M1 New Section of D3 (three lanes) at Swords

sk8board

god but this lane merge is starting to annoy me every evening.

the latest side-effect is under-taking at the point of the merge ... the inside lane clears up with cars turning off at swords, and the cars in the middle lane and outside lanes merge, leaving the inside lane realtively clear for a few hundred yards

celticbest

sk8board wrote: »

god but this lane merge is starting to annoy me every evening.

the latest side-effect is under-taking at the point of the merge ... the inside lane clears up with cars turning off at swords, and the cars in the middle lane and outside lanes merge, leaving the inside lane realtively clear for a few hundred yards

So should people who drive the motorway correctly ie. stay in the left lane unless overtaking move out just because others do not drive correctly ??



You are allowed to undertake if traffic lanes to your right are moving slowly but traffic in the left lane is going quicker then the right lane. I think this is the case around the merge most evenings I've driven it.

Irish and Proud

I drove the M50 (from Ballymun) and M1 NB yesterday, I saw no sign (no pun intended ) of any gantries along the new D3 section yet. That said, having only recently obtained my full driving license and only took to motorway driving in the last week, I'm loving it - the motorways are brill! Good sightlines, good alignment, good surfaces (well in dry weather anyway), nice long slips etc! Especially liked that bit of the M50 and the M1 towards the Airport - it feels so American with the mulitple lanes and the large inter-motorway-change at Turnapin (though small by US standards)! Look forward to the M1 D3 section being extended to Lissenhall (J4).

(Motor)way to go!

celticbest

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Excuse the pun, but did anyone see any sign of the gantries that are supposed to be included in the scheme? - I for one can't see any evidence of them from the DCC traffic cams. However, I can see that the hard shoulders are still closed off, so they might be awaiting the arrival of the gantries.

In any case, I might get to drive the road NB on Monday and see for myself.

celticbest wrote: »

The gantries which are currently in place around the Airport have not been updated yet either, it still says two lanes to the Airport and two lanes NB instead of three NB......

Noticed this morning that some Pillars have been erected in the centre median between Junctions 2 & 3 for the new Gantries, wonder when they are going to be installed ?

Still no sign of them updating the old Gantries between the M50 & Junction 2 the Airport going NB.....

Carawaystick

Irish and Proud wrote: »

nice long slips etc!

You might want to try merging from the M1E to the M1N or M1S before you praise the nice long slips.

Irish and Proud

Carawaystick wrote: »

You might want to try merging from the M1E to the M1N or M1S before you praise the nice long slips.

I've done the M1E to M1N alright and the merge lane is a short taper, but I found that the length of the slip plus the length of the chevron taper allowed a bit of time to adjust speed and distance in relation to other traffic on the mainline. That said, I've only done this slip once (and it was reduced to 1 lane) and I do tend to avoid motorways during the rush hour. I've seen similar tiger tail (double stream) merges in the UK and again, the merge lanes tend to be quite short. The M50E to M1N is also a tiger tail, but unusually the two slips each result in a lane gain thereby causing the mainline to go from 2 lanes to 3 and then 4. However, I do think that auxiliary lanes between Jcts 2 and 3 on the M1 should have been included in the current widening scheme.

Regards!

Irish and Proud

I've got a nice surprise for you folks....

Notice:
M1 Jct 3 to Jct 4
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Roads/SchemesonDisplay/Proposed3rdLane-DrinanLissenhall/Final%20Advert.pdf
(PDF File)

Map:
M1 Jct 3 to Jct 4
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Roads/SchemesonDisplay/Proposed3rdLane-DrinanLissenhall/Part%208%20Map%20Drinan%20Interchange.pdf
(PDF File)

I had difficulty in opening the PDFs, so if you have similar problems, try right clicking and saving as.

Enjoy!

Bluetonic

Looks good, though Lissenhall should be upgraded to free flow either partially or full.

Swords to M1 North does not even look free flow in the above layouts, pity.

Skerries to M1 South would need to be free flow too (overpass needed, or redirect Donabate road).

celticbest

Bluetonic wrote: »

Looks good, though Lissenhall should be upgraded to free flow either partially or full.

Swords to M1 North does not even look free flow in the above layouts, pity.

Skerries to M1 South would need to be free flow too (overpass needed, or redirect Donabate road).

Looks like a bit of a mad configuration alright.....

However the M1NB to R132(Old N1) towards Swords looks Freeflow so I sure they could easlty make the R132(Old N1)from Swords to the M1NB Freeflow.

celticbest

This will save you having to open the PDF,

oharach

celticbest wrote: »

Looks like a bit of a mad configuration alright.....

However the M1NB to R132(Old N1) towards Swords looks Freeflow so I sure they could easlty make the R132(Old N1)from Swords to the M1NB Freeflow.

That looks pretty bizarre. Wouldn't a single signalised roundabout configuration with two motorway bridges have done the same thing? I never did understand the fixation with dumbbells on junctions that would clearly be heavily frequented.

munchkin_utd

celticbest wrote: »

This will save you having to open the PDF,<sniped junction picture as its biiiig>

I like it.
BUT. Wheres the roundabouts?

Seriously though.
The use of >2 lanes before the junction, to allow as many cars as possible to "stack" up, and then get "flushed" through on the green light is refreshing to see.

It interesting to compare how a junction of 2 dual carraigeways is dealt with traditionally in Ireland and the continent.

Irish solution.
2 lanes into a 2 lane roundabout, inevitably with signals strapped on to "cope" with the traffic.
The traffic queues 2 abreast so 100 cars approaching on red is a queue 50 deep!! On a green light of 30 seconds at rate of a row passing the green light every 2 seconds, thats 15 rows of cars so a mere 30 cars total through the green phase.

Continental solution.
Up to 6 "stacking" lanes just before the junction, 2 left, 2 straight on, 2 right.
Say theres 100 cars which approach the junction on red, and stack up waiting. On the subsequent green, over 30 seconds at a row of stacked traffic every 2 seconds, thats 15 rows of SIX cars, so 90 cars through the junction.

On the continent theres 10 cars who dont make it through, in Ireland 60 cars are still waiting!!! Some difference!

Anyhow, the point is, the public, and in the past road designers, have had an aversion to plain junctions with traffic lights in favour of roundabouts.
Hopefully this junction is a sign that roundabout-itis is fading.

Irish and Proud

The new Lissenhall Junction layout is very interesting - my only real misgiving is the omission of a freeflow slip from the R132N to M1N (someone else has already pointed this out on the thread). To me, there are two big advantages to providing such a sliproad:

1) Would help clear any traffic queues on the R132N approaching the junction;

2) Would separate 2 major traffic flows during the evening rush - M1N to R132N and R132N to M1N.

Another observation is that in recent experience (early 2010), a lot of the traffic backup on the R132S during morning rush is due to congestion at the Estuary Roundabout in Swords. I wonder if Fingal Co Co has any plans for same - I found that the old Swords Bypass thereafter was pretty smooth flowing. I'm sure the situation is pretty much the same in 2011.

I might make a submission (about the omitted slip) to Fingal Co Co in relation to the scheme.

Regards!

spacetweek

munchkin_utd wrote: »

The use of >2 lanes before the junction, to allow as many cars as possible to "stack" up, and then get "flushed" through on the green light is refreshing to see.

Seriously, you've never seen this before in Ireland?
The Irish solution you say below is only ever used in low traffic scenarios where it is safer and has a higher traffic throughput than lights. I can think of loads of times in west Dublin where I live where a roundabout has been upgraded to a signalised junction due to rising volumes over the years.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Continental solution.
Up to 6 "stacking" lanes just before the junction, 2 left, 2 straight on, 2 right.
Say theres 100 cars which approach the junction on red, and stack up waiting. On the subsequent green, over 30 seconds at a row of stacked traffic every 2 seconds, thats 15 rows of SIX cars, so 90 cars through the

There wouldn't be the same volume making a turning movement as going straight on, so that figure is wrong.

spacetweek

There is a separate plan pass a bus lane through this junction: "North Swords QBC". Wonder if it'll have to redesigned now.

sk8board

celticbest wrote: »

So should people who drive the motorway correctly ie. stay in the left lane unless overtaking move out just because others do not drive correctly ??

i think you mis-understood me; I was referring to guys racing down the inside lane 1 where they know theres more chance it will be clear.

When lanes 2 and 3 merge the speed slows to 60-80km for about half a mile until the traffic smoothes out and guys in Lane 2 get a chance to move over once they are finished being undertaken at speed

celticbest

sk8board wrote: »

i think you mis-understood me; I was referring to guys racing down the inside lane 1 where they know theres more chance it will be clear.

When lanes 2 and 3 merge the speed slows to 60-80km for about half a mile until the traffic smoothes out and guys in Lane 2 get a chance to move over once they are finished being undertaken at speed

If people drove the lanes correctly there would not be any opportunity for anyone to race down lane 1.

If the people who love hogging lanes 2 & 3 get snarled up because of there inability to obey the ROTR and someone drives down Lane 1 freely, it is not there fault, once they also obey the ROTR.

I personally stick to lane 1 around the merge as if is by far the safest lane to be in, I have seen a number of close calls over the last few weeks at the merge as people seem to speed up for the sake of getting one car ahead......

Irish and Proud

spacetweek wrote: »

There is a separate plan pass a bus lane through this junction: "North Swords QBC". Wonder if it'll have to redesigned now.

I'd say they'll probably have the bus lane taper into the dedidcated lane for the M1/Donabate, while the buses would have to move to lane 2 (M1 and R132S) which in turn would taper back into a bus lane along the R132S after the junction. Maybe a bus gate would have to be provided on the R132 Northern approach given the heavy traffic during morning peak.

Regards!

Irish and Proud

Hi Folks,

I discovered a new PDF document on the Fingal Co Co website which shows the refined layout of the Lissenhall Interchange Upgrade plus the Mainline Layout from the tie-in at Drinan (just north of the Drinan overbridge). Also included are Elevations of 3 types of gantries, plus a typical Cross Section of the M1 after the works.

The basics of the Lissenhall layout remains the same - however, changes include the reduction of the M1N to R132S slip (signal controlled) plus the modification of the SB on-ramp to give a dedicated lane (on the ramp) from Donabate (through a tighter curve) to the M1 where it will merge after an initial lane gain. That leaves one dedicated lane (on-ramp) for the R132S/R132N to M1S traffic, but same will have the benefit of the said lane gain. I guess some of the changes were made in order to avoid the awkward process of land acquisition. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK there's no CPO involved and it's a Part 8 scheme which I think involves public consultation and liason with the other council departments.

Another interesting thing is the cross section for the M1:

2 x 3.0m Hard Shoulders
6 x 3.5m Running Lanes
2 x 1.0m Median Strips
2 x 0.54m Concrete Barriers
Total Pavements: 2 x 14.5m

Wonder if the speed limit will be reduced to 100kph - would it feel rather tight driving in a centre lane (lane 2) of just 3.5m at 120kph? Another interesting thing is the Type A Gantry which has no directional signs, just slots for electronic traffic control signs - think I might have seen one or two of these on the M50.

Here's the link:
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Roads/SchemesonDisplay/Proposed3rdLane-DrinanLissenhall/Drawings%20for%20Website%20and%20Display%20Stand.pdf

Enjoy!

The Armchair Expert

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I discovered a new PDF document on the Fingal Co Co website which shows the refined layout of the Lissenhall Interchange Upgrade plus the Mainline Layout from the tie-in at Drinan (just north of the Drinan overbridge). Also included are Elevations of 3 types of gantries, plus a typical Cross Section of the M1 after the works.

The basics of the Lissenhall layout remains the same - however, changes include the reduction of the M1N to R132S slip (signal controlled) plus the modification of the SB on-ramp to give a dedicated lane (on the ramp) from Donabate (through a tighter curve) to the M1 where it will merge after an initial lane gain. That leaves one dedicated lane (on-ramp) for the R132S/R132N to M1S traffic, but same will have the benefit of the said lane gain. I guess some of the changes were made in order to avoid the awkward process of land acquisition. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK there's no CPO involved and it's a Part 8 scheme which I think involves public consultation and liason with the other council departments.

Another interesting thing is the cross section for the M1:

2 x 3.0m Hard Shoulders
6 x 3.5m Running Lanes
2 x 1.0m Median Strips
2 x 0.54m Concrete Barriers
Total Pavements: 2 x 14.5m

Wonder if the speed limit will be reduced to 100kph - would it feel rather tight driving in a centre lane (lane 2) of just 3.5m at 120kph? Another interesting thing is the Type A Gantry which has no directional signs, just slots for electronic traffic control signs - think I might have seen one or two of these on the M50.

Here's the link:
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Roads/SchemesonDisplay/Proposed3rdLane-DrinanLissenhall/Drawings%20for%20Website%20and%20Display%20Stand.pdf

Enjoy!

Does this scheme perhaps merit its own thread?

celticbest

The Armchair Expert wrote: »

Does this scheme perhaps merit its own thread?

IMO No.

It's just a continuation of the current updgrade and as the title of this thread suggests 'Short Section of D3 (three lanes) for M1' ,the overall finished upgrade will be a short section of D3 compared to the full length of the M1.

Bluetonic

All the road works are now complete/cones etc.., gone northbound and looks like we're stuck with the current layout until the next section goes ahead.

Hopefully not too long, 10 years tops I would say

Jayuu

Used it for the first time yesterday. The merge is well signposted so nobody could miss the fact that its about to happen. However I am also not crazy on the right-side merge because I feel it encourages the outside lane hoggers.

As I was driving along in the middle lane in a steady stream of traffic there was a car just ahead of me in the outside lane. As we came to the merge area I slowed to allow it plenty of room to merge in ahead of me but the guy ignored me and then sped up in the outside lane to get past a few more cars. At the very last possible moment he forced his way into the middle lane causing around five cars (including myself) to have to break suddenly to accommodate him.

I imagine this happens all the time with people staying in the right lane until they are literally forced across into the middle.

L1011

Bluetonic wrote: »

All the road works are now complete/cones etc.., gone northbound and looks like we're stuck with the current layout until the next section goes ahead.

Hopefully not too long, 10 years tops I would say

Because its FCC going it in bits and not an NRA scheme, 2-3 years is more likely.

dcr22B

Jayuu wrote: »

I imagine this happens all the time with people staying in the right lane until they are literally forced across into the middle.

I just stay in the inside lane and take my chances with the suicide jockeys taking their chances for the Drynam exit.

celticbest

MYOB wrote: »

Because its FCC going it in bits and not an NRA scheme, 2-3 years is more likely.

This is an NRA project, as per post #313, they hope to commence work on the additional third lane this year.....

Absurdum

The overhead signs on the M1 NB have now been amended to show three lanes for M1/left lane for the airport.

sdanseo

Re the Lissenhall interchange, I think personally that two standard signalled junctions would work best as a second alternative to full freeflow (which is almost impossible/extremely unlikely at that location).

My only additions would be (space allowing) an additional lane on the bridge (totalling 7 which may be impossible) to facilitate a right turn from R132N->R126E, and a freeflow ramp to facilitate non-stop transit under the R126 for the R132S->M1S movement.

Failing the space requirement for 7 lanes on the bridge (they would likely be too narrow even when removing all median) then one of the straight on lanes (e.g. R132S->R132S/R132N->R132N would be dropped. My suggestion would be to drop one from R132N->R132N in this case.

See below for my own pain sketch (and I mean sketch lol):

csd

I've uploaded some pics of the widened section to SSC (very short!) and a shot of one of the new gantries further north. See here.

/csd

spacetweek

celticbest wrote: »

This is an NRA project, as per post #313, they hope to commence work on the additional third lane this year.....

Would there be a legal impediment to Fingal going ahead out of their own budget in the absence of NRA funding?