Trouble's brewing for Spy

jimi_t2

xcvc wrote: »

ok, i never said the general club student scene is androgynous. sorry but i just didnt.

...

thats true. but the gay community takes up quite a lot of the dublin nightlife these days so in turn, it's all getting a bit androgynous.

and for one, you just saying that they all seem a tad androgynous is showing in itself. i'm not talking about the gay community in general...

and i'm not talking about gay clubs per se. just about the general student club night scene that seems to denote an awful lot of the night clubs.

So you can see the inference here?

oringinally all i wanted to prove was that not EVERYONE who goes to the pod and spy are 'scenesters' as they're being labelled. you can't argue that.

Yeah but 98% of them in attendance dress as such and act as such, so the point is fairly bloody moot.

If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck...

xcvc

eh yeah, 'it's all getting a bit androgynous' as in the style amongst these people in general, not the night life.

and if you're going to be picky so will i, 98percent???? where'd you whip up that statistic? you obviously go or have gone. unless you haven't and you're basing your opinions on photos. which is ridiculous.

so you and your friends i assume are the ONLY down to earth, nice, friendly people, dressed 'normally' (of course) in the place?

jimi_t2

xcvc wrote: »

eh yeah, 'it's all getting a bit androgynous' as in the style amongst these people in general, not the night life.

Who are ''these people''?

Seriously man, and I'm not even being pedantic, but you're not doing yourself any favours in terms of trying to follow your argument.

and if you're going to be picky so will i, 98percent???? where'd you whip up that statistic?

Anecdotal evidence. When I've been there it seems that about 1 in 50 people isn't making a conscious effort to dress in the scene style. But yeah, you're right, you are just being picky.

so you and your friends i assume are the ONLY down to earth, nice, friendly people

I really don't think that WAR is the place to be going to find down to earth people in fairness. Nothing wrong with that or anything, but it goes with the territory.

As for the nice friendly people? The majority of them seem to be there to be scene and spend most of their time pouting for photos and elbowing you out of the way to air kiss the most ridiculously dressed people in the room. This is the experience of nearly everyone I know who went in for a look to see what all the fuss was about.

In fact, my sister and her group of friends frequented the place a bit. Now she'd describe herself as more ''indie'' than scene and thats fair enough, I give her relentless abuse for it But she ended up stopping going after she got two mobile phones in two weeks robbed out of her handbag, and ended up having a panic attack in the main room as the place was overfilled with no A/C and people were all elbows and knees.

you obviously go or have gone. unless you haven't and you're basing your opinions on photos. which is ridiculous.

Yep, I've gone two or three times across the last 18 months to check out the competition so to speak. I even met my ex-girlfriend there as we were both roped into going because of a 21st.

On top of that, two or three of the people shown in the vvip photos a few pages back I'd know through college and I'd view as talented enough DJs and producers if not simply friends. In fact, one of them plays with BWW who basically set up the fecking night.

I've been to nearly every night of repute in Dublin in an attempt to escape the grips of Harcourt St - I even DJ'd at another student electro night in the POD during the year and I'm playing the launch night of Dublin's new LGBT orientated radio station (89.9 OpenFM) in the Purty Kitchen in a few weeks.

On top of that, I also spent the last two years doing festival stage work and theatre work around the country in various venues and with a wide variety of people. Mostly voluntary I might add.

So no, you're not going to dismiss my argument out of hand based on bias. I'm about as tolerant a person as you're going to find, as are most of my friends. What I don't like is intolerance and elitism, which is one of the smaller problems I find with nights like WAR and C.U.N.T.

xcvc

well you're basically doing the same thing as you were giving out to me for doing now..just saying they're not down to earth because they're wearing a certain style of clothing? bit narrow minded of you to assume.

When it all comes down to it, it's not the clothing that bothers people, it's the mind numbing conversations that just consist of name dropping and trying to out cool each other. 'oh yeah i dj'd here, and on my blog etc etc'

(btw, i'm not saying anything to do with the fact that you said you dj'd or anything)

just seriously, don't comply this rule to everyone. it's a small enough 'scene' group that actually exists, they're just very obnoxious so manage to make it seem more.

and i'm not 'dissing' (couldn't think of a better word!) your sister, but her describing herself as 'indie'??? same thing as people being 'scene' or whatever. and if you didn't know your sister, maybe you'd be including her in this group of 'elite scenesters'. but you do. and you know she's not actually like that. see? round about way of trying to explain myself but how and ever....


and yeah. spy's **** for getting stuff stolen in. very true.

essentially, the dublin nightlife scene is a bit ****. and there's DEFINITELY room for improvement. especially in the techno side of things. there's a SERIOUS lack of that. so annoying. BUT. since they don't exist, yet, i'm going to have as much fun as i can with the place that are on offer.

jimi_t2

xcvc wrote: »

well you're basically doing the same thing as you were giving out to me for doing now..just saying they're not down to earth because they're wearing a certain style of clothing?

Nothing to do with the style of clothing, and you'll see that I didn't make reference to that. WAR is a club that attracts extroverts and, by proxy, arrogance and elitism. You want to find down to earth people, you generally go to a pub or an all-inclusive venue like TP where there's a mix-mash of different people, languages, musical tastes and cultures.

WAR/C.U.N.T. and their ilk tend to be mono-cultures and fairly exclusive by the very virtue of their operation and promotion. They make no bones about it, fair enough, but I find it indefensible when people try and make them out to be anything else.

When it all comes down to it, it's not the clothing that bothers people, it's the mind numbing conversations that just consist of name dropping and trying to out cool each other. 'oh yeah i dj'd here, and on my blog etc etc'

People go there to be seen as far as I can see, and to get arty photos of their perfectly mussed up hair up on some joke of a fashion-photography blog. Thats my main issue with the place and the people who go their, and while not *everyone* is like that, enough of the majority are to make me never want to go their again.

You'll find that most people on this forum, who *love* their clubbing and are mostly DJs and producers of ridiculously varied genres, would tend to agree with me. You come on here as a low post user with an obvious bias toward the place because your group goes there - but even you yourself can see the serious problems with it. TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Better yet, let the scenesters have their club, band together with some like minded people and get going with your own night - its not hard to do, nor is it terribly expensive; build it and they will come. If people had this attitude rather than the complacency about ''Ah but its the only place to go'' then nothing will change.

Easiest thing to do is get your friends hammered and pick out some reasonably accessible gig. Bring them to it, let them soak up the atmosphere and they'll get bitten by the electro/techno/house bug and realise how much better it is. They'll never look back.

By this process we've bumped our core group of friends who are clubbers from 4 to about 25 in the last 18 months. Even the people who *hate* the music, love the atmosphere and the mix of people compared. WAR is just Coppers for people in funny clothes, but with an even worse attitude because of the mono-culture it attracts.

and i'm not 'dissing' (couldn't think of a better word!) your sister, but her describing herself as 'indie'??? same thing as people being 'scene' or whatever. and if you didn't know your sister, maybe you'd be including her in this group of 'elite scenesters'. but you do. and you know she's not actually like that. see?

She's not even done the leaving cert - she just happens to look and act old for her age. And I give her relentless abuse for the fact that she describes herself as ''indie'; and I *do* include her in that group. But she's family and I'm guessing she'll grow out of it soon enough. I hope.

essentially, the dublin nightlife scene is a bit ****. and there's DEFINITELY room for improvement. especially in the techno side of things. there's a SERIOUS lack of that. so annoying. BUT. since they don't exist, yet, i'm going to have as much fun as i can with the place that are on offer.

In fairness, there is an adequate amount of stuff there. Its not great, but with a population of about a million in the greater Dublin area you'll never get 400 students into a club midweek at a dubstep night in the same way that somewhere like London or Berlin would. If you like anything bar chart you're seen as some sort of druggie or ''rocker'' at the opposite end of the spectrum. At the same time you've Pygmallion, POD, Le Cirque, Market Bar, Tripod, Twisted Peper, The Underground. Combine that with all the quirky little BYOB events up in Smithfield and the odd Gallery and exhibition space and you're flying.

They're off the radar because its for people who are their for the music and atmosphere. These are the kind of people who make the effort to find out about their stuff and go their with an open attitude, and similarly they are the best kind of crowd. No one wants TP or the like to turn into a ****ing fashion show like St.William Street had. All good music is to some extent underground, be it Hip-Hop, Rock, Trad or even Indie.

So yeah it's all there, but it takes a little more effort than just wandering off Grafton Street. Don't expect anyone to do it for you - just get going and people will fall in line.

billybigunz

There are loads of techno nights in the city. Pound for pound Dublin does quite well.

jimi_t2

billybigunz wrote: »

There are loads of techno nights in the city. Pound for pound Dublin does quite well.

My only issue with it is that the groups in some of the more off the wall places tend to go their to get mashed off their faces in a dark room and to get hit in the face with a wall of bass, with the music being a secondary thing. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it kinda makes the scene live up to the negative stereotypes.

Kennedy's in particular attracts some fair nutjobs, and the place always feels like its about to be raided for some reason.

billybigunz

Margaret Thatcher once said ' there is no such thing as the scene'
Why would people who go to techno nights care about negative stereotypes?

jtsuited

ah very clever billy with the apt thatcher statement. nice.

i don't feel too strongly about these scenester people because at the end of the day they're just people who were crap at sports as kids, and think people don't like them because they're so drastically different.

Reality is, people don't like them because they're arseholes.

Using the word 'scene' as an adjective. Now that pisses me right off.

jimi_t2

billybigunz wrote: »

Why would people who go to techno nights care about negative stereotypes?

Because it has already made it impossible to get an extended licence, throw an alcohol-free extended event, increases the cost of public liability insurance, makes Garda SI laugh at you when you apply for ''dancehall' licencing etc...

xcvc

this is funny. i think we're actually basically on the same page.

i actually have tried doing my own night with a friend, and it worked fairly well. on a break at the moment but should be starting up again somewhere else soon enough..

and yeah, gallery events, gigs etc are the best things to be going to dublin. i often go to various ones. twisted pepper is probably the best club really. but you wouldn't want to be going there ALL the time. i guess i just miss the berlin style nightlife every so often. dublin's small. you can't get stuff like that here. but i almost think that a big warehouse techno place COULD work.you'd just have to have a lot of faith and money. and as we all know, the people with money in dublin have little to no taste in ANYTHING.

so i actually have TRIED DIFFERENT THINGS as you have suggested so don't make me out to be what you seem to think i am. i haven't set my foot in war in like a year and hopefully won't again.

i guess weekend trips to berlin and london over the summer will just have to be a must. i'm not complaining

jimi_t2

xcvc wrote: »

i actually have tried doing my own night with a friend, and it worked fairly well. on a break at the moment but should be starting up again somewhere else soon enough..

Down in Le Cirque by any chance? If you're looking for people to DJ or whatever give us a shout and I'll have a gander. I know most of the people involved in the nights at the younger end of the spectrum at this stage as well so I'm guessing we have a lot of people in common.

Funnily enough (pun) I know the lads running the comedy night in TP fairly well as well through college, so I'm going to scope **** out over the summer and will try to do something interesting enough next year if I can at all.

but i almost think that a big warehouse techno place COULD work.you'd just have to have a lot of faith and money.

In fact it has before, the ''Extras'' party where the tickets were sold in the Bernard Shaw and the venue wasn't known in advance. Similarly the yoke down on the quays a couple months back.

Problem is, you're pretty much gambling your entire system and lighting because the guards have the power to take the ****ing lot off you if they have any suspicion that you don't have the appropriate licence, and the onus is on you to get it back. Guilty until proven innocent.

so i actually have TRIED DIFFERENT THINGS as you have suggested so don't make me out to be what you seem to think i am. i haven't set my foot in war in like a year and hopefully won't again.

Good and great

i guess weekend trips to berlin and london over the summer will just have to be a must. i'm not complaining

Already been over for Nero last week and most of my friends seem to be moving there so it's onto the Ryanair website every couple of days with me for the summer.

electrogrimey

The surprising thing is that I'm sure 90% of DJs and promoters, as this thread shows, will agree that the nightclub scene in Dublin isn't the best, and complain about it, but there are so few people actually doing anything fresh. There's a few young guys trying to run all these 'raves', but they all end up being a load of teenagers listening to the Bloody Beetroots on legal drugs. Which isn't very fresh.

Have any of the people on here who are always complaining about the scene actually started anything different?

I admit I'm not exactly revitalizing the scene, as the night I run is just a normal night, but at least with an emphasis on good house music, but I'd like to be involved with something a bit different - and I don't just mean trying to find a way of getting around laws.

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

I admit I'm not exactly revitalizing the scene, as the night I run is just a normal night, but at least with an emphasis on good house music, but I'd like to be involved with something a bit different - and I don't just mean trying to find a way of getting around laws.

Remind me what night you're running brother? I was planning to go to that Withnail and I thing but the most harrowing two days of my life occurred from 9am that Thursday till the Saturday effectively, involving lawyers and all sorts! Funnily enough we'd have a few people in common through a good friend of mine in the Academy who mentioned you out of the blue recently.

I know some of the lads involved in Electric Relaxation, the defunct Suck My Deck, WAR and some other bits and bobs. As I said, I've a funny feeling that next year could be the one!

electrogrimey

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Remind me what night you're running brother? I was planning to go to that Withnail and I thing but the most harrowing two days of my life occurred from 9am that Thursday till the Saturday effectively, involving lawyers and all sorts! Funnily enough we'd have a few people in common through a good friend of mine in the Academy who mentioned you out of the blue recently.

I know some of the lads involved in Electric Relaxation, the defunct Suck My Deck, WAR and some other bits and bobs. As I said, I've a funny feeling that next year could be the one!

It's a monthly Thursday in the Shaw, the Withnail & I night was kind of the start of it, but the next one (the 10th) will be much more defined as the night I want it to be. Hoping to get some good people in like maybe Shortie, Lorcan Mak, Louis from Colour TV, etc.

I've DJ'd with Electric Relaxation alright, and their sister night & in the Twisted Pepper.

Next year could be the one for what?

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

It's a monthly Thursday in the Shaw, the Withnail & I night was kind of the start of it, but the next one (the 10th) will be much more defined as the night I want it to be. Hoping to get some good people in like maybe Shortie, Lorcan Mak, Louis from Colour TV, etc

Met him before when I was flyering Harcourt St. with someone from the POD end and he was working down from the opposite end. Funny second name but lovely bloke.

Next year could be the one for what?

In terms of being a great great year. Spy closed down? Tonnes of people doing interesting things? Top notch!

(I've thrown you up on facebook there in case you're wondering who that was)

Piste

SteveDon wrote: »

I for one personally despise this scenester style fashion that in vogue electro music has brought to the dance music scene in general.

It makes me actually feel quite saddened that people are there for other reasons besides the music.

Cos God forbid somebody might go out to socialise, dance or have a few drinks.

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Therefore its this type of crowd which is the most ignorant towards music given that they, unlike your average joe in Quinns, go to places with the primary draw being the music and the belief that they're the 'in' crowd. If they were there to get drunk and act the eejit like the crowd in your typical club, id say fair enough. But its the falseness of it all which makes my blood boil - and being a student here in Dublin for 3 years and having no decent place for music to go to during weeknights is why i've bothered writing this. If there was a place that played half-decent music without a bull**** element, I doubt id have ever went to these clubnights in the first place. However, we covered that in a seperate thread months back



:rolleyes:

Oh

This reverts to my previous paragraph - no your average 'crew' they dont care about the music, they just care about one thing - alcohol. But to me, there's far less wrong with this than caring above all about your appearance and adhering to a sub-culture, thus thinking that you're different. How so I fail to understand.

That's an incredibly closed-minded view, people don't like the same music as you, so they're ignorant? You appear to think you have a remarkable insight into "scenesters" minds...but you avoid them...what makes you think they're as vapid and fickle as you say they are?

g5fd6ow0hseima

Piste wrote: »

That's an incredibly closed-minded view, people don't like the same music as you, so they're ignorant?

They're hipsters.

electrogrimey

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

They're hipsters.

Piste has you perfectly. You claim you know so much about them, claim you know why they go to clubs, but you don't. Extremely close minded, and a lot more ignorant than the hipsters you call ignorant.

jtsuited

how is this thread 12 pages long??

g5fd6ow0hseima

electrogrimey wrote: »

Piste has you perfectly. You claim you know so much about them, claim you know why they go to clubs, but you don't. Extremely close minded, and a lot more ignorant than the hipsters you call ignorant.

I claim I know so much about them? Im simply remarking that they're superficial and image conscious above all else. Im commenting on what I see in front of me with my own two eyes. I dont see commenting on vanity as close minded. Some of them could be brain surgeons, but they present themselves as tossers.

electrogrimey wrote: »

"You wonder if those people human". That's got nothing to do with fads, or being cool, that's just you not liking them for being different.

Were you joking here?

jimi_t2

jtsuited wrote: »

how is this thread 12 pages long??

College having finished for the summer and no one having jobs.

Piste

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

They're hipsters.

That's not an answer. How do you know they only go to the clubs to "be seen there"? In fact, how do you know anything about their attitudes by just looking at them? Fair enough if you don't like their clothes, but how can you know anything about them as people?

g5fd6ow0hseima

Piste wrote: »

That's not an answer. How do you know they only go to the clubs to "be seen there"? In fact, how do you know anything about their attitudes by just looking at them? Fair enough if you don't like their clothes, but how can you know anything about them as people?

Im simply remarking that they're superficial and image conscious above all else. Im commenting on what I see in front of me with my own two eyes. I dont see commenting on vanity as close minded. Some of them could be brain surgeons, but they present themselves as tossers.

I feel that clothes reveal a lot about a person, but no - not with hipsters. They're multi faceted, wonderful people the lot of them. They're also different, in a cooler kind of way.

Piste

Ok, people making an effort with their appearance can show that they're image-concious, I don't see anything wrong with that and I've no idea why you do. But how do you know they're superficial?

Piste

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

that vvip yoke made me cringe something horrid! You wonder are those people human

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Can humans be that fake and plastic?

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Then there's dressing like a gob****e. I dont seek to restrict the bloodflow to my testicles in order to loudly display that im somewhat 'different' (I use the word different as you claim hipsters to be different in an earlier post - something which beats me).



Notice how, for arguements sake, this nightclub in question c.u.n.t - clearly states on the pod.ie website 'no heavy dance tho' (hip spelling of though included). This demonstrates clearly to all that the majority of the crowd would reel in horror at the sound of some proper dubstep / drum n bass or techno. For example, you wont hear the word techno ever mentioned with these hipsters, maybe tech-house at best, because Techno is such a dirty word for the unaccustomed, but we all know that, we all know people who call any electronic music techno etc....

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

This reverts to my previous paragraph - no your average 'crew' they dont care about the music, they just care about one thing - alcohol. But to me, there's far less wrong with this than caring above all about your appearance and adhering to a sub-culture, thus thinking that you're different. How so I fail to understand.

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

I just dont like how Dublin's electronic music clubs are infested with pretentious folk thinking they're part of something special by copying the british indie fashion of two or three years ago.

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Some people wear hemp only clothing - that doesnt bother me. Some people like the idea of dressing up in leathers and chains, that doesnt bother me. Its the attitude of these hipsters which does. The idea of people listening to a certain type of music because its underground and hanging out in particular places because they think they're different to everybody else does annoy me. Not to mention the 'uniform' involved

See, in all those quotes you've made MASSIVE assumptions about people's attitudes to clubs. What makes you so qualified know exactly what people are thinking just by looking at them? How do you know they're trying to be "different", how do you know they don't like music (or what you've decided is good music)?

g5fd6ow0hseima

Piste wrote: »

See, in all those quotes you've made MASSIVE assumptions about people's attitudes to clubs. What makes you so qualified know exactly what people are thinking just by looking at them? How do you know they're trying to be "different", how do you know they don't like music (or what you've decided is good music)?

Of course they do like music... blondie t-shirts are all the rage man!

With someones image, a certain stereotype will be attached. You see someone in adidas trakkies, and you'll put them into a certain social category, likewise, if you see a krusty, one might put them into a 'treehugger' category. With hipters, I think of pitchfork, converse runners, checkard shirts, the latest patrick wolf album and an obsession with Karen O from the yeah yeah yeahs.

I guess I should go beyond their uniform individuality in the future.

jimi_t2

Piste wrote: »

See, in all those quotes you've made MASSIVE assumptions about people's attitudes to clubs. What makes you so qualified know exactly what people are thinking just by looking at them? How do you know they're trying to be "different", how do you know they don't like music (or what you've decided is good music)?

Seriously mate, I'd advise you to take a look around the forum and even read a few pages back into the thread. I could confidently say that 99% of the people who post here anyway regularly are far far more qualified to talk about people's attitudes to clubs than your fine self and you're not going to find many people to defend your viewpoint here.

Call it an assumption if you want, but you're clearly on some one man crusade and if continue on in this vein the thread will either be locked or you're just going to get trolled into oblivion. I knew once what it was to be post-leaving cert and righteously indignant

Piste

Why are the people here more qualified to talk about people's attitude's to clubs? Because they can mouth off about more stereotypes than I can?

Piste

Zackary Fit Warehouse wrote: »

Of course they do like music... blondie t-shirts are all the rage man!

With someones image, a certain stereotype will be attached. You see someone in adidas trakkies, and you'll put them into a certain social category, likewise, if you see a krusty, one might put them into a 'treehugger' category. With hipters, I think of pitchfork, converse runners, checkard shirts, the latest patrick wolf album and an obsession with Karen O from the yeah yeah yeahs.

I guess I should go beyond their uniform individuality in the future.

So you know so much about these "hipsters" because of what other people have told you, or the general stereotype that surrounds them, rather than from first hand experience of them?