the MP will be able to cope with race pace.

I dunno did other people find this an easier week?

I struggled with the 1km efforts session on Tuesday - I don't think I'd fully recovered from the long run with half at MP from the previous Sunday. This tiredness carried through to the sessions on Wednesday and Thursday. Didn't feel like an easy week to me. Taking Friday off seemed to set me right though.

Bloody Nipples

I have a question I've been meaning to ask for a few days now, assuming that the goal of everyone here is 2:59:59 and that anything else is a bonus then I'd assume that the way to achieve this is to run with the 3 hour pace group then push on at the end to come in before them.

However, I seem to recall from somewhere that it's in a pacer's remit to finish within 30 secs of the mark, in this case 3 hours. So if the pace group is looking to come in at 3:00:30ish (no complaints if they're coming in at 2:59:30 though :pac:) at what point do we leave the pace group to ensure we reach that 2:59:59 goal and finish 31 secs ahead? It would appear to me that leaving it for a sprint in the last mile wouldn't cut it but going too early could also be disasterous. Is this info even correct?

Also, if in the unlikely event your chip time was under 3 hours but your gun time wasn't, would you consider that you had run a sub 3 hour marathon?

For example in my last marathon there was a difference of two mins between my chip and my gun times because my Dad had disappeared and I was standing there frozen looking for him with an armful of clothes while people took off around me, thankfully some nice chap took pity on my obvious predicament and offered to look after my clothes for me!

donothoponpop

The pacers will run 6:51 miles consistantly (+or- a few seconds where hills are a factor), and will come in around 2:59:30, give or take. The 30 secs only works before the goal, no point anyone pacing to 30 secs after. Main pacer for sub3 is a great guy, who will bang out the perfect splits. There will be no banking time or anything, aim is for even splits.

Since the goal is 2:59:xx (rather than 2:56 or :57), just stick with the pacers until mile 24 or so, if you feel like you have a little extra, push on ahead.

The pacers will work chip-to-chip, meaning they will start their watch when they cross the line, rather than with the gun. We'll be toward the front, so the sub3 group will only have a few seconds difference between gun and chip. Obviously, the later groups will experience more delay, but that's why the chips are there. Everyone quotes their pb as their chip time, that's no different than a previous generation who started their stopwatch when they crossed the line.

Krusty_Clown

Bloody nips wrote:

Also, if in the unlikely event your chip time was under 3 hours but your gun time wasn't, would you consider that you had run a sub 3 hour marathon?

Qualifying times (good for age, Boston Qualifier) take chip time into account, so yes, if a sub 3 chip time is good enough for race officials to count as a sub-3, it should be good enough for you or I!

Bloody Nipples

Cheers lads, I was always wondering was I cheating by going by my chip time rather than gun time, nice to get that cleared up!!

donothoponpop

ecoli wrote: »

So this week i want people to give a bit of a race report on there favourite ever race they have run. It doesnt have to be your fastest just your favourite and you dont even have to give your times if you dont want. The idea is hopefully this will help motivate and inspire your fellow sub 3 runners.

This is from a while back, Spring 2009 when I was training for Rotterdam. It's hard to pick a favorite hill race, they're all memorable, but this was a goodie, in that I had a great ding-dong with Krusty, just before he became a great runner;)

*****

6.5 mile Trooperstown imra hill race.

I had never run this course before, but had heard only good things about it. It around the Laragh area, one of the nicest in Wicklow, with some of my favourite runs, Glendalough, Ballybraid, and Glenmacnass for neighbours.

Myself and Slogger Jogger arrived early, and once registered, we scouted the starting kilometer of the route. Trooperstown Hill is a big hulking mass, which would be scaled via a long ascent via "Boots" mountain at its back. A strong field of about 150(?) or so were ready to take this on, and although several imra stalwarts were missing owing to tomorrows XC championships, several more had come along for their first imra race of the year. I met Krusty Clown before the start, and he told me his new tactic would be to start at the front of the pack, rather than being held back by the slower runners as had happened at his previous few imra races. It would prove be be a valuable move for him.

From the off, a slow ascent through the forest was borne steadily, nothing too dramatic about the incline. This is the part of the race where a lot of people lose themselves, and tend to go off too quick. While that can be a good tactic during a narrow start, today I was able to start reeling in runners from about a kilometer or so. Not too far ahead I could see Slogger Jogger, and from a cursory glance around I was surprised at the company I was keeping: during last years races these were people I couldn't get anywhere near, now my heavy recent training was allowing me to surge ahead of them. The ascent over soft mountain trail continued, and it was a matter of "steady as she goes". My legs were starting to feel to effects of a lot of milage this week, but keeping one foot motoring in front of the other was the way to go. Another day, I might have tried to cover SJ as he pulled away from me, picking off runner after runner, but for today I was happy with where I was in the field. Besides, something had to be kept in reserve for the later climbs...

It was around this time I was contenting myself with my position, that I became aware of some laboured breathing over my shoulder. As he drew alongside, I saw it was Krusty, who was having a great race. "When does the downhill begin?" he asked, and I wasn't sure if he was joking or not. Certainly by this stage a good downhill would be welcomed, but there was still a lot of climbing to go yet. From this moment in the race until the finish, myself and Krusty traded places, each waiting for the other to break. I don't mind telling you, during our duel I thought how I would have to post in my log that Krusty had beaten me, or tell of how he broke me, and it was this thought that made me dig deep on those uphills. However, no matter if I put on a spurt, he was soon right on my shoulder again. After we went over the first ascent of Boots mountain, I tried to shake him off by doing a fast descent, but by the time of the second climb to the summit of Trooperstown Hill, he was with me again. I figured that I'd be able to shake him off on the descent, as I was pretty experienced on descents...

And so I took off, down the mountain for home. With each step I thought the breathing behind me would go silent, but it stayed with me, as he matched my downhill stride for stride. There's a very steep descent on part of this course, which I had intended "sliding" down in a controlled manner, but I could only manage this for part of it, before the competition forced a proper fast descent. Hitting the trail again, we were still at the same pace, and as we hit the final downhills through the forest, with a kilometer to go, I tried to give it all I had. I reached a stage where I figured "that's it, I can't go faster", but by the skin of my teeth held him off till the finish.

Krusty, you gave me a great race, you had a brilliant run, I'm sure (results not up as I post) that's your best imra result yet, very well done. SJ had another superb run, finishing 12th amongst very strong runners. I beat for the first time a lot of runners I hold in high esteem, so very pleased with the day. Doubt Boards AC did as well this time as two weeks ago, but we are moving up the rankings, and are a genuine team now, even when missing some of our stronger runners.

Onwards and Upwards.

ecoli

Hope things are going well in training

I dunno how many of you are racing in the park this week but i will have an alternative session for that day to replace the 10 miler for those of you who arent. I want this to be a bit of a down week anyway even if you arent racing to let the body recover a bit from the consecutive heavy training

Race Week|
Monday|Rest
Tuesday|2 miles w/u 3/2/1* 2 mile cooldown
Wednesday|8 Miles (easy)
Thursday|rest
Friday|4 miles recovery
Saturday|10 mile race
Sunday|8 miles easy

Non Race Week|
Monday|Rest
Tuesday|2 miles w/u 3/2/1* 2 mile cooldown
Wednesday|8 Miles (easy)
Thursday|rest
Friday|4 miles recovery
Saturday|1 mile warm up 10x1 mile (PMP) w/ 30 sec recovery 1 mile cool down
Sunday|8 miles easy

* 3 miles easy, 2 miles Marathon Pace 1 mile Half Marathon pace

Any questions just ask

ELFOYZER

Hey there, back from hols but as predicted did not get anywhere like the running I wanted to.
Discovered the beauty that is trail running in Portumna Forest Park, really something. Found the trail running a bit more effort than road - anyone else feel this? (could have been food, gargle and good times though!)

Anyway, for what its worth - here is my last two week summary;

Mon2nd - REST
Tue3rd - 2M w/u; 6x1k(90sec rest) 2M c/d
Wed4th - 11M easy
Thur5th - 2M w/u; 4x 2+1min track intervals(60sec rec); 4mile easy
Fri6th - 4M easy (forest trail)
Sat7th- REST
Sun8th - 5M easy (Forest trail)
Mon9th - HUNGOVER
Tues10th - 6M easy, 4M MP ( Forest trail - again!)
Wed, Thur, Fri and Sat - REST (Family time:))
Sunday - 12.5M easy

Feel I haven't lost anything, but I probably haven't gained anything either!
I haven't put on any extra poundage either - bonus!

So taper (?) week ahead with Frank Duffy on Saturday.
Anyone want to predict their race times now? Go on - I dare ya.

I'm a bit off pace but am hoping to land in 68:00, but I'd take sub 70. Last time I ran Frank Duffy was my first year of return to sport in 2007
my time = 1:24:42:eek:
my motivation = certain pb, no matter what!

ELFOYZER

Week 8 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|2||359
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|||148.5|


Not sure how accurate this table is for all, my garmin tells me 359.2 miles.

kaymin

Week 8 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|4|36|368
ELFOYZER|3.29|2||359
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|||148.5|



Summary for the week:
Probably my worst weeks training so far...excuses are set out below!:

Monday Rest

Tuesday 4 miles (easy), 5x2 min hills+ cool down
Elevation for each effort was 62 feet, average pace for each was 5:45, 5:44, 5:45, 5:37, 5:26

Wednesday 12 miles easy - average 7 mins per mile

Thursday - spent the day laying patio / path and didn't have time to train. Legs were wasted from all the crouching / lifting.

Friday 4 miles (easy), 3x1 mile (10 k pace) 3 min recovery, 1mile cool down

Average pace per mile interval was 5:47, 5:50, 5:53. Felt wrecked for this session - legs still not recovered from all the work I've been doing out the back garden over the last few days.

Saturday Did a kayak session - 8 x 6 minute efforts. Was out the back - no strength in my arms.

Sunday

Meant to do 8 miles easy + 9 miles MP but I didn't feel great so left it at 8'5 miles easy - 7:13 average per mile. Suffered a bit of food poisoning Saturday night and legs still feeling heavy. Intend doing the 17 mile tempo session tomorrow evening instead.



Target time for Frank Duffy is sub 61 minutes. This weeks training doesn't inspire much confidence but hopefully things will come right over the coming week.

ecoli

Okay people roll call for the weekend

Name|Current PB|Target Time|
|||

Best of luck with the race to all who did it

Bloody Nipples

Week 8 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|6|57|284
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|2||359
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|5|49|236|


I'm not doing this ten miler lark! I'm a purist. 26 or bust!!

donothoponpop

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Found the trail running a bit more effort than road - anyone else feel this?

Certainly harder- I do a lot of my running on trails, and notice pace times versus effort are very different when running road. All the twisting, turning, ups and down of the terrain, has to slow your camber! There's no better surface to run though, glad you enjoyed it.

Week 8 summary
Name|Previous best |No. of Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Total Mileage to date |
donothoponpop|3:10|5|48|332
smmoore79| 3.10||| 143
Speedy44|3:26| | | 214|
kaymin|n/a|||135
ELFOYZER|3.29|2||359
cunavalos|n/a|||120
Schnellimbiss |n/a|||approx 125|
Bloody Nipples|3.15|5|49|236|


Missed the uphills part of Tuesdays session, but otherwise a good week. Stomach troubles throughout the week have hopefully passed. I'm noticing pace is starting to come down now. Had a very good 19+ mile LSR on Sat, took some confidence from how strong I felt during the PMP miles.

ecoli

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Name|Current PB|Target Time|
Elfoyzer|84:42(2007)|68:00


Story coach, you not going to be around for moral support? Few inspirational words of wisdom?

I am afraid i am not around this weekend down in Kilkenny with OH commitments however for those of you doing the Half i will be more than there for moral support i will be on the course with ya s egging you on because i pacing the 1.30 band so hoping to make up for my absence on Sat

ELFOYZER

Name|Current PB|Target Time|
elfoyzer|84:42|68:00|

ecoli wrote: »

Best of luck with the race to all who did it

Story coach, you not going to be around for moral support? Few inspirational words of wisdom?

ELFOYZER

ecoli wrote: »

I am afraid i am not around this weekend down in Kilkenny with OH commitments however for those of you doing the Half i will be more than there for moral support i will be on the course with ya s egging you on because i pacing the 1.30 band so hoping to make up for my absence on Sat

Fair enough so, but during the half make sure you give me a kick in the arse around mile 12 so I can break 1:30:D

ecoli

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Fair enough so, but during the half make sure you give me a kick in the arse around mile 12 so I can break 1:30:D

Dont worry i will unleash the fury for anyone who dont push on from me in the last mile;)