Africa Day, Iveagh Gardens Dublin 16th May

Einhard

I think the problem lies in the fact that, whereas in the good ol' days, your typical bigot was proud of his racist outlook, and ready to proclaim it loudly, nowadays, they are a lot more reticent in the face of a more liberal and open society. They still cling to their outdated beliefs, but can't express them openly without fear of scorn or censure. And so they revert to code. Instead of chanting "**** out" or some such unambiguous statement, they dress up their intolerance with subtle digs at the state funding of ethnic groups and events, the removal of Christian icons from public buildings etc. Unfortunately, it's sometimes difficult to discern when such a statement is made free from racist undertones, and when they are implicit. And this is exacerbated when one of the first posts on a thread expresses the view that Africans should go home. It leads to a situation where the real racists hide amongst those with genuine concern, and both can get tarred with the same brush. It's unfortunate as I said, but sometimes unavoidable.

theboxer

segaBOY wrote: »

I actually found the post you are referring to extremely insulting as a White European. I'm Irish, all of my ancestors are Irish, we didn't go to Africa at any stage, we played no part in their colonisation or exploitation of their people or what have you.

To blame an Irishman for slavery is preposterous. Especially when you consider the "red legs" in Barbados and all the "indentured servants" brought over to work in new world countries.

starbelgrade

theboxer wrote: »

To blame an Irishman for slavery is preposterous. Especially when you consider the "red legs" in Barbados and all the "indentured servants" brought over to work in new world countries.

Funnily enough, seeing as he was mentioned in this thread, St.Patrick was captured by Irish raiders from Britain when he was 16 & brought back to Ireland to work as a slave.

theboxer

starbelgrade wrote: »

Funnily enough, seeing as he was mentioned in this thread, St.Patrick was captured by Irish raiders from Britain when he was 16 & brought back to Ireland to work as a slave.

And we have been paying the price for it ever since. I was referring to the african slave trade.

Scan Man

Can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. People actually think this crap is a "good" thing? :eek: Oh well, this countries been well and truly ****ed for long before this travesty was conceived.

Einhard

Scan Man wrote: »

Can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. People actually think this crap is a "good" thing? :eek: Oh well, this countries been well and truly ****ed for long before this travesty was conceived.

What crap exactly? Celebrating diversity? Enjoying some ethnic food? Meeting people of different nationalities and cultures? Or the intermingling of people with different skin tone?

segaBOY

Einhard wrote: »

I think the problem lies in the fact that, whereas in the good ol' days, your typical bigot was proud of his racist outlook, and ready to proclaim it loudly, nowadays, they are a lot more reticent in the face of a more liberal and open society. They still cling to their outdated beliefs, but can't express them openly without fear of scorn or censure. And so they revert to code. Instead of chanting "**** out" or some such unambiguous statement, they dress up their intolerance with subtle digs at the state funding of ethnic groups and events, the removal of Christian icons from public buildings etc. Unfortunately, it's sometimes difficult to discern when such a statement is made free from racist undertones, and when they are implicit. And this is exacerbated when one of the first posts on a thread expresses the view that Africans should go home. It leads to a situation where the real racists hide amongst those with genuine concern, and both can get tarred with the same brush. It's unfortunate as I said, but sometimes unavoidable.

Tbh I think it's more of a situation where people with genuine concern are railroaded with the "racist" label because they disagree with someone else's viewpoint. It's an easy way out to try and win an arguement. Noone who is not a racist wants to be called a racist (because it is a disgusting term) and when that label is thrown at them they tend to back down incase people begin to believe it.

It just shows the people incorrectly using this term up for what they are, narrow minded and intolerant of other people's views.

The real racists just damage their own arguements by shouting outlandish comments which result in them getting a well deserved ban. They are a disgrace to themselves and their country.

Pineapple stu

Whats the big deal ? paddys day is celebrated all over the world so why is there an issue with an African day here? Maybe it will become a public holiday some time .
Ireland makes me laugh, some of you want illegal immigrants to be deported and at the same time you want the irish illegals in America and Australia to be granted the right to stay there .

Placid_Casual

Scan Man wrote: »

Can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. People actually think this crap is a "good" thing? :eek: Oh well, this countries been well and truly ****ed for long before this travesty was conceived.

Yes, you're right. The estimated net cost of €25bn to bail out Anglo Irish Bank might have more to do with the country being ****ed, as you eloquently put it, than a relatively extremely modest sum being spent to support a (by all accounts very successful) celebration of this country's ethnic diversity.

I should point out that, for the record, I personally don't think the country's ****ed. Peaks and troughs and all that.

Kivaro

segaBOY wrote: »

Tbh I think it's more of a situation where people with genuine concern are railroaded with the "racist" label because they disagree with someone else's viewpoint. It's an easy way out to try and win an arguement. Noone who is not a racist wants to be called a racist (because it is a disgusting term) and when that label is thrown at them they tend to back down incase people begin to believe it.

It just shows the people incorrectly using this term up for what they are, narrow minded and intolerant of other people's views.

The real racists just damage their own arguements by shouting outlandish comments which result in them getting a well deserved ban. They are a disgrace to themselves and their country.

This should be a sticky.

segaBOY

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Whats the big deal ? paddys day is celebrated all over the world so why is there an issue with an African day here? Maybe it will become a public holiday some time .
Ireland makes me laugh, some of you want illegal immigrants to be deported and at the same time you want the irish illegals in America and Australia to be granted the right to stay there .

For me, it's Irish Aid using their funds to finance a festival instead of spending their money in the countries that really need it, particularly considering they have taken a large budget cut recently (which I think is wrong).

Furthermore, I agree that illegals should be deported according to the law (completely seperate issue you brought up) and at the same time I believe Irish illegals should also be deported. They broke immigration law and should be subject to it like everyone else.

theboxer

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Ireland makes me laugh, some of you want illegal immigrants to be deported and at the same time you want the irish illegals in America and Australia to be granted the right to stay there .

There are circa 50,000 illegals in America. Deport them, they are abusing the yanks hospitality. As for the illegals in Oz, dont worry the Australians are deporting them very rapidly. Over a 100 have gotten the heave ho since the year began.

Nice strawman, though.

Where the lads from the GNIB in attendance?

Pineapple stu

Jay D wrote: »

went along to this late ish, we got there around half four and the queue to get in, ended up just going to see the ducks instead in Stephen's green.

Where they African ducks ?

Pineapple stu

theboxer wrote: »

There are circa 50,000 illegals in America. Deport them, they are abusing the yanks hospitality. As for the illegals in Oz, dont worry the Australians are deporting them very rapidly. Over a 100 have gotten the heave ho since the year began.

Nice strawman, though.

Great.

OPENROAD

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Whats the big deal ? paddys day is celebrated all over the world so why is there an issue with an African day here? Maybe it will become a public holiday some time .
Ireland makes me laugh, some of you want illegal immigrants to be deported and at the same time you want the irish illegals in America and Australia to be granted the right to stay there .

I think we prefer the term undocumented Irish

theboxer

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Great.

Agbonlahor.

Yeah, it was a pity he got deported with his family. One of the more genuine cases.

Pineapple stu

Thats a mad random post

theboxer

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Thats a mad random post

Just as random as yours.

What have illegal paddys in America got to do with the discussion?

Millicent

theboxer wrote: »

But not a whimper out of you when this was posted(Nodin thanked it).



Substitute white with black, european with african and you would have been up in arms. As I said yesterday, its double standards.

So you're surmising that I agreed with that post because I didn't thank it and someone else did? What?! By what stretch does that make sense to you? And why is someone else thanking a post that points out that someone else made a post and someone else thanked it and somehow I'm complicit in this? Jesus, typing that made my brain hurt. :mad: Did it occur to you that maybe I skimmed that post or didn't read it?

What has that got to do with me posting that it is horrible when people are wrongly branded racist? Jesus man, it's called a concession. Decorum dictates that you at least acknowledge that someone is saying they see your point and not that you try to attack them.

Degsy

You know what..its a measure of how unracist ireland is that to be called a racist is actually one of the greatest insults imaginable.

Think about it.

starbelgrade

Degsy wrote: »

You know what..its a measure of how unracist ireland is that to be called a racist is actually one of the greatest insults imaginable.

Unless you're a taxi driver from Dublin, where being a racist is a pre-requisite for getting a taxi plate.

segaBOY

starbelgrade wrote: »

Unless you're a taxi driver from Dublin, where being a racist is a pre-requisite for getting a taxi plate.

Jaysus, I remember one particular journey where I thought I met Hitler himself. But that's another story.

Degsy

segaBOY wrote: »

Jaysus, I remember one particular journey where I thought I met Hitler himself. But that's another story.

I doubt that..the jews tend not to be a topic of discussion amongst racist taxi drivers these days..they've long been supplanted by other folk.

segaBOY

Degsy wrote: »

I doubt that..the jews tend not to be a topic of discussion amongst racist taxi drivers these days..they've long been supplanted by other folk.

"There's just something I don't trust about them, they've been hated by so many people in the past"

Yup, he brought it up, I wanted to get the f**k outta that car so bloody fast.

billy the squid

Scan Man wrote: »

Can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. People actually think this crap is a "good" thing? :eek: Oh well, this countries been well and truly ****ed for long before this travesty was conceived.

why is it a bad thing?

Degsy

billy the squid wrote: »

why is it a bad thing?

Ask Bono.

theboxer

billy the squid wrote: »

why is it a bad thing?

Why is it a good thing?

Degsy

theboxer wrote: »

Why is it a good thing?

Ask Bono

Nodin

theboxer wrote: »

Substitute white with black, european with african and you would have been up in arms. As I said yesterday, its double standards.

As its patently ridiculous and could not in any way be taken seriously, no, it's not.

segaboy wrote:

I actually found the post you are referring to extremely insulting as a White European. I'm Irish, all of my ancestors are Irish, we didn't go to Africa at any stage, we played no part in their colonisation or exploitation of their people or what have you. .

As individuals/collaborators with the British Empire, yes, many Irish did. We even had the Brit ambassador here, honouring some Irishman (a VC winner) for his part in putting down an Indian mutiny a year or two ago.
Likewise you have Africans, Arabs and others collaborating in the oppression of their own and other peoples. It's part of the perversity of colonialism.

It's odd - you arrived in this thread claiming offence about something that hadn't happened and now seem to be hanging around to find it. I suppose it may well turn up yet.

segaboy wrote:

Tbh I think it's more of a situation where people with genuine concern are railroaded with the "racist" label because they disagree with someone else's viewpoint. .

...yet that hasn't happened here.

Are you saying this post isn't racist?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65907849&postcount=12

segaboy wrote:

For me, it's Irish Aid using their funds .

...some of their funds. There seems to be a good deal of private sponsorship involved, as shown earlier.

Fratton Fred

theboxer wrote: »

To blame an Irishman for slavery is preposterous. Especially when you consider the "red legs" in Barbados and all the "indentured servants" brought over to work in new world countries.

You might want to check out why they celebrate St Patrick's day in Martinique.

The slaves chose that day to have their uprising, because they knew that all their Irish slave masters would be rolling around drunk. The uprising failed, but it is still commemorated.